Well I changed out my stock levers for a set of short levers. I installed new tires and changed the oil and went to Rotella t6 synthetic. Those are the three things that I changed out that I think may be causing this.

Last year, 2 gear wheelies no problem, power it up at 65-80 mph EASILY. This year I take her out after changing things and do a little scuff on the tires and get about 25 miles or so on them. I launch the bike from a 10 mph roll, it takes off but feels like its either spinning the tire or slipping the clutch. And it really didnt feel like it was spinning the tire. So I head out to the highway and make my way from the on ramp and get on it hard in 2nd gear around 7000 rpm and hit it. Nothing it just revs up and moves at the same time, but not like it used to. Again I think it can't be spinning the tire. But they are new tires.... so maybe they still need heat in them.

A few hours later I am on a trip to Kentucky from Michigan. Now I have around 150 miles on the bike. I crack the throttle in first gear a few times and the front end comes up like it usually did, no problem. I launch from a dead dig and slip the clutch a little and it takes off nicely with the front tire about 6 inches off the ground pulling strongly. I think hmm..... ok maybe it was the tires. So I get on the highway again and hit it hard around 7000 rpm in second gear, nothing, no wheelstand, no big rush of acceleration. I hit it in 3rd gear and I watch the tach jump a little and again no rush. I think yep, the clutches are smoked.....

So I ride normal and do 1000 miles that weekend. Come back to my shop, read up that the clutch levers being aftermarket china, might be the problem. So I check them.... seems like they weren't letting the clutch all the way out.... thats gotta be it. So I reinstall the clutch and take it out.... Same thing basically, but it does pull the tire slightly in 2nd gear, maybe 6 inches and it takes off decent but still not the same as last year.

It was late and I pulled the levers and looked at the factory and the aftermarket and the hole depth is definitely deeper, I can't really measure the two against each other because of the difference in shape. In goes the factory lever, and I haven't tested it out yet. I am hoping its back to normal.

BUT.... I am wondering about the Rotella T6. I haven't used that before......

BUT.... I also have 41,000 miles on the original factory clutch, but only about 25-35 drag strip passes on it, but some good street riding.

I don't understand how the clutch can be perfectly good last year and seem fine this year until I change the levers, oil and tires. Which all three could make the bike feel like its slipping the clutch to one degree or another. Tires are Shinko Verge x16, and I went through 3 sets of those last year at normal tire changing pace ( around 5000-6000 miles a set, same as my pilot powers, but cheaper ).

So without trying out the factory lever again till the weather breaks. What do you guys think. Obviously if the lever doesn't fix it, I am going to drain the oil and go back to dino oil or something and see if that is causing it. But I know others have used the Rotella T6 with no issues.

How long does a factory clutch last? If I get in 6 th gear at 40 mph and hit it hard all the way up to 100 mph, it doesn't slip. But maybe the torque multiplication isn't great enough in that gear to notice slippage.

Finally I think if I need clutchs I ll call Dwayne at Cycle Concepts and get the stacked drag pak he offers, since so many people rave about it vs the factory clutch, bang for buck price wise.

Input?

It was late and I pulled the levers and looked at the factory and the aftermarket and the hole depth is definitely deeper

See that red flag in design? My guess is the hole is deeper is the factor lever. The aftmkt hole is shallow, moves the rod out, not let it sink deeper in the lever hole. So that slight pull of the lever is the [shallow] hole doing it automatically. The pushrod can no longer let the depth [at the OE lever] grow as heat builds and as the rod cannot sink into the hole for expansion, this rod is stationary as the clutch plates move out; here comes the slip. Something to that effect. If the hole is deeper in the aftmkt, then it's the pin shaft hanging up, not the tip end of the pin that fits in that hole.

Hub, that was my thought also. I just haven't been able to get back on the bike. It snowed today.... was 72 on Saturday and now its 37 and snow.... Thanks Michigan!

I figured worse case, if the factory lever works. Ill machine the aftermarket levers hole deeper and try it again.

I had the same problem on after market Chinese levers,drilled the hole with bottoming bit ,matched to factory depth lever ,problem gone

So I ride normal and do 1000 miles that weekend. Come back to my shop, read up that the clutch levers being aftermarket china, might be the problem. So I check them.... seems like they weren't letting the clutch all the way out.... thats gotta be it.

China has nothing to do with it. Pazzos will do the same thing. Pazzo uses a flat tipped bit to drill that hole which is better than a pointed one like the Chinese use. You could dremmel that hole flat on the bottom and it would fit just like a PAzzo.

The factory lever will restore the performance. I also use Rotella T6 and no problems with the factory clutch lever. With the Pazzo clutch lever ---I was telling the same story as you nearly word for word. Tose Pazzos cost too much to throw them on the shelf. I hope to figure this out this summer. The Pazzo holds the pin in too far. It got really bad after that brass bushing froze from dirt. I have a thread on here somewhere. Can't look it up now, gotta work.

Rook I can machine mine. I have several CNC machines, so its not a big deal. If you want shoot me an email guns@customizedcreationz.com, I am sure I can come up with something or machine yours to work if needed.

Todd

I have a thread on here somewhere.

Here it is. Pics will show the problem I have with my Pazzo.

https://zx14ninjaforum.com/messages.cfm?threadid=6B654232-1372-66AE-3B17A97EB1E92431&page=1&searchTerm=Pazzo%20levers#10

Hate to dis Pazzos too much before I actually get to the bottom of this. It has always been a popular brand and many people report having no issues with Pazzos at all.

I have several CNC machines, so its not a big deal. If you want shoot me an email guns@customizedcreationz.com, I am sure I can come up with something or machine yours to work if needed.

You have CNC lathes? Really cool. I just had an interview at a place that creates faux environments for zoos, aquariums and theme parks, etc. They have a lathe but nobody knows how to operate it...so I'm drooling a bit thinking about getting my hands on it!

I have a small cnc lathe, most of my work is mill work, I have 4 cnc mills. I ve machine a bunch of parts for my Vmax's and I machined swing arm extensions for the 14. I just never installed them. Wanted to go faster on SWB before I slapped them on.

I ll post some pictures of my fix after I make sure that is what the problem is. I am hoping it is!

Yeah its my clutch....

The stock clutch held pretty good when it was slipping. It didn't just blaze out and slip like alot of clutches do. Which hence made me question the clutch in the first place. But yesterday I rode it and in 6th gear around 75 mph I gave it a little juice to pass someone and it just free wheeled.

I ordered a clutch from Dwayne at Cycle Concepts a couple of days before it happened. So hopefully it will be here this week and I can have it together.

I am not sure if its the Rotella T6 that caused the problem, the aftermarket clutch lever that caused it, or worn out clutches that caused it. But I think I will run regular oil in it now after I install the clutches.

I also got new springs from Dwayne, his hd units. Which whatever it means, I guess maybe they are slightly better than stock. Regardless I wanted to replace them just to be safe and for $30, why not I guess.

Funny how one week my Vmax clutch takes a dump and the next week the 14 clutch dumps.... I better not ride anything else.....

I did a little research...

http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GPCDOC_Local_TDS_United_States_Shell_Rotella_T6_5W-40_%28CJ-4%29_%28en-US%29_TDS.pdf

Its rated for motorcycles.

I can get it by my local Orielly for $17 a gallon. Normally it was $19.... So I guess maybe its coincidence....

Can't see where it's rated for motorcycles. Who told you this?
I'm sure I read (can't find the reference now) that motor car oils additives make wet clutches slip. Due to the additives they put in for car engines. Especially synthetic motor car oils.
Have you tried draining the oil, try flushing it with some cheap motorcycle oil first and then put in a good quality motorcycle oils. before you change the clutch. Might save you a few $$.

* Last updated by: untamed on 4/27/2015 @ 11:15 AM *

JASO MA MA2 rated, which is the rating for wet clutches in motorcycles.

MA2 is the newer version formulated for for catalytic convertors I believe.

So its rated for motorcycles with wet clutches. Its right on the bottle and in the information link I posted.

I've used it for a few years in the 14. No clutch slippage caused by that oil. I've stored with it too. I guess I would rather store with conventional just for peace of mind but I don't think it matters. It was stored with Rotella over this past winter. Rotella's smoothness doesn't seem to last a lot longer than conventional Kawai oil far as I can tell. Shifting feels great when Rotella is new but starts to feel a little notchy after about a thousand miles. It might be slightly superior to conventional in this regard. IDK, I haven't used conventional oil in so long I can't really recall but I can tell you Rotella isn't going to blow you away with it's longterm smoothness. It is however as cheap as buying Kawi conventional oil and I believe it keeps the oil galleries and bearings cleaner than conventional oil would. You can afford to change Rotella oil as often as conventional so why not use it instead? When it's fresh, it's as smooth as conventional and the engine runs nice and quiet as soon as it fires up.

Got my new clutch installed today and we are back to normal.

Easy install. And man were my fibers TOAST!!! There was virtually no fibers left on the majority. The steels all had a cracked heat checked area. So now new steels, new fibers, new hd springs from Dwayne at Cycle Concepts and we are good to go.

Oh and I went back to Dino oil, just plain Castrol motorcycle oil. They had the Rotella T6 there and I looked at the bottle and it didnt have the MA MA2 rating on it. So maybe they were older? I am not sure. But the price sky rocketed to $27 a gallon. Another reason I just went with the regular oil.

So far so good, I only put about 20 miles on it though.

So maybe they were older?

Glad you solve your problem CC.

* Last updated by: Rook on 4/29/2015 @ 6:57 PM *

Hmm.... that could be. Either way it was cheaper to use Castrol dino oil than it was anything else. I guess I just go back to the old standard.

About 750 miles this weekend on the bike with the new clutch and the aftermarket levers with no problems so far. I am going to machine the inside part a tiny bit to make sure its engaging 100%. I believe it is, but a tiny extra .010-.015 deeper isnt going to hurt it.

So far so good.