Easier to study.

Much easier... Thanks DogoZX.

Gotta wonder why they chose that particular pic of the lump. It shows a few subtle changes but completely omits the head & intake.... Like KHI doesn't want us looking too close at what hasn't actually changed... Or perhaps they are holding back the biggest secret for the premiere?

* Last updated by: motoCycho on 10/6/2011 @ 12:58 AM *

Much easier... Thanks DogoZX.

Gotta wonder why they choose that particular pic of the lump. It shows a few suddle changes but completely omits the head & intake.... Like KHI doesn't want us looking too close at what hasn't actually changed... Or perhaps they are holding back the biggest secret for the premiere?

You're welcome... you could see a bit more in the vid, but those screenshots were the best I could do... all the flashing and crap made it tough! lol

Did some digging, and found these pics from the 2006 release to better compare:

* Last updated by: DogoZX on 10/6/2011 @ 1:04 AM *

Ya...thanks Dogo.I'm intrigued though by that clutch/sprocket cover.If I didn't know better,it looks like it MAYBE screws off of there somehow.Is that possible?And why would they make getting to the front sprocket easier?HHmmmmmm.I'm no engine dude...but it looks like some pretty good sized water jackets,if that's what they are.Maybe they wanted to show that part of it for whatever reason.What else could go on top there?Besides the valves and such.Those two larger open 'ducts' at the rear of the head there...what are those?I don't see those on the earlier engine pic...seems like they'd be visible at that angle.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 10/6/2011 @ 1:14 AM *

There are thousands of parts on a bike and engine, if you add them all up. Yes, that big cover comes off you see bolts sprinkled around it. Whatever looks big, it is one of thousands of parts, nuts, bolts, wire harness(s) paint and more parts is parts.

I'm no engineer so correct me if I get this wrong. See the round piston? Think like X+Y=Z, or Z reps 3-dimensions. Or, we grind and file a part in two directions. Low and behold we have a 3rd angle and that is the physical part out of a block of aluminum.

Look at it like, horizontal + vertical. Bore is that piston that grows 4mm [is] the alleged growth in piston size. Look at the piston dome or top of the head there. No matter if you score it in half like a pill out of a bottle, 2mm goes on one side, 2mm on the other. Look at it, as if it is a pie. Score that line down the middle in the X, you already did Y lookey there! We have a pie cut 4 ways. Slip 1mm at each pie we have a rounded out 4mm wider bore.

Who said water jackets are close? Funny, but I'm looking at that cutout engine at a new bike show. Rickey and his dad walk up behind me and I ask Rickey a question. His answer was immediately riveted to the bore. I mean, he wanted to see how much he could get away with >> boring the cylinder. Rickey wanted to see how far between jackets he'd find water. And then, you still have your memory, Rickey? Some guy out of the blue started to explain back pressure to the 3 of us. Rickey's dad and I had a little chuckle. As fast as we turned around to see who was getting it wrong, the guy was off the soap box and off he went.

_________________________________________________________________________________________

Did you see the X'Y'ing on the piston bore and all that? I don't know if a cast is in play for smaller water jackets to compensate; it's cutting it close. Be that as it may, it keeps getting worse if you look at that piston or how it is connected. See the rod, blue? That big part on the bottom is the crank. The rod is the connecting rod. The piston is bored out by 4mm. If we leave the bore alone, yeah, it would be border edge out of square. But that is a guess on my part.

What is to say you add proportion to the Y of that X piston. In other words, X is the bore and Y is the stroke. We bore by 4, lets stroke by 4, so we are back to [square] one; in proportion there of. Again, I would grow Y as I would grow X, if I were to design an engine. Cough-cough, I would not shrink a water jacket, but grow that water, cough, rather than shrink it. Are YOu are looking at an old gen engine family? We might see a new engine plant altogether, [allegedly speaking].

Getting back to filling the hours waiting... How are you going to pie cut that 4mm to the rod length? Would you not; push the pin up into the rings by 2mm? You would also have to add 2mm more at the bottom rod length. Are we catching the X to Y factors? Could the engine grow, the ECU shrink, the wire harness be shorter; we reduce weight at all the right place IS...

Next!...

I'm intrigued though by that clutch/sprocket cover.If I didn't know better,it looks like it MAYBE screws off of there somehow.Is that possible?

Don't know about that, Blue... Looks like there are still bolts holding it on... You can see a couple on the top of the cover and one holding the speed sensor.

Those two larger open 'ducts' at the rear of the head there...what are those?I don't see those on the earlier engine pic...seems like they'd be visible at that angle.

Those are on the current motor also... Crankcase vents, I think... They have covers over them in the '06 motor pic... Plus the '06 motor has the head on it, the 2012 does not... Haven't been able to find a good cut away photo of the current motor.

Right now it looks pretty much the same as a current ZX14 motor....

If current (1352) motor is 84x61mm, and 2012 (1440) is 84x65mm piston bore is unchanged, no? Only incease is in the stroke.

Right now it looks pretty much the same as a current ZX14 motor....

Other than that external oil line for the sqirters...
Stands to reason that the deck would be taller on the new motor... but plenty of 4mil strokers been done on the current platform so dunno? I know there are issues that need addressed to do a 5mil stroker though. Since they went with 4mil maybe deck is the same.

If stroke is longer, the squirters make sense to insure oiling.

Front oilers cool the skirt's wall. No water there anymore. New engine family = Hello!

Don't you whoosh you owned one! Look at the rear integrated rear cylinder wall with the whooshoemecallit. Blowfuckingshit!

Pee Your Heaven = RockCANRoll! WATTime is it?

Where did that engine cutaway come from? I keep looking at that cut line, it both cools the wall and has a little skirt shooter up the wazoo as a pressure feed oiler. Where is MM when you wanna sea something HOT!

DogoZX, I'm wondering how Carpenter will adjust his prices once the 2012 is out? Or if he will adjust them at all.

Ya Dogo...I noticed the bolts holding that on there when Hub posted.My bad.So having a longer stroke means what now?Assuming the internals all spin at the same speed as the present motor.

Number 2 and 3 pistons have that triangular shaped passage in front.Wonder why the other pistons don't have that?Something is definitely gotta be different for that oiler rail to be sitting right there.The fan and Rad are right in there,along with the headers,right?So the motor has to be redesigned to fit where it's supposed to be in the frame geometry?If I didn't know better,I'd swear the frame looks noticeably narrower than the earlier bikes.If that's right,then the width of the bike may just be significantly narrower.Lot less weight to deal with,and more slippery in the windflow.

I think on one of those vids someone there said something about the new bike's ability to surprise everyone with it's newfound handling.Gonna be very cool.Less weight,quicker nimbler handling,1440 cc's.Hmmmm...This bike is gonna be the shizit!

I just hope they didn't make it TOO skinny.I guess there's not much chance of that!WHAT was I thinking?

* Last updated by: blue07 on 10/6/2011 @ 12:10 PM *

WOW you can get 2011 ZX14s on the east coast now for barely over 10,000 USD NEW !

Where did that engine cutaway come from?

It's just a screenshot from the teasr vid... Like everything else they've "shown" us about the bike, it looks digitally created.

If stroke is longer, the squirters make sense to insure oiling.

Since when has Kaw cared about adequate oiling?
But yeah, I'm thinking going external will allow for higher volume and better cooling???

DogoZX, I'm wondering how Carpenter will adjust his prices once the 2012 is out? Or if he will adjust them at all.

I think they'll stay the same... maybe get a little lower if some of the new factory parts could be used at a lower cost... but doubt it... Those packages are proven performers. Don't see them changing.

So having a longer stroke means what now?Assuming the internals all spin at the same speed as the present motor.

Someone else can explain it way better than I can... but bacially the stroke is the distance the piston travels in the cyclinder.

* Last updated by: DogoZX on 10/6/2011 @ 12:15 PM *

WOW you can get 2011 ZX14s on the east coast now for barely over 10,000 USD NEW !

If I read into that... price for new bike is gonna be competative.

I think it means, more likely, DogoZX, that dealers know the 2012 will kill the sales of 2011 and prior years, and they are trying to dump their stock of 2011 and 2010 bike ASAP.

Also, dealers have a fixed $ amount they can have in inventory float. Until they move those 2011s out, they are limited to how many new bikes they can afford to place on the showroom floor.

* Last updated by: privateer on 10/6/2011 @ 12:33 PM *

Here is how stroke works if you think using 3 variables to explain how she spins like all the rest:

1. Correct me if I am wrong. I do not profess to be an expert, justhe shit that makes sense to me. I am a rod. If I have a piston over my ears, WOT did you say? I can't hear you! That is dead center down the line to the crank journal throw on the crank. That means, we either place it at TDC or BDC. Lets spin the crank and move that piston up and down. You need to ask yourself; if you wanted to assemble an engine, would you install that connecting rod in any old direction after reading #2?

2. Correct me warring banner is outwo lunch for a second time. If I act the see-saw, look at my fulcrum point. I have no change but move either up or down. I need something called, 'offset' to move from BDC [PAST] TDC. Simply stated another way, I will remain straight up in direction and stop like a see-saw without the rod having to move past TDC somehow, or it hangs dead and cannot flop over to go back down.

There is so much tolerance built into each part. Imagine an engine knock or a rod knock. If that small offset of the rod being able to flop over, it quickly looses that 2mm offset and reverts back to trying to stop dead at bottom dead center or top dead center is that knock and then out the case it goes.

You have to imagine that each part slips on that oil and what little air gap it has for expansion. When the whole piston to rod is assembled, there is a valve pocket [on top of the dome] that is bigger than the other pocket. That is cold air needing more volume to move air [is the intake valve]. However, we know hot air travels faster, so you pick which way the piston is assembled you can't figure out that part of the flop over.

As stated, any engine only assembles one way for a reason. You now have to think 2mm offset and without measuring 1mm for the piston is a given, how about that con rod offset? Turn the rod 180 and is not that hole offset to flop the other way or we are back to neutral we add the opposites together? Either way, notice how the piston can move in either direction we swap the same flop over with rod adding that mm in the opposite direction? Make sense about flopping and popping rod out the case if assembly is not checked? Catch the hot rodding, extending reach around on #3.

3. This last part is about hang time. The longer the piston hangs, the more each fuel molecule can burn and heat that air to expand it; slamming that piston down for all it's 'power stroke' can stroke. Period. Once that rod comes around on the crank swing, that extra milli of hang time of extra rod length is all about fuel efficiency. Think burning time is all about millions of seconds you want to keep burning out that initial suck of AFR.

* Last updated by: Hub on 10/6/2011 @ 12:56 PM *

It means, the rod is slower the longer it hangs. Short rods spin faster and the torque is higher up in the rpm band.

Long rod engines, take time on the rod length extension. Takes loner for the crank throw to come around is that fulcrum point to hold that piston there longer.

With the crazy prices I'm hearing someone is calc'ing out like a 10K form, I'm going to jump ship for sure. I'll buy HA harley for the same amount of money, chop it and still not lose my skid marks.

I think it means, more likely, DogoZX, that dealers know the 2012 will kill the sales of 2011 and prior years, and they are trying to dump their stock of 2011 and 2010 bike ASAP.

Also, dealers have a fixed $ amount they can have in inventory float. Until they move those 2011s out, they are limited to how many new bikes they can afford to place on the showroom floor.

There ya go, Priv... bursting everyone's bubble again. lol

It means, the rod is slower the longer it hangs. Short rods spin faster and the torque is higher up in the rpm band.

Long rod engines, take time on the rod length extension. Takes loner for the crank throw to come around is that fulcrum point to hold that piston there longer.

^^^--Told you someone could explain it better than me. ---^^^

Now combine that extra low end grunt with a 500rpm higher redline (11k on new tach in RG vid), and

Ya..okay..thanks Hub.I WAS wondering if the longer stroke would create a slower turning engine...but...if lighter materials are used...guess that'll make up for any "longer" piston travel,right?Now...back to some time earlier...way earlier.I noticed my friend's Busa seemed to turn faster at any given rpm...like blipping the throttle mainly.It just seemed quicker.Am I wrong?The Busa pistons maybe have a shorter stroke?Or lighter internals?Or both?I know...it's a iffy question...lots of other things can impact the engine speed also,yes?Like timing or fuel type?Oil viscosity?

* Last updated by: blue07 on 10/6/2011 @ 1:38 PM *

DogoZX wrote:

There ya go, Priv... bursting everyone's bubble again. lol

Well, maybe bursting unrealistic bubbles from time to time.

Folks forget, dealers are hurting. Sales are down. They can't have a bunch of bikes sitting around not selling. They can't buy a bunch of 2012s that sell while 2011s sit in the showroom. That is the start of bankruptcy.

Its the same with the 2012 ZX14. KHI doesn't have a tree in the backyard that money grows on. They have a set amount of $ budgeted for each year for the next 10 years to spend on new bikes. With the tsunami problems which hurt all large corporations in Japan, and the world economic problems, I'm sure they also went through the strategic plan and cut things to keep from going in the red.

So if they spend 50% of the 2012 new bike budget on the ZX10 (likely) and 1% on the C14 (almost certain, all that is changing is a) replaceable battery in the tire pressure sending units, and b) possibly vibration damped handlebars. Then they have some kicking new ATVs which cost money to engineer and build, and I hear improvements coming in the Vulcan bagger because they think its making inroads against Star and Harley. So some portion of the 49% left is used up by niche products and powersports because KHI is making a lot of money from dirt bikes, off road racing, and ATVs.

Whatever is left went to the engineering and tooling and CNC programming and line modifications to make the new 2012 bikes.

My point is, they are not going to subsidize the costs involved, the consumer is going to pay the costs in increased product prices.

Thats just a fact of micro-economics and retail/wholesale business. Consumer cost = amortized engineering cost plus actual manufacturing cost plus actual distribution cost plus actual governmental costs plus actual profit margin.

Clearly there are significant engineering efforts involved, and manufacturing will be more costly at least for a couple years, and if it bumps up against the 200 HP realm the governmental costs will go up, and if their overhead (including residuals from the tsunami and stock market melt down) has increased, the profit margin will increase to try to sink some of the residuals.

I.E., TANSTAAFL - there ain't no such thing as a free lunch - somebody has to pay.