Ive been told weight loss, and strengthening core is the way to relieve, key word relieve symptoms. Thanks Green.
Appreciate it man. I am constantly in pain, most of it, is manageable and I work through it, but when it hits like this it brings me to my knees.
Mad love boys,
W

Swim to strengthen core. No land exercise. Sit up more like a set of [heli] shims under the handlebars. Stops the arm numbing, contours your arch with less stress. Ride to relieve pain. Sleep in that zero gravity chair. Lose weight... Not that it will help. Decline a 3-stake. The upper and lower take the stress, blowout [years] down the road. What are the stats with the gut pulled out and off to the side, the back open too, here come the screws? 60/40. 60% say more pain or no gain, 40% some relief. That's your average fuse followup says the spinal institute bla-bla dot org?

I told my cousin's husband not to go under a knife. He found relief. But now I hear it was just for awhile. So, he had a few years of relief I guess? It's one big crap shoot you open the body.

Man. I see that. I know I have back trouble coming is why this opened my eyes. If I stay on top of that core now, maybe not so bad later??? Hope not. I hate swimming. Oh well, what the hell, take the kids swimming, no water wings for dad! :))

I swim, run, and push ups and core exercises, and about twice or three times a year she flares like this...it hurst every day, but it blows up 2 or 3 times. Some would say, I'm lucky. Either way, in two weeks, once this clears, I will be cracking that throttle again...
Thanks Hubs, avoiding the knife as long as I can.
Mad love C
Mad love Green
W

Most people are terrified of getting their back opened up...horror stories abound.The best thing is to get a sports surgeon...a guy(or gal)who is totally into you getting better.Not someone advising against surgeries.Now..I don't mean that as a down to anyone here...I don't.Best thing I ever did for my back...and I also told a few customers at work about the procedure...they had the same deal as me.They went for it...now....totally well and happy...no pain.You have to look into your local DR's that do this sort of thing...research em...find the one that sounds the most professional...go see em.

Once the disc has bulged...it's too late to repair it.All you can do is try to deal with it...the fibrous tissue of the disc won't allow it to reintegrate back where it was....the outside casing.The inside is gel.There's very little blood flow to the disc itself..virtually none...which really keeps it from healing.Like cartilage.Same blood flow/healing deal.The younger DR's that are doing these surgeries really are very competent.Most of em truly understand the 'risks' involved...and they're extremely careful.Unfortunately...when you have this problem...and you put it off...what sometimes ends up happening is...the nerve(s)gets 'almost' permanently damaged from the bulge and all.If you can relive the bulge pressure early enough...your chances of a painless operation and result go way up.If you're not getting any numbness in your toes or that area...you haven't reached the 'damage' area on your spine/nerves yet....that's good.Getting disctectomies for this problem is risky...you can develop scar tissue in there...which can be almost as bad as the bulge itself.You don't want that...that's why I say...get a fusion as soon as you can.The discs will not repair themselves....no matter what you do.

I had mine 15 years ago...and had it not been for a few bike wrecks...it would most likely be TOTALLY pain free...but the pain is so minor...and not there all the time...very mild.acceptable.VERY.There were times I thought(before the fusion)that I'd seriously be crippled...that's how bad it was...horrible.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/2/2013 @ 8:43 PM *

Hey, fantastic info and read Grn. Thank you for that one man. Very good.

Most people that have the successful results don't ever say anything about it...they're just happy to be free of the ball and chain...I would NEVER advise avoiding the surgery...no way.Things have come a long way since I had mine...a LONG way.Unfortunately...the disc bulge'needs' to be in the 5mm range for most DR's to actually consider a fusion...but in the meantime...3-5mm can be excruciatingly painful...could take a few years for it to get to surgical size...that's the bummer.OR...it could bulge and rupture very quickly depending on what you are doing to your joints there.

I've seen this(and experienced it firsthand)that the worker's comp and such deals really try to avoid the surgeries...not because they go wrong...but the cost.So they run people through all these hoops...shots,electrical stimulus...chiropracters...the whole nine yards...and none of it really helps...only short term pain relief at best...VERY short term.The problem remains..and increases with use.You can't get away from that....no matter how much oxycontin you pound down.Or steroid shots.Or whatever.I hate to say it...but lots of people endure this deal cause they think the surgery is....TOO RISKY.It's not.That's a widespread myth by people who probably went right out afterwards and did exactly the same things they were doing to create the problem in the first place.If you can lose weight...that's an excellent beginning to take the load off your lower back...and ab work...lots of ab work.You can't go wrong with that.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/2/2013 @ 9:31 PM *

Geez grn, that sounds like the operation is the way to go. I totally get finding a sports doctor is key!! I can see the different focus, the sports doc is better if he recoups his athletes! Got it! Sounds like the surgery is major. May I ask you a question on recovery time??? I have two kids that totally depend on me for the sports and the dance and all of that! So I can't be in bed crappin in a bag for six weeks. If that is the cold hard fact, I need to know that is all.???
Thank you in advance grn And hub and wolf. I did not realize this lower back stuff was so common. Nice to know I ain't the only one gonna need a walker to get on my 2030 zx-17r!

* Last updated by: Cblast on 9/2/2013 @ 9:33 PM *

Nah...no walker for you!!!!Recovery with mine was...well...say...three or four days being quiet and resting up....then after that...I was able to get out of the bed and walk okay.No problem.I just went easy with the bending and such for about two weeks maybe.I didn't loll around in bed for very long...I wanted to get better.But not everyone can hear what their body is telling them.I was fortunate...I went with the flow.Didn't push hard...yet moved around and such,and didn't do any bending or twisting to speak of.Within two weeks I was back walking around and all...but no heavy lifting.I spent a night in the hospital...for observation after the surgery...but that was it.Out the next day.I could get up at home to eat and such...just had to go easy and not tear anything.Worked out okay in my case.The bone fuse took a few months to graft...the tissue around the incision and all healed pretty quickly.But the rods and bolts were in there fine...no problem...the joint wasn't about to move around any.I never worried that it wouldn't go okay...never.IDK why I didn't,but I just thought of it as just another deal....no biggie really....ignorant as I was;)Asking Christ to guide the Dr's hands(he was there when I prayed with him)kinda sealed the deal I think.And I 'told' the anesthesiologist.."don't leave me...okay?"...he assured me he would be there through the whole thing....very cool actually...the Dr was way cool...all of em...

That's the kind of team you want to find....cool people who will discuss the deal with ya and listen to ya.The good ones will.The 'others'...they 'kmow it all' and can't be questioned...not good IMO.I asked everything I could think of...he just kept saying after the decision.."you're doing the right thing...I'll take care of you,don't worry".

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/2/2013 @ 10:29 PM *

I had my L5-S1 repaired five years ago... been pain free since. Had a neurologist do the procedure.

My pappy had his L4-L5 done twice by the same guy but his disc wasn't as healthy and robust as mine; compressed to a much greater degree. He was pain free for two years but the remaining disc and mating surfaces of the vertebrae became stenotic. Finally he had a nerve block performed and now he's in good shape.

My ex-step-brother-in-law had his L3-L4 fused. They opened his belly, placed his intestines on a table, and worked on his spine from the front. It involved fixturing the two vertebrae and applying a mesh to stimulate new growth across the gap his disc was trying to maintain. I don't see him anymore so I've no idea what the long term relief aspect is.

* Last updated by: hagrid on 9/2/2013 @ 10:47 PM *

"I had my L5-S1 repaired five years ago... been pain free since"...yup...another happy ending;)Congrats Hagrid....;).

That is very important info Grn!!! People usually don't mention any of this stuff! I hear ya man. The military doctors are not quite so as well, 'patient sensitive', mostly it's 'plug that bullet hole!', kinda medical care. I am not gonna let them touch my lower back. I am going to get an outside consult with a sports medicine doctor. Terrific advice. I may not have to do this for several years yet. But it gives me the time to set it all up correctly. My lower back is f-Ed from hauling a dang machine gun all over hells half acre.

They opened his belly, placed his intestines on a table, and worked on his spine from the front.

Hey, I saw that one time, doctor that did it had an M240G scalpel, sounded Bee-rutal.

It's a crap shoot. Every time you go under you wonder what you will get after. Case in point went in for knee surgery thus March, now I am so flip thankful. Went in for heart surgery 2011 now I am so flip thankful. How long this lasts? I don't know. My back freaks me out as, once it's fucked, it is fucked and there is no coming back. Point is I need a good specialist and get myself on a wait list.
Thanks boyz!

Glad to hear it went well for you guys Green and Hagrid.
Don't now what I will do without the pain, it's like an ole' friend!
W

I'm hearin' you C. For me... my pain is a constant reminder that I'm a survivor, livin' large. Like Wolf, I get a brutal reminder ever now and then, but with all the options I wonder if the pain is just a reminder that something's not right and you should look after it, not mask it??? If it doesn't cause you pain, you'd just keep damaging it more??? Makes me wonder sometimes.

It's a crap shoot. Every time you go under you wonder what you will get after.

Wolf years ago I was hospitalized for back injury. Ambulance the works. Thought I was fin for life. 3 days later I got out. From that point I Changed How I sit how I walk, everything, got lucky for now, Twinge down my left leg gives me the warning to back off. I listen. Back pain (as you know)is like no other.

Wolf we have quite a few guys at work who live in constant pain and a few that finally broke and got the surgery. Mixed results. Out of the group, the happiest guy, is the one that went for the fusing. He was told he would have less movement with reduced flexibility, but went this route over the other guys. Watching their constant back and forth to the hospital for little repairs turned him off as their(ScarTissue)pain was never completely solved.

His surgery involved taking pieces of bone off his hips and welding to his lowerback. 6 Months afterwards, His words "why did I no do it 5 years ago I got my life back". We both had those YZ450s So I can tell you for sure he was a new man afterwards, no faking riding those beasts. Crazy Bike.

From on the outside looking in, his hard core approach versus baby repairs seemed to be the ticket. In once and out, done. Must be ten years now all still good. He also said what movement he lost minor in comparison to before and after. The other guys, well,,, the docs been in and out so many times,,,,, Mess. I feel bad for them as there pain is written on their face every day.

All I can add Bud, hang in there. O and my buddy John still uses that inverta bed.

I am ready to chamber a round in my 357 and put myself out of my misery. There is no human being I know that can go to work, drive a car under this much pain. Its beyond T'3's. Anyone a back surgeon on this here forum???

Where the hell is that costco zero gravity chair? You want relieve yes or no?

Yeah wolf my man! I use mine every morning. 6-9 minutes while my coffee cools. Watch out when ya first stand up after, I'm always a little wobbly for a few steps from joint expansion.

Have nothing to add expect I hope my buddy wolf feels better soon.

Wolf, I have been where you are at right now, I almost did it too ! Hang in there, try the chair, if that doesnt work, find a good surgeon, do research and find the best one, if you need pain meds,use them, I know you don't want to get hooked, but you can take maybe two-three a day or whatever, NO ONE should have to go through that pain, mine felt like someone was sticking a huge knife in my back, and twisting it, add to that the spasms ! And nothing I did would make it go away, they didnt even give me real pain meds, stinking ibuprofen !!!

I hope you find a way to fix it, I KNOW, it is no way to live,

Prayers for you my brother,

car-abuser

I am ready to chamber a round in my 357 and put myself out of my misery. There is no human being I know that can go to work, drive a car under this much pain. Its beyond T'3's. Anyone a back surgeon on this here forum???

Find This Guy, Not sure where he is now

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?1/22/12 4 5 5 5 I saw Dr. Hall in Toronto, ON when I was 16 after breaking four lumbar vertebrae in a acrobatics accident. He and his fellow were excited about what they found, so felt a little like a monkey obeying commands, but both were perfectly polite and he pronounced that I had a rare connective tissue disorder that he'd only ever seen in a member of his family. His approach to my options were well explained. I opted to try the breast reduction, and while he wasn't my surgeon...goddamned if it didn't work. I found out I was a whole inch and a half taller after that. There is a reason he's a celebrity physician, and I'm greatful to have seen him. Respond

?11/16/11 5 5 5 5 Dr hall seen me maybe 20 yrs ago and fix my shattered ankle that needed another bone craft..first one was done by a local doctor..when i seen Dr Hall he manage to bring me to Toronto to re operate and re do a proper bone craft..At the end of my stay i was returnred home with my cast off no need to operate..he noticed that my tibia was starting to bone craft itself wow should of had another cast for 6 to 8 week instead my family brought me my precious cowboy boots and i went home with both boots on..This special doctor make his money by operating on people..he could of operated on me but he didn't thank you so mush Dr Hall for being whoom you are.Best regards Guy Charbonneau. Respond

?10/7/11 1 1 1 1 I called Dr Halls office after seeing Market place as teh export that helps people when i called his office i was told he dosent take patients anymore that its only a office for billing. With no explanation or help on where to seak further help? Respond

?6/29/10 5 4 5 5 Dr.Hamilton Hall gave me my life back! I was unable to do anything because of the back pain I suffered. After I described what hurt he immediately knew what was wrong. I had back surgery and did the exercises as recommended and was finally painless after 4 years of suffering, seeing chiropractors and acupuncture. Nothing helped. Respond

?1/8/10 5 5 5 5 I can not say enough good about this man. He helped me return to be a functioning person again. He was kind, patient and honest about my expectations of recovery. I too am not a celebrity nor wealthy but I was treated compassionately. Respond

?7/20/08 5 5 5 5 Hamilton Hall is the reason I am walking today. I do not have enough words to thank him. I am not famous...not important...just someone who needed his help. I am forever grateful for his knowledge, skill and especially his kindness. Respond

?7/27/07 1 3 1 1 One of the most arrogant, ignorant, ****s I've ever had the mis-fortune of meeting. I waited a year and a half to see him and 3 of the 5 minute visit we had, he stood there with his hand on the door knob. Very condisending and talks to you like you're trash! Very conceded and WILL NOT give you the time of day. I'm guessing well known patients (celebrities) are treated royally. A real DICK!!!! Respond

?4/27/07 3 5 5 Very Helpful

* Last updated by: Romans on 9/4/2013 @ 3:53 PM *

Hey wolf! Call him right now!!!!!

I got ur back...
;)

I got ur back...;)

No greater gift you give than when you help others.