Anyone with knowledge about whether or not these PIAA horns might fit the ZX-14R, in the manner already presented in other threads, using the OEM horn placement up-under?

http://www.piaa.com/powersports-lamps/ps-accessories.html

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I don't now if the Piaa's fit. I put Hella Supertones on mine and they work great !!!

Hella Supertones

* Last updated by: GunSurgeon on 6/10/2012 @ 7:47 PM *

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I saw the WebBikeWorld report on the Hella Supertones and thought I'd like to do that, too.

But, then I believe I read another thread posted on this site that the Hella's "type" were large enough to contact the front fender when riding aggressively. They would not contact when riding "around town", but if the front fork shocks compressed fully, or near fully, you wind up with a ding in the fender.

So, I'm still interested in your installation, but I have a couple follow on questions for ya.

Do you think they will contact the fender if you compress the front suspension on your bike?

Do you have them mounted using the two existing OEM horn mount bolt holes? (I assume - one horn per bolt hole, and removal of the "wishbone" mount bracket). If not, then how did you make them fit?

I asked about the PIAAs because I was hoping someone could tell me they're smaller than the Hella's and made them "fit", without modding / cutting the baffling in that area...

Thanks...

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Hey GunSurgeon, I'm interested in your hella horns installation, and I'm asking for a favor.

Would you please take a look at the thread above, and let me know?

Thanks very much.

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Hi Grn14:

Thanks for the words about the installation. Much appreciated, really.

WebBikeWorld did a comparo here:
http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-horns/motorcycle-horn-comparison.htm

...and liked the Hella's for "loudness", from a measured data perspective. That is, they measured to be loudest.

They did sample and test of a set of FIAMMs too, not sure if they're the same one's you bolted up.

<rant mode on>
I wish two things:
That the motorcycle manufacturers would quit treating (what I consider to be important) safety equipment as afterthought, and that the safety equipment makers would publish some meaningful data on dimensions, so bolting this stuff up would not be so much of a crapshoot.
<rant mode off>

I'm going with the Hella's, since I think I now have some info that leads me to believe that I can make them fit.

Thanks for your help, Grn.

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Am interested in getting some loud horns in the 14r too cause the stock unit does not cut it. Lowered 1 inch in the front so have fender contact concerns too..

Question.....do you have to use a new horn relay and wiring..or can you simply ground the horn and use the stock slip in plug wire to make the horns work?

Ideas on cost of the horns?

NW

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Ninja:

There's already a bunch of thread topic on the question you posted. Search on "horn", and most of it will appaer in the search results.

Short answer is: it depends on the horn you select to install. Some require more DC current than others, and need a relay to prevent an electrical meltdown of the OEM horn circuit (I'm a 40 year career electrical tech type).

Best regards,
Bob

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GRN 14,

Is there any way you could please post a pic of the horns attached to the brackets on your bike? Clearance is the only thing I am concerned with in hitting the top of the fender upon full compression....

Did you use the furnished relay or just plug and play the stock wires?

thanks,

NJW

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NinjaWarrior1244:

So, I bought the Hella Supertones (dual horn) kit, and got to the installation today.

Here's my results. I looked carefully at Grn14's installation pics, and compared to what I had in front of me. Then, I looked at the electrical specs and noticed that the two horns together pull (66W x 2) = 132W total @ 12 VDC. That's over 11 Amps of current, for both. I exanined the installed horn circuit wiring that goes to the horn switch. No way was I gonna rate that, or the switch, at 11 amps. They would probably be fine for awhile, but I'm pretty sure arcing in the switch will quickly corrode it at those amp current pulls (and, it's not so much the "steady state" current, but the "make / break" inrush current that causes corrosion).

So, between that, and the mechanical clearances I was to encounter, Bottomline: One horn goes in...

Here's what I bought, contents of the kit. Note they include instructions to use the included relay...

Unbolt and remove the OEM Horn, and fit one Hella (I chose the 300 Hz). Note the absence of the plastic under-guard / air dam (more about that later):

Note the bend I made in the Hella mounting bracket. Pair of vice grips and a bit of leverage...

Check the clearances. At first, I left the the plastic under-guard / air dam in place and mounted the horn, and checked clearances. I measured (with tape measure, used at the horn / fender interface) about 2.75 inches, and also checked with my hand, and it was roughly a "firm fit" of my hand across my 2nd joints:

I bolted things up, and looked at it, and looked at it... and then decided 2.5" of clearance (quarter inch of "fudge" off of 2 and three-quarters inch) was not enough under hard braking to prevent the horn from hitting the front fender. Just not enough there.

So, I backed it all out, unbolted and removed the plastic under-guard (a tight fit to get out, but it did without removing anything else), and then bolted the horn back in. I got an extra 0.5 inch, at least. I felt better, thinking that 3"+ of clearance was probably "good to go"...

Then I checked the radiator guard clearance, and clearance to the bottom triple tree clamp (notice my install now precludes using a front tree lift without removing the horn). I wanted enough between both so that the horn edge would not hit the radiator guard, and enough so the horn rear would not vibrate against the triple tree clamp.

It worked. Here's what I got:

Then, I bent the horn's two terminals to "flatten" the fit, attached them to the horn, tightened all the mounting hardware up, and called it done.

I was unwilling to make the tigher clearances that two installed horns would have dictated, and my hat's off to Grn14 for making that work for himself. That, and the electrical load on the horn switch, just could not do it...

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...a short follow-on:

I though hard about what would be the effect of removing the plastic under-guard on cooling and debris.

The cooling issue: I ride, daily, in Tucson, in summer. It's 108 yesterday, proally 106 today. I am very aware of how much heat this motor produces. I monitor the coolant temp pretty closely when riding, hard or otherwise. I can see the plastic under-guard acts as an air dam to force air "down" into the radiator path, after being pushed "up" by the fender front. My .02 is that the turbulence generated by the front wheel will allow a low pressure zone to develop behind the front wheel, and pull cooling air into it (just behind the front wheel). That and the two fans behind the rad, and I think the cycle will be OK. But, I'll be watching that coolant temp...

Debris issue: Mostly eliminated by the fender. Good enough...

About the two .vs. one electrical issues: I could have pulled a bunch of fairing to expose a path the the battery, or I could have wired into the front headlight circuit for a +VDC to a relay, but I'm lazy. That would have been a lot of work (all that fairing!). Anyway, the lack of clearances / fit of two horns decided it for me...

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Mebgardner..

Thanks for the great pics and install info...

Question?? Can you remove the red circular horn guard and increase some fender clearances and will the horns work without that big red guard....it seems that it will work without it unless the guard holds the whole thing together.

Are the two horns marked for the 300Hz so you can easily see which one is loudest?

So, how does it sound compared to stock??

NJW

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Grn14:

You're input is always welcome, no hijack hi-jinks taken.

Ninja: I agree with Grn on the point of not removing the red horn guard for additional clearance. It appears to be pressed on and tack welded, probably will damage it. Yes, they're painly stamped with the emitted frequency, easy to se what's what.

How does it sound, compared to stock? Much louder, much more annoying. (Which, BTW, is one of the reasons I did not go with the FIAMM's.) Those sound almost... pleasant. (WebBikeWorld gives a sound clip for both). I wanted Annoying.

It's not as loud as a Stebel Nautilus (which I have on another cycle). I would have really desired to bolt up one of those, and Grn offered a "patch" solution, mounted to the plastic under-guard, that looked promising. But, I live at the end of a dirt road, and rocky bumpy. The install he showed us might have lasted me a week in there...

Oh well, I am satisfied with getting something other then the POS OEM thing.

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Mebgardner,

I may have found another location suitable for the other horn...on my 14r there is a large cavity in front of the instrument cluster under the leading edge of the lower windshield. There is a hold drilled and tapped that may be a perfect location to attach the mounting bracket too.

So, you could have both horns, but they would be about 8 inches apart...one down between the forks, and the other in forward cockpit area...

What do you think?

When you installed the horn relay, did you use the 4 wire harness or the 5 wire harness?

NJW

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NinjaWarrior:

I did not use a horn relay. One horn, on the existing wiring.

I considered that cavity you referred to, but the 2nd horn would have been for my ears only. There's no way to get the sound out of that cavity, save cutting a hole in the plastic under-guard, and I've already alked about that.

If I was going to cut that, I would have bought a Stebel horn and installed it instead. A much louder horn, by far...

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Sorry to butt in but I fitted a stebel on my 2010ZX1400 and was really good for waking up Cagers, it was funny they actually jumped when I gave them a blast, it was in the same area as ninjawarrior1244 is talking about and didn,t bother me at all

* Last updated by: bean07 on 6/30/2012 @ 11:25 PM *

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Thanks for the picture, Bean07.

I have no issue with you "butting in", and I'm grateful to learn from your experience. This would be a worthwhile upgrade for anyone considering a louder horn.

From the picture, it looks like you've removed the plastic under-guard? Do I have that correct? Or, the 2010 has a different method of routing air around in there... That is, the 2012 14R that I have in view has two plastic air "dams" in this area: One mounted to the forward fairing (it's position is "fixed", does not move), and another plastic peice attached to the steering head / triple tree (it's position rotates in an arc, very close to the front of the radiator).

Both of them block / prevent dusty air and debris from coming up into the rider's face, and "funnel" the air to / through the radiator. They also prevent the horn installation you're talking about, unless one want to cut them, or remove them altogether. Otherwise, the sound will stay inside that cavity, and radiate up into my ears. That dont't work for me...

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From the picture, it looks like you've removed the plastic under-guard?

the gaurd was only off to use the center bolt for the horn bracket (small flat bent into a angle) then was re-fitted after the photo,I took it off my 2010ZX1400 & when I have a spare 15 minutes it will be going on my 2012 ZX14 as the wires from stock fit straight on!

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Bean07: That Stebel requires a bunch of current to make the noise it does. It's actually much more than the "steady state" current the manufacturer publishes for it. That is, when you push the horn button to "make" the curcuit, there is a "surge" that occurs due to the electro-magnetics. The surge is sometimes called inrush current (mostly by the semiconductor mfgrs, is where the term generally comes from).

Anyway, the short of it is, this surge is many more times than the rating of the horn circuit wiring, and many more times the rating of the horn switch (which is the "weak link" in this curcuit).

I know you're likely to not use it much (BTW, mine saved my life last week, really), but I strongly urge you to consider using a relay in the series circuit that supplies the horn directly, and control the relay with the horn switch wiring. It will be much more efficient (louder, not light dimming), and will be bomb-proof reliable.

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Bean07:

Anyway, I take your point: It fits where NinjaWarrior says it will, and the position of the horn will work for you (even all baffled up, with plastic surrounds). I'm glad for you, really.

This is my opinion, here it is: The Stebel will be louder than the one Hella horn I've mounted, no question. But, relatively speaking, the Hella is positioned to be more efficient at getting it's noise out of the chassis. The sound pressure goes down the front of the radiator and deflects sideways by the fender. The Stebel, on the other hand, in the position you've selected, will be surrounded by plastic and metal, and radiate within a cavity (the area behind the front lighting), and the cavity may or may not resonate (which if it did, would cause the result to sound much louder than expected). Does the sound "get out"? Apparently, it does work on a 2010, and I suspect you'll get good results from the 2012 mounting too.

Let us know, and stay in touch, I'm grateful to learn from your experience.

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I know you're likely to not use it much (BTW, mine saved my life last week, really), but I strongly urge you to consider using a relay in the series circuit that supplies the horn directly, and control the relay with the horn switch wiring. It will be much more efficient (louder, not light dimming), and will be bomb-proof reliable.

fair enough and thanks for the good advice on using a relay I was unsure before to know if I had to use one ,so now I will,

. Does the sound "get out"?

it certainly did it made a driver of a large 4wd (windows shut) jump in his seat I could hear his music too & a female in her car ( on a mobile) nearly took all of my lane but when a blasted the horn it looked so funny she nearly pissed her dacks my wife ticked me off when I first tried it she was in the rear of our large house, three rooms from the garage & said it was to load.

* Last updated by: bean07 on 7/2/2012 @ 12:37 AM *

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The reason I mentioned behind the speedo for a mounting area is that you get a dual horn affect instead of the single tone you get if you mount only one between the forks..two is always better than one horn.....I know the horn is somewhat restricted in tone sound over the one between the forks, but more is better even if it is not mounted in the airstream.

So, anything of a dual horn system is better than any single unit if you have the room.

NW

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