I bought a Yuasa YTX14H-BS battery and installed it several days ago. The bike starts immediately and all tests say the battery is operating well. Only "problem" is the battery takes several hours to re-charge according to both of my Deltrans Battery Tender Plus chargers. Even when the charger shows full charge, if I unplug the bike for just 15 seconds, no starting/no ignition turned on, it will take about 4 hours for the charger to show full charge again. Both chargers show the same thing. Makes no sense.
Amazon gave me a full refund and said keep the battery. I contacted Yuasa to see what they think. After several questions back and forth, they said they suspect my charger is faulty (I know it's not) and "for being a loyal customer" they're sending me a free Yuasa 3 amp smart charger valued at $65 retail.
I didn't want to sound ungrateful but I questioned if a 3 amp charger is best for my battery. Their engineers said it is. So it's on it's way.
The general rule of thumb for the correct charging rate is: "Divide the battery's AMP HOUR RATING by 10". So, my battery's AH is 12, so the correct charging rate is 1.2 amps. I don't know if I'm looking too deep into this, but charging a battery at 2 1/2 times the "correct" charging rate seems like it would shorten battery life. So I don't know if I should use the charger when it arrives.
Something else I find confusing is that Deltrans Battery Tender Plus, claims it's 1.25 amp charger "charges as fast or faster than competitors 3 amp chargers". How can a 1.25 amp charger be as fast as a 3 amp charger? I don't care about how fast it charges, I just want a charger that's closest to the correct charging rate. But now I find out my 1.25 amp charger is supposedly sending out a 3 amp charge? My chargers are 6-7 years old and I don't remember reading any claim about being able to charge as fast as a 3 amp charger, so maybe the newer BT's are different?
Any help on this would be appreciated.

Maybe I'm missing something but if

the bike starts immediately and all tests say the battery is operating well

what's the problem?

Only "problem" is the battery takes several hours to re-charge according to both of my Deltrans Battery Tender Plus chargers.

Sounds like you have an optimistic fully charged indicator. So charge it for several hours then. If the bike then keeps it charged enough to start as often as you need and run the bike, everything's kosher.

Sounds like you are pulling the charger off as soon as you see the fully charged indicator light but the battery is not actually fully charged for 4 hours after the fully charged indicator comes on. Maybe the fully charged light comes on at 80% (even so, that probably should be enough to start the bike unless it has sat a few months). Just leave the charger on there. As long as it can't overcharge, I don't see the problem. I would leave my 8 year old batter Tender Jr. on at least overnight if I thought the battery was low.

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Thanks for the reply. I leave the bike on the charger all the time. I was wondering what could make both chargers read a fully charged battery as being less than fully charged? As you say, if the bike keeps starting well, it isn't a problem.
My other question was if a charger that charges at 3 amps should be used long term, when 1.25 amps is supposed to be the correct charging rate for any 12 AH rated battery?

I was wondering what could make both chargers read a fully charged battery as being less than fully charged?

It may be that "fully charged" is 80% or more. My Shorai charger only brings the battery to 80% in storage mode. Then it shuts off until the battery falls somewhat below 80%. When I am ready to put the battery back into service, I put the charger in charge mode overnight and that I presume brings it to 100%. I once started the bike after 3 months of storage without bringing the Shorai battery to full charge and I had a heck of a time getting the motor to run. It even backfired a couple times. Goes to show that 80% might not be enough for a start in more extreme situations.

if a charger that charges at 3 amps should be used long term, when 1.25 amps is supposed to be the correct charging rate for any 12 AH rated battery?

Good question. IDK. 3 amps is recommended to run no more than 6 of my GlowShift gauges so that is not a very high rate of flow. The bike's own charging system would need to charge the battery at a much higher rate than 3 amps or else all it would be able to keep up with is 6 GlowShift gauges. I guess I would find out for sure if 3 amps is safe for charging off some other charging system than the bike's though. Can't answer that one.

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What does the 'battery' display on the bike read when it's going through this 4 hour charging sequence?I'm wondering maybe if your chargers have some sort of 'maintenance' mode built in?

My chargers have a green light indicating the battery's state of charge. If there is no green light, the battery is below 80%. If the green light is flashing, the charge is 80% or more. When the light stays on, the battery has reached 100%. It does have several modes, including a maintenance mode.
Both chargers show the same thing. If I unplug them and connect them to my GS1000, they both show full charge immediately. I know the chargers are working correctly. Just a strange thing I've never seen and even Yuasa can't figure it out. So they're sending me a new Yuasa 3 amp charger recommended by their engineers.
Yuasa's own website says the same thing as all other websites, that a 12 AH should be charged at 10% of it's AH rating, which is 1.2 amps. 3 amps is the maximum charge rate for motorcycle batteries in general. But I think constantly re-charging at the maximum rate instead of the optimum rate will shorten the battery's life. The whole thing just doesn't make sense to me. Neither does Deltran's claim that their 1.25 amp charger will charge a battery as fast or faster than a 3 amp charger.
I'll keep the new charger but I won't use it until I find out more about it. I know this thing isn't a serious problem but I just want to better understand a product I've owned for many years and will own for many more.

Good info there.I guess if it were me,I'd be okay with all that as long as the bike fired right up all the time.It needs 12+ volts to do that.I always(well,usually)look at the voltmeter on the LCD just prior to firing.Just a habit I guess.During cruise..mine normally reads 14+.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/8/2017 @ 12:13 PM *

Couple questions for you.

Without the charger connected to your battery, what is the static voltage? Should be 12.5 or around that.
When the bike is running, what is the battery voltage? Should be high 13 maybe even 14 volts.
After you have been on a ride and turn the bike off, what is the battery voltage? It should be maybe 13 but slowly dropping down to 12.5 volts.

You could have a problem with the charging system on the bike which you will see in voltage while engine running and after your ride. Or you could have a battery that is defective.

Is it a sealed battery? Was it already filled and charged or did you fill it and charge it?

Throwing some thoughts out.

Dave

* Last updated by: david5525 on 11/8/2017 @ 1:22 PM *

If I disconnect the charger, I get about 13.10 volts and it soon settles at about 12.95 volts.
When the bike is running, the volts are about 13.8 to 14.2. The bikes voltage display says about 13.9 to 14.3.
After a ride with the bike off, the voltage is about 12.9. 12.5 would be a very discharged battery, about 75%.
The battery is a Yuasa high performance AGM, which is a sealed battery. I won't buy a "factory filled" battery. I filled it myself, let the electrolyte permeate the plates for 2+ hours, then charged it at 1.25 amps for about 8-9 hours to reach full charge.
The only thing I may have done "wrong" is wait about 8 hours to permanently install the sealing cap after initial charge. I've never done that before and I may have been "thinking too much". The instructions say to place the seal cap loosely over the cell openings, initially charge the battery, let the battery sit 2 hours off the charger, then make sure the volts are at least 12.8, then install the seal. What I did was loosely place the seal cap over the cell openings, charge the battery, let it sit 2 hours, volts were 12.95, but I didn't seal the battery then. I sealed it about 8 hours later. Why? My thinking was the battery's seal cap must be loosely fit as you charge the battery. If the battery voltage should drop, after the initial charge and sitting period, to below 12.8, it would need a second charge, which the instructions seemed to imply (to me). Since I did see the voltage drop from about 13.10 to 12.95 in 2+ hours, I thought I'd let it sit overnight and check it in the morning. In the morning it was still about 12.93 and I installed the seal cap. Now I'm thinking I should've installed the cap after the initial charge without waiting. I couldn't find any info about how critical it is to install the seal cap in a short amount of time, but here's what I think may be happening. If you buy a battery the isn't factory filled, the battery comes with a red seal placed over the cell openings. If that seal had a tear or air leaked into the battery, something happens to the plates (I forget the term) that compromises their ability to accept a charge normally. The plates will still accept the charge, but it will take LONGER. I didn't see any issue with the seal as I removed it. So maybe I waited too long to install the seal and "too much" air got in? With a "loosely" fit cap during initial charge, it seems to me air could get in anyway but maybe not because it was under a charge? With the electrolyte covering the plates after initial charge, could air still get into the plates if you don't immediately seal the battery? I don't know.
I thought I was being cautious but I won't delay sealing a battery anymore. I may be wrong about all this, but it's the only explanation I can come up with for a battery taking so long to re-charge, but passes every other test.

* Last updated by: KAK on 11/9/2017 @ 5:36 PM *

Damn Kak,
You got me man. Sounds like you did everything expected. I can't see how the extra time could mess with the plates.
My 12.5vdc statement on a charged battery was an assumption that you had a lead acid battery which 12.6vdc is full charge just sitting static. The AGM or glass matte batteries are higher as you said. Pretty sure the plates are still submerged when the battery is full so wouldn't think there would be a problem with contamination or what ever they call it if the battery is open. AGM batteries do require a different charging profile. Does your charger have a setting for AGM?

Dave

My charger doesn't have an AGM setting. I don't know of any chargers that do. If you have an AGM battery, you just follow a somewhat different procedure.

12N14A = 12 volt 14 amp battery.
12N12A = 12 volts with 12 amps being a smaller plate per square inch. N being battery post sides I believe.
BS = Battery Acid Supplied.
The point placement and hours to charge = 1.4amp hour battery charger for a 14a battery; charged for 14 hours.
The point placed to the right = 12a battery needs a minimum of a 1.2amp charger and will charge for 12 hours.
Battery Acid weeps into the plates = Minimum of 1 hour saturation time before initial charge.

Example: The 14 comes with a BS type battery. The acid is emptied, the cap strip is hammered down. It can expand and contract with the strip, so also can the screw on caps. So why lose that liquid charged with caps off. Next time.

E = You cannot separate heat from a chemical reaction.

Charge Rates:
1.2a charger should never be used to charge a 14a battery.
1.4a charger or a 1.5a charger is the minimum rated charger for a 14a battery.
3amp charger can boil the water and 'heat' the plate>>> with time feeling the case for excess heat.
10amp charger can boil the water like a water cooler bubble size (exaggerating), rather than champagne bubbles off a glass. So think of the boiling with a higher amp charger and this is where a bubble can wreck a plate in that saturation situation. Thus, the shorter time the higher the amp rate is to be monitored for 'heat.'

Acid:
Watt you are doing is mixing the water with acid. Like water and oil, the more you mix the cloudy it gets, or more like being one chemical. So the mix goes like this...
a. Wait for the saturation time laps before adding the boil time.
b. Literally charge the battery for 14 hours with a 1.4a charger.
c. Use car jumper cables and pinch both high beam and brake light as your draining tool.
d. Let the battery run down to 1 or 2 volts and charge the battery back up for 14 hours [if rated].
e. You do this 3 times so the acid gets mixed real well and has 'memory' for a longer lasting battery life.

Troubleshoot:
Did you prep the battery with said charger rating and 3 times the charm to a BS type? No. No wonder it had a short life.
Does your battery show 12+ volts but won't start the bike? Yes. It's the acid that is not in the mixing stage. It's more oil and water with a 'stir, not shaken' kind of one charge for 3 or less years is that battery life.
Do you use a 1.2a charger to charge a 14a rated battery? Yes. It's more like using a hand lawnmower to mow 10 acres rather than a sit down mower. You are hardly boiling the water-mix and is more breaking even on separation.
Do you more see the chemical reaction on the battery posts that is powder in acid form? Yes. That's where the lack of charge, the air in the case, the acid vapor separating on top of the plates all dried up, the water is out the breather, the volts may show 12v but the AMPS to crank are in a chemical reaction of less acid mixed = No Heat.

Times 3 prep:
Traded in my 2008 [with original battery] for a 2013. Do the math.
Bought a leftover 2009 ape in 2010 and put on less than 4,500 miles. Sold it in 2015 [with the original battery] and hardly charged it. Do the math.

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Thanks for the reply, Hub. As always, I have trouble following you sometimes. I appreciate it none the less.
I charged the battery per Yuasa's instructions. As I said, the extra pre-caution I did this time could be why the battery takes so long to fully charge. I won't do that next time. But when you disconnect a known fully charged battery for just seconds, then reconnect it, and it takes the charger several hours to show a full charge again, it doesn't make sense because I know the battery couldn't discharge that quickly.
My battery's capacity is 12. The AH is 12 according to the outside of the battery case. Yuasa says the "performance class" is 14. Depending on conditions, at a charge rate of 1.4 amps, the battery will take 5-10 hours to reach full charge. Mine charged in about 8 hours, which is right there with batteries I've initially charged in the past. Yuasa and other information sources, say the normal charge rate for a battery is 10% of it's given 10 hour AH rating. In my case, the normal charge rate is 1.2 amps. I charged it with a charger that says it charges at 1.25 amps which is almost optimum.
Yuasa makes chargers that are made to match their batteries, I'd assume. I'm not sure why they don't make a 1.25 amp charger. They make "Powersports" (for motorcycles) chargers that are under 1 amp, 1 amp, 2 amp and 3 amp. The free charger Yuasa is sending me is 3 amp.
I've never heard of anyone initially charging a battery as you describe, but if it works for you, then good. I can't discuss a subject that I don't know enough about. I've always had good luck following Yuasa's instructions. My last Yuasa on my GS1000 lasted 6 years, 11 months. And that's with the bike not being ridden that much. I've had another battery that lasted only 4 years. So things vary.
I don't know why you would "never use a 1.2 amp charger to charge a 14 amp battery". 1.4 would be optimum for longest life, so 1.2 (actually 1.25) is pretty close. The chargers I've seen only come in certain amp classes. The only issue is charging too fast. The "normal" charge rate means the battery will reach full charge without causing excess heat.
On a side note, all this makes me ask another question.
Anyone, when you buy a new battery for your car or truck, do you just install it, or do you charge it first? I've always installed it and that's it. Never gave it any thought until now. What works for a motorcycle should be the same for a car??

* Last updated by: KAK on 11/10/2017 @ 6:48 PM *

I'd just install any new battery. If it's not been sitting on the shelf for 4 months, it should start the vehicle and then the vehicle's charging system should charge it from there on in. The only reason you should ever need to charge any battery whether it's old or new is if it has drawn down from disuse for some time or if your vehicle's charging system is malfunctioning or if there is something wrong with the battery.

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[q]I don't know why you would "never use a 1.2 amp charger to charge a 14 amp battery".[q]
Say a toilet tank holds 1.6 gallons of water so the power [amps] can push the gray matter out of the toilet. Now say you fill the tank with a 16oz cup. While I was in the process of 3x's the charm, I charged the battery with a 1.2a charger, but did not see the 12.8v static charge I was looking for. When I used the 1.5a rated charger on the 14a battery, I got the number. Make some sort of sense of charging [filling] capacity?

Trivia in the Hubthink:
14.7 is atmosphere.
14.7 is the ideal tail pipe number so the spent gas is neutralized out the cat, etc.
14.7 is the backup code for [some] sensor failures.
14.7 is the ideal aim with an 02 sensor in play.
14.7 is watt I see as the E in all this: when I see the cold engine's charging number on the 14's dash display.

So electrically speaking, hows that for a "balanced number" in the E of things?

I too had a discussion with a Yuasa tech for the ape and that dry battery sitting for so long on the dealer's floor. He told me about how they test the competition's batteries, then when thru the 4 stages of liquid saturation time, then drain the battery 3 times. He also said I could use a 10a charger to work the battery back up, but mentioned case heat. So I'd use a 10a to cook it back up, monitored the heat, switched to the 1.2a, noticed the static number reading, switched to the 1.5a, got it to read 12.8; and now you know the story.

What works for a motorcycle should be the same for a car??

Only way to find out is to try it. I'd pull the ECU/ign fuses, turn on the high beams, broomstick the brake pedal to trigger the brake lights on, keep the door open, run the radio loud with the key set to the on position; and wait for the drain to hit 2v. Only a tech call knows for sure.

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Hey KAK,

I've heard the same thing about the initial charging of a new battery (1/10th the Amp-Hour rating of the battery), but I'm guessing that this isn't the rule of thumb for charging after the fact as the motorcycle's charging system most likely doesn't limit the charging of the battery to 1.2A or adjust it to compensate for a different capacity battery.

The 3A charger might be just fine for maintaining or recharging a battery after the initial charge, its also possible that the new charger is able to charge at different raters (1A, 1.5A, 2A, etc). As for why the charger takes 4 hours to show fully charged where the same charger connected to another battery does not is a bit strange. Are these the same kind of batteries (AGM with a similar capacity)? I wouldn't expect Yuasa to send you a charger for their battery that won't work, otherwise you'd be a pretty upset customer and it sounds like they are trying to make you a really happy customer.

Anyone, when you buy a new battery for your car or truck, do you just install it, or do you charge it first? I've always installed it and that's it. Never gave it any thought until now. What works for a motorcycle should be the same for a car??

I asked the tech at the shop about this when buying a new battery for the van, he explained that they charge the batteries before selling them.

Every time I've bought a motorcycle battery it was dry the store poured in the acid and I charged the battery when I got home. I suspect the reason for this difference is the volume of batteries, there are probably many times more car batteries sold per day than motorcycle batteries so the store isn't worried about having a car battery go bad sitting on a shelf for a few days/weeks.

"wouldn't expect Yuasa to send you a charger for their battery that won't work"..stranger things have happenedlol.

Thanks all for the replies. Much appreciated.
Nightmare, you may be right about initial charging rates vs maintenance charging rates being different. I'll have to read up on it. Both AGM batteries are the same Yuasa YTX14H-BS. I've given up trying to figure out why it takes so long to charge the new one. I can unplug the new battery extension lead, get a fully charged read of 12.95 volts or higher, plug it back into the bike after 15 seconds and watch the charger take hours to say the battery is fully charged again.
I also would assume Yuasa would send me a charger that's optimum for their own battery. Again, I've given up on trying to understand. My Deltran's charger says it charges at 1.25 amps, but then as part of it's product description it says it "charges as fast or faster than a 3 amp charger". So I'm not sure what the actual rate is.

Yeah,it sounds like some sort of circuitry having a hard time discerning when a battery 'needs a full charge' after it reads it's dropped only a small amount.I sure wouldn't sweat it long as she's firing up and your bike volts are where they need to be consistently.
A bit odd that Yuasa isn't up on this?Surely yours isn't the only one doing this.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/14/2017 @ 9:45 PM *

"Deltrans Battery Tender Plus, claims it's 1.25 amp charger "charges as fast or faster than competitors 3 amp chargers". How can a 1.25 amp charger be as fast as a 3 amp charger?"...circuitry.That Yuasa is a 5 step charger. Which means...it has a 'battery maintain' function within it.
If it's any consolation,I can have my Shorai totally charged.Remove from pigtail.Let sit for a while,not too terribly long.Hook it back up,push the charge button...and it'll 'charge' for quite some time(in fact,it'll show it's charging until I push the 'store' button.When I push the 'store' button,it'll flash for about ten minutes maybe,then go into a solid lamp...odd,but that's how mine are.The bikes have a very small drain.Clock and all that.I never worry something isn't right.They always fire up fine.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/14/2017 @ 10:05 PM *

Yeah if you think about it... you got a free battery and tender so if the battery works just fine its a win-win for you! :)

If the charging cycle of that battery irritates you a lot, I would suggest don't worry about plugging the battery into the tender during the riding season assuming you ride somewhat often then just plug it in at the end of the season. The bike should easily be able to keep the battery charged and as Grn14 mentioned there's not a lot of draw on the battery while the bike is off.

I normally keep mine on the bikes during winter.My garage gets kinda cold.Which may actually be good for the batteries...hell,IDK.

Free battery and a charger is always good. Some stress though. Amazon first said they wouldn't allow a return because the battery falls in the hazardous materials category. No return=no refund. But they followed up 3 hours later and said "keep it and a refund is coming".
Grn14, cold is good for batteries as long as it isn't too cold or freezing. High temp's aren't good. One negative thing about my new home here in Utah is how hot the garage gets. There's no venting like my California home. I'm not sure how much venting would help anyway. I'm sure it gets over 100 degrees for most of the summer. I thought about opening the garage door a foot or so but that allows the wind to blow in leaves and dust. My city is named "Hurricane" for a good reason. It blows nearly every afternoon. I'm not sure how much the heat shortens the battery's life, but I know it's bad for the battery.