That front looks pretty. Clean. And that side looks slim. Lots of aerodynamics might be going on here besidesome good torque. I saw a truck move to the line and I squirted away withouthinking. That was on the little guppy. If I had the 14 in 6th... I'd be inches if not feet farther on the same cable yank.

Hmmmm..weight loss.Let me ask....IF you had a bigazz torquey motor...like the new one coming out...and a bike capable of runnin 200 unlimited stock....would YOU want a 400 lb frame under you?Not me.You can definitely feel the difference just by replacing the stock heavy pipes with nice light ones.I can.And although you may like the 14's handling in tighter stuff as a lighter package....in the BIG FAST DEEP sweeps,those that beg to 'open er up'....that's something different altogether.You don't(I DON'T)want a flighty rear end that has minimal stability to it cause it's so light.Just my opinion.Honestly,you can lean and dig deeper with some weight on that rear.When I've switched pipes,and gone out and carved the same sweeps,with scrubbed in new tires,there IS a difference in leanabilty and 'secure' feeling.Kawi knows what they're doing.The weight is there for a reason.We all know they could come up with a much lighter package...but they don't want people getting killed right and left.Personally,I like the weight factor for my kind of riding.She fits perfect for the roads here.Smooth and deep.

I mentioned(and deleted)my post about taking a passenger with me the other day.The bike handled a bit differently with that extra weight on there.I adjusted the front and rear preload a tad.She actually handled more solidly with that weight,and cornering was a bit more planted(my passenger knew how to 'be a passenger').So I wasn't fighting the extra weight.The ride went great.Very nice.But I'll say I wouldn't want a lightweight big bike like my 14 able to break the tire loose whenever it got 'iffy' with the road surfaces.

I think you just learn to move the weight around as you go...it kinda becomes a non issue after you get it in your head to make certain adjustments while riding.Takes time.EVERY ride for me is a learning experience.Personally,if my bike weighed noticeably less...I'd probably end up in the ditch somewhere!Having the lighter TiForces is about all the weight reduction I need.(or want).It is the street after all.Not supposed to be breaking the sound barrier out there

I had a situation yesterday.I was really rollin.There is an area of deep open sweeps and some mild straights that are right together...in a Canyon.Very nice area for rippin.Awesome place to get busy.Okay...so I was.I came up around this one big curve(not SO huge,but nice for a big sportbike like ours).Okay...Logging truck right there....doing about 5 mph.I'm doing...well...you know...up there.So I immediately get on the brakes....she's comin up fast...faster than I expected.MORE brake....MORE.When I was about 70 feet from that truck rear end,my rear slightly locked.You know...all the weight was on the front.Okay,I got off lightly on the rear to stop the skid.Yep...it was okay...no problem.Got er slowed okay using more front.I'm glad the bike weighs what it does.A lighter bike...given the same situation...I wouldn't be surprised that it could have turned out very different.You can only brake so far....before she locks up and yer in deep trouble then.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 9/17/2011 @ 3:40 PM *

Ok, lets here it 1st guess on rear wheel hp and torque, we Know the size

Straight outta the box... 185hp, 125tq. Brock will have one breaking 200hp on his dyno within a week.

"Top Model" = We can give you speed is no problem. To make it a fairy wrist limp moped was a struggle. It is our goal to make this the top speed and how you get there is our struggle. Butt sitting on one, house of speed ain'there yet. We will come after your model money next year or the next year model is the top model [MUST] keep on top.

Or throw the bums out!

* Last updated by: Hub on 9/17/2011 @ 9:07 PM *

.I'm glad the bike weighs what it does.A lighter bike...given the same situation...I wouldn't be surprised that it could have turned out very different.You can only brake so far....before she locks up and yer in deep trouble then.

I guess it is all what bike you are used to but I am sure that the rules of physics will always give the braking advantage to the smaller bike provided both are equiped with a powerful enough system to potentially lock the wheel(s) at a given speed and same size rider. I notice a lot more slipping at the beginning and end of the season. I just burned a little flat spot on the back tire of the busa yesterday --emergency braking to avoid rear ending a car that I did not expect to stop for the yellow light. We had that back wheel locked and doing a little chirpy slither for a few yards. The 14 would have made a clean stop without much drama. It's not just the stronger brake but the fact my modded 14 is way lighter than my busa. of course, I am much more used to riding the 14 too. I still think lighter is going to be better for braking if the rider knows the bike well enough to avoid locking wheels AMAP.

* Last updated by: Rook on 9/17/2011 @ 9:33 PM *

I dunno Rook...you know the frontend takes the weight transfer when slowing or stopping....and actually grabs harder because of it.Same as loading the frontend cornering,getting the weight onto the front to avoid plowing.You stiffen that front fork,you get better traction at the rear(assuming the rear suspension is correctly adjusted for the style and reality of the bike's characteristics).Less weight seems to me less grip.More load,better grabbing.You transfer your weight to the front,that rear does what?...it stops grabbing pretty much.Skids easily.Skips around.IDK....You do have the momentum factor going against you with the heavier bike,BUT,I believe suspension tuning and rider ability overcomes the momentum deal nicely if a guy knows what the limits are of his own machine.You are right about the temp thing.For sure.

You notice those racers...when they're downshifting and rear braking for the corners...they're sittin upright with their weight midpoint or back a tad.Loadin up the rear tire/suspension.Applyin front brake to keep the chassis from doin the humpty hump.It looks like that to me anyway.I could be VERY wrong.Hell,you'd know more about that than I would fer sure.You've been there.But a sudden 'emergency braking' situation...your weight's gonna roll on the front wheel really fast..that rear is gonna lose traction no matter what to a pretty good degree.Regardless of the bike's weight.

I realize the 14 with it's weight,and great brakes....will stop very fast under certain conditions.But she doesn't do so well when all that weight is being made to STOP like...NOW...at speed.I've skidded more than once misjudging stopping distance at speed.She'll slow really quick,and I think the key for a faster stop(skidless stop) is application of the brakes more and more as she slows.But trying to keep the chassis level...that's the trick for fast emergency stopping IMO with my 14.Weight towards the rear,powering more brake front and back as she slows.There are situations(with me anyway) where NO amount of braking would improve the situation,had things been different.Some situations are only gonna result in a crash...no matter what you do.

I think what you're saying is...the lighter bike will stop quicker.I agree.It should.That's why IMO tryin to ride a 14 like a 600 is foolish and dangerous.She just won't stop like a 600.No way.Great brakes or not.But for her weight,which I think Kawi designed to be a certain way for a reason...she outperforms MOST bikes with stock setups,all things being equal.I know there was a noticeable difference in braking and cornering with that passenger on there.She actually felt more controlled and planted braking and cornering.

I should say...I wasn't going anywhere near what I would be riding(or have ridden)with that passenger on there.No way.But I could feel a definite stability goin on with that extra weight.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 9/18/2011 @ 2:08 AM *

Kevin Schwantz said he never used the back brake. The GP boys use their foot [right or left] entering corners. No one uses their rearsince... Why do you think I took mine off the first bike. Go press on my rear pedal now. It will hit bottom almost. I stabbed it twice so far getting off that little bike; needing the 14's front end setup. Slap myself I get that seen your moment tapping that pedal.

I'm wondering abouthatorquer. It has more than a bore job and clay molds around it. If Suzuki out [pee forums] with the K's 'Top Model' kicking some 186 times...

YOu beat her not, K! Blingmwill eat you all!

Only you Hub would remove your rear brake ya doosh!

Donny...

Saved 4lbs.
Save your breath telling me how to ride a bike.
Say, was the trend way back then?
If I threw more air cleaner at my cylinders and you read the effect @ 220 Piss'inn year cereal, are you trying to get the place all...

It’s not so appealing to me I can spend 4 grand put a turbo on what I already own and get 300hp on pump gas that’s more my style but I think my next bike will be an oversized supper-moto aprilia dorsoduro 1200 or a ktm 990 of some sort I would just rather have a jumpy bike than spend the money on something I already have but with ? 40hp more to the rear if it comes out supper charged and you can change the ecu I might try to save my lunch money!

I know it's a different topic...ya....but from what I've read (recently)...the top riders DO use their rear brake to 'trailbrake'.It is a valuable skill to know.I think all of us realize that using the rear takes some finesse,and that using ONLY the rear to stop in EVERY situation would be foolish and not effective.The instinct to stop immediately(stab on the rear and lock it)is a learned action.Practicing trailbraking will overcome that impulse to lock the pedal.You will find the limit of rear pedal pressure by practicing in a safe place.Leaned over in a fast curve probably would not be the best place to start your practicing.But in truth,I trailbrake quite frequently...which doesn't make me anyone special.But it's good to know 'how much' you can apply rear brake without upsetting the applecart!Just sayin.You can learn to apply both brakes,or only one to settle the chassis and make your cornering entries/apexes/exits more enjoyable.Interacting with your throttle inputs/brake applications is a good way to prepare for that 'what if' situation we all will have eventually.

My opinion regarding MY riding is...if I'm not comfortable with any part of my bike's performance ability...I need to 'get comfortable' with it.Eventually,I'm going to need to use as much ability my bike has to possibly save my arse or someone elses.It's still only TWO WHEELS.Lots can go really wrong really fast.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 9/20/2011 @ 3:18 PM *

Re: the wild rumors

Lets apply Occam's Razor.

What is more likely? KHI spends the 30%+ of their engineering and tooling budget for 2012 on a bike to replace the ZX14 (which is already just about as quick and certainly as fast as US and European laws will allow), thus leaving only 70% for other stuff.

Or spends it all on a) the ZX10R 2012 racing development program (which may determine if KHI ever races again in our lifetimes) and b) a big revamp of the C14, which to keep pace with BMW et. al., and needs to be 1500cc, and the wildly successful Z1000/600/250 ?

I.E., spend a lot of your limited engineering money on a motorcycle which will NEVER pay for itself and will cost over 15,000 USD base to the detriment of your already successful cash cows which are 80% of motorcyle revenue?

If it was your 600,000,000 USD to spend, and your career depended on the 2012 ZX10R racing results and the ability of the C14 to keep and gain market share from BMW and Harley Davidson (yes, HD), as well as growing the 80% of your revenue base by a sizeable percentage, what would you do?

If it was me, I'd do the ZX11 all over, based on the ZX10 this time, with sport touring ergonomics, which would be an extremely QUICK bike but still the same general top speed of the ZX14. In other words, make it a valid extension of the wildly successful 2011 Z1000 line, a top model as it is. Which would leverage off dollars you already want to spend on the 2012 ZX10R and save you tons of money, and keep the price down too.

Besides, until 10/10 we won't know if all the rumor, fake photos, and total lack of factual proof is bullshit, or truth. And then a bit later we will learn, if its true, how much its going to cost to play.

If I was KHI I would NOT want to have to sell a porker wanna-be sportbike for the same cost as a big BMW in order to pay for the expensive parts it takes to do what the speculators hope they will do.

If I wanna go lighter (lighter is good) I'd punch the ZX10R out another couple hundred cc and put comfortable bars and seat and pegs on her, and call her a Z1100 so she can be in the Z1000/600 line, and I'd sell a million of them and get all my engineering money back and then some.

But it will be what it will be, in a very short time we will know.

6 years of R&D.And with this new bird coming out....there'll be another 6 or so years of R&D...until...they REALLY decide to up the ante...as they've done here.They started their 'badazz' line with the 12R.Hasn't been that many years to get to the 14.Kawi's gonna keep 'improving' their biggest baddest bike until they bleed Suzuki right outta the picture.The fight over 'baddest' streetbike is with Suzuki.Kawi's got gazillions to refine and 'recreate' anything they want.Suzuki?I see Suzuki falling by the wayside.Yup...I do.They're gonna HAVE to spend spend spend to keep up.I don't think they're gonna stay in the fray for a whole lot longer.They're makin good steady income from their smaller sportbikes.Kawi IS the King.This new 14 is just a 'pause' for the really BIG BIRD that'll be out in a few more years.Guys WANT a bike like the 14....my age.Lots of em out there.Gonna be even more as time goes by.Kawi engineers are LISTENING to what guys want.The Busa is toast baby.

IMO...the engineers at Kawasaki are way more enlightened as to creating a performance package than any of the other makers out there.As far as I know,they're the only ones who actually build performance aircraft and such.When Suzuki says"wind tunnel designed" bodywork....okay.When Kawasaki says "wind tunnel designed" bodywork and aerodynamics..they KNOW what they're looking for.The new 14 is only gonna be better in every aspect over the now 14.It's gonna be a happy day for Kawasaki when they finally unveil their new bird.It's only gonna get better.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 9/20/2011 @ 4:45 PM *

* Last updated by: madskillz on 9/20/2011 @ 8:21 PM *

Add any more formula to the two numbers, you open the OcocanRazor it off. "Top Model" = 2+2. Two simple.

You don't make sense Hub. Its ok. :)

Your buddy's theory says, "Add 2 and 2 together makes 4. Apply any other number to the answer... Well, I could cut that number off as in, the math does not compute now if 4 is that simple of the two variables. One is a truth, the other a fallacy you bring in the 3rd number = Razor's theory or I've got it wrong in theory is all that Occam is saying.

If the 11 is slow, the 12 was faster, but now the 14 dwarfs it... Top model is going to be the top model and the 14 is like the 11 we no look back but bring up a new project engineer and think 14 and now make one 'Top Model" or you do not see top model is not here yet is burn this puppy out top model.

Bring back the 11.... HA!

privateer wrote:

If it was me, I'd do the ZX11 all over, based on the ZX10 this time, with sport touring ergonomics, which would be an extremely QUICK bike but still the same general top speed of the ZX14. In other words, make it a valid extension of the wildly successful 2011 Z1000 line, a top model as it is. Which would leverage off dollars you already want to spend on the 2012 ZX10R and save you tons of money, and keep the price down too.

Hey privateer,

KHI already beat you to this idea for 2011. Enter the new and award winning Ninja 1000 (called z1000sx in Europe). It's based off the z1000 frame and engine. Slight gear change, bigger tank, full faring, sport touring seating, even comes with optional hard cases. ZX11 C/D = 1052cc vs. z1000/Ninja 1000/z1000sx = 1043cc. Weighs much less and as 2011 z1000 owner, I can tell you it's a blast to ride.

* Last updated by: motoCycho on 9/20/2011 @ 11:52 PM *

Just an aside here...does anyone really believe Kawasaki would allow these 'teaser commercials' to be published all over the net?I DON'T THINK SO...unless it were true.And thinking that Kawasaki couldn't 'do anything about it"...well,yeah,they could.And would.

blue,

Go to Kawi's website... Every farm scene is all hyping your ass up with Kelly, the news report her from channel get reel!

Let us add two and two make the 'cam razor.' Add Kawi pulling off those adds. Add, you find that on Kawi's website = Truth. Any other shit added on to the end begins to smell like K Lie. Are were all cleaned up razor wise, guy?

She WOT you did, Privvy!

Just an aside here...does anyone really believe Kawasaki would allow these 'teaser commercials' to be published all over the net?

nope. no telling how much of a change will have taken place.....and as I said back on p 1,

This better be good

So let me get this straight.

A passing ZX14 is gonna look like a green flash of light now instead of red or blue? Sounds incredible!