Don't you whoosh you owned one!

me no buy....no buy no buy no buy no buy

longer rods = longer stroke. The volume of space filled throughout each rev is more if the stroke is longer even if the diameter of the cylinder stays the same. Here we have a longer stroke and a larger cylinder diameter. Double whammy hike in displacement!!!!

Me no buy either. No more Mr. Fastest Kawasaki Forever.

Me buy Concours 14 maybe. Or BMW.

Me have perfectly excellant ZX14 to sport tour with until me do new bike thing.

Me happy, know me not have to stay in rat race.

I.E., TANSTAAFL - there ain't no such thing as a free lunch - somebody has to pay.

You never dined and dashed?

Here we have a longer stroke and a larger cylinder diameter. Double whammy hike in displacement!!!!

Me no buy either. No more Mr. Fastest Kawasaki Forever.

Me buy Concours 14 maybe. Or BMW.

Me have perfectly excellant ZX14 to sport tour with until me do new bike thing.

Me happy, know me not have to stay in rat race.

ROTFLMAO!

You wait.

You buy.

It's not so much that it can go 200...or whatever.There's not much you can do at 200.It's for me the refinements in rideability that make it or break it.The whole power thing is great...just great...but delivering it in a package that makes you want to keep riding every time...that's the deal.I never get tired of riding my 14 cause it rides so smooth and strong.It's FUN to ride.Not a chore.Not muscling it all over and worrying about scraping floorboards and not having sufficient kick to pass safely and all.Having plenty of kick when I want to be a bit koo koo.But docile enough to cruise at 60,65,75 or so and be completely happy with that.AND RELIABLE...did I mention I've never had to replace any mechanical parts on my bike in 51,000+ miles.No oil leaks.No loss of performance from any defect.Just continuous trust in it's ability tp get me from here to there and back again without worry.That means a lot to me...more than anything else.I KNOW this new bike is gonna be even BETTER....I can hardly wait to go see it in person.I know my dealer's gonna order (me)up one.Even though it'll be 'for sale'....he's really gonna have me in mind when he gets it.He's funny that way .

Well.. based on the current engine dimensions, 84x61 and the teaser vid that shows 84x65 it's pretty clear it's getting stroked. I don't know why I thought it was getting a bore over. Clearly I got confused at some point.. pretty sure I wasn't the first or only one, was I? If so, sorry about that.

Any leaks on suspension set ups? Showa BPFs maybe? Different placement of the rear shock or better accessability? I am drooling in anticipation! Reminds me of being a kid on X-Mas eve waiting for X-Mas day to finally get there so I could see what's under the tree!!!!

Clearly I got confused at some point.. pretty sure I wasn't the first or only one, was I? If so, sorry about that.

Nuttin' to be sorry for... We're all a little confused... but it's excusable considering all the blood is leaving our brains and rushing towards our .

Any leaks on suspension set ups? Showa BPFs maybe? Different placement of the rear shock or better accessability? I am drooling in anticipation! Reminds me of being a kid on X-Mas eve waiting for X-Mas day to finally get there so I could see what's under the tree!!!!

Nothing yet, but I'd be surprised if it did not get BPF's... seams the new standard for Kawi sportbikes... they gotta be calling it a zx14r, this time, for some reason... More sport, less tour is my guess.

DogoZX wrote:

"I.E., TANSTAAFL - there ain't no such thing as a free lunch - somebody has to pay."

You never dined and dashed?

Naw. Thats something loser punks do.

My dealer folks are going to the big live unveiling of new 2012 Kawasaki products put on by, of course, Kawasaki USA this weekend, and said call them mid-week next week and they will give me the scoop on the exact details.

Kawk gives the dealers full spec sheets at this yearly bash. Maybe I can get a photocopy of the ZX14 sheet.

I'm more interested in the C14 specs, to know if they fixed the buzzy handgrips and gave it replaceable batteries for the TPS. Both I could mod and fix, but hoping I wouldn't have to.

Heck, Spiegler sells an LSL conversion for the Concours 14, I bet it does as much for the C14 as it did for my ZX14.

If the stroke of the current engine is 61 mm, and the new one is 65 mm, it HAS received an increased stroke of 4 mm, not just an increase of bore diameter. But increased stroke is accomplished with a longer crankshaft throw. The piston pin height is adjusted accordingly, so the piston does not protrude out of it's bore at the top, and the increased 4 mm of travel is all at the bottom of the piston's stroke, increasing cylinder volume. Add that to the increased bore size, and you've made a significant gain in the total displacement (cubic centimeters of fuel/air capacity) of the cylinder.

If the rod length has changed, it has been done to maintain proper geometry to accompany the increase in the throw of the crank. It is not the mechanical means by which the stroke is increased. I only wish that it were; the stroker motors in my hot rods would have been far cheaper to build :)

I have no idea how much meat is in the current cyclinder wall, but generally, only relatively small increases can be safely attained by overbore of an existing cylinder before the walls become too thin. Likely that the cylinder block is a new casting.

Apparently the bore remains the same.. 84mm.

Nothing yet, but I'd be surprised if it did not get BPF's... seams the new standard for Kawi sportbikes... they gotta be calling it a zx14r, this time, for some reason... More sport, less tour is my guess.

Yeah, seems to be standard for the industry... the new GXSR, CBR and ZX10 all have BPFFs now. I think you're right, more sport less touring with the "R" designation... And I am all in for the increase in engine capacity and power! Can't wait to see one! But I think that there shouldn't be too much tweaking needed on the electronics pakage - IF it's offered, it's already proven and used in the C14 and now the ZX10 so there should'nt be any issues unsing off the shelf proven components...

Price wise, who knows? IMO to keep people from turning to the Busa or the ZX10, I think they aren't going to put the bar too high above where it already is, maybe 1-2k (w/electronics) above current pricing max...jm2c.

Cam opening, throttle subs or not subs, but in the air cleaner gate says speed difference, if we go way back on the busa. Here is how you gauge if it is rod length, or how square is the box from X to Y? Now, you take that crank to throttle kick by looking up the busa's bore and stroke. See how square or how short the rods are in proportion to the old 14's numbers. Get where that crank speed comes in if we see the busa is shorter in rod to the 14's rod? I.E., In proportion there of is that rod length = A faster spinning engine with less hang time.

* Last updated by: Hub on 10/6/2011 @ 6:18 PM *

Remember, blue, I have to exaggerate the micro. You see the little picture, you see the big picture. That long stroke was for race only. Just so you understand all that fulcrum to keep burning fuel.

Without touching the stroke, a 4mm bore could change the note of the engine.

An oval throttle body that is narrowed down, did not grow out with the bore vs. spigot positions.

Another page of guess what the press kit reads?

* Last updated by: Hub on 10/6/2011 @ 6:39 PM *

Naw. Thats something loser punks do.

Agreed... but some go through a punk stage. lol

Kawk gives the dealers full spec sheets at this yearly bash. Maybe I can get a photocopy of the ZX14 sheet.

That would be SWEET!

I'm more interested in the C14 specs, to know if they fixed the buzzy handgrips and gave it replaceable batteries for the TPS. Both I could mod and fix, but hoping I wouldn't have to.

I'd be more curious to find out if/when the Connie is gonna get stroked.

Price wise, who knows? IMO to keep people from turning to the Busa or the ZX10, I think they aren't going to put the bar too high above where it already is, maybe 1-2k (w/electronics) above current pricing max...jm2c.

Hope so... Priv's "no free lunch" stance is valid... but I don't think they'd pass all the costs on to the consumer... atleast not immediately. The new bike will likely remain virtually unchanged for 6 years... Plenty of time for them to recoup R&D costs, IMO.

Man, I haven't seen a bike take over the price of a car yet. You could always buy a cheap car for the price of your average kick ass bike, give me a micro bend over and brace your head against the wall I am shovel ready spread the cheeks.

I'm more interested in the C14 specs, to know if they fixed the buzzy handgrips

But increased stroke is accomplished with a longer crankshaft throw.

so the force of each combustion is directed further away from the centre of the crankshaft. (Think leverage now) This increases the torque at the centre of the crank shaft and therefore the torque output of the motor.

But the speed of the piston increases and the forces on the piston increase as it moves faster. (it has 4mm further to travel each stroke) so for a given rpm (fixed time per stroke) the piston has a longer stroke to travel and therefore has to travel faster to get it done in the same time. This acceleration/deceleration places physical limits on how fast the piston can complete the stroke.

So in simple english, a long stroke motor produces more torque, but has a lower rpm. Compare a HD and a F1 engine. F1 engines are short stoke and rev like crap. (it has to to get any where). A HD engine has a longer stroke, heaps of grunt and a low rpm range.

Of course this does not consider the effect of a lower compression ratio or blower...

* Last updated by: russty on 10/6/2011 @ 9:57 PM *

very interesting!! but my brain is warping now. Time for beddy-bye

* Last updated by: Rook on 10/6/2011 @ 10:03 PM *

I'd lost track..yep in looking back at the dimensions, bore remains 84 mm, so all the cc's are coming from stroke. And yes, you gain bottom end torque at the sacrifice of high rpm capability with a longer stroke, all else being equal. (Stresses on the reciprocating assy and block increase with the gained leverage and rotating mass of a longer stroke.)

So, anyway, no new block nec. without increase in bore. A lower case may need extra relief to accomdate the longer swing of the crank. My LT4 350 had to be relieved for the longer throw of a stroker crank (from 3.48" to 3.875" stroke for 396 cid w/ 0.30 overbore), to enable the big end of the rod to clear the pan rail. Likely that the original lower case still works, because stroker cranks are an aftermarket mod that's already been available for the 14. One of our drag racers would probably be able to give us the specifics for our motors.

I remember seeing some numbers on the gains for a 14 stroker, and it didn't seem a cost effective increase in power when compared to upper end/breathing mods especially for a street bike/not chasing tenths.. But take a look on the 14/BL site; a guy in Ok has recently posted timeslips with a stock motored 14 in the 8.50's. (Valve cover has never been off) How fast do you need to go?

Little doubt that if you were of a mind to do so, the new motor would be easily duped/surpassed with aftermarket parts. You've just got a head start with as much displacement as poss as a beginning point.

Hope so... Priv's "no free lunch" stance is valid... but I don't think they'd pass all the costs on to the consumer... atleast not immediately. The new bike will likely remain virtually unchanged for 6 years... Plenty of time for them to recoup R&D costs, IMO

Yeah, have to admit Priv's got a point - but from everything that's been leaked so far, I don't believe that this is a totally new from the ground up machine - I think it's just a refresh using stuff that's already available, not much retooling necessary - therefore, prob'not much in the way of R&D costs to pass on... But we will see in a few more days...

Yup, looks like this new machine is "tuned for torque" rather than being the fire breather we all had hoped for. I was hoping for an overbore, top end massage for better high rpm breathing, slight rpm increase on the rev limiter, revised fuel injection and maybe a little freer breathing exhaust system along with a ZX-10R stle traction control system and BPF forks.

It wouldn't have taken much to bring the 14 up to an honest 180 rear wheel HP but I have to wonder about longevity if they stuck with the stock crank and bearings.

As it is we'll have to wait for six more years to see what might have been. But maybe KHI will surprise us....ya think? Probably not ,just being pragmatic here.

Which brings up a point, are hyperbikes largely irrelevant now? They do not put out the most power or run the quarter mile the quickest anymore (at least stock) and they weigh 160 lbs more than a liter bike.

Their remaining grace is they deliver high speed in comfort. This confers little in the way of bragging rights these days and the old girls just don't get the respect and street cred that they did even five years ago.

Still a blast to ride though and the weapon of choice on a long trip with some tasty twisties thrown in.

Rod Length/Stroke Ratio is vitally important. Increase the stroke by moving the rod big end out further from the crankshaft centerline and you get more stroke and displacement with bore held constant but the stroke geometry changes....and not in a good way! You're creating higher side loads on the piston because of the more acute angle that it must work through during it's travel. That's parasitic drag that eats horsepower. Lengthen the rod and you relieve the sideload and attendant drag but raise the CG of the engine which works against handling. The ideal situation from the standpoint of minimizing internal parasite losses, is the longest possible rod for a given stroke while the best handling, lowest CG would come from the shortest possible rod for a given stroke length. As everything in engineering, it's a compromise. I'm curious to see how KHI approaches this. If they have increased the stroke but left the rod length unchanged....well?

* Last updated by: Kruz on 10/7/2011 @ 1:03 PM *

Being 6'2"/240, I'm about as scrunched as I want to be, so I'm glad to have the big supersports as an option. (For me, the Zx-14 was really the only option, as the busa has oddly tight ergo's for it's size.) If I were a smaller guy, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a liter bike.

I have a ZZR-1200 as well, and in comparison to the 14, it's a Kenworth. Just pushing both bikes around in the garage, the 14 feels like a bicycle. So, it's all relative, I guess.

Anyway, glad to see Captain Buzzkill's "end of life" prediction was a load. Since it sounds like many parts will interchange, it keeps the bike viable for continued aftermarket support.