Clutch pack... Use all OEM parts or else.

Signed,
NOLTT

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No I haven't really given the slave cylinder much thought, I've got new plates and springs on the way. So while I'm replacing those I suppose it wouldn't hurt to pull that off and give it a look.

Shit. Or else what? I've got barnett plates and brocks springs ordered already

LOL...this is gettin good;)

now you guys just watch...Fozz'll get er done...then never post again his results!....

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 8/17/2015 @ 3:59 PM *

I'm going to say that Barnett uses some sticky material so no slip, hard to catch Neutral... maybe.
I'm going to take a second breath and say that Barnett works for so long and now so long, it's been short to know ya.
I'm going to say, and just the house say, and say the most experienced clutch punishing "Hand" on a lever would be Smoke, and Smoke might chime in and say OEM outperforms; when it's time for a number down the 1320.

I'm going to repeat the same mantra... 'rub both hands together, which hand [did not wear out or] remain cold?' So you are about to install a pack of frictions with used steels or does the Barnett come with steels and frictions as a set?

I'm going to ask if the steels are the cause of a warp so as to slip is one variable. Show where there are no flat-to-flat steels, we stack all the steels in the palm of the hand. So yes, teardown now, note how they came out, meaning, the steels have a cut side you can slice your fingers on so those all face you as they are removed... Are they? Now, stack all the steels laid on each other so all the cuts face the same direction, so round side sits on your palm and the cuts face up. Where is there an air gap is one way to find 'static warp.' Swap the two outsides so they lay in the middle and expose them as flat or not?

I'm going to show how you are now at a 'stacking quandary,' because the pack is going to be short in height with used, worn down steels. We now have to measure for thickness and are they within spec? See how we add up both sides, times how many steels, by the wear-to-spec of so many hairs found off the sides of a gash say is that much shaved away brazilian style.

I'm going to sign off now as,

NOLTTolerances

* Last updated by: Hub on 8/17/2015 @ 6:57 PM *

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They've got a kit with both sets of plates.

If he's not racing then it'll be fine Hub. Not everyone demands as much of the clutch as Lee and I.

You can get the rebuild kit.Any small siltlike black particles in the bottom of the reservoir?

I've got this small silt-like black particles in the bottom of my clutch reservoir, also.

I've no problems developed yet, but I wondered what that stuff was. So, it' from clutch rubber gaskets wearing out, OK.

I use the turkey baster method of removing and replacing the clutch fluid, so I *guess* that whatever silt-like rubber is being collected in the slave, is still in there (since I dont bleed it out).

I thought about using a Q-Tip swab to remove it from the reservoir, carefully pushing it away from the orifice while swabbing it up.

Or, should I leave it alone?

Thoughts?

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I'd just bleed your system...replace the old with new...

Not attempt to remove the silt-like particles from the reservoir?

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You can if you want...suck the fluid out with the baster,then wipe res with something.Long as you have fluid in the inlet hole to the master,the dry res will not affect air going into the line(long as ya don't pump the lever).Clean...then fill,then bleed.

If any has entered the line from before,it couldn't be much to affect anything.A bleed will remove anything still in there.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 8/21/2015 @ 10:08 PM *

Okay guys I'm stumped and getting rather frustrated. I installed the new clutch pack, both friction and steel plates. The new stack is within spec length. With the bike in gear and the clutch lever pulled in the clutch is not releasing. What am I doing wrong or what do/ should I check next?

WOW!...shit...bummer.Can you get it in N.Then pull the oil cap off...look down at the plates and pull clutch lever in.See what's happening there.(NO engine running that is;) )

Yea it goes into N. I've got the clutch cover off again. The spring plate moves when I pull the lever in but I'm guessing it's not enough. Slave maybe?

I tried rolling the bike in 1st with the lever pulled in before putting the cover back on and putting oil in it. Doing both wouldn't change anything would it?

You didn't accidently pull the clutch lever with things apart did you? If so you might have air in the clutch line.

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Yea I did when I was checking out the slave cylinder. But I have already bled the system. I've been doing some reading and it sounds like new plates can be sticky if they haven't been soaked long enough and they're not warmed up. So I'm going to try letting sit in oil for longer then letting the bike run for awhile.

That could work...keep us posted on this...(even though I wish you weren't having this deal going on).

I'm surprised Hub hasn't commented.HUB??????

It seems you've done virtually everything so far to narrow this down.It COULD be that slave...isn't that about the only thing you haven't inspected yet?The push rod in there,and the piston.That has to be able to fully push against that rod...and retract.Could that rod somehow have gotten 'bent' slightly?IDK how it would...but I think the manual mentions something in there about being careful not to bend that.Maybe?I used to bleed my system on a regular basis.One thing I used to do...was run the motor till everything warmed up nicely.Then...I'd refill and bleed the system.When it came to the slave bleed,I used to rest the bike against something so it was leaning to the right.I don't know if this helped get the trapped air up into the top of the slave bleed area or not...but that's how I did mine.I never had any 'air' issues doing it like that.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 8/26/2015 @ 9:42 AM *

Top of page2

We brought along a sponsor, we are going to install these. They only last a race, but the grip is outstanding.
Debrief: 'I'm dragging the clutch at the line, almost got taken out as if I jump started, but I took out the first 2 rows when the green flag dropped, I had to kill the engine I couldn't find N coming in.'

1. Before I roll to a stop, it's easier to find N.
2. Before I tear my hair out, I can find N when I kill the engine I forget to coast to a stop.
3. Before I say anything else... I should have listened to turtle who prides himself on clutch setup, be it jap/ital/HD/BmyW.. WOT did I tell you?

Signed,

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When I had everything apart I pulled and regreased the push rod, it seemed fine but I'll check again. And give the leaning thing a try, seems like it could help. How far is the spring plate supposed to move when you pull in the lever?

Yea hub I get it your not a fan of the barnetts plates. I already had them ordered when you said something, I don't know about you but I'm not made of money so reordering oem plates isn't high on my list to do. Kind of seems like you're trying to be a dick...

"Kind of seems like you're trying to be a dick..."...he's not trying,believe me;)

BTW,it's MY fault...I asked him to comment....

He's not trying to be a dick...stay focused...I think(unfortunately) the suggestion of OEM just may be yer only recourse here...but it's troubling that your 'old' plates and such aren't showing any signs of not being fine.You did say they looked okay,right?And not warped?

IDK if you ever said...but was this bike NEW when you got it?If not...God only knows HOW it was clutched.But I think you'd see heat coloring on those plates(steels)if it had been 'abused'.I mean...very visible heat coloring.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 8/26/2015 @ 2:32 PM *

Yea hub I get it your not a fan of the barnetts plates.

On the contrary... I'm a big fan of barnetts. As long as they are straight and are within the pack-spec, not a problem if they are extra sticky, lets work them in and see what happens next? I would have to believe you bled the lines and no bubbles, hard lever and all that. What was the last thing you changed? The plates and they are not OEM, so you'd assume the throw is off, you have air with a hard pedal? No. Lets narrow it down.

I already had them ordered when you said something, I don't know about you but I'm not made of money so reordering oem plates isn't high on my list to do.

Understood. However, there is a lesson to be learned. The aftmkt vs OE is what... OE is 1/3rd more? Let's say OE is 100 bucks and aftmkt is 75 bucks. I needed 25 more but now I am out 75, I am out 125 or say if I broke the bank for 25 more, I would have the OE in the bike, no problems. If this does not break-in (wear out a little at the tangs so they float and not stick) and show a little release so N is easy to find, I am out another 100 for the OE. So lesson wise (guy) says that for 25 bucks, how can I be the dick if I tried to stop you or warn you is I couldn't.

Kind of seems like you're trying to be a dick...

Kind of doesn't it. But empirical points the way... it just seems like it, but when you see how the math tumbles, your situation I've seen time and time again, you were almost ahead of the game if only you stuck to OEM. And that is why I have a reputation of being a dick, using the meat puppets, etc.

Signed,

I told you so.

P.S.
I want to be so wrong, it was the grease, it was the bleed, it's not the new aftmkt parts.

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Well...it did this with the old plates...now the new...so I'd rule that out?I don't think it's a clutch pack at all.Just my .02...maybe less;)

"A couple weeks ago my clutch began slipping when rolling on the throttle around 5k rpms. Only really noticeable when the bike is warm after 20 minutes or so of riding"...for my own info here...wouldn't the plates expand?.This wouldn't create slipping...would it?

I think there's TWO deals going on here..that are unknowns.First...the previous owner.Secondly...the condition of the plates that were taken out.

Guys drag these all day long and report a good clutch feel.AND..we don't know(do we?)the mileage of the bike at his purchase.

The fact that BOTH clutch packs are behaving the same seems to rule that out...????

Just an offshoot here...and a VERY long shot at best...the line isn't pinched somewhere is it?

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 8/26/2015 @ 5:14 PM *

Well...it did this with the old plates...now the new...

Old locking and the new locking also? I may have missed that. Fozz, how deep were the grooves in the clutch outer or the big basket that holds the frictions? Now check the clutch center, or the little guy in the middle and those grooves? The load and lift are smacking into frictions and steels into those clutch basket parts. That is one way of not catching N in the plush lift out of gear, no ankle brace needed when dismounting finally finding N.

wouldn't the plates expand?.This wouldn't create slipping...would it?

No. Let's say the stockers expand and no problem finding N.
Now, let's say the grooves are a possible problem, not plate expansion with that far of a throw at the pressure plate. OEM does not lock. Only two things I know of, are plates sitting and stuck together with that old oil creating a sticky/gummy mess on the surfaces. Next is the groove variable. A final thought is rod push not making it past release so a bubble, but you'd know that at the lever, or see it at the oil cap.

So the idea is to lift the back wheel, throw it in first gear, pull the clutch lever and hold it, break the rear wheel loose from the plates. It should first drag and then freewheel almost, or say easier to spin when it gets rolling. No spin but a lot of drag after a hand full of turns = Grooves in baskets [is the variable] with new friction and steels.

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Just got it all put back together and out for a test ride. Slip free! For now anyways. Had no trouble going into N. For now anyways. Thanks everyone for your insight and recommendations. I'm by no means a clutch expert now but I definitely have a better understanding and better ideas about how to address future issues.. hopefully no time soon. Thanks again.