That was until a forum member was revving his bike to Redline In neutral. In his garage no less. Then I realised explaining things like this can go very wrong. And they did. Bike to the shop.

Setting TPS, I don't see that it's necessary to keep throttle open longer than a fraction of a second. It probably won't go higher than 6000~7000 there either. Don't quote me on this but I think the LCD-200 can do it without running the engine. I'll have to read my own tutorial to find that one out.

This is why I never tell people anything is easy unless it really is easy like putting air in a tire. Most things take me many times longer than what people say it should take me. That's ok. I haven't busted anything yet either.

I don't know buddy. This could be allot tougher than you think. Very Crude above but I'm keeping it simple. I know you and you will do your research. Will make for a good read. I will help if I can but all my timing map pics are locked up in photo bucket.

Damn. This was exactly what I was hoping to get out of you. A timing map cell by cell. You mentioned a curve such as would be plotted into the SB6 and I will program my Ignition Module as such for NA. I'd sure like to get the whole grid filled in as precisely as possible. Oh well, at least I know its not available for now.

Which is why I always told you Rook to pull timing before you spray that bike.

When playing with timing maps best results can be achieved with short term and long term data logging info coming from knock sensors. which we don't have. UGH !

If doing a thousand foot burn out at 150mph is your thing have at it.

* Last updated by: Rook on 2/21/2018 @ 9:05 PM *

I'd be willing to pay one Photobucket fee to get that timing map if you think you have what I'm after to fill all the cells of the ignition module. LOL If you're holding out on me for some reason, I totally wouldn't be upset with you. Secrets are secrets. While speaking to Ivan, I did bring up the timing curve you suggested and there was a lengthy pause. I think he thought you gave me all the exact numbers which wouldn't sit right with him of course. He doesn't give that out. If you want to keep your hard work secret too, I understand that.

SO, speaking of Ivan he suggested a TRE to just eliminate the retard for NA use. It also would lock in a single gear map so that nitrous adjustments would be consistent in every gear.

Does this sound like a good plan? Or do you think advancing in some areas in addition to retard elimination is desirable? We're talking NA here, not NOS.

* Last updated by: Rook on 2/21/2018 @ 9:20 PM *

I'd be willing to pay one Photobucket fee to get that timing map if you think you have what I'm after to fill all the cells of the ignition module.

Isn't like 300 bucks ??? No Need, I will just tell you. Your money nor anyone else's is what I'm after. Sold flashes cheaper than anyone else just to break even.

If you're holding out on me for some reason, I totally wouldn't be upset with you. Secrets are secrets.

Lol, that would be the day. I only tell the truth and offer another way to look at things so as you guys can smell the bull shiters. Some people are willing to believe anything. I, or what I should say "we" help point the masses in the right directions. What some are willing to believe we have no control over.

Rook, You must remember all the C'Blast flash talk. "Miracle Flash". Took me minutes to decode it lol. All it was second gear fuel map pasted into all four cyclinder fuel cells. I pointed as many as I could to the truth. Most would not listen. Made no difference my conscience was clean. With that being said, i took a beating to post the truth. You must know I will step forward with no secrets.

While speaking to Ivan, I did bring up the timing curve you suggested and there was a lengthy pause.

Rook when I first started playing with timing maps Ivan got me started. His Neutral lock with timing advance map was brilliant. Ivan never did enough credit for that. He Cured the Gen1 stumble, cured the Gen 1 back fire, Made the timing advance maps useable. Yup I loved it. And I posted it, told all that would listen. I gave him the credit he deserved.

Now I talked to Ivan about Nos and Boost way back then(2007)when I was growing out of stock horsepower. Ivan would have no part of power adders. Feel free to ask him.

From here I was on my own. I tried Everything you could ever think of. So I know what works. My Boost Timing Maps Are oF My Own Design. My timing Flash Maps Are of My own design. I play it safe. I have never blown a motor. Not many who play here can say that. For which I'm proud. AND I SHARE ALL, FREEEEELY.

SO, speaking of Ivan he suggested a TRE to just eliminate the retard for NA use. It also would lock in a single gear map so that nitrous adjustments would be consistent in every gear.

I ran my first boosted ZX14 Exactly that way. Made 272hp, never blew up. EVER ! All stock Motor. No Springs, No thicker gaskets. Stock. But,,,, I did pull timing. Which is why she lived.

Isn't like 300 bucks ???

No Need, I will just tell you.

You must know I will step forward with no secrets.

Rook when I first started playing with timing maps Ivan got me started. His Neutral lock with timing advance map was brilliant.

Now I talked to Ivan about Nos and Boost way back then(2007)when I was growing out of stock horsepower. Ivan would have no part of power adders. Feel free to ask him.

SO, speaking of Ivan he suggested a TRE to just eliminate the retard for NA use. It also would lock in a single gear map so that nitrous adjustments would be consistent in every gear.

I ran my first boosted ZX14 Exactly that way. Made 272hp, never blew up. EVER ! All stock Motor. No Springs, No thicker gaskets. Stock. But,,,, I did pull timing. Which is why she lived.

SCREW BROCK'S that is my official position.

Mr Romans do you still do flashes for a 2008?

Thanks -- Bobby

Romans went with Akrapovich. I would try an Akra or Hindle AFR table to tune the Brocks pipe. I think you will be amazed at how little difference you notice even after it's tuned. It's there but fueling alone probably won't make a significant difference if the Brocks map is running very close to Brock's AFR. Brocks and Akra AFR are probably very similar if they are both race maps.

Put the POD on there and run the AFR gauge. See what AFR it's running with Brock's map. If it's not between 12 and 14, you would benefit from a little self tuning. Look at the Akra or Hindle AFR table and see how that compares to to your AFR with Brocks. The PODs datalogging would be necessary to do this.

I think it's pretty shitty that Brock sells Autotune if you can't use it on his maps. There should be a notice in his ad if there isn't one.

Mr Romans do you still do flashes for a 2008?

ROOK!!
Where to get my hooks on an Akra or Hindle map? I completely agree on the Brock's bullshit map situation. I refuse to use or even try to cypher it. A matter of principal at this point. I have learned enough here just from you and Romans that I am only interested in building my own map. Cant imagine letting someone else do that work for me! Where's the fun in that?

I have learned enough here just from you and Romans that I am only interested in building my own map. Cant imagine letting someone else do that work for me! Where's the fun in that?

You might try darryl. He hasn't been around in a while but you may reach him if you check this thread out.

http://zx14ninjaforum.com/messages.cfm?threadid=5201F725-E2D8-67AE-3D45F1BEDF41C0D8&page=1&searchTerm=zero%20map&show=0

DogoZX tuned his Gen1 from a zero map. I don't know what AFR table he used but I assume it was a Hindle Alienhead since that's what exhaust he had. I can't find the thread about his self tuning process but I remember it well.

All you need is a good AFR table and a lot of cojones.

I posted this for ya ironhead. I think someone will have the answer. Just be careful if you post over there. Brock occasionally pops in. LOL you might want to hold back a rant until you get all the info!

http://zx1441r.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4226

ROOKORINO!!
Thanks Brotein shake! Hell The DJ maps they provide are a fine framework to start with. That is what i started my tuning run against anyway. They have 12 diff maps I think- ten of which cover most popular slip on and a few full systems. Including a brocks ( ) setup. They can stuff their blank maps where the sun dont shine. The trends among all ten are under scrutiny right now. This tune will ROCK!,

Thanks Brotein shake!

DJ maps will be safe. I would think they look richer if you compare the fuel table to Brocks. It's a start. You're probably not going to tune the whole map in one day. Before you do a bunch of top end runs, you should try to get an AFR table with the same level of cred as that pipe. Map sharing is not as common as it was 10 years ago so getting a map from a reliable source might be a challenge. A lot of people have just the faintest idea of what a map is now that most people are going with a flash. You might consider the flash rout and then clean it up with AutoTune. That's what a lot of tuners are recommending. For now, I'd say work with the DJ map. Save the Brocks map in the POD.

YO ---iron!

check your zx1441r thread.

Expect an email from Lee Pritchard aka SmokinZX14, zx1441r.com admin and drag racer extraordinaire. I took the liberty to PM your email addy to him.

You should also become a member there. It's a slow exchange and LOL I often end up posting the answer to my own question but I also get some very helpful advice on lesser known tech matters.

* Last updated by: Rook on 3/4/2018 @ 8:31 PM *

I got a PM from Smokin and I forwarded to you via PM here. It's not the table but it is the ideal AFR range we already knew. It's a starting point though. you can use a DJ map and edit in your 13.whatever where you think it fits. You're into this enough that you will get your hands on some full AFR tables sooner or later and this will give you ideas about how to construct the whole table. I think you're going to see that for sport riding, it doesn't make the bike feel a huge amount different. There will probably be a couple small areas of the powerband that you feel a nice improvement. Of course, I'll pass along any additional info as I get it.

As mentioned before, Mike, A good map is probably not going to feel any different than a great map. If you are racing and you data log, that is probably where you would see the gains or losses in .01 seconds but you don't feel that by the seat of your pants. The bike has way too much power to feel a small improvement. If you get into it that deeply, you can data log with your POD but I think you would be best to plan on doing most of that on an LSR course or you'll end up in the clink!

* Last updated by: Rook on 3/6/2018 @ 5:38 AM *