Green, my last comments on the subject...

You worship an entity that has never been seen, heard or touched, but is simply passed on from generation to generation.
And whom you worship directly depends on where in the world you are born.
So whether you gain eternal life in Heaven or languish in Hell is directly related to your origin and the God you are taught to worship?
Consistency is certainly not applicable here and down the track someone is certainly going to be disappointed.

Did you know you are an atheist? Yes you believe in one particular God, but not in the other 99.5% because that's against the rules right?

And two words that are cancer to any religion.
"Prove it".
And please don't ask me to disprove it.
It is a ridiculous turn around cop out concept.

Believers also dedicate their lives to a book where the stories are inconsistent, unlikely and some down right ridiculous.
But the best part is the actual author is unknown.
The Holy Bible
Written by ?????
"Don't know who wrote it but hey, I'm quoting this scripture and that scripture and you'd better believe it".
So much for credibility.
One thing we do know is the book was not written by God, but by the hand of man supposedly on behalf of God.
And we already know the inherent unreliability of man.
Remember Joseph Smith from the Mormons? He did the same thing and wasn't that an extremely credible exercise!
Want proof the book is flawed regardless of mans hand or not?
Take Noah's Ark.
If you believe this lovely little tale then you also must believe that your God is the greatest mass murderer in the history of this earths existence.
By far.
There is no two ways about it. It cannot be denied.
All who were not on that boat were exterminated. You might even assume none were innocent and all were guilty and somehow deserved it. But one thing for sure is innocent infants and animals that had no comprehension on what was going on also perished in the massacre regardless.
All because God was was rather upset.
Yep.
Completely sane and acceptable. An excellent moral lesson for us all.
And that is only one of several outrageous concepts.

Your God is currently doing either one of two things with all the evil and suffering that is currently happening in the word today.
And I include the subject of this thread into this.

Either God cannot stop the evil, or he chooses not to.

There is no other options in this situation.
If God cannot stop the evil, then he is obviously not God.
If he can stop the evil but chooses not to, he is evil himself.
Could you stand by and let it happen if a human or animal was being tortured and killed and you had it in your power to stop it?

You say he has designed choice into each of us.
We can choose good or evil. It is up to us.
It means we are free to live our lives as we see fit, and not as slaves.
So then explain Heaven to me?
A supposedly beautiful and perfect place that is sinless.
The obvious two questions.
1. So we are free on earth but slaves in heaven as we cannot choose sin there?
2. If God designed heaven to be perfect, why not cut out the middle man and simply make this world perfect in the first place?

I actually have no issue with yours or others beliefs.
Its your right.
Its not my place to change that and what I believe is irrelevant to others.
But when I hear that a child's laughter, a rainbow, or anything exceedingly beautiful is proof of the existence of God at his glorious best, and then in the same breath he is defended against anything horrific, bad or evil, I very quickly lose my patience at the hypocrisy.
When a disaster occurs and 5 people luckily survive, it is by the grace and glory of God. But hey, too bad for the other 2000 odd that didn't make it. That's not his fault. That's not his doing.

And who are we as mortals to judge and question Gods will?
I'll give you the tip.
I am questioning and judging God!
Me.
Directly to him.
Big time.
As my God given right to exercise the freedom he supposedly gave me so I am not a slave!
I do this because it is morally reprehensible to simply allow horrific things to happen to innocent people and accept it as all part of Gods mysterious plan that we cannot possibly understand or comprehend.
What a disgraceful showing of disrespect and disregard towards fellow human beings in need.
Or to accept that God knew all this evil, pain and suffering would happen but allows it to continue unabated anyway.

Over time there have been many evils and atrocities conducted solely under the name of religion. Look at the subject of this thread.
But name me one good positive thing done under the name of religion that has not or could not be done without religion?
Correct. Not one...

Yes, I know I have offended many with the above comments, but isn't it amazing that no one takes into account the offence taken by non believers to simply explain everything bad and evil away to "All Part of Gods Plan" and "Who are we to question it"?

Finally, regardless of whether God exists or not, it is left to us to resolve this horrific religious based terrorist situation the world now finds itself in.
Praying will not help because again God either cannot help or simply will not...

And people ask me why I do not believe?

Over and out on this...

* Last updated by: yannih on 11/18/2015 @ 3:57 AM *

"Did you know you are an atheist? Yes you believe in one particular God, but not in the other 99.5% because that's against the rules right?"..you funnyLOL.

I'll say this...personally..they all are seeking "god".So they they put a mane on it to make it 'tangible'.Is it really not the same SPIRIT they're after?"The Almighty"?American Indians call theirs "The Creator"...or "Grandfather".Jews call theirs.."Yaweh".Muslims call theirs.."Allah".

How about those that 'have' no name for what they worship?They trust and rely on 'something' unseen and 'almighty'.
I'm no atheist.No one has seen God..and lived.That doesn't mean He's not here.I've never seen the wind either...so it doesn't exist?

In fact,that analogy is said in the Bible.Several times.It's really not so far fetched.We can't see past the 'known universe' either.So that means this here(in our celestial neighborhood)is all there is?There's no 'infinity' then?

Once they thought the world was flat.

God said "My ways are NOT your ways".(light bulb comes on here ).

And.."who has known the mind of God...that he may instruct Him?"

All I'm sayin is...The Spirit of God is not able to be contained in a box on the shelf.You can't take it down and look at it.If it was that simple...there'd be no 'journey'.Isn't that what drives man.The journey?Exploration?New bikes?It's the journey of man to discover.Caring.LOve.Understanding.Journeys.Hospitals.Medicine.Technology.GETTING ALONG WITH OTHERS.We want 'this'...but we don't want 'that'.We all pick and choose. That's a gift.Instead of being forced.

God is no different.He doesn't force anyone.Atheist?Nah..not me.I don't see God as 'white or black'...middle eastern looking or Japanese in appearance.

All faiths are seeking the same SPIRIT.That's what ends up connecting.Not a book.Or a ritual.You don't have to say.."Oh God Jehovah" to connect with the Spirit.And you don't have to be somehow...'perfect' to enter.He meets us where we're at.ALWAYS.Without reservation.Why...He's here right now;)

"One thing we do know is the book was not written by God"...'we' know this do we?Is it possible that God through his spirit directed these men to write what they were receiving?We know that this "god" could never inspire like that right?We've got Him all nicely figured out,don't 'we'.I mean...hey,we're the smartest deal since sliced bread.Surely we know exactly how this "God deal concept" is and works.Right?

Well...the 'masters' of the universe are runnin headlong into a freight train.So we say in desperation.."Oh God...NOW I'm ready to believe...clean this deal up for us will ya?And oh,btw,thanks but no thanks for your 'uppity' advice".

And if we continue doing the same deal over and over...it's GOD's fault.I mean...He supposedly 'made us',we don't have any say it any of it,yes?It's man's choice.Not God's.

"Believers also dedicate their lives to a book"...I don't know any believers that do this.

You have a service manual for your bike do ya?What are you ultimately relying on...the book to fix it?Or YOUR ability to perform it.It isn't the written instructions that fix it.It's YOU.And how do you 'perform' the fix?By doing the physical and mental process of the work. It's no different than God.He gives the 'instructions' in the word.If we allow Him to be the guide through His spirit(instead of OUR running the show)...the written word becomes
alive in us.Just like(or similar to)the reading of the manual and then the execution of the instructions.The book is inert...it doesn't do anything by itself.It's us that makes it valid.When we 'believe'...our 'spirit' confirms the 'book' is valid.(Or the spirit of God).You don't need 'the book' to receive 'the spirit'.It's our 'understanding' of things that stops us from 'getting more'...spiritually that is.Just because I don't get it...doesn't mean it's not real.

"Either God cannot stop the evil, or he chooses not to.
There is no other options in this situation.
If God cannot stop the evil, then he is obviously not God.
If he can stop the evil but chooses not to, he is evil himself".

The truth is...He already defeated evil.OUR rejection perpetuates 'evil'.His solution..."Overcome evil with GOOD".We say...screw that..'do unto others before they do unto you"..so God's 'evil?.Taking your example of.."stepping in to stop something bad'..is exactly the point.Did GOD do that?Or the individual.The individual CHOSE to do that.God didn't make him.HE chose.It's not up to God to stop what's going on...that doesn't make Him evil.It's up to US to chose.That's the beauty of it all.We make our decisions...and we experience the consequences.I see nothing 'unfair' or 'evil' about that.If we choose something 'bad'...we can expect something likewise in response.Do we blame God when our choice turns out badly?Usually...it's an easy cop out to redirect responsibilty.
Like a spoiled child...wanting it's way and blaming the parents when he doesn't get it?Think about it.

We want God to shower us with nice things...and we pout when we don't get it.Freebies...all the time...free lunch.

The 'collective mind' says..."there's no God...how could there be..look what's happening".Who's actually creating this stuff?WE ARE.God has nothing to do with it.He said clearly.."chose this day whom you shall serve"...there it is.Choice.God doesn't pull the trigger.Nor does he stop it.Does that make him somehow..'evil'?If you take a curve too fast on you bike...and lose it...aren't the LAWS of physics at work?Unchangeable.Unbendable.

Just because we can't SEE the laws at work...it doesn't mean they aren't there.God is NO different.Once a person 'opens up' to the 'possibility' of there being a caring God...they begin to SEE the confirmation of it.All around..in everything.Undeniable...'factual' if you will.Actually...once someone 'gets this'...they can't imagine or believe they couldn't see it before...it's THAT obvious.

If you put your hand on a hot stove..won't you get burned?Is this God's fault?No...it's a saving FACT..'stove,burn,ouch'..not good."Curve,slow down,survive"...good.If I choose to ignore the REAL facts..I get burned.Or crash...or whatever comes from trying to 'beat the odds'.If you close your spirit and mind off to the possibility of something greater,won't you get the same results?

About the flood...do we know what kind of situation was behind that?No...we don't."Their deeds were continually evil"...that's all we 'know'.It's GOD's property.Doesn't he have the right to do with it as he sees fit?We say.."Oh...how horrible'...God's a murderer".Do we know what kind of 'evil' those people were committing?No...specifically we don't.Is it possible that there was SOMETHING happening that needed to be cleansed from this Earth that man didn't know anything about?Just maybe His flood allowed you and I to be here.????And yet some say God is 'evil' for what he does and allows.I don't know ANYONE living today that honestly say..."I KNOW everything about God...so here it is".....

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/16/2015 @ 11:22 AM *

I won't even go into how well T-rump would handle this thing, but the main thing that needs to happen is for the Middle Eastern countries need to finally get off their collective asses and lead the all out assault on these fringe Islamic groups. No more letting the west take care of their problems, that just feeds into the narrative of a Crusader war against Islam. This is a Muslim problem and needs to be handled by Muslims. We can support but THEY have to have the main lead.

Mad

Agree...King Abdullah said exactly that...it's a MUSLIM issue...and the MUSLIM nations NEED to be at the forefront of this...not the West.Truly about time.He's not the ONLY Muslim voice that has been saying this.

Good post Madd...so true.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/16/2015 @ 9:39 AM *

Yanman said.."All who were not on that boat were exterminated. You might even assume none were innocent and all were guilty and somehow deserved it. But one thing for sure is innocent infants and animals that had no comprehension on what was going on also perished in the massacre regardless".

I'd have to say...our 'perceptions' of this idea of mass extermination and whether it's good or bad(babies and all)is based on OUR thoughts of good and bad.And our 'assumptions' about 'the afterlife' or whatever.We assume 'this world and all' is it.The beginning.The end.Of everything.
Can anyone actually PROVE there isn't something ELSE out there?In another dimension?In a totally different universe?Perhaps God's taking of these 'innocents' was his way of removing them from the horror they were experiencing(or going to experience) from this 'evil generation'.Instead of 'punishment'...how about the possibility of..."love and compassion"..not wanting those innocents to be subjected to the deeds of their caretakers.

It should be remembered...man was choosing this.God wasn't making it happen.Just as today.Does that mean that murdering of innocents is somehow God's way of 'saving them' for some 'out there' paradise?Not even.

Back in the days of Noah...they didn't HAVE these modern weapons.They didn't HAVE the conflicts that are happening now.

And who's to say God doesn't have a place of protection and safety..eternal safety..for those that are innocently destroyed by others.

Leaving THIS world...under those pretexes..would that be such a bad thing?I don't think so.Killing is wrong..but it isn't gonna change...I do believe God has a place prepared for innocents.Why not?He's fully capable of having that.I think so anyway.The 'feel' of death is terrible...horrible.But in reality...when it's complete..there is no remembrance of the pain.So from that point on...suffering is over.I say this because I myself died on the emergency room gurney.Three times actually.In full consciousness.Yet in the death experience...I had no remembrance of the pain at all.Nothing.Only the remembrance of being 'reawakened' with the electric shocks for my heart.That was no fun.But being dead...I didn't feel that.Or remember it at all.The fear of dying is just that...fear.When it happens...you don't 'feel' it.There is no 'feeling' of death.Not in my case anyway.I was there one minute...the next...'peace' if you will.And time stopped for me.Did i have a sense of.."hurry up guys..bring me back"...no.That was my small piece of eternity.Death is not something to fear.Your mind isn't thinking.."geez...let's move along now...I'm totally bored right here".I didn't remember the 'feeling' of 'being dead'..when I was.Or the fear of it..or anything else.If you say.."perfect peace'..then that's what it was.Though I wasn't 'feeling' it.We will be made 'alive' again...when it's time.It wasn't my time.And if it never actually happened...I wouldn't be aware of it anyway...until it happened.It wasn't my 'final hour'...when I truly see God.I believe that.

I do believe it was God's way of showing me...don't be afraid of death.In otherwords...live life to the fullest...the most compassionate and caring I can be..and keep asking God for his attributes in my life...to give away for someone else.I don't have to stop the violence around the world(necessarily)God has 'appointed' some to do that.And yes...with violence if need be..and He'll do the judging at the end.I only need to be good and loving to those I come in contact with NOW...wherever I am.There will always be people seeking mayhem and pain.I'm not one of em.And I'm not alone.The world is FILLED with goodness.It's everywhere.It can't be stopped unless WE choose to stop it.It's on us...not God.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/16/2015 @ 10:36 AM *

"But we recoiled from meditation and prayer
as obstinately as the scientist who refused to perform
a certain experiment lest it prove his pet theory wrong.
Of course, we finally did experiment,
and when unexpected results followed, we felt different;
in fact we KNEW different;
and so we're sold on meditation and prayer.
And that, we have found, can happen to anybody who tries.
It has been said that 'almost the only scoffers at prayer
are those who never tried it enough.' "... God Bless all you guys,and your families.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/16/2015 @ 10:48 AM *

"I found that my problems were actually opportunities for me to grow and change. Today my problems have become my teachers, leading me to spiritual solutions when I become WILLING to look for them".

They ARE there...the spiritual solutions...FACT.Not fantasy.

"Most people try to live by self-propulsion. Each person is like an actor who wants to run the whole show and is forever trying to arrange the lights, the scenery, and the rest of the players in his own way. If his arrangements would only stay put, if only people would do as he wished, the show would be great.
What usually happens? The show doesn't come off very well."..just read the news. (and this is God's fault?).

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/16/2015 @ 11:05 AM *

I think I'd like to go for a ride with you someday, Grn14. There are laughs to be had!

Miles of Smiles?LOL...I'd be honored my man!God knows I need to laugh(at myself)WAY more than I do;)

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/16/2015 @ 2:32 PM *

God's not answering prayers tends to confirm that He is not there. here was my last prayer. "dear God, I have given up asking that you answer any of my prayers. I trust that there is some reason what I have asked for has not been granted and I do not need to know why as long as I am confident that You are in control of my life. The only thing I need is faith in You so please give me faith."

Still waiting. No offense to any believers but for now, I'm pretty ok with the idea that God's not there. To call myself an atheist would imply that not believing in God was an important part of my life. Really, I don't give it much thought. I just get on with life.

I worship pussy.

There are to many posts to reply individually, and I'm to lazy to read all of it LOL but here
are a few thoughts, first off, I'm not going to try and "save" anyone, I don't have that power,
if you believe in Christianity, the holy spirit will do that .... there are many religions,
only one has someone that died for your sins, and paid the price for you to have eternal life
AFTER you die ... none of the other ones have that, Islam is and has been violent soon after its
inception around 700 A.D. other religions have had bouts of violence, but most of them really are
peaceful NOW, but what if what Jesus said IS true ? you have to think about that, but you have the
freedom to believe or not to believe. Jesus said I am the way, the truth, and the light, no one can
come to the Father, but by me ... this entails the trinity, another subject .......

Why doesn't God audibly talk to us ? I don't know, I'm not God, He has in the Old Testament, and
history will show eye witnesses, but I cannot prove this to you, has anyone actually saw Abe Lincoln ?
NO, another subject .... God is not the author of Evil, but obviously he allows it to happen, Why ?
I don't know, maybe he didn't want us to be robots, and that's where freedom comes in, along with
good things, bad things happen also .... see, freedom has choices, and also consequences .....

has anyone actually saw Abe Lincoln ?

I saw a couple photograhs.

Photoshopped.

Ok, my bad on Abe Lincoln, LOL but you know what I mean .... No photographs of many
other people in history that people have no problem believing in ...

I have absolutley no problem with Faith. I do however have a problem with organized religion. History has shown over and over that man's involvement with faith leads to persecution and death. So, I have my own personal set of beliefs but don't need to impose them on anyone else.

Mad

If God won't make me believe in Him now, I sure hope He does it before I die. It's not possible to pray for something when you don't think it's real. How's that for a catch 22?

Local story: a college kid up here is being investigated by the FBI for posting "kill those n---ers" online. and this comment was directed at Muslims. I don't have the whole story. It's really just hearsay. I know the families of his parents and they are definitely good folks so I assume the kid was talking about terrorists and made a stupid choice of words. Scholarship in jeopardy and facing all sorts of consequences. Like I said, I don't know all the details but it strikes me as very odd the FBI would be investigating someone expressing hatred for terrorists. Since I know this is a good kid, I have no doubt his foolish wording will be forgiven...but here we have Big Brother on our backs for expressing contempt for those who wish to destroy our country???? WTF?? Talk about a lose/lose situation. I guess it is just an investigation that was drawn to his public comment in light of the terrorist attack that just happened. I sure hope the FBI is investigating the real terrorists with as much vigor as those who condemn the terrorists.

....and watch what you say online because Big Brother might just be watching.

What good would it do for other Muslims to handle these "extreme" Muslims. They are all brain washed and instructed to kill those who will not convert. Believe or don't believe in the afterlife, but what I just posted is TRUTH. They won't stop until we are all dead or converted. The media tries to preach "tolerance" when the mudslimes preach death to the infidels. Religion of peace? How stupid can people really be? The mass migration of muslims is known as Al-Hijra. The stealth jihad of immigration. Flood another country, demand special treatment, grow in number, and finally wage war from the inside out until all infidels are killed or converted. Look it up.

....and watch what you say online because Big Brother might just be watching.

Believe me ... from where I've been and done and seen, Uncle Sugar, Big Brother whatever you want to call them hears all and sees all in all but pigon messages and face to face. It's just data, and they have as much memory and computers as they need all the time.

Come on Maverick. The Bible says that the penalty for eating pork or being unfaithful is death. You going to round up all the Christians because their Holy Book states a bunch of nonsense????
It's time for everybody to grow the fuck up.

Mad

"The Bible says that the penalty for eating pork or being unfaithful is death"....

LOL.You missed THIS tidbit..."it is not what goes INTO a man that defiles him,it's what comes out".

"All manner of sin can be forgiven a man...but blasphemy against the Holy Spirit..this shall never be forgiven".

So being a good, honest, descent, kind, respecting, considerate and loving human being is not enough huh?
One has to believe in a non provable and non logical spirit that no one has ever actually seen or heard, and worship it like a slave to be saved?

Therefore by that rational, someone who all their life has tortured, raped and murdered is saved because all manner of sin can be forgiven a man as long as he does not blaspheme the Holy Spirit?
But the good, honest, descent, kind, respecting, considerate and loving person who doesn't believe and states the fact is doomed for eternity?

Brilliant logic.
No no. Seriously.
Absolutely brilliant...

This will make your day.........Is this a great country or what?

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=0R81h6rWgtU

* Last updated by: redboot on 11/20/2015 @ 8:27 PM *

I'm not sure that tells the whole story. If they don't have kids or are not disabled, they probably aint getting nuthin. Also, I believe they would have to be a US citizen with a SSN, Muslim or otherwise.

Far as God rewarding you for being a good person, yannih, He doesn't do that. He rewards you after death for accepting Christ as your savior while you were alive. If you accept Him, that does not mean you get anything while you are on earth but you will suffer. He even tells us that in the Bible.

'you will suffer in my name.'

Bad guys sure can go to heaven. If a rapist/murderer is caught abducting a child and shot and killed in a shootout with the police, the sinner will go to heaven as long as he accepts Christ before he expires. The cop who was killed by the rapist will go to hell if that cop has not accepted Christ. That's how it goes.

'The way to heaven will be narrow but the way to hell will be wide.'

Lots of people who do good are going to hell.

God does promise to protect those who are loyal to him and to grant at the very least, their daily bread. Obviously that is not a 100% guarantee but apparently that can be hoped for.

* Last updated by: Rook on 11/21/2015 @ 7:42 AM *