Interested in anyone's experience with adding stainless braided brake lines to an ABS 14R.

After front and rear braided lines were added to my bike, I found when braking hard with the rear brake a solid pulsing was felt through the brake peddle that wasn't there before the change (rear pulse only and not felt on front).

After enquiring what it was to the guys who installed the braided lines, I wad told it was the ABS kicking in.

Trouble it is very pronounced (again, rear only).

Anything to worry about?
Any ideas or feedback?

* Last updated by: yannih on 5/19/2015 @ 6:11 AM *

Don't know if this will help or not, but I changed my rear brake line to braided on my non ABS bike and felt no change whatsoever.

Must be the increased pressure. I believe SS lines are a lot smaller on the inside. You have the MC making the same pressure but less space to hold it in and less give in the walls of the line. Now why would that trigger ABS if the tire was not slipping?

I think your original rubber lines were dampened the pulsation by expanding slightly.
Your new nifty stainless lines do NOT expand hence the pulsing.

Thanks capt10ed,
Exactly what the guys who installed the braided lines said.

But I added this thread as I haven't read anything like this from the guys who have installed these and wanted all to be aware if they were considering this modification.

And maybe someone might know of what I might be able to do to reduce or stop this effect?

* Last updated by: yannih on 5/24/2015 @ 2:36 PM *

I found when braking hard with the rear brake a solid pulsing was felt through the brake peddle that wasn't there before the change

Your description sure sounds ABS. Encase it's Not

Test For You. Ride the bike around and Do Not use the Rear Brake. When you stop the bike proceed to touch the rear rotor. If the rotor is hot we will move forward with the possible issue.

Or do like me and use NO Brakes....EVER..... AAAAAAAAAGHHHH!!! Crash- splinter- tinkle.....

Mad

Romans you think his rear disc is dragging because it's warped?
since it was fine before the installation of the stainless lines
i would not think it's a possibility.
but can't hurt to check.

Romans you think his rear disc is dragging because it's warped?
since it was fine before the installation of the stainless lines
i would not think it's a possibility.
but can't hurt to check.

No I don't think it's warped mainly because Yannih made no mention of issues in his post prior to the Brake Line change. Also Kawi Brake Lines on the ABS 14R are Not all that bad. Most can't tell the difference after change.

I think Yannih may have small amount of Air in the Brake Line. When air gets hot it expands just enough to put light pressure on the Rotor causing it to heat up slightly. In Two cases now I have noticed 14s with dis coloring in the rear rotor.

Both times under further investigation I found the lines had been changed and there was Air in the back bleeder. Some mechanics don't spend enough time bleeding the lines. Even more still may not know the rear Caliper has Two Bleeders. The inside Bleeder may get over looked as your hand must enter through the wheel and it is very hard to see.

Simple check, Look for Fluid inside the rubber cover of the inside caliper bleed screw. If clean and Dry, my bet is this inside bleeder has Air. Not allot but some. Rear brake pedal not as hard as it was ? Is this transmitting a different feel to the rider ? No way to tell over the Net. But Hot rotors definitely have a different feel. Yannih's description will tell all.

Yannih this is just one possibility. I Don't mean to put down your mechanic even if that's the way it reads. Anyway hope this helps you find the issue.

Cracking rundown Romans.
Thankyou.
Makes sense. I will check and advise.

Romans, when I was considering this mod, you advised it was not a 5 minute job meaning you have these upgraded lines and I'm assuming you don't have this issue?
Which means something isn't right and the guys who installed the lines didn't do so correctly.
Yet again, a Harry Half Job...

It seems to me that this bike is far too well designed for something like this to happen. And if it was an issue when adding these updated lines there would have been far more posts advising the problem.

So don't worry about putting down my mechanics. If I don't do the work myself there is ALWAYS something not right.
Trouble is I am very limited in what I can do due to my limited technical knowledge.

But man this site has helped me in that regard!

Romans, when I was considering this mod, you advised it was not a 5 minute job meaning you have these upgraded lines and I'm assuming you don't have this issue?

No Yannih Zero issues, but I'm slow and take my time with the bleeding. Pesky bubbles can sometimes be pain to get out. Pumping Air Bubbles Down to bleed is our doom. Little bubbles only want to go up. Can't blame them Lol

You guys on this site are amazing...

Romans, just got home.
Checked under the cover of the rear outside caliper bleed screw.
Obvious remnants of brake fluid.
Checked under the cover of the rear inside caliper bleed screw.
Dry as a Nuns...

So they obviously haven't bled the rear inside caliper bleeder and there is still air in there.

Back to the shop I go!

Thanks Romans.
Champion.

* Last updated by: yannih on 5/21/2015 @ 4:05 AM *

You guys on this site are amazing...

On Line Family.

So they obviously haven't bled the rear inside caliper bleeder and there is still air in there.
Back to the shop I go!
Thanks Romans.

Champion.

Yannih online this is just something to look at. By no means does this mean it's the problem. Just a place to start. So don't be too hard on the dealer.

Checked under the cover of the rear inside caliper bleed screw.
Dry as a Nuns...

Yannih get your wife or buddy to push down Hard and crack bleeder slow, if tiny bubble pops out first you have got something.

Afterwards.

When finished spray with Brake wash or cleaner of your choice. I use electronic spray wash. With straw I spray inside the nipple and rubber boot . This prevents Brake fluid from dripping on your Rims later. If you see spots slightly faded on your Black Rims means it has already happened. Life

Taking bike back to dealer takes Allot of time. No Need. I'm surprised Rook does not have a How to Post. Or maybe he does. That is most definitely his calling. Could not ask for more detail. Guys here could maybe post a link for you.

Give it a shot

Thanks again Romans.

Rook does have a tutorial (was there ever any doubt) which clearly explains the bleeding process.
But interesting, he uses the outside rear caliper bleeder only and not the inside one?

Brake and Clutch Fluid Bleed and Purge

* Last updated by: yannih on 5/21/2015 @ 1:45 PM *

The inside Bleeder may get over looked as your hand must enter through the wheel and it is very hard to see.

Rook does have a tutorial (was there ever any doubt) which clearly explains the bleeding process.
But interesting, he uses the outside rear caliper bleeder only and not the inside one?

I think I make mention of the inner bleeder but to tell you the truth, I overlooked it the first few times I bled and had no issue. BUT then again, I don't have ABS either so maybe my inner caliper DOES drag a little.

Thanks for the tidbit Romes. I will have to edit that in to the tutorial and next time I bleed the rear brake (which will be soon) I will bleed both the inner and outer caliper.

When finished spray with Brake wash or cleaner of your choice. I use electronic spray wash. With straw I spray inside the nipple and rubber boot . This prevents Brake fluid from dripping on your Rims later. If you see spots slightly faded on your Black Rims means it has already happened. Life

Can't say exactly where it comes from (nipple or threads) but I have noticed seapage collecting around the rubber ring that holds the cap to the nipple. It eventually stops after torquing the bleeder a tiny bit more but the residue will eventually eat away at the paint under the ring on the front mastercylinder. The rear caliper is coated with a pretty tough ceramic or something. I don't think it would be effected by brake fluid. The wheel would. I use water only to flush away brake fluid that drips because I am afraid brake cleaner will damage paint too. Maybe water first and then a few quick bursts of brake cleaner wiped up immediately. I'm guessing brake cleaner is mostly acetone judging by how fast it evaporates. Acetone is sometimes used as a varnish remover so ...your call. Probably best to use with caution on new stuff. Check the label, normal precautions.

I agree with Romans, you can bleed the brakes on your own. I wouldn't bother to bring it back unless they let you watch them do the work. LOL you will become such a PITA they will want you to start doing all of your own work! If you just do the inner caliper, that would be a good start. After you've done it a few times, it's easy.

I DO NOT recommend the MightyVac for bleeding. It did not develop sufficient suction for me last winter which was a big disapointment. Might have been the cold. I will try again in the warm and see how it does.

"you become such a PITA"

Fucking A I am a PITA when I pay top dollar for a job to be done on my bike by Kawasaki experts and they don't get it right.
Again. And again. And again.
I will always make them fix their shortcomings.
Get it right first time for the agreed price and PITA doesn't come into the equation!

I do whatever work I feel comfortable with on my bike and it's always 100%.
But there are things I'm not comfortable with and these go to the dealer.

As I have said many times. I would make the best and worst mechanic.
Best because my work would have a sense of pride and always be 100% as if I was working on my own bike.
Worst because it is not uncommon for me to do something 3 times over to get the right result therefore taking far too long to do required work.

But you and Romans are right.
Things like bleeding I should be doing myself...

* Last updated by: yannih on 5/22/2015 @ 11:21 PM *

Latest update.

Took the bike back to the dealers and explained the problem and how the inside rear caliper had not been bled.

The head mechanic took the bike for a ride.

They then re bled both inside and outside rear caliper bleeds.
Same deal.
They then changed the rear brake fluid completely.
Same deal.
They advised the solid pulse when hitting the rear brake hard had to be the ABS kicking in.
They based this on no pulsing with light or medium braking.

I left the dealer and decided to take Romans and Rooks advise and give the rear caliper a good solid bleed myself as a double check.

I did this thanks to Rooks great tutorial but did both inside and outside rear bleeds.
I am very confident that there is no air in the system as I did both several times while topping up the resoviour and ensuring I never let the fluid level go lower than the bottom level.

Unfortunately no resolution.

Any ideas?

I am unsure why I have this issue when it seems that all others that have added these SS braided brake lines to a Gen2 with ABS have not.

Or is it that these Gen2 models were all non ABS?

* Last updated by: yannih on 5/24/2015 @ 2:34 PM *

No further ideas here gentleman?
Am I resigned to just living with this?

Again no issue with light or medium rear braking, but a nasty mechanical uneven pulse through the brake pedal with heavy rear braking.

I hate it when something isn't 100% right with my bike but have no idea what to look at next...

My only guess would be that you have exceptionally high quality SS lines that are actually creating a noticeable improvement in braking performance. In other words, if you didn't have ABS, you'd be locking the back wheel with this line. The ABS sensor does not care if you have air in the system that causes reduced fluid pressure or if you have smaller ID, harder lines that cause increased fluid pressure. All the ABS sensor knows is that the wheel is locking when you brake hard now. Wether that's caused by a slick road surface or a stronger brake, the ABS will let off the brake for you. JM Hope that's what it is because that is a plus, not a minus. Just will take some getting used to.

* Last updated by: Rook on 5/24/2015 @ 11:51 PM *

One test I can think of would be to carry a heavy passenger and apply the rear brake. I would expect it might have LESS of a tendency to activate the ABS; the additional weight increasing pressure between the road and the tire while reducing loss of contact from rear end lift at the same time. If the ABS efect is reduced carrying a heavy load over the rear wheel, I'd be confident that this is just a case of much improved rear brake performance. If no difference, .....might not be a good test...maybe a heavy passenger is not enough to effect the braking. You might want to investigate disabling the ABS and see if you are actually locking the rear when you brake hard. Heck, you know it's possible. The Gen 1 will lift up and/or lock if you brake hard enough even with OEM lines.

Hey Rook, I'm pretty much 100% sure its the ABS kicking in due to the superior new brake lines locking the rear wheel earlier than before as you say.

But what I don't understand is why the normally relatively smooth ABS correction is not happening here and it is such an aggressive pulse?

More annoying than anything else as you have to hit the lever fairly hard to make it happen.

Plus Romans was saying he doesn't have the issue and he changed to SS lines as well?

Stumped...

De-energize the ABS system and see if you still get the feedback from the pedal.

Thanks Hagrid.
Sorry to sound simple but how does one do that?

The pump is probably on a fuse in the fuse block. If so, yank the fuse.