I have no interest in dynoing my bike. Think about all the points being made here. You got Grn mainly telling us about the heavy hand throttle response on the low end and a video where he's twisting the throttle a around 30-40% with the flashed ECU and around 20% with the stock ECU! He's pops it 3 times with the Cblast ECU, twice with the stock.

Now, remember one of Cblast big selling points, his "smoothing". Does all that actually completely contradict that claim of smoothing out the throttle response?

Here's the thing, as I'm working through this I'm seeing more and more of a flim-flam man than a tuner. Using whimsical terms in which he has no real idea wtf he's talking about. It's what Hubs been saying for a while, others have basically dropped huge hints at, and I'm starting to see it too. CBlast gaurantee's if you don't like his flash he will return the ECU back to the original state. This is IMPOSSIBLE with the software he's using.

Someone else PM'd me and offered to send me their CBlast ECU. Here's the thing, let's say I test it and the results are hte same. It'll just be more of the same shit people will be like "well now we need to send a 3rd ECU..and have Vic's bike dynoed at 4 different places on every 3rd full moon".

When magazines do a review do of a motorcycle do they use 4 bikes? No, they get one, they review it, and that's it. I don't have much interest in handling other people's property especially with something like ECUs. Basically think of it as someone loaning me their motorcycle...no thanks.

My suggestion is for someone else to replicate my test and see. Different bike, different rider, etc. Overall my guess is on the dyno it would see gains however that these gains aren't enough, and due to lack of tuning for ram-air, result in no net affect on acceleration.

* Last updated by: VicThing on 8/28/2015 @ 5:12 AM *

It's definitely flashed - the rev limiter is 11.5k, it retains the last TC setting (FOFF), and I can change TC and power modes while riding.

That sounds like a Ryan setup for $75?

So everything that I really wanted works except getting more power.

Ah, the 13.5a fueling map. The only way to tell is to either ride it with an AFR meter [I've got that] and/or download the map using the wooly software [got that too].

Only thing waiting is for you to send the ECU in a 2-3day priority mail envelope, I send it back the next day. I can downloaded the files and see the fueling map, ride the bike with PAIR disabled so you can see where the needle lands using the gopro to capture that AFR #. You are [temporarily] out of pocket for the priority mail, I send it back with 5 bucks in it, cost you nothing but time at the post office... you've got your answer as to where the power is [or not].

---

Me:

OK so maybe C didn't get rid of Vic's safety mode??

Vic:

Again here we go with more "what ifs". C posted PUBLICLY on this very forum that the flash was completely successful and he even tested it in a bike. Maybe C was lying?

My bad, Vic. This has been a long thread, hard to remember the details ... and hell I had been bleaching my roof for hours without a mask before that!!!

---

Vic

What I am curious about is the torque curve of the flash vs the stock ecu.

If the flash torque curve is not ~5% higher across the rpm range you performed the test, it would confirm your test results. If its about the same or marginally higher it would be additional data to back up your test.

I have no position in this debate, just curious if I drank the $400 Koolaid and still under the influence. I'm one that only has the butt dyno to go by and we know what that's worth.

---

I'm one that only has the butt dyno to go by and we know what that's worth.

Well, Grn thinks it's worth a LOT! Maybe even all ya need ... well, that & some throttle blips

Grn, I'll buy the beers if we're ever in the same place, bud

And don't mind me if I seem to be staring at your BUTT ... but, man I have GOT to see what makes that thing so special that you can measure HP, torque AND speed with it

---

According to some...measurements are useless as well....So I reckon we just have Vic's professional test video to rely on...hey...sa'll good with me.You win...

BTW...I just returned from my top speed H2 run...gps'd at 195 @14.2.4-5 mph headwind.Should I dump the GPS?It feels faster than 195.

Only thing waiting is for you to send the ECU in a 2-3day priority mail envelope, I send it back the next day. I can downloaded the files and see the fueling map, ride the bike with PAIR disabled so you can see where the needle lands using the gopro to capture that AFR #. You are [temporarily] out of pocket for the priority mail, I send it back with 5 bucks in it, cost you nothing but time at the post office... you've got your answer as to where the power is [or not].

Here's the thing Hub. I really trust you well enough to do this testing you're speaking of. But what about the naysayers who will insist you're biased?

IF PEOPLE HERE AGREE THAT YOU PERFORMING TESTING IS FAIR AND VALID, INCLUDING GRN, I'LL SEND THE CBLASTED ECU TO YOU. But people have to agree BEFOREHAND that you're testing will be considered fair and valid NO MATTER WHAT THE RESULTS ARE.

I'm not in this...my inputs are NOT reliable.Besides..I already suggested a gearing change for Extrap...I think he'd enjoy that just a well.He wants'faster'...well...this'll get him there...'faster'.Without paying such and such for a flash.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 8/28/2015 @ 5:06 PM *

Great!!

Hub is going to test the flash. More Data the better.

---

Nope, Grn chimed in that he won't believe whatever Hub finds. So that's it. Not any possibility. It would have to be unanimous including Grn that he'd accept the results as final and valid.

I figured as much though. Some people can tell shit from shinola and some people don't want to.

I'm 100% in favor of this

---

But what about the naysayers who will insist you're biased?

Thanks for the confidence, Vic. The thing is, I don't trust the PO so run a tracker on it, I do the same with the return envelope. As far as the naysayers, I don't think I'll have any. Here's why...

IF PEOPLE HERE AGREE THAT YOU PERFORMING TESTING IS FAIR AND VALID, INCLUDING GRN, I'LL SEND THE CBLASTED ECU TO YOU.

... All I can offer is the AFR change from stock. You have the others worked out as far as the list of rpm/toggle on the fly/etc.

But people have to agree BEFOREHAND that you're testing will be considered fair and valid NO MATTER WHAT THE RESULTS ARE.

They need to agree that all I'm going to video are the AFR differences [if any] and very little exposure of the 13.5a or whatever map. If the cell numbers are not matching the OE, I'll zoom in and edit a few cells so you only view a few cells, but you'll see the full OE bin map so you can compare... if this either/or map is, or it's just a toggle full of bells, but the whistle was left out.

Or, if you think about it, I don't need to download the ECU, because the AFR is going to point the way. Seat of the pants will be more of that: 'tone I know' kind of assfactor. I'm hardly out riding without taking an advantage; trying a test of some kind. With all the hacking of the bike, throwing AFR numbers at it with the pigs, etc., I think I can tell if something has changed.

I'm not going to have it dyno'd. All I have to do is see the AFR switch from OE to 13.5a or anyplace away from its stock 14.1a [is the number I am familiar with]. And if I can't feel a difference... is only days away.

So BEFOREHAND, we need to agree this is nothing more than an AFR expedition, no bias needed.

We in?

---

"Nope, Grn chimed in that he won't believe whatever Hub finds"...LOL...you ARE a troll with a zx.Talk about 'facts' and "proof"...here's a chance to shine .SHOW ME and all here where I said I wouldn't believe Hub's testing.

If you can do that....I'll never post here again....TRUTH.FACT.I'm waiting.

And if you CAN'T...then NOTHING you have to say has any integrity.Including yer test.

No getting off the hook with..."I don't need to show you nuthin"...this aint yer driveway.Public property here bud.

Don't even THINK you're gonna use me to get out of this deal.This is ALL on you.GLWTS.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 8/28/2015 @ 11:07 PM *

"Nope, Grn chimed in that he won't believe whatever Hub finds"...LOL...you ARE a troll with a zx.Talk about 'facts' and "proof"...here's a chance to shine .SHOW ME and all here where I said I wouldn't believe Hub's testing.

If you can do that....I'll never post here again....TRUTH.FACT.I'm waiting.

And if you CAN'T...then NOTHING you have to say has any integrity.Including yer test.

No getting off the hook with..."I don't need to show you nuthin"...this aint yer driveway.Public property here bud.

Don't even THINK you're gonna use me to get out of this deal.This is ALL on you.GLWTS.

You said "I'm not in this". WTF does that mean to you?

Thank god...finally rid of this fucking retard that had to be told about late apex turning when it's even in the damn MSF BRC manual.

* Last updated by: VicThing on 8/29/2015 @ 2:25 AM *

Grn; I believe your butt dyno. The bike has a quicker response, smoother power delivery, more grunt down low, but this doesn't translate to faster which is what this whole debate is about. Roman's flash gave me all that for my gen 1 (for a lot less $$$) and I'm happy too. However, I am not saying it's faster because I don't know. You have a cam, gps, flashed/oem ECUs, a road to ride, a zx14r, and the balls to ride fast (195 on the H2). Why aren't you testing it yourself and posting a vid? I trust you. Go for it!

---

Grn; I believe your butt dyno. The bike has a quicker response, smoother power delivery, more grunt down low, but this doesn't translate to faster which is what this whole debate is about. Roman's flash gave me all that for my gen 1 (for a lot less $$$) and I'm happy too. However, I am not saying it's faster because I don't know. You have a cam, gps, flashed/oem ECUs, a road to ride, a zx14r, and the balls to ride fast (195 on the H2). Why aren't you testing it yourself and posting a vid? I trust you. Go for it!

Be very careful who you encourage to do testing. For oen thing, how the test is conducted is key, and Grn's testing for his throttle blip stuff had a lot of highly questionable parameters. His results could only be considered if he conducted the testing in a very similar manner in which I conducted mine. More science less...garbage. If it's not done right and methodically then the results will be a waste.

I don't see the same things some of you see in Grn's video. If I saw the way that he blipped the throttle the same for the stock ECU and the Cblast ECU I'd say so. I don't see it. I see inputs which vary so significantly it gave the Cblast ECU a specific advantage in proving what Grn was supporing. I see differences in the amount of throttle. I see differences in the RPM on the tachometer he's revving too, I see differences in the number of times he blips the throttle, and lastly I see differences in him pulling back on the bars with the CBlast ECU to try to make it wheelie.

"I'm not in this". WTF does that mean to you?"...it means..asshat..I'M NOT IN THIS...NOT that I don't believe HUB'S results....TROLL.

Go look up 'internet troll'.

"and lastly I see differences in him pulling back on the bars with the CBlast ECU to try to make it wheelie"...WOW..you can see all that huh?.Do tell.You missed the finger in the air for you jerk.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 8/29/2015 @ 6:28 AM *

I'd love to log in to this thread & find out that Grn sent his flashed ECU to Vic, that Vic used it to repeat his OEM vs flashed test, and that either 1) Grn's flashed ECU is indeed faster than Vic's OEM ECU, so something must be wrong with Vic's flashed ECU, or 2) the results were the same as the first test = no faster.

---

Look..my results don't mean shit..okay?My bike feels quicker.That's all I can say..all I have said.The throttle feels snappier.I don't intend to ship my ecu to anyone.If I did...it sure wouldn't be Vic..tell ya that.He'll have to figure out his OWN problem.Like a big boy.

If ya want a visceral experience with 'thrust'..go with that gearing change.It's the cheapest for sure.Your bike WILL be quicker.Not sayin here that the flash doesn't do that as well...but you might enjoy the gearing deal just for fun.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 8/29/2015 @ 7:46 AM *

I'd love to log in to this thread & find out that Grn sent his flashed ECU to Vic, that Vic used it to repeat his OEM vs flashed test, and that either 1) Grn's flashed ECU is indeed faster than Vic's OEM ECU, so something must be wrong with Vic's flashed ECU, or 2) the results were the same as the first test = no faster.

First off someone geographically close to me offered to send me their Cblasted ECU. I'm not interested for the following reasons:
- potential liability of handling other people's property. If the ECU fails while testing, or something happens I'm not going to be responsible for it. Also, I'm not interested in dealing with the potential of the ECU failing at some point in the future upon returning and being questioned about it.
- no control over the ECU itself - I have no idea what may have been done to someone's ECU or where it came from. Yes, there is a general level of trust on the forum but we are talking about things that have real value in terms of affecting financial aspects of business's and lives.
- I wouldn't even be willing to accept a revision from CBlast himself. A person who has interest in forcing the numbers to be on their side could manipulate the map of a specific ECU. This in turn could potentially lead to engine damage or other issues.

In any professional review environment these are all factors (and more) which are accounted for. For example, a magazine get's a product to review and often times these products are hand picked as the best examples or other manipulations occur which affect the review.

There is no reason at all to suspect my CBlasted ECU isn't a perfect copy of the CBlast flash. The ONLY REASON people suspect this is because their beliefs and feels are being proven wrong.

"- I wouldn't even be willing to accept a revision from CBlast himself"...."I have no interest in dynoing my bike"...."A person who has interest in forcing the numbers to be on their side could manipulate the map of a specific ECU"..."Nope, Grn chimed in that he won't believe whatever Hub finds. So that's it".

For someone searching for a valid black and white confirmation whether the bike's making more power...regardless of how it 'feels'...I don't think this 'reasoning' is gonna get you very far in your quest.You don't want REAL verification...you just want YOUR 'tests' to be accepted as FACT.Like everything else you throw around here.

"Should have got the ABBA stand Grn"....(mine is better than yours).Isn't that what these triflings are REALLY about?

You're as clear as glass...and just as fragile.I can see right through you;)

"Trolls aren't necessarily any more pleasant than haters, but their agenda is different – they don't just want to insult a particular person, they want to start a fight – hopefully one that has a broader application, and brings in more people than just the object of their original trolling. The term derives from a fishing technique – say your stupid thing, watch the world bite".

Now...test that smart guy.

Next time...follow the instructions...open her up...keep it pinned,and shift up with her pinned.Come back and tell us all how THAT feels.You CAN shift like that,right?

Perhaps try 3rd next time.Or 2nd.For a guy willing to hit an unarmed citizen with a crowbar over some words...these options ought to be child's play for you...tough guy.

P.S.

Don't forget to turn your TC 'off'...

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 8/29/2015 @ 10:20 AM *

Grn you talk all this shit yet you are not willing to state exactly what it would take for you to consider my test results validated. If I send my CBlasted ECU to Hub, he measures the AFR, sees a difference from stock, then YOU MUST BE MAN ENOUGH TO ACCEPT THAT YOU'RE "feeling" of the bike being faster is bullshit.

You're the bullshitter here Grn. You could validate my test results by performing your own testing. Again, stock ECU is RL is 11k, CBlasted ECU is 11.5k. If you're saying that the performance is in that last 500 rpm, then just get a $25 RL flash to 11.5k. Again Schnitz can do RL to 11.5k, TRC, and TSL. Heck they even adjust opening STPs for $75.

Face it Grn, you were duped into paying $400 for bullshit. For all you know, CBlast walked your ECU down to some person with a WRT setup and paid them $75 for that exact flash. Then you're dumbass got it back, somehow in your head heard the bike sound and feel different. You're the bullshitter, and worst of all, you're bullshitting yourself.

The only thing worse than bullshitting yourself is bullshitting others.

* Last updated by: VicThing on 8/29/2015 @ 4:59 PM *

"you are not willing to state exactly what it would take for you to consider my test results validated"...

Understand THIS....I don't care about your flash or tests.Grn this and Grn that.If Grn does this,if Grn does that.WTF do YOU care what I do or don't do regarding this whole deal here.You already stated your opinions of me.So chalk me up as a non-essential in this.

IMO...if you really think your flash is 'bullshit'..then dyno the thing before and after.If it were mine,I'd want to know.Something I could SEE.If it WASN'T making more power...then you'd have it right there in writing,for all to see.

Simple.Irrefutable.

This thing has turned into a Grn says this and that.How about bringing it back to Vic's 'this is something' topic.

The easiest,simplest and unarguable solution here is the DYNO.If it isn't making more(power)...then that's on you and C.You do want to know if you got scammed don't you?You 'verified' your thoughts by testing your way.Now get it down in black and white.If it matches your 'tests'(not faster/no change[in power])...then there ya are.If it shows a power increase from stock to flashed...then what?That's YOUR challenge then...what to do about your 'test' results.

There it is...remember...YOU opened this topic up.Others shared their experiences.You don't like some of em.That's fine.So get off yer bum and go and get it professionally tested.For YOU.Not for me or anyone else.

Think THAT's a BULLSHIT answer?

You want desperately(I guess) for some here to 'believe' in your test.IDK WHY you do.Who cares whether anyone 'believes' in Grn's opinion or observation.How have I become the focal point of YOUR issue?Because I voiced some opinions?

You haven't taken the options suggested.You keep blasting and blaming me for your situation."Grn doesn't believe".

Grn's a nobody.His opinion or whatever is smaller than flyshit.So move on...validate your findings with some actual reliable numbers.You want 'resolution'?Then there's you answer.Not whether I this or that.

My DYNO sheets are here somewhere.Before and after on the same morning.Whether it was 'faster' or not...it did have MORE power.That verifies my 'butt' dyno.So how about YOU.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 8/29/2015 @ 7:45 PM *

Dyno doesn't mean shit! Who cares if it dynos showing 8 more peak hp! That's what you don't get you dumbass!

Typical.At least you're consistent.

"Who cares if it dynos showing 8 more peak hp!"...fail...you said you were TRYING to replicate a dyno run...that's why you chose 4th to do these in.Well...for someone who touts a dyno is meaningless...why the hell try and replicate one then...get yer BS straight,okay?

How about 3rd gear...start @ 4K...go to redline.Measure time to get there as opposed to 'stock'...how about that?That doesn't cost you anything.Or 2nd.I think yer scared she'll get away from ya...that's what I think.Have you even tried that?Stock vs flashed in 2nd gear 4K to redline blast.No..you haven't.

And turn your KTRC OFF.Any interference from that is gonna cause an unfair speed reading.It doesn't HAVE to be sputtering and all to be interfering.

Doing these 'tests' in 2nd or 3rd just may show you there's MORE performance in there than you currently think there is.Stock OR flashed.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 8/29/2015 @ 9:15 PM *