There are several indications that Harley is losing ground fast.

1. This article. Interesting that they haven't lost their "attitude".
2. The sportbike-to-Harley ratio seems to have increased dramatically.
3. I'm seeing lots of motorcycles for sale right now, and many/most of them seem to be Harleys.

Anybody else noticing these trends? -bg

* Last updated by: bgordon on 3/28/2009 @ 7:53 PM *

We have been discussing this at work. It seems the people who bought a Harley as a status symbol are also in the group who financed their houses 100% and are in the news everyday. Their bikes are all over e bay.

I can't say that I have much sympathy for the company or its riders who are too good to wave as we pass on the open road. Why any company that has to have a design team from another country design their only modern water cooled model looks down their nose at import bike riders is beyond me. I think it is about time they produce something that is comparable to our bikes in quality, durability and price or die off.

Can you imagine ALL those Harley riders switching to Sport bikes or Japanese cruisers?OMG.The lucky one's of us got out early-moved on to better things(14's and such!)I can't even imagine riding a Harley(having owned 2 at different times).What was I thinking?!

Why any company that has to have a design team from another country design their only modern water cooled model looks down their nose at import bike riders is beyond me.

hahahahah, too freakin' right.

Arizona Bike Week is in full swing now and amazingly enough the best sounds my wife and I heard were three sportbikes, one after the other, taking off from a stop light and obviously with aftermarket exhaust. My wife commented that it sounded like a race track but when some leather vested, bandana headed middle agers road by on their Harleys she said "rocket ships to steam engines" which I though was fairly pithy comment. Which brings up the question, how long can Harley keep making the same machine over and over?

she said "rocket ships to steam engines"

I think the reason there's twice as many Harleys on Ebay is because there's twice as many Harleys as anything else out there.

When I started riding, Harleys were not in the majority and, in fact, were kind of unique but now they are as common as dirt. Great for the company but rather boring on the road and buying into the "family" thing is pure bs.
I see by BG's article that the avg. age of a Harley rider is 49 which is great but maybe they should stop trying to look like a 20 something "bad boy or girl" and ride something that really will give them a thrill--------ZX14!

The harley is a classic, not my style, but an icon for the USA. I don't see harleys every going down.
Gumbybob has the right idea:

I think the reason there's twice as many Harleys on Ebay is because there's twice as many Harleys as anything else out there.

It is the same over here guys...Fair weather riders, who do not have the courtesy to acknowledge you on "an import"??? What's that all about??? Every bike and in fact vehicle in this country is "imported??" Anyhow...they are struggling here too.....

I went to lunch yesterday with my IT manager, another Harley guy. He told me he's looking at a $26,000 Fat Boy. When I told him I payed just under $30,000 for all three of my bikes, out the door, with aftermarket mods he countered with, "Yea, but they ain't Harleys". I've decided resistance is futile! Oh yea, he made me laugh when he said he followed a ZX-14 in to work the other morning that was doing 110 on the freeway. Two things came to mind, if the story was true, the ZX-14 rider was still in second gear and didn't even know he was back there and secondly I'm surprised the Hog didn't blow a head gasket! I love to catch the helmetless bearded ones on their Harley's at a stoplight. I'll pull up next to a pack of 'em at the light and just nod. Inevitably, they will all pull away from the light at full throttle in a cloud of smoke and racket as I soft pedal just off the rear. When they hit about 80 I go around 'em like they'd dropped anchor. It's just too much fun when you blow by about 40 mph faster, still accelerating hard as they get really small in your rear view mirror. They never learn, it's part of their genetic makeup.

Kruz

When I started riding, Harleys were not in the majority and, in fact, were kind of unique but now they are as common as dirt

Actually more common than most types of dirt. I went off on this very subject on the old forum, it is simply a herd mentality, one goes and then the rest follow suit kinda like a pack of lemmings going over a cliff. I find the whole thing rather amusing, especially the claim that they're all individualists. I have never seen a group of people that had less individualty than these guys with their identical HD bandanas, HD leather vests, HD wallet chains, HD boots, gloves, t-shirts,watches, coffee mugs and so on ad-infinitum.

Kruz

It is the same over here guys...Fair weather riders, who do not have the courtesy to acknowledge you on "an import"??? What's that all about??? Every bike and in fact vehicle in this country is "imported??" Anyhow...they are struggling here too.....

I see way more Hardleys riding through the winter around here than I do imports.
But there are way more of them!!!!.... and I think the cold air keeps them from overheating.

There's one Harly rider, out my way, that has always given the 14 . First time he saw my zx14, as I walk in the door of the feedstore he works at, he says, "zx14... fastest production made... badazz machine, brother!"
Now he's always waitin' for me wonderin' what I've done to it since the last time he saw it. Says he can hear me comin' two miles out. Apparently he's also got a Buell and rides with a group. Gonna have to show 'em my taillight atleast once this year.

Oh back on subject, Harley is gonna feel the pinch, just like everyone else. Hopefully it only encourages them to develop better bikes.
It would be great to see an american made machine, smokin' Japs and Ducs?!

* Last updated by: DogoZX on 4/1/2009 @ 6:16 PM *

Dogo wrote:

It would be great to see an american made machine, smokin' Japs and Ducs?!

Kruz

Found some more bad news for Harley

Harley-Davidson Inc. will cut an additional 1,000 jobs after profit plunged 91% in the second quarter from the previous-year period, the company said July 16.

The layoffs are in addition to a previous workforce reduction of approximately 1,500 employees earlier in the year. Included in the layoffs are about 300 salaried positions. Net income for the quarter totaled $19.8 million, compared with $222.8 million in the year-earlier period. Worldwide retail unit sales of new Harley-Davidson motorcycles were down 30.1%.

Retail new Harley-Davidson motorcycle sales in the United States fell 35.1% and declined 18.2% in international markets compared with last year's second quarter. Industrywide retail sales of heavyweight motorcycles in the United States declined 48.1% for the same period.

"While the underlying fundamentals of the Harley-Davidson brand remain strong and our dealers' retail motorcycle sales declined less than our competitors, it is obviously a very tough environment for us right now, given the continued weak consumer spending in the overall economy for discretionary purchases," said Harley-Davidson, Inc. President and CEO Keith Wandell.

Looks like they're going down fast...

I'm surprised that they're still profitable. The immense "culture" they created has given them quite a bit of momentum, I suppose. -bg

As much as a lot of us rag on Hardlys, I would really hate to see them go. Just did a job at the Harley Davidson Museum in Milwaukee yesterday.

If your standard Harley guys start riding Japanese bikes, the death rate will go through the roof! Those guys can barely handle 75 horsepower Harleys! It won't be pretty!

I don't think there's any chance of that!-Unfortunately,ANOTHER guy got killed up here-NO HELMET-Harley Davidson bike,failed to negotiate a curve.Sorry to hear such things-but the Harley guys(and gals)are the one's losing their lives here.Haven't read about ONE sportbiker dying.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 7/20/2009 @ 12:46 PM *

Its been a lot of the same here in the mid-Atlantic also blue 07! We live about 20 minutes from one of the most popular vacation spots in the country[ Ocean city MD,] and the last meeting of one of the bike groups i tune for lost three of their people in one night a month ago. One was a husband & wife both killed instantly on one bike when the rider ran the turn and went down into the woods a 09 fatbob. The 2nd accident later that evening involved a 08 fatboy hit a gaurd rail when the rider was giving a friend a ride who was to drunk to drive,and just lost control going down a major hwy-90 no turns nothing. The rider was dead on scene and the friend is alive but barely last i heard. I didn't know either personnel y as there is 800 members in the east coast chapter but at this rate not for much longer.............Bill

Yeah,I don't understand why either.I have this mantra that I remember quite often while riding"push left,go left"-"push right,go right"-I know the "automatic"reaction is exactly that after you've ridden for a while-but sometimes getting into a curve and having the bike drift or something like that,it's easy(for me anyways)to "forget"(well,maybe not forget,but not realize) that I can follow that "instruction" as much as I want in the turn.So lately,I've been practicing consciously while entering a curve(usually OVER the posted speed),"you want more lean,push right(or left).She'll roll in for ya,just keep pushin".

I think you just explained a lot of it blue07. WE meaning sport type riders are paying more attention to the bike/road and use this att; for improving our skills. This input either gets lost by some HD riders or not thought of period. Its really scary to talk to some of these guys when this subject is brought up because i get the same mind set[IM NOT GOING TO RIDE THAT FAST TO NEED TO LEARN TO RIDE AROUND CURVES] WTF! I don't mean all riders because i know some of us here ride cruisers,but i bet not one of us think this way no matter what we happen to be riding. Like i said its scary..................Bill

One thing I don't understand AT ALL-HOW does a guy LOSE CONTROL after he's passed a vehicle,and is entering back into the lane?I mean,I realize that there can be gravel in the center line(I've hit it before-ON THE THROTTLE)so yeah,a tad bit of skip I can see,Or perhaps a bit slipping on the painted line(it should be BROKEN if yer passing someone,at least enough to cross over them with minimal contact).But what kind of steering is going on to cause a bike at say, 700+ pounds(Harleys)to tweak so badly that they'd lose it with a simple,low input maneuver(I don't know-maybe it's more complicated to pass than I experience?).You know they're PROBABLY not going THAT fast(70,80)-probably not near as powered up(with the torque and hp)that we have when passing.So I don't get it.SEVERAL have died here doing just that-returning to their lane after passing.??????????????? And I've done the SCRAPE THE HARD PARTS deal when I did have a Harley-yeah,I could see an easy loss of control doing that(I got lucky,that's for sure).But I'm certainly not immune to having a crash-that's for sure.Just the other day I went to pass this semi,he was rollin at about 35 mph,I'm wantin to get ahead of him cause I know there's NO place to pass him up ahead once we get on the two way traffic part of the road,And there's GOBS of nice twisties and sweepers up ahead on that two way road.The posted limit sign of 70 mph just went by.On my left,there's a painted surface-yellow diagonal stripes indicating a"meridian".(you know-"do not cross into").Well-I'm not gonna get stuck behind him-so..........I hit my blinker,do my head check-all clear.Yep,downshift twice,gas it.Hit those painted lines.My bike's doin the herky jerky as I pass that guy.For a second there,I was confused about what the heck that was.It was pretty pronounced.Then it hit me-she was spinnin the rear tire.No fear of control loss-but it woke me up to the fact that even something as subtle as those lines there-seemingly harmless-COULD have had a serious effect had things been different.Gassing it over painted lines is just askin for trouble IMO.Even in the dry.Normally I gas it and keep a constant speed over the center line-gravel in the center here is quite common.But it made me think about what I was doin there and WHY I was in that situation to begin with,ya know?

* Last updated by: blue07 on 7/20/2009 @ 11:06 PM *

Harley Davidson bikes have become the Icon of cult acceptance! The appeal is so great, that millions of middle aged people have found it as a way to relive their youth, and to be the rebel they never were.
With that said, you end up with millions of people that have never rode a bike, riding at age 50 plus. Now, some people even at that age are naturals and can adequately control a bike. But there are some that should never be on two wheels, but they ride for the sole purpose of being accepted by their friends.
Well, that is going to get you a lot of strange wrecks that good riders like ourselves, will never understand. I saw two people in their sixties at a Harley shop one day. They rode their Gold Wing trike in, and picked up a new Ultra Classic. The deal was already done, so they just got the standard this does that, and that does this orientation by the Service Manager, they climbed on, started up, pulled out to the street, and promptly fell over! He forgot to put his feet down, buahahahaha!
Point is, 20 years ago, I do not remember too many people riding that was over 40 years old, and even the ones in their 40's, had been riding since their teens. Harley has capitalized on the younger crowd that wants to be cool, and the older crowd, that tries to be cool. And with that, you get lot's of inexperienced riders that will wreck on a straight road. I have seen new Harley riders pull into the left turn lane, and were wobbling like a four year old learning to ride a bicycle...........scary! It is so funny but still, I hate to see all those people get hurt.
I have two Harleys, one belonged to a friend of mine, that died suddenly in a car wreck. I bought it because it was his pride and joy, and he wanted me to have it. Then I bought my 08 Ultra Classic. I never ride the Fatboy, and the only time I ride the Ultra, is when I want to take a roadtrip, or just take a split tail for a ride. But when I ride, I do not wear assless chaps, finger gloves, and all of the standard I wanna be cool clothing that most of those chumps wear. I am simply into riding, simple as that! All other times, I ride nothing but my 14 because it does everything better than a Harley, except long road trips.
I think Harleys are classic well built machines, that are pretty darned dependable, and I respect them for that. It is the people that ride them that cracks me up.
I ride up to a IHOP on morning to meet some of my friends that ride Harleys. And believe me these are hard core bikers, not your wanna be's. This guy was sitting next to me on his brand new sportster. It was so shiny that it almost blinded me. I was on my Fatboy for once, and it was dirty as hell. This guy was looking at himself in the glass, tipping his head from side to side, and basically admiring himself as gods gift to the cool world! I was wondering if he even knew I was there. Well after 10 minutes of self admiration, he finally looked over and said, " nice bike man " but it sure is dirty. You really need to clean your bike man!
I dont know why, but that really pissed me off. I said, well I have been sitting here watching you comb your hair, and admire yourself in the window, so it is apparent to me that you dont have a clue what riding is all about. I said my bike is dirty from riding in the rain a couple of days ago, then riding to Southern Ohio and back yeasterday, and at least it has been rode. It is dirty, but has covered a thousand miles in the last week, so F*ck you pretty boy.
Right then all my knarley friends rode in and parked all around us, and he couldn't leave fast enough. What a puss!
Typical Harley newb!