Shall I paraphrase for you Vic?

Because you and your religious kin cannot accept that there is nothingness when you all die, you have all invented a special invisible being in the sky that will grant you everlasting life when the time comes.
It gives you all great comfort and makes you feel safer.
But even though you can't prove it, you haven't seen it and you don't understand it's plan, you all blindly dedicate your lives to it.

But what if you are wrong?
Do you at least concede that God may not exist?

This is a very key question.

* Last updated by: yannih on 11/26/2015 @ 10:53 PM *

The shit humans make up. My creator is into coprophilia with sexual connotations. Oh, and he likes to watch me eat too.
Let me also perpetuate immaculate conception. Only happened once, like that guy on the stick came back once. Yeah, I've been perpetuating the perpetual he's coming back they say so here I wait.

No wonder I doubled up on being a misanthrope.

Jeez Hub.
And I thought I was harsh on this subject...

Well, just think when mohammy the warlord wrote that book smoking opium all day long. I'm sure he opened his mouth around town withaturkishitaffy tongue of his, the non-believers laughed it up. Fast forward and not one fucking thing has changed.

"But what if you are wrong?"...my life's definitely better(personally)than before I believed...That's been MANY years ago.Thing about 'believing'...it hasn't diminished my life...it's enhanced it 100%.If there isn't any such thing as a "God"...I'm still way better off today than I ever was.We don't have tomorrow.Only today.Today things are good.

Shall I paraphrase for you Vic?

Because you and your religious kin cannot accept that there is nothingness when you all die, you have all invented a special invisible being in the sky that will grant you everlasting life when the time comes.
It gives you all great comfort and makes you feel safer.
But even though you can't prove it, you haven't seen it and you don't understand it's plan, you all blindly dedicate your lives to it.

But what if you are wrong?
Do you at least concede that God may not exist?

This is a very key question.

First I was actually asking the question of you that is life utterly pointless? I need a clear answer from you to this question. (I accept the way I phrased it seemed I was asking rhetorically... that wasn't my intent)

Now onto your points/question.

Understand at points in my life I have been agnostic (earlier in life, when I was raised Catholic) and even atheist (there was a period of time from my late 20s-mid 30s). The arguments and points you, Hub, and others are putting forth are nothing new to me in terms of content or understanding. I understand your questions and your nature to question these things. I asked the same questions and posed the same challenges. And what can I say but there is some sense to them?

No, I cannot concede that God may not exist. I can't tell you how or why He exist or exactly what He is. What I can tell you is there is somehow, really an "invisible man in the sky" (as George Carlin put it, and to the extent we can describe) exist. The one thing I can promise you, if you form a personal relationship with God and gain an understanding of your personal covenants the truth will be revealed to you beyond any shadow of doubt.

We all have a personal relationship with God. We all have a personal relationship with each other. Not everyone knows God. Not everyone knows each other. Yet, that relationship exist. Can you describe for me what I am saying here? Can you describe why I would make such, for brevity sake, claims?

If it should turn out that God's not real, I'll be pretty happy with all the eating shitting and fucking I did as well as some other things. I'll sure regret passing on all the fucking I could have done as a lad. What a dumfuk I was.

"For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven"

You're right though. When it's just about curtain time, that's probably gonna sorta suck if there' nothing after it's all done. Nevertheless, I'll make life as meaningful as I can while I have it whether I believe or not. As far as the universe ending, that's a long time away and I trust science will have that and everything else well under control. If God doesn't put a stop to science, science will become god.

But that's the key. When you shed this mortal coil none of that will matter, therefore it doesn't matter now. Nothing of your consciousness will exist to be aware of all those life experiences (good and bad). If you happened to personally start a chain of events that led to the entire death and destruction of all life on this planet it wouldn't matter after it happened. There would be no one or nothing to "judge" your actions.

Everyone: "Nice job Rook, you just had to ride your 14 at top speed on Mount Saint Helens, somehow resulting in it building up pressure to such an extent it blew the planet in half extinguishing all life that exist on earth."
Rook: "Yeah, sorry about that!"

By the very nature of how you exist this "conversation" can't take place. When all of us are dead, our existence is inconsequential therefore it is just as inconsequential now. What we generally consider the good things, or bad things, it's all inconsequential.

Even if it takes the very end of the universe to wipe out any record of your existence it will happen. So does it matter if you stepped on the butterfly, or used up all the oil, invented the cure for cancer, or fed 100 million people? The end result is still the same... nothingness. I admit, nothingness is a fairly difficult thing for us to comprehend.

Essentially you're just a rock that can type. Ironically a Rook is a chess piece represented by a castle tower which is made from stone. There's either something special about our consciousness or there's not. Life either is utterly pointless, or it's not.

You know...this is true statement.It really is.Of course,the now is really what matters...in a certain scheme of things.But my personal belief is what changes my now.How I react.How I interact.The things I do or don't do.

After accepting this God idea...my perceptions on life and all changed.For the better in my case.That's not to say..I haven't made 'terrible' choices since.I have.But the 'faith' that was given to me then somehow sustained me through all of it.Something I was without for many years.My reliance and trust in 'God' and His son(I believe)have instilled an anchor for me that is unshakable.And it's been shaken a few times.But it never failed.And still doesn't fail.It only gets deeper and stronger as I go along.This is one reason I can say(for me)the truth of the 'bible' is genuinely authentic.It's not the pages or the ink that make it so.It's the TRUTH(that connects with me personally)that make it so.That's why saying..'it was written by man' has NO meaning in the sense that it's somehow flawed or corrupted BY man.The 'truth' contained in it isn't corrupted...IMO.And feeling this way..I have no reason to disbelieve the final(actually spread throughout it) words in it about the existence of a heaven or anything else concerning God's plan.

It doesn't make sense looking at it from the outside.It just doesn't.The world will tell us that.But once on the 'other side'...accepting and looking 'outward'...it makes more sense than anything else.I mean...this is my experience with it.

I KNOW for one that my lifetimes' of 'failures' and 'mistakes' are no coincidence.Some of the physical wrecks and such...no way could I have survived if there wasn't something...caring,protecting...me that was visually unseen.I KNOW this.

Non-believers can quickly say..fate.Luck.Whatever.I KNOW different.NOW.I didn't always.Knowing that reassures my faith that this acceptance of mine is real.Not just something someone told me.Or taught me...or anything else.If a person is contemplating anything about the existence of God...God is already preparing them.Bringing them closer to receiving the 'gift'.He showed me this because He DOES love me and care for me.That knowledge and confidence is priceless.The world and it's thinking can't give it.I found that out.Rather..it was given to me in spite of myself.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/27/2015 @ 2:22 PM *

"No, I cannot concede that God may not exist."

And there it is.
The sheer unadulterated arrogance of religion.
A huge reason why the world is going to hell and religion to a massive extent is responsible.
It's why so many innocents are killed and why so many wars are fought.
Because it is, I believe it, you are wrong, and that's all there is to it.

Not one piece of credible proof, not one piece of concrete logic.
But there is no way God does not exist.

A load of words written here that ultimately makes no sense at all.
And whats all this based on?
Your opinion. Nothing more. Zero proof. Zero logic.
But there is no way God does not exist.

Even I must concede that because I cannot disprove the existence of God he may exist!
But not religious believers.
Oh no.
There is no way God does not exist.

AIDS in new born babies?
But there is no way God does not exist.

The amount of death, destruction, torture, fear, hunger, and suffering perpetuated in the world today after a perfect God designed it?
But there is no way God does not exist.

Religious leaders molesting children?
But there is no way God does not exist.

Billions spent in the name of religion on the construction and maintenance of religious places of worship around the world while millions starve?
But there is no way God does not exist.

Different Gods worshiped around the world and the one you end up believing in is directly dependent on where you are born and what your parents and local society teach you?
But there is no way God does not exist.

The morally reprehensible religious acceptance of all evil and sin in the world today and the dismissing of the pain and suffering felt by the less fortunate all because it is part of Gods mysterious plan?
But there is no way God does not exist.

All the innocent people in the past and present who were/are mercilessly tortured and killed because they dare challenge or not believe the word of a particular God?
But there is no way God does not exist.

A book called the Holy Bible that explains God and his teaching but has the most ridiculous unbelievable illogical stories that also promotes killing your neighbors and slavery but no one knows who the author was?
But there is no way God does not exist.

Although God designed this complete and utter mess and therefore must be 100% responsible, he has intentionally stood by idly while it gets worse and worse every day with zero attempt at intervention?
But there is no way God does not exist.

Take religion out of existence and so many current wars and conflicts instantly end and the world becomes a more peaceful place?
But there is no way God does not exist.

A God demanding worship above all other moral attributes and expecting belief on no evidence at all?
But there is no way God does not exist.

For fuck sake, use the common sense you supposedly were born with.
Believe what you want. That is your right. There is absolutely no issue with that.
But if you cannot provide a semblance of credible proof, or credible logic to support it, then at least he honest with yourself that maybe, just maybe there might be other options.

I don't want to do this anymore.
I now know I am dealing with closed brainwashed minds.
Not because you believe.
But because of what you won't logically and possibly concede.

You just keep debating what cannot be logically supported or proven and give no possible concession you may be wrong.

I will no longer waste my time on this subject.

* Last updated by: yannih on 11/27/2015 @ 4:26 PM *

Even if it takes the very end of the universe to wipe out any record of your existence it will happen. So does it matter if you stepped on the butterfly, or used up all the oil, invented the cure for cancer, or fed 100 million people? The end result is still the same... nothingness. I admit, nothingness is a fairly difficult thing for us to comprehend.

Let's say humans don't solve the problem of the universe collapsing on itself in eight-thousand trillion years (assuming they were able to solve the problem of the supernova of our sun that will destroy the planet much sooner). Or the planet is destroyed by nuclear war 5 years from now. Either way, everything we know will be gone and we'll be gone with it. That doesn't render life meaningless to me. If my whole life means almost nothing in the grand scheme of things, that's ok. I still like living and I still want to try to do great things. Why? I guess doing my greatest work is FUN as long as it has some purpose today if not after I'm gone. Fun, that's it. Why do cats hunt? They enjoy it. You ever see a housecat kill a squirrel? They love to kill squirrels because they are so good at it. It's an awful lot of work for a horse to run but they do it because they like doing it. I think pleasure is the main motivation for all creatures and what they do best is usually what they enjoy best. It's not all eating shitting and fucking either. Pleasure can be quite a profound thing, especially for more intelligent animals. So fun is a good enough reason to live even if fun always has an end.

My recommendation is to find the highest cliff you can, and step off.

He meant the tallest guy named "Cliff".

Sounds a tad homo-erotic to me...

wfozx14, that's just me.
One difficult mother fucker...

* Last updated by: yannih on 11/27/2015 @ 4:31 PM *

Yanman says.."but no one knows who the author was?"...according to a lot of people...MAN wrote it.If that's so...literally...no wonder things are so screwed up;)

The real 'problem' is that mankind doesn't WANT to be off the throne of this universe.He wants to keep playing God...

He wants to believe he's all that and a bag o'chips.He's done a terrible job of running this world.But he keeps on going.Headlong...proud.Self centered.It's all about him.No God...no 'reason' beyond himself to do the right thing.

If there is a God...He's trying to say.."I TOLD you so".

But man aint listenin.He's too busy doing it his way.He'll figure all this stuff out.Afterall...isn't he God unto himself?He certainly doesn't want someone steppin in and challenging his intelligence.God forbid.

"Better way"?...pffft...who gives shit about a 'better way'.I'm just fine...fuck you very much...and BTW,this God of yours caused all this shit to begin with...If He is there...fuck him...he hasn't done anything for lil ole me".

Poor baby.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/27/2015 @ 6:58 PM *

Finally, we win! God does exist! Of course if I was wrong, it wouldn't change my life at all. I enjoy living a good life. It might get a little hot for the non-believers that are wrong though.

Trying to get us to see your view by pointing out bad/evil things in the world? For every bad you can point out, there are millions of good. If you don't see that, I feel sorry for you.

Right.
I wasn't going to reply anymore but I just can't help but respond to these pitiful, pointless and ridiculous responses.

Not once in this thread have I said don't believe what you believe to anyone. I simply have wanted to try to understand why and how people dedicate their lives to something with the evidence on hand.
I have tried not to be disrespectful with what people choose to believe what ever that may be.
I have however sometimes become frustrated when contradictory responses that clutch at straws have been given.
And I certainly have not been so disrespectful to state here that I feel sorry for anyone who does not agree with my beliefs.

"Trying to get us to see your view by pointing out bad/evil things in the world? For every bad you can point out, there are millions of good. If you don't see that, I feel sorry for you."

Hypocrisy at it's absolute best.
Just unbelievable!
These millions of good things?
Who are you to attribute these to religion?
Who are you to attribute these to God?
Are you so narrow minded that you believe no good can come from the human being without imaginary non provable intervention.

You made the comment.
Now back it up with proof.
I repeat.
Prove it.
Show me that religion only is responsible for the millions of good things you mention in the world that mankind could not possibly do.
Show me that man kind does not have it within or is not capable of goodness without God?
Tell me one thing, just one thing that is good that religion has achieved that mankind alone could not?
There are countless horrific things done in the name of religion only but I'm not asking about those because we all already know the answer to that one right...

As a matter of fact, seeing you patronizingly feel so sorry for me, go back on every point I have made on this thread and prove where I have got it wrong?

But don't answer with bullshit faith, bullshit opinions, bullshit analogies and bullshit stories from the most unbelievable, intelligence insulting, authorless book ever written!

Facts!
Just provable, logical, believable facts.
You want this play this game?
Lets play.

You feel sorry for me huh?
I'm done trying to be relatively respectful when I get disrespectful shit like "I feel sorry for you".
Lets see what you've got mate?
Don't hold back because I no longer will.

Back up your comments!
Put your beliefs on the line like I at least have been man enough to do.

Let's see what you've got...

* Last updated by: yannih on 11/28/2015 @ 4:36 AM *

Yannih you did not answer my question. You think you got it all figured out. But you haven't answered my question.

Is life utterly pointless?

* Last updated by: VicThing on 11/28/2015 @ 7:28 AM *

Let's say humans don't solve the problem of the universe collapsing on itself in eight-thousand trillion years (assuming they were able to solve the problem of the supernova of our sun that will destroy the planet much sooner). Or the planet is destroyed by nuclear war 5 years from now. Either way, everything we know will be gone and we'll be gone with it. That doesn't render life meaningless to me. If my whole life means almost nothing in the grand scheme of things, that's ok. I still like living and I still want to try to do great things. Why? I guess doing my greatest work is FUN as long as it has some purpose today if not after I'm gone. Fun, that's it. Why do cats hunt? They enjoy it. You ever see a housecat kill a squirrel? They love to kill squirrels because they are so good at it. It's an awful lot of work for a horse to run but they do it because they like doing it. I think pleasure is the main motivation for all creatures and what they do best is usually what they enjoy best. It's not all eating shitting and fucking either. Pleasure can be quite a profound thing, especially for more intelligent animals. So fun is a good enough reason to live even if fun always has an end.

Great points! All fine and dandy until Jeffrey Dahmer comes alongs and eats you because to him that's what's most fun and valuable in life. Or what about child molesters? Like you're saying we're all just "cats" having fun!? Hey, cats eat other cats. Male lions will slaughter cubs that aren't there's, I'm sure they've been eaten too. So for you fun is riding your motorcycle around at 150 mph. For Jeffrey Dahmer fun is sitting down to a nice hot plate of kidneys and ribs. But that's ok, because we're just cats.

Ahhh...see all the sudden things get a little more complicated when you start basing everyone else "life goals" on your own. If all of what we do results in nothingness anyway, even the worst tortured children won't be suffering after they die anyway so it's all inconsequential that someone molested them then slow roasted them alive at 15 and ate them. Sorry to be so graphic, but this is the reality your saying your ok with.

* Last updated by: VicThing on 11/28/2015 @ 7:40 AM *

Grn... what can I say but keep witnessing man! Wow!

AIDS in new born babies?
But there is no way God does not exist.

The amount of death, destruction, torture, fear, hunger, and suffering perpetuated in the world today after a perfect God designed it?
But there is no way God does not exist.

Religious leaders molesting children?
But there is no way God does not exist.

Billions spent in the name of religion on the construction and maintenance of religious places of worship around the world while millions starve?
But there is no way God does not exist.

Different Gods worshiped around the world and the one you end up believing in is directly dependent on where you are born and what your parents and local society teach you?
But there is no way God does not exist.

The morally reprehensible religious acceptance of all evil and sin in the world today and the dismissing of the pain and suffering felt by the less fortunate all because it is part of Gods mysterious plan?
But there is no way God does not exist.

All the innocent people in the past and present who were/are mercilessly tortured and killed because they dare challenge or not believe the word of a particular God?
But there is no way God does not exist.

A book called the Holy Bible that explains God and his teaching but has the most ridiculous unbelievable illogical stories that also promotes killing your neighbors and slavery but no one knows who the author was?
But there is no way God does not exist.

Although God designed this complete and utter mess and therefore must be 100% responsible, he has intentionally stood by idly while it gets worse and worse every day with zero attempt at intervention?
But there is no way God does not exist.

You're forgetting one of God's covenants towards every soul is free-will. He cannot and will not control anyone, whether you're religious, evil, or otherwise. All of us have free-will to the extent of being so powerful as to deny the very existence of God himself. Think about that, God made us that powerful. I mean, God may not even be able to deny His own existence (I don't know the answer to this although I have an answer).

God will not stop someone with AIDS from fucking. God will not stop a preacher from molesting her 13 yo son. God will not stop someone from murdering. Because stopping these things would remove free-will. God may attempt to influence there actions but ultimately people have free-will.

I don't "go to church". I don't belong to any organized religion. I have a personal relationship with God through reading the Bible and prayer, mostly prayer at this point. I do not follow people when it comes to my relationship with God because no person is worth following spiritually. That is a sign to us all, plain as day, for you to witness. Do not confuse God with religion. They are NOT the same thing.

I will go this far to say that I don't necessarily know that faiths other than the Christian God are wrong. That is between God and those people.

The Yanmeister says.."I simply have wanted to try to understand why and how"..well...here's lots of 'proof'...I'd say probably most believers feel these ways at any given time.If you have 10 people looking up at the sky and saying..."It's blue"...then you have ten witnesses.If a blind person looks up...what's he/she see?.Certainly not blue.BUT,that doesn't change the witness of the other 10.It's kinda like that.People express what they 'know' to be true from their personal experience.All the conversion stories down through time have been virtually the same.

You don't see the Spirit...that doesn't mean it isn't there.I have to go back to the Bible words on this.

"The Spirit of God is as the wind,moving the Cedars of the wood"..(something close to that anyway).The point being...the Spirit moves on man,the results of that are clearly seen.I'm not talking about 'religion'.Not that 'religion' isn't somewhat viable.It is.People need to be able to be together.But the Spiritual truths most definitely transcend 'religion'.

God is not bound.He's eternal...unseeable...in everything...everywhere..throughout this universe and beyond.Timeless.Unchanging.Allmighty.He made it possible for humans to see Him and feel Him through Christ.
That's what He did.Accept or reject...sa'll good.Each person gets to choose.That's the 'fair' way.God IS fair.

"But there is no way God does not exist"....yes...there is a way God does not exist.Within each heart.It can't be proven...that he doesn't exist.People doing what they choose does not prove God doesn't exist.It only shows what man thinks about things.

If you spray a primer on a car...then cover it with a top coat..does the primer no longer exist?Just cause ya can't see it?Think about it.(or not;) )

I'll go out on a limb here...but for every ISIS killer out there...or others like them,and all the other abuses going on..there's THOUSANDS out there doing good.In the shadows...doing God's will.And his will SHALL be done.It is written.You can't escape God.Whether one chooses to think he can or not.Not even in death.God OWNS death.And beyond.Physical death is a fact...whose got the facts to prove there isn't something more after death?Unbelievers?

The truth is...there just MAY be something else.I think there is.But 'heaven' for me is NOT the ultimate 'goal'.I mean...yes..I want to see God...and my family again...and all the rest.But if that actually didn't exist or 'happen'...my life NOW is without a doubt MUCH better...how I see people.What I can do for them.To be a support for them.Trying to be a giver instead of a taker...grabbing all I can...to do what with exactly?That's pretty empty...to me anyway.IF there is a Heaven...and a reward or whatever...then that's a bonus...but IF there isn't...my life and feelings about others will be well worth anything I could come up with.And that's a FACT for me.Whether anyone else believes it or not.If I die this moment...and there IS nothing more...I'm still totally okay with how things are NOW,with me.This feeling is shared by millions.MILLIONS.If that isn't a "God thing"...IDK what is;)

All I can really say is...I didn't come up with this on my own.I didn't 'think this' into my existence.I KNOW that.Once I was 'blind'...now I see.

What's that saying..'the PROOF is in the pudding'...you can tell someone how good something is...but until you TASTE it..you really don't KNOW how good it is.And that's faith.The "God" reality is there...but you can't imagine it until you 'taste' it.Then it becomes FACT.For the individual.Once that happens..you can't truly ever go back to "I think it tastes good".You KNOW it it does.And there's NO going back.Why would you?

That'd be like trying to find a ride as good as the 14.In something less capable.It won't work.You'll never be happy with less.No matter how you try and tell yourself.."hey,this is awesome".Your heart just won't buy it.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/28/2015 @ 9:42 AM *

He meant the tallest guy named "Cliff".

Sounds a tad homo-erotic to me...

So does making a tur-duck-en but I did it and it was deliscious!

Great points! All fine and dandy until Jeffrey Dahmer comes alongs and eats you because to him that's what's most fun and valuable in life

That's an example of sociopathic behavior not normal, healthy pursuit of one's passions. I believe most people will avoid extreme antisocial behavior (evil) whether they believe in God or not.

Yup, animals do do a lot of things that would be considered sociopathic if they were done by humans. Probably a lot of things we do seem sociopathic to many animals. Oh well, different species; different rules. I still do believe pleasure is a powerful motivational force that is common to all animals from bugs to people.

.If I die this moment...and there IS nothing more...I'm still totally okay with how things are NOW,with me.This feeling is shared by millions.MILLIONS.If that isn't a "God thing"...IDK what is;)

"It's possible to have this attitude toward life even without believing in God"...yep...absolutely true Rookster.

I could only say though...what I thought 'before' wasn't actually giving me the things I have gained since I 'crossed over'.It's very different.And I mean...way back when when I first believed.I didn't continue along the 'faith' path 'the rest of my life'.I detoured plenty.But the change began way back then.The 'hope' actually never left.It's always been there since my first 'acceptance' of the God thing.That was a LONG time ago.I'm still here...in spite of myself.I KNOW this is God's love for me.It can't possibly be anything else.I tried like hell to off myself through my actions PLENTY of times along the years.And also things that I had no control over.I shouldn't be alive right now.That's a fact.

Just too many things to credit it to 'luck' or 'chance'...too many.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/28/2015 @ 1:39 PM *

Firstly sorry for my last little rant.
All you guys are good blokes but when I read patronizing condescending comments like "I feel sorry for you" I sometime lose it a bit.
I am still waiting on a response though...

So lets see here.

Vic, I did not answer your question because I already clearly had previously.
You need to read a little closer and open your mind a little.
No I do not think life is utterly pointless. Exactly the opposite.
Life is beautiful and amazing and I am so fortunate to have it.
I believe my time is here and now and there is nothing afterwards.
I do not feel the need to be remembered by anyone or anything. I also do not wish to be untrue to myself by trying to make myself believe in something that has never ever been proven to gain some kind of after life insurance when I simply do not.
I try to live to the fullest, not impact but help other people when I can, and be satisfied in myself about the person I am.
I do not need a non provable entity to do any of this.

"even the worst tortured children won't be suffering after they die anyway so it's all inconsequential that someone molested them then slow roasted them alive at 15 and ate them."
Sorry Vic but thats right up there with one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard and again religion grasping at the most innate straws.
No more to be said...

"You're forgetting one of God's covenants towards every soul is free-will. He cannot and will not control anyone, whether you're religious, evil, or otherwise."
And yet he will control letting evil people into heaven if they repent and believe.
He will control good people perishing because they do not believe.
He controls you by threats. Believe and worship or burn in hell.
He apparently knows what you think, has access to you mind, and makes his decisions accordingly.
No control huh?
Well, there goes that point.

"God will not stop someone with AIDS from fucking. God will not stop a preacher from molesting her 13 yo son. God will not stop someone from murdering."
So why the fuck do you need a God like that who obviously does nothing???
What an absolute joke.
Again, if you saw a 15 year old being tortured and killed and it was in your power to stop it, would you?
If your answer is no, fuck you.
Thats exactly what your God does every single day.

"I have a personal relationship with God through reading the Bible"
"I have to go back to the Bible words on this."
The Bible. Another non provable aspect of religion that has more holes in it that Swiss cheese. It is bewildering to a non believer that any time or credence is given to this piece of text that can be ripped to shreds logically over and over and over.
Dont start me on this because it is bewildering.
But you religious only pick out the good stuff and ignore the silly stuff so its convenient huh?
A classic religious trait.

"the Spirit moves on man,the results of that are clearly seen"
No they are not clear at all. As a matter of fact it doesn't get any muddier. You see, I don't, some are not sure, some want to, but one thing is 100% clear. Yet again not one piece of proof.
A very foolish comment.

"If you spray a primer on a car...then cover it with a top coat..does the primer no longer exist?Just cause ya can't see it?"
Another really completely pointless analogy. If I put primer on I know its there. If I forgot and want to double check I can scratch the top coat and see the primer underneath. Proof positive. Cant scratch the top coat back to God though huh???

"I'll go out on a limb here...but for every ISIS killer out there...or others like them,and all the other abuses going on..there's THOUSANDS out there doing good.In the shadows...doing God's will."
This is where I get really angry.
How dare you give credit for good to God and bad to man!
On what right do you base this?
You said it yourself. We are all made free so we are responsible for all bad, AND ALL GOOD!
You religious God believers cant have it both ways as you choose to do when its convenient.
Either God is responsible for both good and bad (and if thats true he is not a God) or we humans are.
You make your choice.

"The truth is...there just MAY be something else."
At last a reasonable comment. I admit there maybe a God and I am wrong. But I dont believe so on the evidence or non evidence provided and I will not bend to society when they try to persuade me otherwise.
I am a human being. With a mind of my own, with morals, with choice and with questions. You cant logically answer the questions with proof? Then forget about it. I am out.

"But if Heaven actually didn't exist or 'happen'...my life NOW is without a doubt MUCH better...how I see people.What I can do for them.To be a support for them.Trying to be a giver instead of a taker...grabbing all I can...to do what with exactly?That's pretty empty...to me anyway"
HOORAY GREEN. HOORAY...
Now we are getting somewhere.
Except for the religion thing, you and I are the same. The difference is I see no relation to what you wrote here and God or religion...
They are unrelated in my book.

"All I can really say is...I didn't come up with this on my own.I didn't 'think this' into my existence."
Yes you did my friend. Yes you did. You and your consciousness, your morals and your choice.
Dont short change yourself.
Ever.

"And that's faith.The "God" reality is there...but you can't imagine it until you 'taste' it."
Now we are back to the imaginary again now.
Shame. I thought we were getting somewhere.
If God is so great, if God is so pure, if God is the only way, and if God is everlasting life, then why cant we all "taste it"?
Why only some?
Why is there nothing concrete to confirm this taste?
Sounds like a pathetic little game he developed to me.

"Just too many things to credit it to 'luck' or 'chance'...too many."
The universe as far as we know is infinite. But what we do know is trillions of trillions of trillions of things happen in it every second. So say the chances of luck or chance is 10 billion to one. Heck lets make it 100 billion to one. Compared to the trillions and trillions and trillions, not bad odds for the odd miracle huh?
It is not God providing luck or chance, it is simply life and the related odds.

The sooner people get over attributing all good to God and all bad elsewhere, and take responsibility for both themselves, what a wonderful world this would be...

* Last updated by: yannih on 11/28/2015 @ 3:48 PM *