So ive got my engine apart and I am in the process of sending off my case to get replated. Ive been going over each part of my engine and Ive got a question... When inspecting the rods i pulled off the old bearings and there is what seems to be wear UNDER the bearings. I tried cleaning the surface with brake cleaner and it didnt work....so its not left over lube. The crankshaft doesnt show any signs of wear. My bike is a rebuilt engine so im thinking the previous builder just through in crappy rods.

What do you guys think?

Also, when selecting the bearing size (blue, brown, black) the service manual tells you to reference the markings on the rods and crankshaft. Rod markings are easy enough to find but what exactly am i looking for on the crank? Ditto with the crank bearings... Markings on the case are easy enough to understand but its the markings on the crank i cant properly identify.

Manual also says to plastigage each bearing but how am i supposed to torque down everything properly when the bolts are not supposed to be loosened/then retorqued??? Sorry for the silly question but i am having trouble understanding this.

* Last updated by: Fazer on 8/19/2014 @ 4:05 PM *

Holy shit! Is that a thought? Doesn't look right to me, but I've only dealing with con rods (sb chevy's at that) a couple times in my life. No idea really if you should use them again.

I assume you aren't going through the process of replating your engine for fun, but because there were issues. This might just be one of them.

The problem with my bike is that it was built from bits and pieces of other bikes so it might have been there all along... Or it might be a symptom. Clutch was fried but that happened pre-turbo anyways.

* Last updated by: Fazer on 8/19/2014 @ 4:11 PM *

The inside of the rods, and presumably the rod caps as well, should not look like that. It's clear that these have had the bearings spun in them. Generally that's caused by the bearing seizing on the crankshaft.

But as long as the inside of the rods and caps is not distorted and measures within spec, it probably will not be an issue. But I'd not re-use rods like this, so this would leave me wondering what other shortcuts might have been taken on a prior rebuild.

Spun bearings was my first thought. But it was kind of hard for me to believe that in dissassembly all the bearings would've still be aligned properly. Or that there weren't other issues, such as severe knocking.

My ohter thought was severe overheating. Which if the bike was turbo charged is a possibility.

I suppose the big question is are they savable? I dunno, I'd probably say they'd need magnafluxed to see if there's any cracks or whatever, or depending on if they are gouged if it would take too much to keep them servicable.

My guess is by the time you get a bunch of machining done you could probably pay for a set of good used rods.

* Last updated by: VicThing on 8/19/2014 @ 6:07 PM *

Fazer said:
The problem with my bike is that it was built from bits and pieces of other bikes so it might have been there all along

jwh20 said:
The inside of the rods, and presumably the rod caps as well, should not look like that. It's clear that these have had the bearings spun in them. Generally that's caused by the bearing seizing on the crankshaft.

But as long as the inside of the rods and caps is not distorted and measures within spec, it probably will not be an issue. But I'd not re-use rods like this, so this would leave me wondering what other shortcuts might have been taken on a prior rebuild.

I agree with jwh20, it shouldn't look like that. If you are going to do the job yourself, make sure to get the mark off the connecting rod and the mark off the crank, then select the correct bearing with the combination of the rods and crank coding. Also measure the crankshaft crankpin diameter.

You should use a bore gauge and a 1"-2" mic first, before you use plastigauge on the connecting rods. Rod big end out of roundness is very common and is probably the cause of most bearing failures. If you use plastigauge to just measure the oil clearance top and bottom you will probably never detect it.

I am surprised you didn't install Falicon or Carillo rods, they are a wise investment for any high performance engine.

.

* Last updated by: KoflaOlivieri on 8/19/2014 @ 6:47 PM *

Thanks guys! Ya im going to put a set of wossner rods on order friday.

Kolfa, the service manual points to the areas on the crank where the markings should be... However what do the marking look like? I 3/5 points have no markings at all... The #3 & #4 postions have dabs of yellow paint. Are those the markings im looking for???

I 3/5 points have no markings at all... The #3 & #4 postions have dabs of yellow paint. Are those the markings im looking for???

The problem with my bike is that it was built from bits and pieces of other bikes so it might have been there all along

Yes. But if I were you, since your bike was built from bits and pieces, I would manually measure everything with the proper tools and not follow any color coding.

* Last updated by: KoflaOlivieri on 8/19/2014 @ 7:21 PM *

Regarding Plasigauge, it is very vague. I used it on my camshafts when they were out and it's pretty--- ehhh...speculative? It gives a rough idea. ...but yeah, how do you measure it if you are not supposed to re-torque the caps?

See last three pics on this thread for Plasigauge use. I might try to get it to stick withiut the ap of grease. That might make it easier to read. All the stuff is is a string of wax extruded to an exact diameter. Still, varies in thickness after squashed---but you get some idea of where you're at.

http://www.zx14ninjaforum.com/messages.cfm?threadid=0E2422F2-D56B-84E2-17C83193AA717537

See the center groove in the big end thrust side? Any of those areas blue in color or polished as in silver and pretty? Stand the rods up so we can see a color blue or not. Shoot the inserts closer. Or, does that galling look spun or did you know the history of the first rebuild?

I'm going to what? Go back to stock or turbo it?
I have how many miles on the crank?
I have .0019" as my tightest number.
I have questionable rods and if spun they are junk.
I have to see the side of the rod to see if that is just bang transfer or we spun bearings.
I have a worn crank and I want a tight rod so of course I'm going to use blue straight across.
I don't check plasticrap. I oil it up, spin it, pull on it and if it's nice in the hand it passes inspection.
I don't plasishit with a used crank.

Tear that oil pump down. See what went thru that guy to determine what the rods had to eat out that hole.

Fazer,
I'd talk with Harry and ask him about what engine components he used to build this motor. If this bike is built from sourced parts from different machines, I'd want to know what went into your 14. If Harry stands by his workmanship and your direction is to rebuild the Turbo, maybe he should step up and help you. He built the bike, you suffered a catastrophic incident, if he is worth his salt, (hope he is) he should be helping you now.
My 0.02Cents
Sorry to hear this news, props that you are taking this on.

Thanks for the help so far everyone.

Just so I understand since this part is still unclear...

Crankshaft bearings - the markings on the case are clear... My case does not have the "o" 's but the crank markings is where i get confused... There are no markings at all on 3/5 journals but 3 & 4 have a small dab of yellow paint. Is that the marker i am looking for? The service manual isnt very clear on what i am looking for. Like it says "1" .... Am i actually looking for a #1???

Next question. When selecting bearings do all the crankshaft bearings have to be the same colour? Or can i have 3 blues and 2 blacks????

Sorry if these are silly questions but

* Last updated by: Fazer on 8/22/2014 @ 6:36 PM *

You can have any color you want as long as they match the case bore and your journal in question.

Your big end bearings were definitely spun. You're lucky you tore down before a rod gave you a sneak peek into your crankcase.

Unless your reinstalling replacement OEM rods, cranks, and cases... colors are of little value to you. You need 1-2" mikes, a 1-2" bore mike, and a zero to 1" point mike for measuring the thickness of bearing inserts.

There will be math involved.

* Last updated by: hagrid on 8/22/2014 @ 7:06 PM *

http://shbox.com/1/spun1.jpg

This does not take into account when splash occurs, that's oil out of the side of the rod and journals. So if spit were to happen, that spits up chunks to the piston and there is spitupuke looking cylinder walls and piston skirts with slap embedded in it as does what a insert does, but only thinner/softer. How fuckedup is that engine? Any more photos? I'd stop and think about thi$.

I am one crank journal. Left side I am reusable. Right side I am spun out of tolerance as you can see my step in the middle. What journal do I look like the most? Say all like the left but one> buy a crank.

Hag spun a looks like it from here too, so I would not use the rods. Now the crankcase. We spin a case half that looks like the conrod half? My insert is going to drop down just like that rod's tolerance, you drop that tolerance do the math. It says I do not drop out of the journals by ".0003" is how I look at it. WOW! USE I$ fucked! Between the rods and now the crank is in question, I'd find a crasher without case side damage or there is your bent crank to stator.

How to read the rod/case/crank.
0: That rod with the circle, that will show a zero which says, 'the rod has an "0" ...'
None:... OR NOT on that conrod side is now pick a side*.
1: Whyou, you simple truth table you! Eye am going to fuck you up and confuse your ass-is no you're not. Look how I can combo a 0-0 across the board. If I use 0: and None: they are my rod codes. I just want to screw with your head, oh look, why they used a 1 to combo out the crank to case codes. It's the same, why how did that confuse my X to Y, I oughta... Z book is not confusing after all to begin wit. An man, if the book confuses you, just think how I keep you in the dark you don't listen LOL.

*Caution! Note rod position. Why? I have an offset small end bearing like a forward slash kind goes like this. If I did not have the offset, the rod would stop at TDC. With the rod ahead of the piston, see how it can fall forward / past TDC? So it is part of the assembly to know the rod position. Forward slash my rods. (That's for you, Rook - engine theory)

Signed,

Price [sounds like it's about to match a plug-in-$$] of rods/crank/gaskets/oil pump... Did he check the... ah, never mind.

NOLTT

Factory Tolerances: We have a 51/49 chance of squeezing you between my cheeks and taking a read.
Palzteashit: Oh yeah, you have some soft tissue and I'll leave a mark.

Factory Tolerances: Lucky for me I have the book I don't need your ass just yet.
Palzteashit: Yeah, you've been wiping your ass for a long time and you know when tight is tight wit nut.

Factory Tolerances: Oh go fuk cure self, self has enough hand massaging I chase your tight butt by book.
Palzteashit: Yeah? Well, when I'm a worn out used asshit-0-pile, you'll come looking for me.

Factory Tolerances: Between U is me trying to keep one stretch for stretch are my nuts is once is enough.
Palzteashit: Yeah, and your buddy is getting a stretch too; don't forget who's attached there.

Factory Tolerances: So when I use you is when I run and mix colors. So black is tight and the next insert
Palzteashit: Yeah, turns into a perfect circle. So now you need me to figure out half is this side is me.

Factory Tolerances: And half is me being squeezed for how many times are you going to stress the nuts?
Palzteashit: Ass long as you keep squeezing cheeks to find that sweet spot no matter the insert color.

Factory Tolerances: Yeah, butt I'm brand new parts and that's where the parts go right together.
Palzteashit: Who says I'll listen turtle's-hit.

Factory Tolerances: Did you hear what the feeler gauge pack said to the side clearance?
Palzteashit: No, wad?

Factory Tolerances: Keep feeding blades on both sides so I don't kink on the torque spec, stay put, you winding up my nuts.
Palzteashit: I'm going to spray wd40 on the halfcap side so I have a clean release. I'm going to use the old parts and the color is wiped off so I can matchit anyway, here comes the squeeze.