Pull your secondary plates or adjust your riding. I recommend both.

I'm with Mav

IMO of course,,,, Flies ,,, take them out. If you have not sprung the cash or don't have it for a flash take them out, it's Freeee. Half of your safety mode is now removed. No brainer Sweeeeet.

When I say half you must know in safety mode timing gets pulled. Sorry no cheat for this. Flash or live with it. If you guys don't hammer throttle off the line every start it means nothing to you and you will love and enjoy the bottom end punch from the flies out mod, promise.

Also Dyno #'s showing more power with flies in are just that Dyno #'s. They do Not take into account the cooling effect of the Ram air. Lee pritchard has run back to back testing. His fastest runs, FLIES OUT.

Nasty according to Romans and Ivan the older 4-1 Akrapovic system makes the most low to mid range power. Well let me restate that, the most mid range for sure.

Yep, A war I don't want to get into but BacK to back testing with both Beast Bike and mine, was Akra for the win. My bike made 2hp up top which means nothing but midrange was a Wow. Our tests proved same results as Ivan #'s on the dyno. Street testing proved the same results.

Easy fix. Take out secondary flys. Get 1/4 turn throttle insert.

This man speaks the truth. Mad Max afterwards. Lots of fun.

* Last updated by: Romans on 10/28/2014 @ 8:15 AM *

There is a company that bores out the throttle bodies, shaves down the secondary throttle plate linkage, and blends the edge to make it aerodynamic. Testing has shown up to 7 HP up top with this set up. Not helpful to our low RPM friend, but def of interest to someone who spends a lot of time 10,000+ like me.

Back to topic... I believe the real answer to your 1,500 - 3,000 RPM torque deficit has less to do with ECU settings and final drive ratio and more to do with simple engineering. The lift and duration numbers on our cams are aimed at producing mid to upper RPM power. You simply can't produce ultra low and ultra high rpm performance with fixed profile cams. Especially with an engine that revs to 11,000+

There is a company that bores out the throttle bodies, shaves down the secondary throttle plate linkage, and blends the edge to make it aerodynamic. Testing has shown up to 7 HP up top with this set up. Not helpful to our low RPM friend, but def of interest to someone who spends a lot of time 10,000+ like me.

Who does this and how much?

There is a company that bores out the throttle bodies, shaves down the secondary throttle plate linkage, and blends the edge to make it aerodynamic. Testing has shown up to 7 HP up top with this set up.

From what I remember, Cams may have been required to get the most out of this mod.

Who does this and how much?

Nasty, Harry Manovich is the name your looking for. From what I remember cost was 550 ? northernkaw@hotmail.com

Also Jim at CompetitionCNC Click Here his cost was 530. Can't find a nicer guy to deal with.

* Last updated by: Romans on 10/28/2014 @ 8:18 AM *

I can't stomach paying for 2 re-flashes. Those bitches (flies) are coming out this week.

Is there any downside to this other than a few top end HP?

* Last updated by: Auron on 10/28/2014 @ 8:02 AM *

What I'd like to know is why Kawasaki and others go through the massive R&D to make such a fast bike, add cc's, weight, ect... AND THEN RESTRICT THE EFFING THING!!! WHY!?!?!?

Cause there are too many idiots out there that think they can ride like Marquez and Rossi.

There is very little negative effect to pulling flies. Ain't gonna notice a horse or two loss off the top end anyway.

* Last updated by: nasty on 10/28/2014 @ 8:10 AM *

I've noticed right around 3100-3200rpm the engine smooths out considerably and rockets away from there. Is this when the flies are opening? I thought this is why I had it flashed?

FWIW...the fly opening deal...isn't only limited to take offs and such.When you shift....and add throttle...the secondaries are working to smooth power delivery...can you feel this?Maybe.Probably.If you're looking for it.The guys flashing these ECU's for fly opening times would be best to ask really.But from my understanding of it...the secondaries are 'helping' along the entire rev range to produce a smoother riding experience....that's why I left mine in.But they have been flashed to open sooner than the factory settings.

No flys flash,pipe sprockets best bang for the buck,cams Pistons and bored throttle bodies head work degreed cams a tuners dream hope you got lots of money,also the bike won't be street friendly.talk to Romes a turbo is a less expensive street friendly route

I'm already blown away by how smooth the on-off throttle is, a little more snap or less drivability from losing the flies doesn't worry me too much.

Keep in mind guys, I live in Denver where a 14R probably isn't even as fast as a Gen 1 Busa at sea level.

Larger TBs produced 5-7 more horsepower with STOCK cams. Call Jim at cnc if you think otherwise. Head and cam package would cost around 3k for our bikes and would probably put down around 215 to 220. While this isn't close to a turbo setup, you would have an infinitely more reliable setup that would operate just as efficiently and smooth as a stock engine. Mild cams won't effect street manners unless you make a habit of riding around at 2k rpm. As stated earlier I would realize the benefit of these mods more so than Joe Blow as I spend lots of time in the 10k rpm range.

Maverick,I have had bikes that I put cams in and was not happy til head work,pistons etc was done the bikes then went like a bat out of hell, but we're not street friendly.I do believe your right as the cams were not mild grinds

You're noticing a lack of torque that low in the rpm range because the engine isnt in its efficiency range. We're talking about an engine that peaks at 11,000+ rpm here. This is simple engine math guys, nothing more nothing less.

My apologies in advance, but what the heck?

You want more low end from a bike that has basically made more power and tq than just about anything else made from a factory. A zx10r Literbike make peak TQ at what? 11000? We make it at 7000? and make twice as much. Heck, we make 75 lbft of tq at 3500 rpm, as much as most of the 1000 machines.

So, you want more TQ? Ride it in the next lower gear, ride it above 3000, or change the sprockets.

I mean, in first at anything above 20mph; your at 3000 rpm or more. If you don't think you have enough TQ at that speed, pin the throttle with the tcs off. and HOLD ON, cause its coming up or the rear wheel is going to spin.

As much power as these bikes have, there's only so much you can do. Its not going to be like an electric motor. The cam profiles are set up to make BIG power and TQ over as wide a range as possible yeah. But these aren't a v-twin who's motor's are done in by 5500-6000.

ps. find a v-twin that can hang with a zx14r. there might be some that make close to our TQ maybe ~100 or so, but they have half our hp (maybe a little more). That's the way it works. You need rpm's to get the power.

Not trying to be harsh, just point out some things. Ride safe out there. and don't go by the owners manual and shift into 6th by 35 mph. lol. It aint gonna hurt it to cruise in 3rd or 4th when your out riding spirited. When I go out with a group of friends with literbikes, usually that's what I do. 3rd and 4th gear all day, while they use 2-5.

Oh, and you wonder why its restricted? Im sure it has to do with the legal beagles. And heck, as long as we can get it flashed for better performance, who cares? If they think they need a safety mode to make it OK to give us 200+hp? Ill take it. If its that, or 150 and no safety modes. Give me the 200 all day long. And hey, at least were not like France who limits bikes to 100hp. heh.

* Last updated by: rod442 on 10/29/2014 @ 9:14 AM *

When I first got my 14R I loved that it would pull like a freight train from low rpms. At 3,600 miles my engine threw a rod through the block. Looking at the destroyed parts, it was obvious that the big end of the rod got really hot due to the bearing either being too tight or oil starved. It was suggested to me that I shouldn't be accelerating hard from low rpm because the oil pressure isn't high enough at low rpm to protect the bearings under heavy load.

I still putt around town at low rpm sometimes, but if I'm going to accelerate beyond quarter throttle I downshift to get above 4,000 rpm first... just to be safe. RPM's up = oil pressure up.

Guys you missed an important detail about some of his issue. High altitude is causing some anemic performance. A good tune would help a bit, but thin air is thin air.

Yep altitude sucks for N/A engines. May as well just turbo it because a turbo engine cares not about altitude.

So flies came out easy thanks to the sticky thread about how much trouble they can be.

I think my experience proves what a nice job Ivan did with the flash. If anything, taking the flies out pushed that smoothing point up higher in the revs where it's even more annoying. I'll be putting them back in for the sake of fueling but am now considering a power commander, cam anyone be specific on what there is to gain?

As far as the bike's performance, being forced to keep the revs low for break-in did not help my initial impression. There is more than enough power, I just need to adjust to keeping the needle above 3 if I want an ass-load of power. Someone also mention how rewarding the bike is to have smooth throttle hand when opening it up and I'm finding that to be very true.

So should I throw more money at it and PCV it? I guess Ivan has a pretty good map to match his flash but keeping the stock pipes puts me in the minority so I'm not sure how much it could help.

Dropping the stock pipes and going with a single exit drops around 30 lbs off the bike. That alone is enough to feel a difference.

Crack her wide open in 1st at 3K...with no KTRC.If you can maintain a controllable lofting...go for it.I'm thinkin...you can't.You'll HAVE to back out.By the time you pass the 4k mark...I think you'll be seeing the asphalt comin up at ya like...real quick...with no mercy;)Sound weak and enemic?....try to get some vids of this little exercize for us all also....;)Hell...do that at 2k...wide open...first gear.Inquiring minds want to know....

My question has been answered.

Well for what it's worth I sprung for a PCV with Ivan's map preloaded and I couldn't be happier. It's as smooth as can be with plenty of power below 3K and bloody excess above that. Nothing I've owned even comes close, and I've had a bunch.

Good to hear bro! Proper fueling really makes this girl a beast. Some guys like to due it with a PC and others like to go all out flashing the fuel straight to the ECU!