LOW/1. Now I know I need more time in the saddle but I have to let you all know Ivan has his $hit on point!
He has out done himself yet again!!

It was always a Given,,,,, Never had any doubts.

Infuel, did you get a chance to see Ivan ??? Very curious as to your thoughts ?????

Romans,

I know you know just letting eveyone else know....

Romans,

I know you know just letting eveyone else know....

Yes, but not having done it on my 14R, my solid guess has no real world value. Yours does.

Infuel, is making the Brock 2 Ivan switch,,,looking forward to his point of view. I know Ivan's work, to here anything else would be a shocker.

Ivan, sure wish you did the '09 ZX-6R, mine is the most fun out of all my bikes. Mother Green got this one right IMHO, great topend (for a Supersport) and decent low to midrange and the handling is sweet . Why don't you like it? Just curious.

I don't dislike them at all

I just don't bother with the 600's anymore (to purchase for R&D) because I find that there isn't much business for me with them.... I need to sell complete performance packages for it to be a worthwhile investment.

I don't even get much business for remapping them on a local level either... most kids just put a slip-on on them for sound and don't bother finishing off with proper tuning.

Most 600 owners are just buying block off plate kits and servo eliminators.... they are buying their pipes and power commanders elsewhere.

Ivan

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Back to the ZX14R....

I find that after my entire package is done on this bike, running temps are in the 160-175 range at speeds greater than 50 mph and will only climb up when sitting in traffic under 45 mph.

Once moving again above 60 mph, the bike will drop it's temp back to normal much quicker than a standard bike.... you won't get this with anyone elses ECU flash/PCV programming.... fuel mileage will also be 4-5 mpg better with my PCV/ECU programming too.

Ivan

* Last updated by: Ivan on 7/11/2012 @ 8:11 PM *

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What MPG are you averaging? Personally I am currently averaging 33.6* (*ECUnleashed Flash test bike).We all know that these bikes were not purchased to squeeze every MPG out possibly, but rather for the performance. With that being said I do go WOT quite often, have hit 183 (GPS verified), and basically do some mellow cruising on it... So with that being said, What MPG are you averaging?

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So with that being said, What MPG are you averaging?

Seno sounds like you will get a chance to ride both set ups. Should have some great input. Eager to here your thoughts.

Here are the basics to the tre.

The ECU is a numbers counter. It can count many or count a single number.
The ECU is using a math system called the binary. 8 characters make up a specific number.
The GPS is sending 1N23456 = 7 'analog signals' that if we see the concept, there are 7 math numbers to decipher.
The TRE is sending a single signal = 1 signal or a 'digital signal' meaning one.
The ECU was reading 7 gear digits in the binary system, by having so many 1's or 0's in a set of 8 to communicate.
The TRE has a high resistance and stops the moving of the 7 GPS values. Resistance stops as if hitting a wall.
The ECU was reading 8 character of numbers stated this way> 0101 1110 <in the binary system or machine speak.
The TRE is sending out the same character for every gear and the numbers now look like 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111.
The ECU sees this as no-signal/out of spec signal. So it can be something like not plugged in, shows a high resistance.
The ECU now takes action to save the engine from damage. The power is in a limp or in backup stage, not at its FULL potential.

I want to personally thank Ivan for my education that began so long ago.

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....JurASSic what?HERE's the Timing Retard Eliminator;)

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 1/21/2014 @ 12:12 AM *

Just wish my name was Grn14 and I had all the flashes and the ability to switch between then all and try them back to back. How are you doing that anyway Grn? Are you using the woolrich software to go back and forth or have you just tried them all at one point and decided to just run the cblast flash?

Another good question now that I am on the subject, how can one make an honest comparo on these setups anyway? For example if I had the complete brocks setup and I threw in the Ivan's flash, you would also need the Ivans map right? What pipe do you have? Because brocks made his tune for his pipe and Guhl flash and Ivans made his for the Akra. See my point? Almost imposible to have an honest comparo.

I do like the extra little tidbits that Ivan is focusing on with his flash like reducing engine temps, turning fans on sooner, and increasing fuel mileage in the cruising RPM's. His dyno charts speak for themselves. (For anyone that hasnt noticed, numbers aside almost everyone shows about a 13-15 hp increase whether they start out with a happy dyno or not). Throw on a set of heated grips, a corsa windscreen, your favorite flash/pipe combo, and you just created the best bike money can by? Seriously how can it get any better? Really?

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Well the Ivan controversy continues.....LMAO! Why so much hate for this guy? I've been running Ivan's setup on my '06 ZX-14 for 8 years and won't touch it, it runs flawlessly and the TRE fixed the popping on throttle roll off...good stuff! Only complaint I have with my 14 is the fuel mileage is not the best.... otherwise it is waaaaay smooth and has power everywhere. Had his setup on my '08 ZX-10R and it was also badazzz. Just my .02

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The Guhl flash DID NOT add anywhere near 13-15hp. That would be the equivalent of a head and cam package and these flashes simply do not have the ability to do that. I am racer and I can tell you with complete certainty when a change in my setup effects my e.t. by as little as half a tenth. A guy on the street can't give you that info, regardless of what he thinks.

I am racer and I can tell you with complete certainty when a change in my setup effects my e.t. by as little as half a tenth. A guy on the street can't give you that info, regardless of what he thinks.

Doesn't a change in track prep or hand/eye reaction time also effect your ET?

It appears technicians who utilize a dynamometer in conjunction with engine data retrieval are unencumbered by at least two variables which a quarter-mile elapsed time test method are constantly beset.

Based on your statement you would have us eschew performance enhancements derived from repeatable and controlled conditions and rather gravitate towards those forged solely from track data?

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I take those factors into account and can show you 10 tickets within .025 of one another for any given day that I decide to get out there and mix it up. Now swap in the flashed ECU and see how the next 10 turn out. See what I mean? I call flat out BULLSHIT on 13-15 HP. Furthermore, the mph that a bike will run on any given day will almost be an absolute. Say for instance I run 5 9.03s in a row. They will all be within 1 MPH of one another. A good indicator of horsepower is quarter mile mph. Now that we are on the same page, you see how a fair and balanced test could be applied. 5 runs with stock ECU settings and 5 runs with "WHATEVER" flash is best on that day and we compare results. MPH is consistent even if the ET is not. 9.20 @ 151 8.99 @ 151 Also for you guys that don't know.... Reaction time has absolutely nothing to do with your ET. A 10 second reaction time will have the same effect as a .005 reaction time. Also I would like to add that dynamometer technicians don't always create the best "real world" performance with on screen numbers. Mid RPM power and part throttle AFRs are just as important as that big fat peak horsepower number that everyone drools over. Track data is real data. If it doesn't translate to higher trap speed then it doesn't make more power. PERIOD.

Well the Ivan controversy continues.....LMAO! Why so much hate for this guy?

Why is my making a post about the steps to the ECU cause me to be on the list of haters? I'm a mechanic by trade so I have this solving business to do when a bike stops running. I knew a few terms about FI and noticed the book explaining a safety valve happening when a sensor fails.

I didn't ride for awhile so when I came back, I wanted the most powerful bike for my fat ass to slow it down some. Never stayed current with the bike scene, the models that came out, etc. I more left the scene altogether. Ivan pops in a 14 site and his product set a spark in my head vs. a STEP that made me think about FI more.

The engine is too simple or more, no challenge. The electrics were the same, meaning, I can hold my own using a soldering gun. But the ECU had my attention. It's like saying that jwool now comes along and it's all about the ECU. So, do I hate Justin because I'm going to school myself INNside the ECU and Ivan schooled me on the Outside of the ECU?

Where is the Ring-gHA-ding-dong-bell-HateMeter, let me show you I hate the flasher as much as the hacker. Are we on the same page yet, Pee Poles?

Any discussions Ivan and I had were more for your entertainment only. You laughed, but I was busy and about to throw one away.

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I call flat out BULLSHIT on 13-15 HP.

Study the Real world horse power #'s SAE Smoothing 5 from a Brocked out ZX14R with a Guhl Flashed ECU.

I watched that vid a few months ago and I actually have that exact E-85 tune dialed into my low power mode. What I'm saying is I didn't gain a single MPH on pump gas with stock ECU vs. Guhl ECU. That tells me that the bike isn't producing more power than it was. It's power delivery may be altered and therefore causing some sort of change in feel, but the MPH stays the same. Same MPH same HP. My best MPH ever was actually with the stock ECU. I went 155.96 and have yet to duplicate that with the flashed ECU and the cool winter air. I sent the ECU back to Don for him to check and make sure that everything was correct and sure enough he says it's fine. Hmmm.... Doesn't make more power... It's fine..... Ok I says... Now I know where that flash stands.

What I'm saying is I didn't gain a single MPH on pump gas with stock ECU vs. Guhl ECU.

Very odd, with the safety mode flashed out along with new shift points from the RPM limiter being raised should have showed you some gains ? hmmmmm indeed. Lee is up and flying once again. Click

I'm running the 2.0 Don flash and the Brock's pump track map. I shouldn't have any problems according to what Mr. Lee said. This definitely intrigues me though. I'm going to call Mr. Lee today and dig into what exactly he was seeing at the track.

"Just wish my name was Grn14 and I had all the flashes and the ability to switch between then all and try them back to back. How are you doing that anyway Grn?"...I have two ECU's...both with different flashes.They will allow a switching back and forth through the programs flashed.I run one....switch out to the next flash,then ride the same runs.I have a favorite...but they're all extremely okay.VERY good work and major props to all who flashed em;)I don't have a Brock's/Guhl flash anymore....that was fine for 'then'....but not now.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 1/24/2014 @ 12:12 PM *

I sent the ECU back to Don for him to check and make sure that everything was correct and sure enough he says it's fine. Hmmm.... Doesn't make more power... It's fine..... Ok I says... Now I know where that flash stands.

On Guhl's site, the flash list does say 'more hp.' That means that Smoke should have bettered his stock times.

My best MPH ever was actually with the stock ECU. I went 155.96 and have yet to duplicate that with the flashed ECU

156mph is close enough [potential] in my book. That means the bike had to have had the same effect as Smoke's? Mav, you banged thru both maps in the same mode of F-Off [is my assumption] all stock?

So that means whatever problems Smoke was having, you Romes, you and Smoke banged heads, figured out to layer over the low or limp map so if it intervened, the cell would hit the Full cell anyway? So linear it is. It still meant that Smoke was back at his 'normal ET,' and when I say ET and normal, he bettered his stock ET having it flashed, meaning, the better 1/4 mile number is a flashed one. Correct?

If that is true, then where is Mav in all this?

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You see where I'm at Hub? Frustrated as hell... I truly think that the Guhl flash is the source of all that grief that I went through last summer and have honestly never fully resolved. Better air during the winter contributed to my new personal best ET, but my mph never returned. This means that when the heat returns I will have the same deficit to deal with. I KNOW that my bike makes LESS power now than it did before the flash. Now granted I have learned much in the way of launching this beast since those days and this is why my ET continued to drop. Now recently I saw a large variance in 1/8 mph after a seemingly lack luster launch and I may have inadvertently stumbled upon a clue as to what is going on. I trapped 129.68 mph through the 660 with an unusually slow 1.56 60'. I normally cut 1.51-1.52 60's and see around 125 mph. This tingles my spidey senses and leads me to suspect that when I launch softer the ECU isn't immediately throwing the safety map. My secondaries are removed, but the safety map is deeper than those blades alone. Another oddity during that run is that bike only back halfed 3.12 with a 23.23 mph gain TERRIBLE!!! A 5.87 1/8 should translate into better than a 8.99 on this bike. Someone please tell me if I'm wrong. I would actually love to be wrong at this point so I can get some sleep at night.

My secondaries are removed, but the safety map is deeper than those blades alone.

The R's 2012 brochure said that the big3 use the standard 2-interventions: kawi introduces 3. So when you hit the safety-maps, the kill is ign/sub/fuel pressure. Std was more first gen matching the big3's ign/sub. The R is now a 2nd gen due to this, the rod length, frame change, etc.

You see where I'm at Hub? Frustrated as hell...

I'm in the same camp. Don's typing in cells or cut/paste cell blocks in said maps, he bought/wrote a program for it. That may not be the same layout as Justin's program he has designed. I'm not about to flash my only ECU, come to find out: I'm in the same boat as a Guhl map, meaning, a Grn-rejection notice. Then you have this...

...but they're all extremely okay.

That to me says, 'no change if only slight.' And then there's...

... I don't have a Brock's/Guhl flash anymore....that was fine for 'then'....but not now.

That to me says, "I think it's back to stock or better than the B/Guhl was?"

Looks frustrating, doesn't it, Mav?

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