Ya Bean Mate, you went through something similar to Grn. Good to hear you're mended and life is good!

Yes, sorry to hear all this about your Mom Grn. My father passed away last April after complications from a broken hip. He was in a hospital bed for months as things progressed from bad to worse. He finally said "I want to go home" so we got him released and took him home. He lasted 72 hours. I learned from that, I want to go fast when it's my time....but we don't choose our own end.

Well, thank God you survived this and had good medical care. Hang in there with your mom, it's only for a short time and then they're gone. You'll be glad you had this time with her.

Ya....Thank You all for the kind words.And I'm sorry some of you had to go through that stuff as well.Not something anyone can really understand untill....you guys are really my closest friends.I mean that.

For you guys running without the KTRC activated on your 14's..I would advise...leave it in the '1' position at least.It 'may' have made a difference for me...IDK...but I had it turned 'off'...yup.So fast...no way really of knowing if there would have been enough 'time' for it to sense a frontend slip...I would leave it 'on' just in case.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 10/7/2012 @ 12:28 PM *

From the sounds of things Grn, it wouldn't have made much difference. It appears like a classic low side where the front end tucked when you hit some gravel. I leave my TC on F1 on my 10R, full power and minimal intrusion but I ride like I don't have it at all. I see it as a last ditch safety net, might save your bacon under some circumstances but best not to count on it.

You'll be back on your feet in a few months, might be wise to wait until the Spring to pick up a new bike. I sure hope they total that thing, I know I didn't want my old 10 back, it was pretty knackered.

Hey Grn we built our second last home to house my mother in-law Marlene she was a lovely quite person,she lived with us for her last six years on oxygen for previous 10 years, till she passed away,it got tuff with her demanding in the last few months but we managed to get through all this @%$&^*@# .im sure you will look back in time that it,s just another hurdle we all seem to go through

Yup, been through it with both my parents, it's unavoidable. I don't want to put my kids through the same thing, hopefully I'll go quick when my time runs out.

, hopefully I'll go quick when my time runs out.

Ya...I'm not ready at all to saddle up now...no way...too much going on .I can wait....most definitely.May have been God's way of clearing out the BS...IDK.Time to REALLY think things through and get things going where they need(ed) to be.It is possible I idolized my bike....it is.Not really realizing it...but it's possible.IDK how God works for other people...but with me....He has directed things in my life...sometimes not to my liking....but it takes what it takes.Certainly doesn't make Him a 'bad' guy.He's always looked out for my best interests...whatever those were.I'm going to try and listen this time out.I don't want my 14R back....seriously.That's a done chapter in my book.New...next year...maybe.IDK.Mom comes first.

When I almost crashed a month ago thought I was all that.I pulled the impossible off and thought I was a racer or something.Was doing about 80 and this van in front of me put on the left signal.I'll just go around him but he comes to a dead stop.Oh crap didn't see the car coming the other way blocking his path.I panic and pull the front brakes till the rear wheel is high off the ground but I ran out of room.Let go of the brakes and passed him on the right in the gravel.On the brakes again and he turns and I stop upright.Was crapping bricks,should of hit him.My wife has been begging me to slow down.But I got cocky and started going faster till I read about your crash.Bikes been sittin in the garage,don't want to die on it cause it's so deadly in my hands.People don't understand how wrong things can go so fast.Been lifeflighted before.Broke some ribs head trama.Was drunk,put me in recovery.Been clean and sober for 17 years.God didn't save me to let me die now.Take care and thanks.
Craig

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 10/7/2012 @ 6:33 PM *

Well...I'm glad you made it okay...I think the key you said.....'slow down"...yes.....it will be my motto IF I get out there again...I don't want to stop riding....no...but to live on a bike like these...I'm gonna have to do things different next time out.For sure.All the
railing at triple digit' shit is out for me.It's a great bike for riding...the best IMO.But terribly risky with it's potential.I HOPE I've learned my lesson...I doubt I have any more chances left.You know the key....take er easy.That's it.And stay alert.I'm gonna have to get my stupid ego out of the way...and ride like I used to....like I enjoyed just being there.Sa'll good letting it sit for a while...collect your thoughts about your reasons and go when you feel okay with it.Better to reflect and think sometimes than go blindly off in a tangent.Had I turned around that morning when I heard my inner voice say...
"WHY are you doing this?"...I would have been fine.That's what I think.But I justifed that day's ride with..."aw hell,this'is what 'guys' do.Ya...they do...when it's time.

"I'll just go around him but he comes to a dead stop.Oh crap didn't see the car coming the other way blocking his path."

I gotta say...two weeks before this I did virtually the same thing.Honestly.I went to pass like three cars...it was open....this guy hits his left turn signal and begins to turn into the (oncoming lane) going towards his house(I guess)(two laner).He pulls into the oncoming lane,so I continue accelerating cause I 'thought' he was either gonna pass the car ahead,or make his turn.What's he do?He friggin hits his brakes when he sees me back there.Instead of making his turn,he slows and I almost ran into him from behind.Thank God I had enough room to lay on the brakes and get slowed enough.5 mph faster..it may have been very different.IF there had been an oncoming car ahead of him...well...you know what would have happened...me too..Stay safe...and think ahead my brother.That should have been a serious wakeup call for me...but I played it off as 'his stupidity'.WRONG.In my case...WRONG.AS great as these bikes are...they still will not perform miracles when it comes to stopping and all.Lots of momentum and weight moving.They feel like they'll do anything...but they won't.I will have ABS IF I go again.....IF.

IDK if anyone else here has noticed...but with the new 14R...it WILL wiggle at the rear when the wheel locks...a perfect setup for a highside...so be careful when stopping quickly.Mine did it a couple of times....very subtle...but dangerously there(not talking about a fishtail...although that's probably what it's doing).Straightline braking....that's when mine did it.From high speed to low speed rapidly.Letting up on the rear brake stopped it...but it happened VERY QUICKLY...before I even really felt it starting.Suddenly...there it was...wiggling.

I'm not trying to scare anyone...but these things I found out about mine.If you don't ride like I did...you'll probably never experience any of this stuff.I hope you don't.Just be safe guys.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 10/7/2012 @ 7:08 PM *

Looks to me like target fixation got the best of you and by the time you realized you were running wide and went to correct your front tire was sliding out on the white line!

Grn you just lost your concentration. The road looked a little nasty that could have also been a problem. We all know that when you hit the road on a bike you have to have a clear head at all times, no day dreaming about other shit!

with the new 14R...it WILL wiggle at the rear when the wheel locks..

The Gen 1 also will do that. Even if the wheel is not quite locked, if you are on it hard enough to lighten it up, it will do a little shimmy on you.

Looks to me like target fixation got the best of you and by the time you realized you were running wide and went to correct your front tire was sliding out on the white line!

Also, those alternating sharp contrasts in cast shadows to bright light can be very mesmerizing this time of year with the sun low in the sky. Maybe that caught your attention entering the corner and then there's a truck coming in the other lane and not only that but another car behind it. You might have been spooked to tighten in on your apex.

yikes. thanks for showing Grn.

sorry to hear bout yr incident dude, hard to tell, but looks like you were going pretty slow, well, relatively, bike didnt tumble, sound of rpm/engine noise, lines on road passing by..50-75 mph maybe? idk
you did let off the power before you left road, its hard to tell, but looks like you didnt brake very much?or very hard, i dont see much dive/fork compression, but i also know sometimes braking is the last thing we do in these situations as the brain tells us whatever chance we have of keeping it upright, braking in that situation almost certainly wont help a lot, running wide/locking up on dirt

had you much on your mind ??? looks like rider error, i wouldnt be blaming the bike or tire, did you say you wont use dunlop again somewhere or did i imagine that?

get well soon

Yikes, Sorry to be reading about your Accident Grn. Glad to be reading your going to be ok. My brother too went down Thursday past. He is still in Hospital. All hits home. Get well

Thanks for posting the video Grn, it has to be painful for you to see that again so soon after the crash. I'm glad you left the remainder of the video with just the wind blowing through the grass and the blue sky. There is something calming, peaceful almost poetic about that after the violence of the crash. This is a powerful video and one that I hope others can learn from. The terrain you went down in looked ugly, you are one lucky fella to be alive right now! Thank God that you'll get another chance to ride.

I analyzed the crash frame by frame from about 10:42 on to 10:50 when dirt is flying. It appears your speed was not too great for conditions but that is hard to judge from a video as speed is relative to turn radius and camber, things difficult to judge in a vid. I would say you were around 70 mph just off the cuff. Your bank angle was about 30 degrees for the first part of the turn but increases very rapidly to 40-45 degrees at 10:44 just before you left the road as you probably realized you were too hot. I noticed you started your turn in far to the right side of the road already, probably because of the truck. No problem there, I run right up to the edge before starting my turn in to minimize the turn radius. I think you possibly could have dug deeper (leaned in more) and made the turn, you had some road left and maybe another 5 degrees of lean angle until your tires would have let go but this is all academic and speculation as I wasn't there. The police report, if you can get a copy, will probably read something like "Failed to properly negotiate corner, excessive speed for conditions possibly a factor."

I've got to go back and study this thing again but you had a couple of factors at work. That truck was taking up most of the oncoming lane and subconsciously had you steering wide to the right. You also had a sharply rising embankment with a turn arrow in front of it just off the road to the right which probably had you dividing your attention. Unless you knew this road very well, there was a lot of distractions in this corner. Add to that maybe a little hot going in and then I don't know your mental state that morning, were you focused or distracted by other thoughts?

I'm not going to play Monday Morning Quarterback here as any of us could have gone down under the same circumstances if the conditions were right. It looks like you were handling the bike well right up until the point of the accident. I see less factors here than in my crash where I made at least five classic blunders before tasting asphalt.

Ya...well..I welcome all opinions...I'm not at all sure what the hell happened...the fixation on the truck...the loss of concentration...I am inclined to go with that.Speed...I believe that corner is marked 45 ...not positive...NORMALLY...I'd be rolling twice that fast for a given speed marker.70 sounds about right.There's three corners in this area that always test me....this one...and two others.This one got me this time.....rider error....that's exactly what it was....rider error.The truck for whatever reason in my mind made me swing wider than I should have....and the end of the curve....it slightly tightens up....I dropped the ball on this one....I've taken that curve many times.....When I got off the gas....the radius was already tightening....it was too late for me.

" but looks like you didnt brake very much?"...no...I didn't...I was 'hoping' she'd pull into the roadway before she slipped at the frontend off the shoulder.Nope....just not enough time.Once the front hit that gravel and stuff...that was it.Total loss of control.

I don't really think it was the tires either.Too much speed and like buck said...loss of concentration.I should have made that turn.Unfortunately...there's way TOO MANY OF THESE EXACT KIND OF WRECKS WITH SPORTBIKES....i HAVE TO REMEMBER...SLOW IN...'FAST OUT'.i HAVE A TENDENCY TO DO IT 'ALMOST' THE OPPOSITE.i KNOW THAT.i HAVE TO THINK MORE WHEN i'M RIDING...ABOUT WHAT THE HELL i'M DOING.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 10/8/2012 @ 9:01 AM *

I have to agree with Kruz, Grn, it looked like you just ran out of room. I always try to crowd the centerline on left turns and be able to adjust when an oncoming vehicle crowds back. By the same token, I crowd the edge of the road during rights. Using this technique, you always have to leave yourself some room to adjust speed also, whether it's braking during the turn, letting of the throttle or both. If you have maximum inertia in a turn, letting off won't help and braking could lead to a whole other disaster.

" If you have maximum inertia in a turn, letting off won't help and braking could lead to a whole other disaster"...yup...chopping throttle will only make her stand up...it wouldn't have helped here I don't think.I tried to not hit the brake....but as soon as the front left the road...I think I remember applying SOME brake...but too late in the dirt and all.If I did...it was only to slow the bike down...some.I have snippets of recollections of the off road part...but that's all.Had there been one of those concrete berms they had around there...she 'may' have been somewhat saved.Just so happened...that spot...they had removed em.Course...I might have lost my leg if there had been one there?

I normally stay away from the centerline...because of DUI's here...they love to cross over.And the inside line..ya...I usually hug that pretty good on a right hander...but that's very risky considering gravel and such.Well...I won't be rollin hard up there anytime soon....I keep forgetting....I'm not invincible.

People always say..."trust your tires"...hell..I've said it to myself plenty of times.The problem is...you can't know what your tire limit is UNTIL.....you hit it.Mine have never slid....in any turn before.They didn't slide here either.I think I need to stop pushing so hard and get back to riding sanely again.

"Looks to me like target fixation got the best of you and by the time you realized you were running wide and went to correct your front tire was sliding out on the white line!"...agreed.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 10/8/2012 @ 9:48 AM *

" but looks like you didnt brake very much?"...no...I didn't...I was 'hoping' she'd pull into the roadway before she slipped at the frontend off the shoulder.Nope....just not enough time.Once the front hit that gravel and stuff...that was it.Total loss of control.

I would not have braked either. You were past the point where that might have helped. If you brake even remotely hard in a corner, you need to straighten the bike up or you will easily lowside before you run out of turn radius. That is what happened in my off track roll through the grass and it has happened on a few other lucky occasions where unlike you, I had no traffic coming at me (thank GOD) and went straight across the oncoming lane to stop at the opposite shoulder. ecccchhh!! Fortunately, I only suffered a bruised ego.....sure am glad nobody saw that.

DOn't be so hard on yerself Greenman. We've all had this stuff happen. We all learn from our mistakes. This is a biggy but you'll carry the experience with you and adjust your riding habits accordingly.

Thanks Rook....I know that feeling as well...the going off the 'other side' deal.Ya....it IS scarey.Been there as well.Luckily...like you...no oncoming traffic.I promise I'll be WAY more careful.And slow down.

You go out...you 'think' the roads you've been on a hundred times are gonna be perfectly the same.....you get overconfident....you push thinking 'I've done this before'...then suddenly...wham...something has changed.Concentration...road surface....oncoming car....gravel...whatever.EVERYTHING changes in an instant.I have to remember that.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 10/8/2012 @ 10:01 AM *

People always say..."trust your tires"...hell..I've said it to myself plenty of times.The problem is...you can't know what your tire limit is UNTIL.....you hit it.

You are right Grn. I am not that great of a rider and the 14 is not the best bike in a corner....but I have had mine step out just a bit many times. DON'T trust your tires. Trust more in optimum conditions like hot tires and hot, smooth asphalt but tires??? shit. I slip all the time this time of year. sorta have gotten used to it in the slow tight right handers. You and me, we do not have that except for a couple months out of the year. It's really not possible to keep a tire hot and sticky on the street like you would on the track. You have to let up on the street too often if you are at all sane.

"DON'T trust your tires"...agreed...thinking ahead of "what if" is much more reliable than going whole hog and then trying to "get out of it'....

GrnMan, one thing that throws me off in that video is trying to gauge your actual lean angle as that is measured relative to the road surface, not to the horizon. There is something that makes me think that turn was negative cambered, i.e. left hand corner with the road falling away to the right. Couple that with decreasing radius and you have an accident waiting to happen as it eats up your cornering clearance in a hurry. Scary unless you know that corner like the back of your hand. I dislike negative camber turns, Keith Code says that camber can be the most important factor in a corner, trumping even turn radius. I can believe it, I've touched down pegs on my 14 in an off camber corner several times when I thought I had plenty more lean to go and the radius didn't look all that severe...very misleading.

When you get better and feel mentally up to it, you need to drive (four wheeled conveyance this time)out there and look at that corner up close and personal. Get a look at the decreasing radius part and get a feel for the camber changes as you go through it. Unless I'm wrong, there is more to that curve than meets the eye in a two dimensional vid.

That rock pile you are heading for as you go down makes me shudder, you are a very lucky man!

Don't beat yourself up, you rode that sucker a long way in the gravel and kept her upright on two wheels a lot longer than many could have. You didn't grab a big handful of brakes either, you kept leaning her in trying to make that turn right up to the point where the front tucked. The skills were there, you just got distracted for a split second, it can happen to anyone. Also, don't take anything anyone says personally, I know I got pissed when I posted my crash pics and people were trying to tell me they could have saved it. Monday Morning Quarterbacks...lol!

You have to trust your tires, what else do you have....but....some folks seem to think of tire traction as a constant value whereas in the real world it is a variable. Sand, gravel, ice, water, road texture and material, road surface wear, waviness, bumps, tire wear, tire pressure etc., etc. all act to reduce the available traction. About the only time I would trust the manufacturers lean angle data is on a freshly scrubbed in warm tire on warm, sticky asphalt. Reading available traction under changing condtitions is what seperates a John McGuiness from the rest of us. If he ever gets it wrong, it's adios baby. Watch IOM TT 3D, Guy Martin was riding his bike right up to the limit of traction and went just a hair too far at Balley Garrey corner and .......boom...at 170MPH!