I just about drive myself crazy each time I tighten my chain. I get the marks lined up perfectly on both sides of the swingarm and then it is ruined by tightening the axle nut. It seems like the tightening of the axle nut levers the axle a bit and throws the mark on the sprocket side off by about 1 mm. I've tried compensating by tightening one side more than the other. I've also tried measuring the adjuster screws' length and making that equal on both sides. There's got to be a better way than fiddling around and doing this ten times to get the marks to look the same on both sides.

Rook

---

Rook-How's it going? What I do-set the wheel(I use a rear stand)where you want it to be(chainwise,equal at marks on both sides).Don't completely loosen the hub nut.Just enough to move it WITH THE ADJUSTER BOLTS.Adjust the bolt to the mark you need-hold the bolt,and tighten the LOCK NUT SECURELY.Same as the other side.Then tighten the hub nut.It can't possibly move with the adjusting bolt secured.Gotta make sure the axle is firmly against that adjusting bolt.Probably what's happening is you're adjusting the bolt there,but when you go to tighten the lock nut,the bolt is also turning,which will cause the adjustment to change.(you ARE tightening the locknut on the adjuster bolt,yes?)(turning it CLOCKWISE till it is tight?).That's most likely what's going on...............OR......You MAY be looking at your hashmarks/axle mark AT A DIFFERENT ANGLE THINKING IT'S EVEN ON BOTH SIDES?(I've done that).You gotta look straight in at it,not forward or back of the mark lineup.(even looking "off a little" will cause you to NOT have it lined up)Hope that helps

* Last updated by: blue07 on 5/3/2009 @ 12:37 AM *

Rook-How's it going?

Good! I've been facebooking a lot the last couple weeks which has kept me away from the 14ninjaforums. I really need to till the soil in that wasteland my marriage turned my social life into. Not sure there's anything developing but it's fun checking around.

Probably what's happening is you're adjusting the right bolt there,but when you go to tighten the lock nut,the bolt is also turning,which will cause the adjustment to change.

No, I'm using two wrenches - one to hold the adjuster, the other to tighten the locknut. I wondered if having the bike on the side stand didn't have something to do with the shift of alignment. I'll try to tighten the axle nut good and snug up on the rear stand. I imagine forward torqueing should be relatively safe with the rear stand I use. Thanks.

Rook

* Last updated by: Rook on 5/3/2009 @ 12:43 AM *

---

I don't think adjusting it on the sidestand would hurt anything-EXCEPT.....Making sure the axle's butted up against the adjuster nut might be iffy.I put mine like I said on the rear stand,then after I've loosened the adjuster/lock nut,I give the tire a good bop with my palm to seat it in there before tightening.(you can chock the front wheel with something under there).However-without changing gearing or NEW chain,the adjustments should only be ONE WAY-that's CLOCKWISE on ALL bolts.So loosening the locknut shouldn't be an issue(only retightening it),only the hub nut,that has to be loosened of course(enough to move the wheel) and adjusting the adjuster bolt.You shouldn't ever have to go the other way with your adjustment(looser).

* Last updated by: blue07 on 5/3/2009 @ 1:01 AM *

only the hub nut,that has to be loosened of course(enough to move the wheel)

That was another thing I was thinking could be the problem. I have been loosening the axle nut enough to let it spin freely. That is probabley allowing the axle to "relax" way too much in the swingarm slot. After breaking the axle nut free, about how many turns do you loosen it?

Rook

---

Do you check the wheel alignment (with string) or rely on the swingarm marks?

---

Thanks Hub. Those are really good pointers. I got it just about perfect so I'm not going to f withit any more until next time.

Rook

---

I use one of them Motion Pro jobbies that clamp on the rear gear. It has a 7 in pointer rod that lets you know if the chain is strait so I never worry about the alignment marks. As it turns out they are close enuf to use and not worry about.

---

Do you check the wheel alignment (with string) or rely on the swingarm marks?

Would somone mind explaining the string method of checking wheel alignment?

---

I have never seen anybody string a bike for a chain adjustment. It has always been because the bike handled like crap and the string was enuf to confirm bent forks or steering head.

---

^^Thanks, Hub. Chain adjustment is about the most routine and most important thing we do in the maintenance area but still, I imagine there are a lot of questions about this procedure. We have some really valuable info on this topic. This has cleared up a lot of my chain maintenance quandries. I bemieve your info and that of the others posting here wil help demystify the whole deal for everyone who reads this.

I would agree that the string method would seem to introduce more error than it eliminates. String stretches for one thing. Perhaps a piece of cable would be more accurate. Who knows when the front wheel is dead straight forward? As imperfect as my chain adjustments may have been in the past, I see no unusual ware on my back sprocket. Will be interesting to look at the front sprocket some day soon. If it's worn, I'd love to try a new gearing set up anyway. Sprockets are pretty cheap.

Rook

* Last updated by: Rook on 5/6/2009 @ 8:18 AM *

---

I wrap teh string around the rear wheel and lie in front of the front wheel. This way I can keep the front wheel straight, put the bike in gear so the rear wheel does not rotate.

So, the rear tyre is wider than the front. While laying in front of the bike and holding each end of the string wide of the bike so that the string only touches the rear of the rear wheel. Now, while watching the rear wheel, move each end of the string closer to the front wheel. Stop when the string touches the front edge of the rear tyre. At this point, the string is aligned with the direction of the rear wheel and projects a line forward. There are no kinks/bends in the string, because it is just barely touching the front edge of the rear tyre.

It is now important to keep the front wheel straight. Maybe a scantily clad member of the opposite gender could be useful here. :) If the rear wheel is properly aligned, the gap between the string and the side of the front tyre will be the same on both sides. The length of the string will exaggerate any misalignment of the rear wheel.

Misalignment affects the handling of the bike, it feels like having low tyre pressures. the bike 'bump-steers', meaning small bumps mid corner tend to momentarily alter the angle of lean; hit a bump and the bike wants to stand up for a split second. I get the same feeling with the 190/50 rear tyre. change to a 190/55 or a 180/55 and the bump-steer goes away.

I recommend this when adjusting the chain as this is the only time the alignment can change. Although once done one, adjusting the chain from that point on should involve the same number of turns on each side of the adjusting bolts (left+right) thereby applying the same adjustment to each end of the axle and maintaining the wheel alignment. This means the string method only needs to be done occasionally, rather than every time the chain is adjusted.

---

Sorry for the delay in responding, work and family pressures are high at the moment.

I don't believe string lining the rear wheel is a chain issue, the possible misalignment is too small to have an impact on the chain. I believe it is only a handling issue.

Nice pickup Hub, and in your opening question too! "Impressive, Obi-wan!" I must confess that I've had the same thoughts about bump-steer, being up on one side and down on the other, but I've not been able to detect that difference.

I've discovered over time that there are three things that upset the handling resulting in bump steer.
[list=1]
low tyre pressures
wrong tyre profile
misaligned wheels
[/list]

The last can be caused by either the rear wheel being misaligned as a result of chain adjustment, or the front wheel is misaligned due to bent or poorly installed forks. Either way the result is the same, when pointing in the same direction, the two wheels are not on the same front-to-rear axis. When misaligned, the direction of the rear is fixed, so the direction of the front is adjusted (by turning the bars) and the bike goes where the rider wants. If the rear is of-axis then it is sending the bike slightly to the right or left and the front is adjusted accordingly. These are minor measures and mostly imperceptible in a straight line, but I notice them when leaning and they are exaggerated by uneven surfaces mid turn.

Others have mentioned that the ZX handles like a barge when pressures get below 40psi. I agree. The same feeling is induced by a rear profile that is too wide or too flat; it is also induced my misalignment.

I can't describe in words what I mind's eye sees; there needs to be a balance between the vertical forces at play. Weight is pushing down through the centre of of the bike at the same angle as the bike. The ground pushes back through the centre of the contact patch of the two tyres. If the rear contact patch is not aligned with the front then both front and rear will be off centre, where centre is the line described by the centre of gravity and the direction of the bike.

I believe that the imbalance in vertical forces resulting from the misalignment is the reason for the barge like feeling.

When the rear contact patch is too wide (low pressure or wrong profile) the vertical forces on the front are correct and the bike wants to turn-in in response to the riders input, the rear forces are not aligned and the rear resists the lean. The front wants to lean and therefore turn while the rear wants the bike to stand up resulting in that familiar barge feeling.

I find that when I get those 3 elements right, the handling transforms; the wheels are aligned with the vector of the bike (CoG+direction), the vertical forces are balanced and the bike feels like it 'falls' into the corner and needs no further rider input to stay at the chosen lean angle and further, requires the rider to stand it back up again. That's when I think the bike feels balanced.

Hub, I hope I addressed your critique. I enjoy your challenges, keeps me on my toes knowing you are going to review my comments with a ruler and whack me over the knuckles when I dribble some BS. But I don't think I understood you comments about 'lift angle'

Your move...

---

I wrap teh string around the rear wheel and lie in front of the front wheel. This way I can keep the front wheel straight, put the bike in gear so the rear wheel does not rotate.

So, the rear tyre is wider than the front. While laying in front of the bike and holding each end of the string wide of the bike so that the string only touches the rear of the rear wheel. Now, while watching the rear wheel, move each end of the string closer to the front wheel. Stop when the string touches the front edge of the rear tyre. At this point, the string is aligned with the direction of the rear wheel and projects a line forward. There are no kinks/bends in the string, because it is just barely touching the front edge of the rear tyre.

It is now important to keep the front wheel straight. Maybe a scantily clad member of the opposite gender could be useful here. :) If the rear wheel is properly aligned, the gap between the string and the side of the front tyre will be the same on both sides. The length of the string will exaggerate any misalignment of the rear wheel.

Misalignment affects the handling of the bike, it feels like having low tyre pressures. the bike 'bump-steers', meaning small bumps mid corner tend to momentarily alter the angle of lean; hit a bump and the bike wants to stand up for a split second. I get the same feeling with the 190/50 rear tyre. change to a 190/55 or a 180/55 and the bump-steer goes away.

I recommend this when adjusting the chain as this is the only time the alignment can change. Although once done one, adjusting the chain from that point on should involve the same number of turns on each side of the adjusting bolts (left+right) thereby applying the same adjustment to each end of the axle and maintaining the wheel alignment. This means the string method only needs to be done occasionally, rather than every time the chain is adjusted.

+1 on this, and everything else russty said above..

By the way, How are you doing russty?? How's the riding down under? everything still upside down

These cheap lasers with the little tri-pods, you know like wally world sales. Work real good for a modern string, set a laser on each side of the rear wheel(it helps to have the bike up on a rear paddock stand) shine down beside the front and rear of the rear tire, and the front-wheel should be directly between these two-lines..

get the lasers that make the lines not the little dot..the ones like you use in carpentry.

PS>> it is very important to have the rear wheel strait and true, an untrue rear wheel will effect handling, especially at high speeds and when leaned over,<<<<

---

Hi Hub!

My take on this is that the bike follows the path of least resistance, so if the rear is a little off axis, i see 2 possibilities.
1. the bike 'drags' the rear wheel so that it scrubs a bit. We are only talking about less than one degree out of alignment.
2. the front wheel turns a little so that the front and rear are pointing in exactly the same direction. In this case both wheels are on different but parallel axes and yes the bike is 'crabbing' slightly, but only slightly. This is not noticeable in a straight line as the two axes might only be offset by 1/4"

My money is on #2 as I think this is the path of least resistance. no tyre dragging, only a slight change in direction through the handle bars.

This assumption (#2) explains the odd handling sensation with bumps mid corner or riding along the seam of the bitumen sealer, or grooves from resurfacing etc when the bike wants to go its own way.

---

Over the years and many motorcycles I have found that many of the alignment marks on swingarms are WAY off. What has always worked for me is the straight edge or string method to find perfect alignment with the chain loose, then equal tuns on each side from then on - ignore the marks, just keep the turns dead even on each side, making sure that the axle stays fully against the adjusters. On some bikes I have owned this meathod has completly changed the handeling for the better, but to Kawasaki's credit, my ZX-14 was pretty close - not perfect, but a lot closer than some brands.

I'm 17 years late and can't help, but
I can ask questions...

My bike is veering to the right, I checked the
front end and all seems right.
Then I asked AI after finding no answers which
way to push the right side, it said push it back,
I did that, but only by about a mm, and the
chain got tighter, which isn't good and I
didn't notice any improvement. (the hashmarks don't
seem to be accurate either)
Anyway I adjusted the axle back to how it was, and still
the chain it too tight.
NEXT; I took a straight edge and it looks like
the back of my rear tire is kicked quite a bit
to the right and not at all aligned with the chain.
So, bearing in mind that I need keep working on
this today, I'm going to see if aligning the rear
wheel based more or less on being straight with chain
I'll try to do that and take the bike or a run.
I read that the wheel should be aligned or perfectly
parallel with the chain,.... so , hold my beer....

The "same amount of turn on each adjuster bolt" seems to work. After all both bolts have the same number of threads per centimeter. One 360° turn on the left adjuster bolt will change the the wheelbase exactly the same amount as one 360° turn on the right adjuster bolt. The key is to have both adjuster bolts the same number of turns out from the start. Tighten left locknut up under the head of left adjuster bolt, tighten left adjuster bolt all the way in. There's your zero mark. Do the same with your right adjuster bolt, there's your righthand zero mark. Mark the outer flat of the LH adjuster bolt with a Sharpie. Mark the INNER flat of the RH adjuster bolt with a Sharpie. Don't mark the the outer flat on both sides or you're already 180 different---both bolts turn counter-clockwise to thread them outward). ...outer flat one side, inner flat the other. This way, the bolts are like two clock faces with the hour hands on both synchronized. Look at the rear axle from behind, the marked LH adjuster bolt flat is synchronized to the marked RH adjuster bolt flat like clocks. LH: thread adjuster bolt out five 360° turns. RH: thread adjuster bolt out five 360° turns. Both have reduced the wheelbase exactly the same distance. LH: thread bolt out another five 360° turns. RH: five more 360° turns. The adjusters are getting close to bumping up to the axle blocks now and both the LH and the RH are exactly the same distance from the zero marks on both sides. LH: two more 360° turns and the bolt head is touching the LH axle block. RH: two more turns, not quite touching the axle block? Don't thread it out more, leave it alone. Job #1 is to keep the adjuster bolts the same length on both sides. Go back to LH side, turn LH adjuster bolt one 360° turn. Go to RH side, OH now the tension on the left has pulled the right adjuster block up to the RH adjuster bolt! You still have to give the RH adjuster bolt the same number f turns as you just gave the LH adjuster bolt. Turn the RH adjuster bolt one 360° turn. Look, the chain is actually starting to tighten, both adjuster bolts pushing the adjuster blocks back! Now you go to smaller increments. LH: turn 2 flats, that's 120°. Now you go to the RH side and turn two flats. Adjuster bolts are still exactly the same length on both sides. Is the chain too tight now? ...if so, you need to thread the LH one flat in and do the same on the RH side.

I did this with my Gen1 and as far as I can tell, it was perfect. No weird sprocket wear, swing arm adjuster marks were looked the same on both sides.

From this initial dial in on the alignment and chain tension, you adjust no more than one flat on both sides. I have had a pretty loose chain a few times drooping down but never have I had to tighten it a lot more than one flat on both sides. One flat is a lot. Two flats is like "you let that go way to long and you're hearing the chain lash against the inside of the swing arm. Three flats, holy shit that's startig to risk a chain derailment I think.

A properly adjusted chain does droop with no load on the suspension. On my Gen1, if the top run was laying on the plastic chain guide on the swing arm, that was ok. Immediately after an adjustment, I think it was lightly touching or just barely off of the chain guide with no load on the suspension other than the bike's weight. It might look loose but it's right where it should be. Perhaps a touch tighter for a lighter rider and perhaps a bit looser for a heavier rider. A little loose is fine. A little too tight can only stretch the chain and stress the countershaft bearings. A lot tight, same problem but that chain will hopefully stretch in a very short time instead of break.

There's my schpeel on rear wheel alignment and chain tightening. I have a chain adjustment tutorial in the How-Tos section too. I'll be looking at it. Been a long time since I tightened a chain and my brand new 2024 needs a chain adjustment after 300 miles. ...new chains, they require adjustment more frequently than after they wear in a bit.

---

Also Strat, you should insert your rear axle so the nut is on the RH side. Kaw puts it on the left from the factory. You pull the axle and flip it so the axle nut is on the right, now torquing the axle nut pulls the axle against the axle block. With the axle nut on the LH side, torquing pulls the axle away from the adjuster block. I believe this was the answer to this thread but didn't know it at the time. Suzuki puts the axle nut on the right. That's how it should be. That's actually a lot safer for breaking the rear axle nut with the bike on its side stand too....you pull backward and the side stand can't fold up. ...tightening, there you have your side stand folding risk but I'll take that over breaking the axle nut free. Torquing always requires less force than breaking.

---

Mark the outer flat of the LH adjuster bolt with a Sharpie... turn 2 flats, that's 120°

I hadn't thought about either item, good tips, though I do tend to
put white or blue nail polish on the oil drain plug, filter, and other items.

I get three fingers under the top of swing arm 'chain-clearance'
right behind the plastic glide/slide, pretty tight, but there.
That's before the knuckles and about 2 1/4''.
The chain isn't quite resting on the top guide, it's about
1 or 2 mm off of it about in the middle, if I lift the chain
lightly and drop it, it hits the guide.
One thing we may have talked about before is that since I've lowered
the bike 1.25 '', at rest is my chain slightly tighter than
it would be if not lowered 1.25''?
The hash marks are said to be unreliable, do you find that to be
the case, and if so, we can still trust that the adjuster
bolt receivers machining is more accurate?
---

Torquing always requires less force than breaking.

lol, I was thinking this over quite a bit then realized OH WAIT....
my axle nut IS ON THE RIGHT SIDE. :SMI
Note; I made a U shaped chock out of 2x4's that I wedge under
whatever wheel I'm not working on, I think that's helped a bit.
Every time I deal with my bike, moving it around, parking, etc,
I'm always considering; final set-down needs to be rearward,
never forward. Don't ask how I know, right?

The chain isn't quite resting on the top guide, it's about
1 or 2 mm off of it about in the middle, if I lift the chain
lightly and drop it, it hits the guide.

That sounds about right. You weigh less than me but 180, 250, I think we're in the same ballpark. The main thing is not to make the mistake of making this look like a bicycle chain that's perfectly taught. At first glance, that makes sense but in practice, major mistake for a person of any size considering our motorcycle driveline and rear suspension interact directly with one another.

One thing we may have talked about before is that since I've lowered
the bike 1.25 '', at rest is my chain slightly tighter than
it would be if not lowered 1.25''?

Front lowering, I don't think it matters a huge amount to the rear suspension. Rear lowering, yes, it would make a lot of difference. You lower the rear, the chain has to get tighter. The appropriate thing to do would be to loosen the chain slack after lowering but if you didn't, the chain will stretch to the proper adjustment. I wouldn't worry about it, it sounds like you're paying close attention to your chain slack.

The hash marks are said to be unreliable, do you find that to be
the case, and if so, we can still trust that the adjuster
bolt receivers machining is more accurate?

All I have to go by is the adjustment notches on my Gen1 but from that, I'd say the chain adjuster marks are very accurate. The problem is that the marks on the swing arm aren't in small enough increments. You adjust the chain tension and the axle hardy moved. ...that's why I say, one flat is a normal adjustment. Two flats on the adjuster bolts is like "you waited too long to adjust that chain." What I found with my Gen1 was after tightening both adjuster bolts to the zero mark (threaded all the way in) then counting the number of turns it took equally on both sides to achieve proper chain tension, the axle adjusters looked the same in relation to the swing arm marks. SO...know how the turns on each adjuster bolt is is the same from zero. When you adjust, adjust the same number of turns on each side. It's not going to a full turn, one flat at most if you're keeping on top of it. One flat to the swing arm marks is nothing, the swig arm marks are an eighth inch apart. You will never adjust your chain one eighth inch, that's a huge amount of tightening. It's more like a thirty-second inch at a time and by the time the swing arm marks are about to line up with the axle block mark, you're pretty close to time to replace that chain. They should make the swing arm marks in much smaller increments but what they have, I think it's very accurate. ...easy way to test, zero your adjuster bolts on both sides. turn both the same number of turns until one meets a swig arm mark. I'll bet you the other side is also on the same mark.

---

That sounds about right. You weigh less than me but 180, 250, I think we're in the same ballpark. The main thing is not to make the mistake of making this look like a bicycle chain that's perfectly taught. At first glance, that makes sense but in practice, major mistake for a person of any size considering our motorcycle driveline and rear suspension interact directly with one another.

I'm actually quite a bit under 130 now, I've got both preloads to
zero, and when I hit a nasty bump or series of bumps, I've still
got about 1 1/4'' travel in the front forks. I lowered the front about
3/4'' and the rear 1.25'' I had lowered the front right away,
then later started thinking that the bike might be better off
if I lowered the front 'some' to try and somewhat match
the lowering of the back.
I get a pretty plush ride either way.
Clearance at the lowest point where the weld is
on the 'collector' is about 3 3/4'' off the ground, I do have to
take it very easy over speed bumps.

Two flats on the adjuster bolts is like "you waited too long to adjust that chain." What I found with my Gen1 was after tightening both adjuster bolts to the zero mark (threaded all the way in) then counting the number of turns it took equally on both sides to achieve proper chain tension, the axle adjusters looked the same in relation to the swing arm marks. SO...know how the turns on each adjuster bolt is is the same from zero. When you adjust, adjust the same number of turns on each side. It's not going to a full turn, one flat at most if you're keeping on top of it.

I'll take a look at the chain again tomorrow.
What about measuring the length of the adjuster bolts
from receiver end to end of bolt head with calipers,
can that be accurate also?
----
Are you able to get your bikes out and ride yet this season?

The casting of the swing arm has to be perfect or so close to a 1/16th of a mm. I've adjusted the rear axle on a racing swing arm where a slight turn of an adjuster bolt binds the static axle.

Went to COTA for the GP race last month, got into a pit and watched the tech spin the rear axel(alone) and turned the screw until it felt the lightest drag of the spin of the axle. No way will the 14 do this, but the point is, the guy in the next pit would throw a back tire on, took his T-handle handle snd thru it between the chain and top tooth of the sprocket and the other tech would hold the tire taught.

Kind of see by sending the rear wheel backwards, it shoves the adjusters forward? Try that trick next time you tighten the axle nut.

---

What about measuring the length of the adjuster bolts
from receiver end to end of bolt head with calipers,
can that be accurate also?

That should work the same as threading the bolts out the same number of turns from zero. I've done it but relied on the bolt turn method more. ...I'd do both to check one against the other. It's always possible that one bolt head might be slightly thicker than the other. ...possible but not probable, assuming it's a bolt from the same manufacturer on both sides.

---

That should work the same as threading the bolts out the same number of turns from zero. I've done it but relied on the bolt turn method more. ...I'd do both to check one against the other. It's always possible that one bolt head might be slightly thicker than the other. ...possible but not probable, assuming it's a bolt from the same manufacturer on both sides.

Yeah, I could see how the bolt heads might not
be identical, rare as you say and/or coming from
different manufacturers, I suppose measuring
to the flat edge of the 'carriers' might be
more exacting in such a case.
---
The left side is now about 2mm forward of the right side,
adjusted two days ago, noticed no improvement.
I'll set it back where it was, especially since I
can see now that after the adjustment, while the
chain seems straighter to the wheel or visa versa,
the chain is favoring to the right, there is space
showing on the left side of the sprocket between
it and chain links.
So correction coming tomorrow.
I don't like that it pulls to the right, but don't
know what else to look at.
It's not an aggressive pull , but it definitely veers
off that way and could be why my front tires
seem to wear a lot more on once side, I think the
left side.