Anybody done this to there bike yet?I've been thinking about doing it to my Connie.My 14 has got enough power the way it is A little more out of the C14 would be nice!!!

Ninja, Is this the fleet in your stable right now?

Ummm...yea.I have an addiction!!!!

Ninja, you understand this is just a simple EPROM programmer that gets the source image from the USB port to you laptop or desktop, and pumps it out to the ECU as a complete overwrite on the other end?

It probably doesn't have the ability to backup the OEM image first, so if the write fails your bike will be unstartable until you get the write to work 100% or buy a new ECU. There is no "restart" it is all or nothing.

This is all Guhl does for the ZX10 and C14 also. The hard part is getting the images. It appears ECunleashed has quite a few of them.

Best to wait for someone else to do it, so you find out if it is any good. Can't just plug your laptop in and switch back, its permanent.

But you have enough bikes you could spare one even if the image write fails. Heh.

I was going to send my ECU out to AF1 racing.There a Aprilia dealer down in TX that I deal with for my Mille.

There's a guy here in WA that, for $450, flashes the ECU and gives a custom tune. I asked hime about doing a zx14 in THIS thread on the local forum, but have not heard anything back from him yet. If I like his answer, there is a group dyno session set up to happen in a couple weeks, where I could get it done for a discount ($350 I believe). I'm once again intrigued by the idea, but not sure what, if anything, the flash can do for big ninja that my piggys aren't already doing.

What if that guy brings you 14 to 190 hp Dogo? No more 14R? lool

I posted the link to the demonstration videos of the Guhl reflash for the C14 elsewhere. It would have exactly the same effects on a ZX14.

They got a small HP increase, but the main improvement is the secondaries open extremely early and stay open wide, so its as good as pulling flies without having to physically remove them.

None of the ECU tuners will give you a big horsepower increase, they all leave their ECU A/F and Ignition maps VERY safe (i.e., rich)

Dynotronics also does this, but I have seen no factual information about their version.

With Guhl we got videos of instrumented runs at idle, roll ons from 5th and 6th, and the instrument shows the secondary butterfly position (0 = closed, 100 = wide open), rpm, gear, throttle position, and A/F.

Before I'd give ECunleashed a penny, I'd want to see similar concrete evidence they know what they are doing. Saying you do is one thing, doing it is another.

The way to do this is use the re-flash image on your ECU as a way to remove restrictions (rpm limit, speed, etc.) and simulate removal of flies, and maybe get a couple more HP. Then use the piggy in the exact same way you would anyway, but on a less restricted ECU.

BTW, on the C14, the KTRC still works with the Guhl ECU installed.

* Last updated by: privateer on 10/25/2011 @ 10:45 AM *

What if that guy brings you 14 to 190 hp Dogo? No more 14R?

It's forty freekin' degrees here now... I'd be surprised if my bike didn't put down something close to 190. lol

They got a small HP increase, but the main improvement is the secondaries open extremely early and stay open wide, so its as good as pulling flies without having to physically remove them.

Lame... I already own a screwdriver.

None of the ECU tuners will give you a big horsepower increase, they all leave their ECU A/F and Ignition maps VERY safe (i.e., rich)

Wouldn't expect big gains... but I'm wondering if this guy is going to be restricted to the pre-excisting ECUnleashed file. He didn't respond today. I'll try to reach him by phone in the morning to get the lowdown.

Before I'd give ECunleashed a penny, I'd want to see similar concrete evidence they know what they are doing. Saying you do is one thing, doing it is another.

I'm with ya... but this isn't a send off your ECU and hope for the best type of deal... I'd be there to see what is going on first hand.

The way to do this is use the re-flash image on your ECU as a way to remove restrictions (rpm limit, speed, etc.) and simulate removal of flies, and maybe get a couple more HP.

You know if they were able to also get rid of the decel fuel cut, but retain the gear indicator on the Connies?

DogoZX wrote:

You know if they were able to also get rid of the decel fuel cut, but retain the gear indicator on the Connies?

Hmmm.... nobody has said anything about it. I mean, ever, in regards to the reflash or just in general. I don't think the C14s have a problem with the symptoms of the decel fuel cut. May be a) KTRC, and b) Variable intake cam timing keeping them from noticing or even experiencing the pop.

It may be the C14 ECU (which has to be different in that it controls a variable cam, right?) doesn't create the same deceleration fueling situation as the ZX14.

The reason I say use the ECU flash as your "flies out" solution, is it is for all practical purposes just as good as physically taking the flies out, if whoever produces the ECU image for the reflash makes it that way. They know how to completely control the secondaries, they found the "map".

And if you physically take the flies out on a 2012 ZX14, you will hinder KTRC, which uses the secondaries for traction control (at least, it does on the C14 and ZX10R).

Another consideration with the new 2012 ZX14, and one we don't have any facts about so can't really say for sure, is the KTRC in the new ECU. Is it a ZX10R ECU dumbed down for the ZX14? Or the C14 ECU with variable cam timing deactivated? No way to know yet, none of the folks who can dissect the ECU image has one yet.

* Last updated by: privateer on 10/26/2011 @ 4:23 AM *

I am D-J, hello? How come I've pulled the flies out of the R already? I've hacked into 3 sensors already and I'm running the (((Flying Limp Mode))) = Hard Set!

Why are you guys not wit me so far on the mode moods?

1. Remote actuator = Outside hanging on the fence calling the same shots.
2. Tre slammed on one wire.
3. Tre slammed on the other wire.

BINGO! D-J'd! a-N takes over. Why? Why are we not on the same page round whatever computer bike is the same bike!

* Last updated by: Hub on 10/26/2011 @ 7:26 AM *

There is a flash called a jibby? Gibby? whatever, it's a flash card or the thumb-drive kind of, stick it in your computer is that flat flash card out of your camera, your pro-cam, etc. The software is on the hard drive. YOu make a new map on the flash card. YOu now stick the card in the slot of the unit on the bike. Click burn = Flashed!

If you want it unflashed, go back to the post office, insure it for the price of the ecu, etc. Get it flashed back to stock. How close is the flashing now with some sort of understanding how you change the clicks from on to off. If I have the grid or the page that says that 5-6 1-4 gear page? It says, soft is the gear window, hard is the gear window gone!

Flash wise, you are in the page of the ecu. You see the hard and soft demand switches. You close the one, open the other. It keeps the gear window running. No wire hacks like the tre that clears the window and adds the code 6, or it says, we use the 6 map now. We use the a-N now. We were in the D-J sort of mode. We were sucking on the IAP. Now the IAP is in the a-N twitchy setting.

The faster ignition so nothing knocks sort of lost the linear advance. Now you hit it on/off is the advance sort of the check the ignition timing. Then install the D-J BACK IN LINE! You now see both the hard advance curve. You did have the smoother soft set, linear advance. Seat of the pantsayso.

My way of thinking is that Ridge has this thumb drive box, all wired to the computer. He finds the two wires that lead to the download part of the hand held tool the factory uses to load the ecu with the maps and shit. He has the broken into map reads or the soft/hard page radio boxes. He clicks the radio box to where it says [Hard]. This shuts off [Soft] setting. Clicks burn into the software, or the map is now on the thumb drive with the hard settings.

Pulls the thumb drive out or has to click a page so it shows the ecu is hot and running who knows the setup? I'm walking the flash in the abstract. That thumb drive has the new settings. Somehow, that card is going to be moved to the ecu somehow, click burn is the abstract. YOur new hard setting is now all in tre mode without the 6 running is my guess. It has to or you might as well pull a wire, short a wire/pull a connector = One or the other. Hard or soft, meaning.

And if you are not on the same page as the shop manual... Ain't my faultrolls!

* Last updated by: Hub on 10/26/2011 @ 8:41 AM *

I'm going to go with Guhl.$375 for the reflash and that includes shipping.He also has done the 09- ZX6R's too.

Look, I don't want to give away what Ridge knows. I am more guessing what is standard auto flash, using a handheld. Factory updates a driveability map, says this customer complaint map is going to write over the existing map. The moves have to be the hard set only is my guess. This sends the ecu back to you. If Ridge is there messing with the fuel/ign grid map(s) of the OEM, that is like Jeffo banging numbers on the phone.

There is no way to ask you what combos you have and then nail the map? Kind of funny, no? No dyno to see the load of your ass/luggage/accessories/loaded/not loaded/tire drag on load/a shit loadon'touchatrickey Lick is slick = You Wish!

The question is... If I don't like the settings; If I am selling the bike, going back to stock; can I return my ecu, have what was done, reversed? Then, Ridge would have to run so many customer combos on file, set it back to whatever it started with; [OR] It is so send it back to me, here you go, back to stock. Key Lick Kit Tea Clock, the mouse ran up the clock.... Okay, the monitor arrow on the platform year looking at... Say I'm close = Yes, it is reverse-able-&-ready to send back within 24 hours. Like I have to look you up or find soft, click and here ya go = Back to bone stock.

Priv wrote:

Hmmm.... nobody has said anything about it. I mean, ever, in regards to the reflash or just in general. I don't think the C14s have a problem with the symptoms of the decel fuel cut. May be a) KTRC, and b) Variable intake cam timing keeping them from noticing or even experiencing the pop.

Interesting... guess I just assumed all the modern Kaws had the fuel cut.

The reason I say use the ECU flash as your "flies out" solution, is it is for all practical purposes just as good as physically taking the flies out, if whoever produces the ECU image for the reflash makes it that way. They know how to completely control the secondaries, they found the "map".

Actually just got off of the phone with Nels (the tuner) and he was glad to hear that I hadn't removed my secondaries yet. He feels he can get a much smoother curve with them in place. Makes sense... Gonna get 'er done.

And if you physically take the flies out on a 2012 ZX14, you will hinder KTRC, which uses the secondaries for traction control (at least, it does on the C14 and ZX10R).

Another consideration with the new 2012 ZX14, and one we don't have any facts about so can't really say for sure, is the KTRC in the new ECU. Is it a ZX10R ECU dumbed down for the ZX14? Or the C14 ECU with variable cam timing deactivated? No way to know yet, none of the folks who can dissect the ECU image has one yet.

For sure a re-flash is the only way to go when dealing with all the fancy new electronics... but with our antiques (lol) the jury is still out... I will know soon.

ninjamaster wrote:

I'm going to go with Guhl.$375 for the reflash and that includes shipping.He also has done the 09- ZX6R's too.

Sweet!... if I was gonna mail my ECU to anybody, it would be Guhl... lotsa satisfied customers.

Hub wrote:

All set up...
Apparently he can't flash the zx14's ECU in house... but next Tuesday I'll get baseline runs with Brocks map and then a custom tune... Then my ECU will get sent out for a reflash, and when returned, the bike will be put back on the dyno... About two weeks we will FINALLY get a verdict.

Went to the tuner today. Here's the chart pre-flash...

I am supposed to go back next Thurs to have the ECU flashed. The ECU actually did not have to be sent off... just scanned and then the file sent (via email) to ECUnleashed. Then ECUnleashed emails the tuner the new file to be flashed into the ECU.

So here's the results on paper... Dyno was a a bit more stingy today compared to last week.

This chart, blue line is Brocks map (before flash) and red line is after flash:

This chart, blue line is custom tune (before flash) and red line is after flash:

I had them remove the TSL and raise the rev limiter 200 rpms. The decel fuel cut could not be removed with the flash.
So, as the charts show, some decent gains midrange... but nothing up top. Worth $450??? IMO, if you already have piggys, no. Gains would likely be the same, or similar, just yanking the secondaries and getting a custom tune.

your home made 14R is pushing + - 180 hp, that's pretty good, I wonder how much the v stacks and the air filter contributed to that #. The 10R map you posted showed also 180 hp (if I remember correct) do you know the set up for that bike. My next bike is a liter for sure, the power to weight ratio is just too good!!!

your home made 14R is pushing + - 180 hp, that's pretty good

I'm officially declaring mine a 14rr.

I wonder how much the v stacks and the air filter contributed to that #.

Air filter has already been shown not to add anything... The midrange stacks I'm running, I'd assume, are the reason my tq #'s are slightly higher than other charts I've seen with similar hp #'s.

The 10R map you posted showed also 180 hp (if I remember correct) do you know the set up for that bike.

Just an Akra slip on and ECU flash (2011 10r):

Beemer on same dyno :

My next bike is a liter for sure, the power to weight ratio is just too good!!!

For street riding and dragracing, there's no substitute for the torque of a big bore... not to mention the smoothness and stability.
... but if you're wearing your tires to the edges and/or dragging hard parts on your zx14, you'll have a blast on a litre bike.

* Last updated by: DogoZX on 11/11/2011 @ 12:51 AM *

The decel fuel cut could not be removed with the flash.

Interesting. 'Smooth out the subs' too, did he say?

Yep... That's the main thing the flash did... but could not remove the decel fuel cut w/o throwing a code.

Flash me for 1.1 pounds of torque? Not bad for no dyno pulling. But your 2-cents says; stick with a pig? Interesting.

I'm assuming that gain is from the subs fully opening quicker... Therefore, I'm assuming gain would be the same just yanking them out... $450 for flash, but still need a pig to trim fuel... Flash has a different fuel map, but it still needed to be tweaked with my PC5.

* Last updated by: DogoZX on 11/11/2011 @ 2:43 AM *

BTW: +4 lbs tq 5k(ish) to 7k(ish) rpms... which is very nice!

* Last updated by: DogoZX on 11/11/2011 @ 2:29 AM *

... but it still needed to be tweaked with my PC5.

Toggle me hard... But no, no one listens to turd dull was how many ears ago was I hard setting like a lot of, HARD... ON!?

Page is 3-43 me. I don't see anything about a hard... Oh, here it is! 1978, not 1999 is my crime. I'm off by a few years and it was in front of me all dis time. dish it out now... Ahhhhhhh, Digital! My camera is all in the static digital spike it'soooo hard!