Hi Everyone

My 2008 has the normal 10 second rattle on tensioner, but during the initial warm up(2000rpm)
it sometimes develops a further "corserer" sounding rattle which lasts for about the 30 seconds or so, or until the rpm drops to normal idle speed. As anyone come across this before? It sounds like its coming from the cam chain area

It sounds like a vibrating noise like the chain is vibrating against a piece of tin if that helps? Its not a tapping or knocking noise either.
Then it goes really quiet, just a bit worrying really, 22,000 miles new oil/filter

Thanks in advance

* Last updated by: dave350v8 on 12/22/2017 @ 6:18 AM *

Sounds like its to get a manual cam chain tensioner as the stock unit is not delivering the desired performance. Im sure more knowledgeable folks will be along but that is a common issue.

VERY common issue with the ZX14. Get an APE or other good brand manual cam chain tensioner. Rook has a tutorial about how to install and set it on this forum.

Mad

Yea, I thought it may be the tensioner, but im having a cam chain type noise during the first 3 minutes warming up time occasionally, not just the first few seconds on start up?

An APE tensioner is $60 and it will get rid of the rattle. Two screws is all it is to install. They're easy to adjust and you'll probably never need to touch it after the initial adjustment.

http://zx14ninjaforum.com/messages.cfm?threadid=9CFD17D8-1372-66AE-3B0D2BD6B6297697

it sometimes develops a further "corserer" sounding rattle which lasts for about the 30 seconds or so, or until the rpm drops to normal idle speed. As anyone come across this before?

I've had my manual tensioner for so long it's hard to remember but I think mine did that sometimes,too. I recall the rattle definitely did stop completely when fast idle stopped but I can't say if there was any notable change in the noise while it was happening.

A soft "clop clop clop" noise at idle is normal. It sounds a bit like horse hooves.

Thanks again for the information, I think I am getting paranoid since ive had this bike, listening for every bit of noise, is this normal as well? :-)

The paranoia of sounds? Yes. Lots of threads about little noises. A softly whining water pump, clop clop pistons, ticka ticka valves is all normal. When there is a bad noise, there is usually no question whether it is normal.

"cam chain type noise during the first 3 minutes"...oil needs to come up to pressure.But that's a little longer than 'normal'...go with the APE.

Yea that's what I was a bit concerned about, I had the normal 10 second rattle then cam chain noise a minute or so later, then the noise disappeared once idle dropped down to 1000rpm.

How long does the oil need to come up to pressure? usually seconds?

* Last updated by: dave350v8 on 12/22/2017 @ 2:34 PM *

Yup...but the issue really is the tensioner.Hydraulic.Void of oil after sitting.

New oil always seemed to help. I thought because it clung to parts better. three minutes is a while but if you're riding in real cold weather, that could be it. the oil pressure should drop when it goes to normal idle but a drop in oil pressure might be what it needs to break the tension in that little hole the oil travels through.

If the bike was drag raced, the cam chains have been known to develop issues. If you wanted to be sure, you could pull the crankshaft sensor cover and check the chain for normal behavior and no kinks/binding. Then you can also check the lower chain guide for wear. Also send an oil sample off to Blackstone lab for material wear analysis while you're in there. Blackstone can tell you if there is chain metal, chain guide material or anything else that shouldn't be there under normal wear and tear.

Well I have started the bike again today, not a rattle to be heard, not too sure whether its a good idea to start it everyday day for 10 minutes? but as some have suggested letting it sitting around, especially in the cold weather causes the rattles, will go for ape tensioner if that's the way forward and Thanks again !!

* Last updated by: dave350v8 on 12/23/2017 @ 2:26 PM *

but as some have suggested letting it sitting around, especially in the cold weather causes the rattles,

I'd need to hear a more detailed explanation before I could accept that.

Reasons to not start during storage:
Lubrication
Oil has drained off the parts, some parts might take longer to get oil flow than others (CCT is a good example of that).

Cold oil is thicker than hot oil and doesn't flow as readily. I know they design oil to flow optimally both for cold starts and hot running conditions but show me oil that is not much more viscous when it's 12° F outside.

Condensation
Definitely causes water in exhaust and crankcase, probably spark plugs and throughout the engine, possibly even fuel tank. You won't get that out unless you ride the bike until it gets very well warmed up. Kaw says not to let the bike idle for prolonged periods. I ran mine 20 minutes one winter and steam still came out of the pipe when I shut it down.

Cold
Engine cranks over more times = more revs without lubrication (see Lubrication).

Excessive discharge from battery.

Stress on water pump if you have any slush in your antifreeze.

Backfires from fuel buildup caused by engine turning excessively before it starts.

When new, the bike sits in a crate without starting for months. There is nothing bad about not running a bike until someone buys it.

I don't start mine unless I need to for engine work and then I wait for a warmer day. I have used a heating pad on the oil pan when it was necessary to start when the weather was cold (look for a cheap one without auto-shut off). If you have a heated garage, I can't see a problem but I still don't see any benefit to it except you get to hear your engine run.

* Last updated by: Rook on 12/23/2017 @ 4:40 PM *

Good information again Rook, whats your thinking regarding filling gas tank up, rather than a virtually empty tank whilst bike is not being used, and using paddock stands whilst sitting in garage

Dave

* Last updated by: dave350v8 on 12/23/2017 @ 11:01 PM *

I've started mine just a couple of times here...and it's 10 degrees this time of year...even lower.I resist starting it because I have a suspicion that the rubber parts inside get stressed from lack of lubrication sitting in these temps.Could be all wrong.IDK.I guess it's okay.I don't let it run but only a minute or so.Condensation starts entering the oil.Not good.10 minutes?Any light color(water) in your sightglass after doing this?If not,it sounds okay.

Yep condensation in sight glass, soon goes once I go for a good run, always had it in cold weather with all my previous bikes, will only start it now if I intend to put a few miles on it

Thanks again

* Last updated by: dave350v8 on 12/24/2017 @ 3:56 AM *