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Thread: clutch and charging issues

Created on: 02/17/18 02:19 PM

Replies: 40

cruderudy


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Location: AMR

Joined: 08/15/12

Posts: 1963

RE: clutch and charging issues
02/21/18 8:06 PM

The 14R is a great solid over-designed machine, but its still a mass produced machine. Its entirely possible that one of the probable root cause(s) of your problem is a 6 yr old clutch with 14000 miles on it. You may have charging issues and 6 yrs on the battery is running on borrowed time, but I will be interested in following this thread to see if it has any affect on the clutch lock up and slippage. Something doesn't make sense here?



Perfectly Set up '06 dead and gone
New BBW '14 14R

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: clutch and charging issues
02/21/18 8:20 PM

I think it's just coincidence the bat is failing at the same time.

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suedez


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Location: Del Rio, Texas

Joined: 05/17/12

Posts: 109

RE: clutch and charging issues
02/21/18 8:29 PM

Actually, not useless - the idea was not comprehending.



USAF Fighter Pilot, Retired
2012 ZX-14R (blue - the funnest color)
2006 Honda ST-1300
Previous bikes:
2002 Honda CBR954RR
1997 Suzuki Bandit 1200S
1985 Honda VFR 500F
1977 Honda CB-400 Hawk

Mods: Kaoko throttle lock, grip guppies, Muzzy fender eliminator.

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: clutch and charging issues
02/21/18 9:11 PM

"6 yr old clutch with 14000 miles on it".Normal riding?Nah....I don't think so.My first 14(07) had over 50k miles when sold.My 2013 has 25K plus...no problems with the clutch.

I look at it as killing two birds with one stone.SOMETHING had to make Suedez get a new battery!lol.


* Last updated by: Grn14 on 2/21/2018 @ 9:24 PM *

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 20583

RE: clutch and charging issues
02/22/18 3:24 PM

Mine has 48,000 miles and the clutch is about ready to be replaced. 75% of the fiber thickness is gone. IDK if that equates to 25% more miles. Lets just say, the clutch needs changing at about 50,000 miles. Depends on your riding environment, of course.



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE Now Deceased

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cruderudy


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Location: AMR

Joined: 08/15/12

Posts: 1963

RE: clutch and charging issues
02/22/18 5:06 PM

yall remember the guy who could not change his valve gap clearance?? mass produced parts fuckup - it happens. All clutch parts nominal tolerance when assembled and whalla 60K miles no problem. bad parts and who knows?



Perfectly Set up '06 dead and gone
New BBW '14 14R

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 20583

RE: clutch and charging issues
02/22/18 5:40 PM

and the jury is still out on why my Pazzo won't go on the MC pushrod straight. I've wondered if that MC might just be put together wrong.



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE Now Deceased

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: clutch and charging issues
02/23/18 8:30 AM

Well...apparently the pazzo drill hole is not in line with the 14 rod.Nothing wrong with yer M/C.Stock lever works...

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13710

RE: clutch and charging issues
02/23/18 11:21 AM

Agrees with Grn. That, and/or the position at the pivot for the lever.



Tormenting the motorcycling community one post at a time

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: clutch and charging issues
02/23/18 1:24 PM

Yep...the pivot.

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 20583

RE: clutch and charging issues
02/23/18 3:16 PM

yeah. Different thread but thanks for the inputs. I'll be checking that soon.



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE Now Deceased

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suedez


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Location: Del Rio, Texas

Joined: 05/17/12

Posts: 109

RE: clutch and charging issues
02/24/18 3:02 PM

Put the new battery in there. 12.4 volts on the dash before starting. She fired right up but continued to read low 12s on the dash... Went back and fired her up again. This time I held the RPMs to around 3000 for a while - no change on the volts. Looked at another site - could it be a bad regulator rectifier? If so, how do I narrow this down?


* Last updated by: suedez on 2/24/2018 @ 5:03 PM *



USAF Fighter Pilot, Retired
2012 ZX-14R (blue - the funnest color)
2006 Honda ST-1300
Previous bikes:
2002 Honda CBR954RR
1997 Suzuki Bandit 1200S
1985 Honda VFR 500F
1977 Honda CB-400 Hawk

Mods: Kaoko throttle lock, grip guppies, Muzzy fender eliminator.

Link | Top | Bottom

Rook


Rook's Gravatar

Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 20583

RE: clutch and charging issues
02/24/18 5:31 PM

I don't know what the rectifier does. But the SM tells how to check charging voltage p 16-49

If the charging voltage does not rise as the engine speed increases, then the regulator/rectifier is defective or the alternator output is insufficient for the loads. Check the alternator and regulator/rectifier to determine which part is defective.

I think you just did a charging voltage test with your bike's voltmeter and it didn't pass.

SM how to check the alternator p 16-46,47

and the rectifier p 16-48

NOTICE
Use only Kawasaki Hand Tester 57001-1394 for this test. A tester other than the Kawasaki Hand Tester may show different readings.
If a megger or a meter with a large capacity battery is used, the regulator/rectifier will be damaged.

These guys are saying any multimeter will work. I just got a nice one on Amzon for around $30.

but this guy brings up a good point. The Kaw tool is analog and a digital might not read the signal the same as an analogue. I'd pick up a cheap analogue but do some research to be sure the bike's system is within the multimeter's range.


* Last updated by: Rook on 2/24/2018 @ 5:33 PM *



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE Now Deceased

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13710

RE: clutch and charging issues
02/27/18 12:37 AM

could it be a bad regulator rectifier? If so, how do I narrow this down?

Sequence to narrow it down goes something like this:
1. Charge battery overnight. If it cranks the bike over you had the 'push' (amps) out of the battery. I have eliminated 1 of 3 components that completes the charging loop. I look at it as if the charge could start the bike, then I created a load test showing a good battery.

2. Vo/Reg acts the voltage limiter. It only works one way and if any of the 3 movements fail... cooks the battery. So as AC builds as the crank spins, the VR captures the full wave of volts. Then turns it into DC or captures the one wave so as it can't return back (it does reverse but gets complicated). So think of a 32amp stator a harley uses. Think of the sweep as North has 16a and South pumps out 16a thru the 2 wire ends. That btw is 1 single wire wrapped around those legs and you now have 2 wires pumping out a constant 16a. The VR has a capacitor filling up that voltage being made. The integrated circuit breaks down DTT as: the 'Threshold' it captured in the capacitor. If that part failed, E would run over that capacitor, not into it. That means the VR is junk and over-cooks 16v into the battery. There is a 'Trigger' point where 2v or less is grounded, and the rest you watch the 14+v 'Discharge' into the battery. If the trigger wire was separated from the chip (IC), there goes the 16v not regulated and cooks the battery. The discharge would not head partially to ground and the rest grounds into the battery. No, it is the full 16 or so volts (for argument sake) that keeps boiling the acid into big bubbles, not small size champagne bubbles off a glass>>> being more regulated. This is the full wave from stator to battery. So it separates the plates inside the battery from the boiled liquid bubbles. Therefore, the VR can still ground the 16v of the remaining good wire(s)... It's not the DTT machine.

3. Stator/rotor is the last part of the charging loop. The rotor is a rotating magnet and hardly fails. The stator remains stationary. There are 3 yellow wires going to the VR. This connector can be found under the seat, where the VR is bolted to the seat-fender rail, right side. Those 3 wires are looped to each other so each wire should show the same resistance between the 3 wires at the connector.
So the test would be:
a. Set mulit-meter to infinity or where the horizontal 8 icon is somewhere on the meter's face.
b. Place and hold + probe on one of the yellow pins and leave it there.
c. Probe the - needle or alligator clip to the other 2 yellow wires.
Good = All yellow wires have the same balanced resistance number between them.
Bad = One yellow is going to read different then the other 2 yellows... It's the stator.

Recap:
Batt - Shows it can push the starter over with amps. Surface read 12v means jackshit. It's all about 'load test.'
V/R - E finds the shortest path and it jumps over the surface of the regulator from the yellows directly to batt.
Stator - It has to push volts in a constant N-S pulse so no wire inside the wrapping touches each other or goes to ground or the pulse is not balanced out of each wire.

Good stator pulse = 00000000000000000000000.
Bad stator with pulse drop of 3rd wire = 00-00-00-00-00.


* Last updated by: Hub on 2/27/2018 @ 12:57 AM *



Tormenting the motorcycling community one post at a time

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13710

RE: clutch and charging issues
02/27/18 12:44 AM

A kawi meter is no different than any other analog'd needle. Ohm's is a theory of balance. The kawi is going to read 12.8v if the battery is sitting static as will a digital numbered meter. You guess the needle, the digital calc'd the number in ohm's law down to the decimal point. The internal parts for both meters are set in stone or the formula won't work part for part wise.

Signed,
NOLTT



Tormenting the motorcycling community one post at a time

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cruderudy


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Location: AMR

Joined: 08/15/12

Posts: 1963

RE: clutch and charging issues
02/27/18 8:20 AM

+1 on the VR

If you can ohm out the stator and nothing is shorted or open that shouldn't be, then it points to the VR. On my old 911 I have a voltmeter in line with a positive circuit to keep an eye on the charging voltage. On the old 911 when the VR dies it dies in a shorted condition and can allow whatever voltage the alternator is making to cook the battery. Bad very expensive things can happen when the VR dies on an older analog car.

The Hub has it on the stator/rotor, not much to go wrong there. (but check just to rule it out)



Perfectly Set up '06 dead and gone
New BBW '14 14R

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