http://www.streetfire.net/video/ferrari-f40-doing-320kmh-200mph_380450.htm

Go watch the speedo mileage. He is using a lot of feet to get up to 321 km/h. The 14, short shifting to 6th gear, takes way less than a mile to run up to 170, imo. You had to be hooking some long miles to get up to that speed if you were not leaving that car behind to boot. The power to weight in my rubber boots some 11 be hooking up with an F-40? Maybe a 1999 Busa could top 200 back then.

Dogo? I need a shovel... It's getting thick and hard to walk in here.

Add $800-1,000 for big piston forks, if you hope to have that on the 2012.

Dollars are adding up. Keep it up, and the list price will hit $18,000 or more.

KHI ain't giving you nothing for free.

Wad are you talking about! That bike was paid for years ago. The money they save without adding oversized pistons to machine. The parts are interchangeable at about average for the production run. This is a 12K bike or it's priced out the window.

Only thing changing is the... front fairing? Dash retro? Same hangers? Same pipes? Maybe a smaller, faster ECU? Mode button like what is with the same tank size? The wasted room in this frame, I could add more gallons. Max the spaces! Someone wants room for a fuel cutter? You do not build bike to make room for crapissing shoot. You lighten the bike so there is no room.

Send in the next projet engineer. Cash waiting for nextop model. Jet me some top flight dish time. "Wee hab hose pow her, no bob lim." Then show it!

Priv, I need to have the hp potential of "hand polished seats" explained to me. I've been racing/modding cars and motorcycles for a long time, and that's a new one on me. In terms of valve "seats", I understand terms such as cutting muti-angles, lapping valves in by hand, etc, but "polished seats"? Your use of that term, in the context you use it, calls into question even a basic knowledge of cylinder head modification for me, as does your more general description of the heads as being "polished". Polishing is only one part of the process of making a better flowing head, and in some areas, can actually be detrimental. I realize that at this point, you can Google a ton of information on cylinder head work and reguritate it here, so I can only go by your original phrasing.

If Kawasaki was selling 200 MPH ZX-11's in the early 90's, and accomplished that feat of speed with no more than "hand polished" headwork and a $1,000 premium, it had to be front page news with the motorcycle rags. Such a factory offering would be akin to the COPO Camaros, for example, and it should be easy to back up a claim like that. It would be something of legend. I can only say that I had a ZX-11C, was very much into what was going on with those bikes and most anything that was fast at the time, and would be very impressed to find a feat like that passed my notice. I certainly don't claim to know it all, and I love to learn. Documentation of your claims, or, ANY verifiable, recorded precedent you can site of an otherwise stock ZX-11 going 200 mph with only "head-polishing" would be educational, to say the least.

Donny hit the nail on the head. HP must be increased exponentially to achieve such feats of speed as reaching 200 MPH. The unlimited Hayabusa of 1999 broke through the 190 mph mark due to, in as large a part as HP, wind-tunnel designed bodywork which made the ZX-11 seem a brick in comparison. That is evidenced by the fact that it was only a couple tenths quicker than the 11 in the 1/4 mile.

The rules of probability are stretched even farther by the conditions in which you describe your own experience. You were able to accomplish, on an urban freeway, what no one to my knowledge had accomplished at Bonnevile or similar facilities. I have a personal friend who has a turbo GSXR 1000, set up specifically for the purpose of breaking 200 mph at the Texas Mile. Pure race bike, not street legal. I can say without equivocation that his bike would make a ZX-11 with head work look like it's going backwards.

I find most, if not all of the rest of your comparisons of the 11 & 14 to be equally out of touch with reality. But let's retain focus on the 200 MPH bikes, as those other comparisons can be subjective. We'll stick with what you claim as fact. Facts can be verified.

I've read enough of your posts to know that you would demand no less of another forum member making similar claims, and, as such, will not take these questions personally. Your relation of Occams Razor to KHI evolving the ZX-14 is an interesting application of that theory. Applying the same theory to your claims, I arrive at the most logical and simple answer; it's pure fantasy. To remain within the bounds of what you feel appropriate on a personal level, I'll quote your response to RED in the "2010 Flies out" thread. "I don't believe you."

* Last updated by: progrocker on 9/28/2011 @ 2:06 AM *

I was on the ZX11 and it was doing 200, and the F40 was too, and we weren't in a race, we were both curious to see how fast we could go. And we had about 7-8 miles to run up to speed, as we came onto the 280 up north, just above Palo Alto heading south, and started braking at about exit 10 into San Jose.

If you chose not to believe that, I have absolutely no way to prove otherwise.

Most of you have never done anything close to that, anything quite as crazy.

Dublin Kawasaki did some of the work on mine as well, you can look them up in the Bonneville record books.

But none of this is even the point. The point is, I know for a fact what it costs to build high performance bikes and cars. I've done it over and over during my lifetime. Which means I was drag racing before half of you were born.

The point is that every little thing KHI does to wring performance out of the ZX14 engine starting with bore and stroke starts adding significant costs. Hub thinks the ZX14 is all paid for, but he doesn't understand that you have to accept capital costs on manufacturing and engineering both that won't be paid off for a decade or perhaps two. Even if those costs were all completely sunk, as Hub contends, in 2005, they still won't be paid off for a few years.

When Harley Davidson makes a CVO (Custom Vehicle Operations) version of one of their models, the price goes up correspondingly for each widget they include with the CVO model. Otherwise, they'd be giving money away.

Same goes for stroker cranks, bigger pistons, bigger valves, bigger throttlebodies, whatever you might hope KHI gives us with the 2012 ZX14R, each new widget added increases the price. Because KHI will pass the component costs to the customers, like any business concerned with staying in business.

http://www.sportrider.com/bikes/146_9704_kawasaki_zx_11_bonneville/photo_09.html

Credible. If there is one thing I try to be is credible. No BS info. This is a race bike that is massaged on. It may turn to a street bike, but not with 197 mph jetting. Did you jet up that day? I mean, you need to sell this guy that bike of yours. He's doing something wrong, yes or no?

I want a black and white answer like you get the jibby from me I'll hold my breath now and wait.

Now, a guy wrapped a stock 11 around a bullet and he went 270mph with that bike. Did you have half a bullet on your front end that day?

Let me rejib that. He pulled a stock engine out of an 11. Wrapped your joe average LSR bullet looking aluminum rail over that stock engine. A stock engine running 270 is not bad; way back then. Do that with the 14 see WOT happens with that antique number.

Were you LSR'dat day? Wrap me a good story now.

* Last updated by: Hub on 9/28/2011 @ 7:20 AM *

Actually responding to you, Hub, is a waste of time. So I won't. Ever.

Most people have no idea what Occam's Razor is, let alone a bunch of motorcycle gear heads! KHI needed to update the 14, its currently on its 6th model year -- eternity for m/c models, good for current owners (cheap parts). So, we need not go into scientific theories of how models are developed for scientific comparison; we are not scientists. Simply put, its time for a new superbike! As I said, I had a 92 ZX11, it was a C2 model, I did tons of mods to it; ported/polished head, suspension, teflon coated skirts on the pistons, ceramic header, and tons of other $$ that gave me nothing in trade in time on the 954. So, I'm no longer going silly-crazy on mods to increase performance. The only mods I will do now is tires, and suspension, and maybe comfort aiding mods like GPS, bags, etc. These motors are perfect as is, change the oil and filter often, you're good to go.

I flat out don't buy that you were going 200 mph on a C model next to an F40. You are exaggerating this story, and your speedometer is lying to you, and, the very real fact that at speeds of 150+ mph you will experience every little crack, bump in the road and have it magnified 100 fold into the bike -- so, being able to watch your speedo at that speed AND getting an accurate reading is Bullshit. When I used to do high-speed runs on my 11 (back in my more dumb days) I could never accurately read the dash, you are bouncing all over the place, tucked in, and concentrating on your control of the m/c.

This new 14 will have more power, better everything, but the same performance as the current model as it will be heavily controlled with electronic interfaces, it will likely continue in the perceived acceleration rush as the stock 14 now has, which will give the rider the seat in the pants impression of a powerful machine. Plus, KHI can't afford to be seen as sitting on their laurels, they have an image of power and performance formed in the early 70s with their H2, H3, Z900, bikes I remember vividly when I was a kid riding my bicycle all over Laconia NH taking in the spectacle of the annual M/C weekend, this new 14 will continue this trend.

Dogo? I need a shovel... It's getting thick and hard to walk in here.

Priv,

Then you'll have to waste a lot more time with Donny and prog. All I asked was a simple yes or no and you are done. There are now two opinions that question your two ton day. I brought in a very highly modified bike that cannot even top 199, and you figure that was more a 196.6990 just so they could tip that scales and round it off to 197 say.

I may agree in the high 180's. But to chase 196 and change? You had to be spot on the baro/temp/ambient chasing records. You so happened to hook up with someone and it was never touched since you got it back from what's his name.

My ZX11C had all the Muzzy/aftermarket internal hard parts I could buy for it, but would have needed a rocket strapped to my ass to achieve 200 mph, sorry. That bike was absolutely awesome for it's time, and I still own it's direct descendant, a ZZR 1200, so I'm not working from fond memory. That bike is a dinosaur when compared head to head with a 14, as would be expected. I'd still like to see documentation that KHI sold ZX-11's with factory headwork for an additional $1000 over sticker. Ever.

Donny, the repeated reference to Occams Razor..well, I couldn't resist. My tongue was planted firmly in my cheek on that one. I just found bringing that therory into a discussion about ZX-14 evolution on a motorcyle forum to be bizarre, especially when followed by the 200 mph ZX-11 story.

I don't know why it's so hard to believe that KHI would make some investment in evolving the 14 to keep it viable. Retooling for crank/rods/pistons, etc, to be made in mass production, is far less an investment risk than a new bike. We've already seen Suzuki do it with a bike that's had a much longer run. More cost effective to tweak an existing design than to invest in the R&D and attendant tooling for an all-new model.

Given the current world economy, the gamble that total redesigns will pay off is greater than ever. Holding on to the basic platform of the 14, perhaps fixing some of it's weaker design points like suspension, and spicing it up with an increase in CC's seems very plausable to me. This thread is mainly speculation, but it seems like 1440 CC's is a done deal. KHI's teaser, combined with simple math, certainly seem to support that. Adding the "R" designation also suggests some beefing of the suspension, etc. Given that the R&D has already been done for active electronics like traction control, it makes sense for KHI to piggyback those systems onto the 14, espcially with a power increase as part of the equasion.

If I had owned a 14 for a couple or more years and invested in mods to personalize it, I can see these changes as not being sufficient to lure me away from a bike that I'm happy with. I only purchased my 14 about 6 weeks ago. Am I a little disappointed with the timing? Well, yeah, just a little. My 14 is a 2010 that had been on the dealer's floor, and came with price incentives I wouldn't benefit by with a new model. I've already begun to mod the bike with bolt-ons, but, I'm done with extensive/internal mods. The 14 we have now is crazy fast, and even here in North TX, I can't find enough space to use it to it's full potential. Despite all of that, the kid in me is anxious for 10-10 anyway...

If my stock zx14 will do 190 with the stock horsepower....I honestly can't see any reason why the new bike with what,1440 cc's(that's how much more HP?)won't at least top 200.If I'd have had a few more HP on mine,I'd be in the 200 club myself.Anyone sayin you can't look at the speedo at that velocity on the 14 is...well...hmmmm.Personally,I didn't feel every crevice or crack in the road(course,there weren't(aren't)many.At that speed....focusing on the road is almost a non issue.If something goes very wrong...yer done.You look where you want to go....in this case...on the two lane center(WAY down the road)...and the bike will naturally steer straight down the line.There is no 'steering the bike' to speak of.My bike held the line very nicely.And wasn't vibrating or anything excessively for going that speed.I was(am) able to look briefly at my speedo,and it's not shaking all over the place(like you see in VIDEO CAMERA footage).My helmet and head wasn't doing the flipty flop at all.In fact,there was NO WIND behind the screen.None.Just the sound of the screamin 1352 in all it's glory!!!!

* Last updated by: blue07 on 9/28/2011 @ 3:13 PM *

I was on my 11 doing high-speed runs, and if you don't agree that at those high speeds the road flaws are not magnified then you are not tuned into your bike and surroundings, it's not a sit on it venture, it's feeling from the footpegs, wind, eyesight/lines, active and attentive scanning for critters on the road here in TX. I know my 14 will do every bit of what the 11 did, I just don't care to run up that high anymore -- perfectly content short shifting it and feeling the torque. No problem on the Occam's Razor, I laughed, I too used it, but when I did it got me in a bit of trouble with the US Army. Just google me; SFC Donald Buswell and you can read that particular email! haha.

Donny, what part of TX are you in? I'm in DFW...mid-cities. Have to agree about looking at the speedo on a top speed run, guess it could be a matter of comfort level. Covering ground that quickly and diverting my attention for even a split second is out of my personal comfort zone.

Blue, not trying to be argumentative, but the difference between 190 and 200 mph is as big as the Grand Canyon is wide, due to the extreme effect of drag at those speeds.. Do some research and see what you come up with. Pretty facinating, and not what you might expect from, say, 150 to 160, for example. The need for more HP does increase exponentially.

One thing not good update here. They went with those ugly mirror directional lights instead of the highly acceptable mirrors of old. bad choice. Need to get rid of those right away like the rear fender....but what do you do for front directionals? maybe a blackout treatment on the lense will fix that. NO They are just as ugly and clunky looking as the ZX-10's mirrors/flashers. I would need to figure out a way to mod into in fairing flashers and go with bar end mirrors..

* Last updated by: Rook on 9/28/2011 @ 9:35 PM *

I have a friend of mine from the local dealer that's going to the show.I told him to send me pix!!!

Agreed, Rook. Those mirrors look like they came from an SUV. And what happened to the seat cowl? Don't care for the grab handle either. I can live with it (but don't like it) on my ZZR-1200, but prefer the sleeker look of the tail of the 14 w/cowl.

Matter of taste, but to my eye, no improvement in aesthetics..just a little different.

* Last updated by: progrocker on 9/28/2011 @ 10:20 PM *

If they put the winkers in the mirrors = Sold! If they did not raise the bar... That rr is looking faster and cheaper the older I get.

What is the fastest production motorcycle? Short answer: there isn’t one. Since 2001, the major motorcycle manufacturers have been adhering to a “gentlemen’s agreement” to limit their hyper-bikes to 186 mph (300 km/h). You may ask why would manufacturers who sell bikes based on astronomical performance numbers “agree” to this. Simply put, they did not want Asian, European, and North American governments to place outside restrictions on them.

In the late 90s, there was a growing push in both Europe and America to place import limitations on open-class motorcycles due to their ever expanding speed ceiling. Societal and rider safety was clearly the reason. You may ask, “What’s the difference between a 186 mph crash and a 200+ mph crash?” Probably not much. Both would reap total and spectacular destruction. However, for manufactures to seemingly promote such reckless quests for speed by advertising astronomical top speeds, would be a public relations nightmare. It would also surely attract negative governmental attention.

In effect, what the restrictions have done is change the question to, “What is POTENTIALLY the fastest motorcycle?” You know what I’m getting at here. We motorcyclists are chronic modifiers. An exhaust system here, an intake de-restriction there, and a computer remap to eliminate the “gentlemen’s agreement” settings – then what’s the fastest? Do we really need to know? On the drag strip, yes. On public streets, definitely not.

Let me give you a little author perspective here, lest you think I’m some kind of anal-retentive, Vespa pilot. I own a very fast motorcycle – one that produces over 150 horsepower and has a top speed somewhere north of 180 mph. Yes, I sometimes ride fast – sometimes I’m too loose with my adherence to posted speed limits (especially when the road gets twisty). However, I have never hit the speed limiter on my motorcycle. An unexpected pothole or a deer at those speeds would ruin my whole day.

Now you may ask, “Then why do you own a really fast motorcycle?” There is a simple answer – POTENTIAL is a cool thing. Riding something that COULD go 180+ is exhilarating. Also, most really fast motorcycles are a blast to ride at more reasonable speeds. I simply would not have as much fun on a 60 horsepower motorcycle. Plus, who knows, if Armageddon happens, I may NEED to outrun a billowing nuclear cloud at 185 mph. Then the risk would probably be worth it!

I would like to shoot anyone that brings up that 186 myth. Shoot you for stepping on others turf. Turf you have no business controlling. You bunch of mothers belly sucking sap sucking up to you gov waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa I can't drive 55!

Bunch of belly aching... We would have been on a GP bikes already ya pappy wannnaaannnnnnnnnnwwwwwwwwwww, yes dear!

Rook & progrocker,

That is an obvious photochop. Doesn't look anything like the KHI leaked shots on the vid. The grab handle is correct for the current version 14 and is also the same grab handle for a ZX-11D as it turns out. Euro spec bikes come with the grab handle and no passenger seat cowl. Anyway.. Photochopped, so relax.

Sheesh...To Donny....maybe your zx11 suspension wasn't set for those kind of speeds?IDK.I just roll on the throttle,get comfy tucked in.Make my body adjustments as she gathers steam.Adjust for any odd windflow...and that's it.190 comes up pretty quick...but my bike feels VERY SMOOTH.I can't say about anyone else's.I certainly wouldn't want to try and convince anyone about their experience here.It's theirs.All I can say is...my bike is smooth as glass at top speed.

And as for that pic of the blue zx.That's a photoshopped pic.The new bike does not have zx10 style mirrors.The missing 'seat cowl'....ahem...that pic is showing(falsely)a Euro version....the zzr1400.Of old.NOT the new zx14R.

If you compare the pic there with the one on the older copy of YoungMachine....you'll see the front was 'installed' on the blue one there.That front is a pic of the 'new' zzr1400....WAY before there was any talk about a REAL zx14R coming out.It's not real.It's someone's imagination at YoungMachine in Japan.It was being 'compared' at that time to the C-14.They photoshopped what they wanted to think was a 'new' 14 'supercharged' version.You can see it most likely if you go into their mag archives from early this year.The front is the same one.Including the mirrors.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 9/29/2011 @ 1:08 AM *

Stole this from the pond. "Air cleaners look mean." No shit!

Talked to a fine young man last night who just got back from Japan, 220 hp is all he would tell me.