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Thread: Tire wear& suspension help

Created on: 12/07/14 01:15 AM

Replies: 12

tib



Joined: 05/18/14

Posts: 52

Tire wear& suspension help
12/07/14 1:15 AM

Help, advice, answers from people smarter, wiser than me.
Bike is 09, low miles, in damn good shape, or so I thought. Bike is stock. Only mod is slip-ons
Symptoms I noted:
1. When riding over small bumps, potholes, etc., too much of jolt is being felt on arms thru handlebars and not being absorbed by forks.
2. When front brakes hit hard, forks feel harsh, front end dives.
3. At higher speeds, front end feels like it's ready/wanting to wobble, especially if I might take one or both hands off bars.
4. Uneven patches of excessive front tire wear only on left side tire.

Local dealer suggests:
1. Adjust front fork settings
2. Change fork oil (different weight)
3. I must be making a lot more left turns than right causing irregular left side tire wear.

Huh? Seems to me that regular riding does not produce an abnormal percentage of turns in one direction over the other, and if tire was not properly inflated, wear would be even on both sides.

I consider my riding style/speed as moderate, mostly for pleasure. I ride at speeds that are as fast as I feel comfortable going. Since I generally ride at higher speeds that are faster than the general motorcycling public, I like to believe that I am a good rider, able to ride at fast speeds. This may even be true compared to average Joe on average bike. But I also realize that when compared to a truly skilled rider, I am neither good nor fast.
I have too much age and weight (56yrs & 300lbs) and not enough talent (or balls) to ride my 09 anywhere near it's limits of capabilities of speed and handling.
This leads to my next question. Are these minor front fork suspension adjustments, (a few clicks on the rebound/compression screws) intended mostly to be geared for skilled riders at fast speeds (or race track)?
I have made numerous adjustments both in and out a few clicks at a time. I have not realized any noticeable difference in my feel of the way the bike handles. Should I be?
Should I even bother messin' with these adjustments to try and improve my ride, or it that pretty much just for the fast guys and aggressive riding speeds?
I'm curious what others may notice after making these adjustments. Is there noticeable change? How many clicks?
I have not changed the fork oil. Might it help? Any other suggestions to improve front fork feel?


Whatcha all think?

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untamed


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Location: RSA

Joined: 08/18/13

Posts: 347

RE: Tire wear& suspension help
12/07/14 3:32 AM

Have you checked tyre pressure?
This affects handling and tyre wear.

I have read that wear of the tyre could also be affected by road camber.



Life begins at 40.......The fun starts at 240.
Now riding 2014 ohlins ZZR 1400, Z 750, GPZ1100ZX, ZZR1100, Hayabusa, GSXR1000, 2009 ZX14 special edition.

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jwh20


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Location: Indiana

Joined: 10/31/13

Posts: 203

RE: Tire wear& suspension help
12/07/14 5:29 AM

Are you in the US or another part of the world where we drive on the RIGHT side? If so, your front tire will always wear faster on the left than on the right. It may seem counter-intuitive but you turn left for a much greater distance than you turn right. So this is entirely normal.

But once that happens handling suffers. By the time you can see the difference on the tire, it's time to start shopping for a new front. Many tires develop a "scalloped" pattern due to the way they are designed which is often interpreted as abnormal wear.

Keeping the tires properly inflated will help minimize this.

As far as your "soft" suspension, it could be that the current settings are too light for you. The ZX-14 suspension is very adjustable so after you get your tire replaced, try some different settings.



2008 Kawasaki ZX-14 Special Edition
2012 Kawasaki Concours 14
2005 Honda GL1800 GoldWing
2002 Kawasaki ZRX1200R
1981 Honda CB900C

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 21238

RE: Tire wear& suspension help
12/07/14 6:57 AM

1. When riding over small bumps, potholes, etc., too much of jolt is being felt on arms thru handlebars and not being absorbed by forks.
2. When front brakes hit hard, forks feel harsh, front end dives.

Sounds like you already know the problem. The front suspension is too soft.

3. At higher speeds, front end feels like it's ready/wanting to wobble, especially if I might take one or both hands off bars.
4. Uneven patches of excessive front tire wear only on left side tire.

You have a hunch those are related too? That's what I would have thought. I'v read several threads where people had problems with the front wheel wobbling at speed and it was often due to a worn front tire.

Local dealer suggests:
1. Adjust front fork settings
2. Change fork oil (different weight)
3. I must be making a lot more left turns than right causing irregular left side tire wear.

All sound prudent except the last. It is possible that you lean the bike harder to the left but you'd see the same pattern on the rear tire. Maybe you have a bad tire? I'd try a new one and see if it happens again.

Are these minor front fork suspension adjustments, (a few clicks on the rebound/compression screws) intended mostly to be geared for skilled riders at fast speeds (or race track)?
I have made numerous adjustments both in and out a few clicks at a time. I have not realized any noticeable difference in my feel of the way the bike handles. Should I be?

Have a look at this. DIY SUSPENSION TUNING That might give you some background info whether you decide to tune or not.

Preload is the main one to set. A few clicks might not make much difference. There are something like 16 or 18 clicks on the front suspension. You're not the first big fella to complain about the Gen1 ZX-14 suspension. My guess is you will be stiffening up the front a lot more.

I'm curious what others may notice after making these adjustments. Is there noticeable change? How many clicks?
I have not changed the fork oil. Might it help? Any other suggestions to improve front fork feel?

Yes, for me at 200 lbs, I was able to stiffen up the front to stop bottom outs. I can't say I noticed a huge improvement in handling but no worse either. It still feels like it wallows in a hard corner but it always did. The rear shock was adjusted a great deal softer for me and I can say that definitely did help and make the bike safer. The rear was flying up off the ground over bumps.


* Last updated by: Rook on 12/7/2014 @ 7:00 AM *



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, will be resurected 2024 ZX-14R bran friggin NEW!

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wfozx14


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Location:

Upstate New York

Joined: 12/16/12

Posts: 891

RE: Tire wear& suspension help
12/07/14 7:00 AM

Tib at 300lbs and aggressive riding style you probably should look in to having your suspension revalved and stiffer springs installed. Traxxion dynamics is one option, people seem to be happy with them. As far as the tire goes does the rear tire show the same left side wearing out more? If I've ever worn one side out more than the other it must of been such a minor amount I didn't notice it.



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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 21238

RE: Tire wear& suspension help
12/07/14 7:03 AM

First step, measure your sag. Check out how in the tutorial. Sag ## might tell you a lot right away.



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, will be resurected 2024 ZX-14R bran friggin NEW!

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tib



Joined: 05/18/14

Posts: 52

RE: Tire wear& suspension help
12/07/14 10:11 AM

I am in So Cal. Lots of crown in our roads (3% to 5%. Tire pressure had not been checked prior to this, so it's likely that pressure wasn't correct. I could call my tire wear exactly as jwh20 describes, "scalloped".
It sounds like I have been making too big an issue over suspension settings instead of a worn out tire. I got new front tire yesterday so I now will give it a few days to see what happens, and will be more diligent about having correct tire pressure. Thanks for the suspension link, Rook. Good stuff. I'm gonna try to have a little patience with new rubber before attempting to follow procedure as outlined.
Thanks for the ideas and input. It helps.
Well gotta go now, I'm riding bike with it's new front skin down to stadium to watch my (super) Chargers beat the crap out of Tom Brady and the hated Patriots on Sunday Night Football. Hope I don't drink too much, ha ha
TIB

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jwh20


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Location: Indiana

Joined: 10/31/13

Posts: 203

RE: Tire wear& suspension help
12/07/14 11:14 AM

I am in So Cal. Lots of crown in our roads (3% to 5%. Tire pressure had not been checked prior to this, so it's likely that pressure wasn't correct. I could call my tire wear exactly as jwh20 describes, "scalloped".

Some blame this wear pattern on road crown but if that were the cause, the problem would be the same regardless of which side of the road you drive on. But this issue shows up as left-side wear in the USA and right-side wear in OZ.

Even if your number of LH vs. RH turns is about the same (and they are probably really close) the left turns take you over a much longer path. So the softer rubber compound that is in most modern sportbike tires gets 2-3 times the mileage on the left side than on the right side.



2008 Kawasaki ZX-14 Special Edition
2012 Kawasaki Concours 14
2005 Honda GL1800 GoldWing
2002 Kawasaki ZRX1200R
1981 Honda CB900C

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 21238

RE: Tire wear& suspension help
12/07/14 5:21 PM

..even so, I was getting a larger chicken strip on the left at one time. I had them down to a 1/8" right and 1/4" left. I haven't cornered that hard in more recent years so it's hard to say if I'm still doing that or if I've evened out my leaning left and right.

Glad you have it figured out, tib. Have a $9 beer for me at the stadium. LOL hope you guys know how to tailgate like Packer fans! Get shitfaced in the parking lot, soak it up with brats and fried cheese curds in the stadium.



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, will be resurected 2024 ZX-14R bran friggin NEW!

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zx14rider345


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Location: Noreaster

Joined: 10/12/13

Posts: 459

RE: Tire wear& suspension help
12/14/14 5:14 PM

It also could be that your tires are old, you didn't specify miles. You say low miles, but if you have originals tires on an 09 today they are most likely shot by now. Tires could be out of balance as well. I would get a new set of tires and throw a steering stabilizer on and your wobble go by by.



2012 ZX14R, 2016 BMW S1000XR

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yannih


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Location:

Queenstown New Zealand

Joined: 11/08/12

Posts: 2180

RE: Tire wear& suspension help
01/06/15 4:00 AM

Don't know what brand of tyres come with the 14's in the States or what tyres tib is using but a lot of brand new touring type bikes in Australia came with Bridgestone BT-020/021 series tyres.
They are known here as new bike destroyers.
Dont mean to offend any Bridgestone fans out there but the BT series that comes on new bikes are cheap garbage.
A few years ago after riding a little while on them I nearly lost the front end due to massive uneven wear on the right side of the front tyre that had developed on a trip away so quickly that I had not noticed it.
It was like I had ridden around a round about for 5000kms.
Afterwards I went directly to Bridgestone re the issue and they advised it was due to the camber of the road (Australia).
I looked the guy in the eyes and advised him to stop embarrassing himself and insulting my intelligence.
He stuck with his diagnosis regardless.
Now I'm sure Bridgestone do some great tyres for motorbikes but I wouldn't know because since then I have never supported or used their product again after the issue I experienced and the lack of customer service I received.

Also tib, at 300 pounds it sounds like the stock suspension may not have the adjustment you require and stiffer springs may be needed...


* Last updated by: yannih on 1/6/2015 @ 5:41 AM *



2012 Metalic Spark Black Kawasaki ZX-14R. Yoshimura carbon R-77 slip ons,Custom dyno ECU flash,Striker rearsets,Hyperpro RSC steering damper,HM Plus quickshifter,ASV C5 levers,Hel SS transparent red front/rear brake and clutch lines,Kawasaki/MRA vented spoiler screen,Carbon heel guards,R&G radiator guard,Powerbronze carbon rear hugger,ZX-10 front fender with fender extender,Yoshimura frame sliders,M-Factory rear stand stoppers,Escort Redline radar detector,Techspec tank grips and tank protector,Versys 1000 fender eliminator,Kaoko cruise control,Moto red oil cap,Oxford heated grips,Red magnetic oil drain plug,Red and black Bagster Spider rear seat bag (for touring only).

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BigSarg


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Joined: 11/20/14

Posts: 93

RE: Tire wear& suspension help
01/06/15 6:27 PM

Even if the new rubber improves things I would still suggest you either adjust your suspension yourself for your weight or take it to shop that will adjust it for your weight. As was previously suggested you should have your sag checked first, but I would be shocked if it is where it should be for your weight. New bikes are normally set for a rider of about 180 lbs.

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13917

RE: Tire wear& suspension help
01/06/15 7:38 PM

As mentioned, you need to wind up the spring rate to compensate for your weight.
Say the compression is too soft so when you jam on the fronts, your weight bias forward sags the springs and compresses too soon.

Rebound is how fast the front wheel is released by the spring about to bounce back to semi-memory to not letting the compression move faster so the front wheel is set back on the ground sooner. You can't see that happen with the naked eye, but if you could slow it down and see...

... Sort of see how sag will raise your body up an away from the wheels? See how that spring is stiffer and when you hit the brakes it dives less?

You can count the clicks and set them in the middle and go from there either stiffen the oil speeds or release the oil speeds. There is a needle and the more you screw it in the less oil flows past that needle taper. Screw it out the flow is faster.



Tormenting the motorcycling community one post at a time

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