The latest, in Florida, took 17 innocent lives. I could go down the list, but as we all know, there have been others-too many others.

The tongue-in-cheek headline in The Onion read; "We can't prevent this from happening, says the only country on earth where it regularly happens."

Although not a gun enthusiast or a hunter, I was raised in a house with guns. My first woodworking experience was helping my Dad finish custom gunstocks he made for his friends, so I have no issue with guns, per se, only the easy access that led to these tragic wastes of lives.

I have told my hunting and shooting friends, that it's up to them to do something, because a change in gun laws will have no personal effect on me since I don't own any. What say ye, gun lovers? Sit on our hands and do nothing but offer up ineffectual "thoughts and prayers" each time another slaughter happens?

Your kids' school may be next.

So, Bumpfire, as a gun dealer, how would you feel if one of your sales leads to one or more murders? Most of the firearms used in school shootings were legally obtained from dealers like yourself. Does your personal responsibility end when the customer walks out your door with his new firearm? I doubt you are qualified to mentally screen every person who walks in wanting a gun.

Are we willing to put security perimeters around every public gathering? Should we all arm ourselves for the impending apocalypse/race war/doomsday scenario? If gun lovers such as yourself aren't willing to change anything, nothing will change, in my opinion. It hasn't so far.

And of course people kill people and guns don't. but should it really be this easy for nutcases and whack jobs to obtain weapons of mass murder?

And please look at what happened in Australia when they instituted an across-the-board gun confiscation. I'm not advocating that, but it appears to have worked.

When the Founding Fathers wrote the 2nd Amendment, personal firearms were basically the same thing the military had. The idea that personal firearm possession could keep citizens free of tyranny is ridiculous. You may have an assault weapon with multiple magazines, but they have smart bombs. The tyranny of flying bullets we live under is what needs to change.

* Last updated by: Danno on 2/20/2018 @ 2:07 AM *

Well...Danno...how about you?If you need some police protection sometime,you think they should come unarmed then?Or those needing self defense.They should just forget owning a gun,and trust the assaulter to just 'be nice'?As the violent crime actions go up,us citizens ought to just forget about protecting ourselves and others and just trust the kindness of those who seek harm on others,yes?Okay....let's all just throw away our guns then and let the criminals go ahead and have their way...with our kids,wives,friends.Sound okay?Cause that's what yer gonna get...I promise.Sounds like something to really look forward to.How far ya think this country would be safety-wise had our earlier Presidents just looked the other way as the world powers increased their weapons programs.And the Nazis and such...just look the other way,right?PRETEND 'they want to do do us no harm'....sound okay then?

Sad fact...to fight and discourage criminality,one must be able to be stronger,in this present world.You don't get that assurance by laying down and begging for mercy.Fairy Tale.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 2/20/2018 @ 3:10 AM *

Dangerous game to get into but...

I lived in Australia for 52 years.
When the total gun ban came in after the Port Arthur massacre there were some very unhappy folk but it was pushed through anyway.
Australia has not had another gun related massacre since.
This is not heresy or opinion but simple fact.
This must stand for something!

I constantly hear that people want to protect themselves and don't want to be defenceless.
If no one has guns then you don't have to protect yourself against them.
Plus this was never an issue in Australia after the gun ban.

I constantly hear guns don't kill people. People kill people.
So why is a gunless Australia so free of mass killings while the gun ridden US has mass killing regularly?
I mean there's people in both right?

The ability to rise against a tyrannical government was relevant when the second amendment was written and muskets were the order of the day for all but your government now has Stealth fighters, Nuclear submarines, Arsenals of germ and poison gas warfare agents, etc so thats seems like a pretty voided reason now.

There was a post here not so long ago asking if anyone had learned to draw a firearm with their left hand while riding.
I mean is it just me that thinks that is just pure insanity?
Does this mentality not ring out massive alarm bells?

What if it was your innocent son or daughter mown down in a hail of bullet fire?

What if your son has a massive disagreement with his brother/sister and in a fit of rage picks up your firearm and uses it in a moment of reactive emotional anger when all would have calmed down in an hour or two if no gun was available?
How many times have you punched a guy in the face after an massive argument and instantly regretted it one second later?
No second chances in the same scenario if a gun is involved.

I know I will cop a lot of flack for my opinions on this and many of you will vehermently disagree.
Thats okay. It is what it is.

But I'm incredibly thankful I live in a country where guns are illegal and we just don't have the constant tragedies you guys have on a regular basis.

Okay.
You guys can rip me a new one now...

"but should it really be this easy for nutcases and whack jobs to obtain weapons"...the magic wand.."I can read your mind"...sorry,that aint gonna happen.

Danno,I have sold guns that were used in homicides,suicides and bank robberies.I sleep like a baby.-Bumpfire

So as long as good ole American free enterprise makes a "legal" profit, it's all ok? And as long as your Second Amendment rights are protected, too bad about the rights of the recently deceased because you didn't personally pull the trigger? I myself would feel somewhat responsible for enabling those crimes, but then again, I have a conscience.

This morning, the man whose family took the shooter in said an 18-yr.-old stranger with social problems and dealing with the recent death of his mother owning an assault rifle and multiple magazines didn't seem like an issue because he "owns guns and respects guns" himself.

As we become more and more conditioned to regular mass murders, those who believe in gun ownership are not only short of conscience, but unable to purchase a clue with all their mental acuity.

And Grn, if I want your opinion, I'll click on that video link.

Seriously, I'd like to see some ideas from gun owners, not listen to speeches by assholes looking for votes. I appreciate Bumpfire's comment about HEPA laws and the mental illness factor, but instead of throwing up hands (or sitting on them) how about some ideas on how to STOP MASS SHOOTINGS that don't involve 20/20 hindsight. Of course NOW we all know the shooters' names and their history of strange behavior behavior. Whoecver sold him the weapons he used was somehow able to conveniently ignore that and make the sale.

If you need some police protection sometime,you think they should come unarmed then?-Grn

No idea where that come from or what it has to do with keeping guns out of the hands of the mentally deficient or preventing more mass shootings.

let's all just throw away our guns then and let the criminals go ahead and have their way.-Grn

Also no clue on that one, but I notice gun lovers going off the rails whenever any question of action over gun violence, especially mass shootings is raised. Paranoia can easily overcome common sense when one feels threatened and for some reason, gun lovers seem to feel threatened regardless of how many high-powered weapons and munitions they possess. If I were a gun owner, I wouldn't say a fuckin thing about it and no one would ever know unless they found out the hard way.

* Last updated by: Danno on 2/20/2018 @ 5:08 AM *

Our crime ridden cities controlled by Democratic mayors.-Bumpfire

Last I checked, Florida was being run by Republicans and the black kids shooting each other in Chicago over chickenshit dope deals gone bad or who drank the last tall boy have yet to enter a school or get a hotel room overlooking an outdoor event and kill multiple strangers for no reason at all. So your theory is meaningless and has nothing to do with preventing future mass shootings in nice white suburbs by white kids with assault weapons.

Thought gun control was the topic.-Bumpfire

More paranoia. I asked gun owners such as yourself for ideas to prevent future mass shootings. Is gun control and paranoia all you got?

Remember, insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. So far, the results of doing nothing have been pretty consistent.

they kill each other for sport in Chicago.

Not 17 at a time. Not innocent school kids sitting in class. And how do you know he's not white? Have you ever known or met a Castilian? How about a Majorcan? That's just racist stereotyping of someone with a Hispanic name.

If this kid walked into Bumpfires friendly gunshop, would the owner think he was white?

Educate yourself,You might learn something.Bumpfire

This is another quirk I always notice about conservatives-They are true believers and assume everyone else is ignorant and they are smart for believing as they do.

Background checks are all over the board depending on where you're purchasing. Not really interesting in reviewing them unless some gun owner out there has some idea about how to make them consistent and effective. In the more conservative States where firearm purchases are easier, legally-bought firearms are exported to those big, crime-ridden cities by profit-minded conservatives. Free enterprise at it's best.

* Last updated by: Danno on 2/20/2018 @ 5:31 AM *

Actually is is YOU that doesn't have the first clue what I'm talking about. I don't give a fuck about background checks that do little more than collect a levy and let shit like this happen over and over. If you wanna forget intelligent discussion and be an asshole I can call you a no-good ignorant redneck cocksucker. This thread is about ways to stop the NEXT massacre, which according to all you nazi fuckers is all Obama's fault, all Democratic big-city mayors fault and since you have no compunction about selling a weapon to anyone who walks through the door (as long as it's legal (like Mr. Cruz's purchase) your (lack of) conscience is clear. The only thing clear is you have no idea how to stop the madness and could give a fuck less as long as everyone has all the guns they want. Admit it.
So if you have no constructive ideas, shut the fuck up and take your knee-jerk rantings to a different thread. I have been insulted by a lot smarter people than you, so if you think i care, you're deluded. Go fuck yourself and raise up your own little bastard.

And a gun is an inanimate object, not intimate object you ignorant hillbilly. I hope your kids aren't the next victims.

Actually I just wanted to demonstrate how fruitless name-calling, pigeonholing and assuming to define a person you've never even met is. Never meant a word. It's worse than pretentious to think you know what you don't even suspect.

The only CNN I've ever watched was when they've run CNN clips on PBS. so Danno 1, Bumpfire 0

The only time I mentioned gun control was to bring up the subsequently substantiated example of Australia. If there are other methods of keeping assault weapons out of the hands of the mentally deranged, please elaborate.
\
Back to the HEPA law, my and everyone else's first reaction is to change that law, even though it may impinge on basic rights (privacy) just like other partial solution may also impinge on basic rights (gun ownership). So if your privacy is more important personally than gun ownership, How is one right any more important than another when it comes to protecting children and crowds of innocent people at public events? The most important one is the one you cherish most. Each person should decide what they're willing to do in terms of what they're willing to give up in the area of rights to stop these senseless mass murders.

And before you mention education again, chew on this: as education level rises, gun ownership drops. If you want to have an intelligent discussion, you have to admit to the veracity of the other side. If you just dismiss, label and insult, nothing will change and the Russians win.

How did I KNOW that bumpfart would be a True Blue gun lover???

Mad

I have told my hunting and shooting friends, that it's up to them to do something, because a change in gun laws will have no personal effect on me since I don't own any.

I don't own any guns either but I'm glad many citizens do. I'm also glad some own military guns and I'm glad they modify them to operate as they were originally intended. A well armed population is the only defense against a tyrannical leader's use of the military to control the population. That's the whole reason for the 2nd amendment. I don't think the main concern was hunters when they came up with that one. I don't think enough citizens are armed and trained with the right weapons.

Our second amendment rights are too sacred to toss out the window. I'd love it if our country was more peaceful and nobody needed to plan for such things as a military coup or the more likely event of a mass shooting but that's not us. In Europe where gun control is very strict, there were bombings for decades and everyone just went on living with it. Gun control won't stop mass murder. It can reduce the damage from mass shootings though.

And before you mention education again, chew on this: as education level rises, gun ownership drops. If you want to have an intelligent discussion, you have to admit to the veracity of the other side. If you just dismiss, label and insult, nothing will change and the Russians win.

I call BS, the issue is that its almost impossible to have a rational discussion with liberals because they make shit up and state it as facts. Because you didn't state any data or references to back up your claim I checked you and call bullshit.

From the US DoJ Office of Justice Programs National Institute od Justice Research I Brief by Jeremy Travis Director 1997: "Gun ownership (and handgun ownership)was highest among middle-aged,5 college educated people"

If you stop making up facts or posting fake news from your talking points we can have a discussion

http://tulprpc.org/attachments/File/Natl_Justice-guns_in_America.pdf

* Last updated by: cruderudy on 2/20/2018 @ 1:40 PM *

Flush out your head gear.

The only solution is to convince people to not want to kill each other. Period (to quote Maverdick). Britain has legislated against carrying edged weapons. You know what the fuckwits are doing now over there?

Throwing sulfuric acid in each other's faces.

Well it started out good with a "How would you fix this" and ended in a stabbing match. Dan there will probably be
another if not more mass shootings before anything gets solved. I believe trying to forcibly take our guns will cause a civil war between the people and the government and some hope for this and the "New America" where they will lead the new nation. Once the 2nd amendment is abolished the riots and destruction starts. The government starts with one type of gun then move to another and another until cops - criminals - military are the only ones left with guns.
I say outlaw all ammo down to and include pellet guns. Anybody with ammo or reloading equipment is a mandatory 10 year sentence in a labor camp.
Dan is this an answer you were looking for? It is for sure I have no answer but only a thought.

Danno :
If this kid walked into Bumpfires friendly gunshop, would the owner think he was white?

.

bumpfire :
Nope,thats a Mexican. The kid looks Spanish,is Spanish,no stereotyping at all,only the truth

.
Marc Marquez a Mexican? what a display of unbelievable ignorance.

Despite your bigoted views, Marc Marquez is European from Spain, paisano. So yes, you are clearly stereotyping an entire nation. Your prejudice is showing by lumping all Spanish speaking people as Mexicans.

I can picture you foaming at the mouth replying to Danno. Your responses sound so angry, the vein on the side of your neck is popping out.

Methinks you are foaming at the mouth because your Messiah is now talking about banning "bump stocks".

Watch out - Donald Trump is coming after your guns.

.
.
.

Sounds like to me you need Hitler to enforce your socialist agenda -Bumpfire

I love this shit. Donald Trump actually sounds saner than you.

https://articles.pennlive.com/nation-world/2018/02/trump_citing_evil_massacre_in.amp

I call BS-Cruderudy

If you would spend 10% of the effort you're making o discredit me, you could have thought of several simple practical things that could be done to prevent MASS SHOOTINGS, Instead, you're too busy trying to bolster your postitions with shit you read on the internet. Do you want to turn this into a link-posting contest, because then you'll have to read all the shit I can look up to counter the shit you look up and we'll NEVER come to any conclusions about how to protect innocent citizens from mass murder.So far, you got nothing. here's me:

1. Change the HEPA laws to keep ALL guns out of the hands of the deranged. The only problem is where do you draw the line that deranged is on the other side of. Who wants to post some bullshit NRA-backed survey to argue with that?

2. Limit the number of non-hunting and non-sport shooting (clays, trap, targets, fast-draw, classic) weapons manufactured. You gun guys will argue about what constitutes a military-type weapon and what doesn't, but you all know exactly what I'm talking about. All the arms makers overbuilt when they thought Hilary would be elected and had to warehouse a lot of stock. Since the Florida shootings, that warehouse stock is now being rapidly depleted. Sorry gun lovers, but I am a firm believer that the actual number of firearms manufactured is in direct proportion to the number of stolen and illegal guns that hit the street.

3. Gun Safe requirement laws. The people who took in the Florida shooter were required to have a gun safe in their house for the shooter's weapons. Probably some Florida State foster home law, IDK. The stepdad said he thought there was only one key. Unfortunately there were two. All good intentions went to shit for a stray key. Guns safe requirement for any household with occupants under 21? Of course, like any safety law, the practitioners have to be on their toes. In the r4ecent case, somebody wasn't and a lot of kids died.

4. Metal detectors in schools. Make everyone in the building pass through one on the way in, going in to a secure glass airlock. If the alarm goes off, the doors lock the suspect in. They're in almost every public building in every small town EXCEPT public schools. Come on, this is simple.

Anybody else have any simple, relatively painless common-sense ideas? Or would you rather just argue about mine and continue sitting on your hands while innocents die?

Spanish ,Mexican,whatevever.The kid in in Florida,you know the one that killed his classmates,is Spanish.Now I don't know the difference in you folks different tribes or whatever way you distinguish yourselves from each other.Us white folks identify as white folks.Not separated by region or oceans.kinda see where your identity politics comes from now. Hell,you use it within your own race.Waiting to be called a racist or whatever it is your calling people today.

.
I can sense your anger, it appears you are still foaming at the mouth. Careful, we don't want you to go postal.

Again, your prejudice to anything Spanish (Nikolas Cruz) sounding is revealing. This deranged MAGA lover boy, hater of jews, blacks and immigrants was born to American/Jewish parents and raised by his adopted parents (Roger Cruz) at age 2.

Thanks for letting the cat out of the bag, way to go with your bigoted and prejudiced assumptions.

Geez bumpfart. And you called me out for implying you were a racist. I guess you just proved me 100% right.
Thanks pal...

Mad