Thats one of the problems with having a wet clutch, it wears and its doing it in side your motor kinda sucks huh! I dont know if dino oil could cause more clutch or engine wear wear than normal I never heard of any one that ever used it in a sport bike except durring break in, mabe your's is still breaking in!

Use conventional and change more often is my habit. I used a very expensive synthetic for motorcycles once and I couldn't tell the dif. After 500 miles of use, the synthetic was no better than conventional oils for motorcycles I use. Maybe it's about time I try some Mobil 1 or some other synthetic again.

How many miles would you run synthetic? I changed my Repsol 4T Racing oil at 2500 because it didn't seem better than conventional.

IF it were me....first I'd determine WHAT kind of metal it IS.The clutch steels are just that....steel.Aren't they?I wouldn't go blaming the clutch just yet.OR the oil.The basket itself...that's aluminum,right?MAYBE yer getting some bearing wear on the basket itself...where the crank is going through?I really don't know just what is what in there.I've had mine out,but everything went back together fine.IS IT POSSIBLE that it's being filed off from somewhere else?The cam chain hitting the inside wall or something?I don't know.It looked to me when Hub made his video of the cam chain showing the chain slack in the front run...it seemed to me like it was just barely hitting that inside wall....IDK.That would definitely cause some filings if it did that?I don't remember seeing a shoe on the front run there.One on top,and one at the tensioner...just two,right?

I'm probably wrong here...but I would think that after break in,and for a tad longer over time,every engine component that is in contact with something else would get to a place where it's stopped wearing,and just working.I don't get metal in my oil ever...no matter how I'm riding.Stock Kawi filter,Motul V300 10/40 full syn.????????????????????When she was new...there were some "dust" like amounts of silver metal in there(nothing alarming)...but that went away after around 5 oil changes.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 8/19/2010 @ 1:18 PM *

You guys are goingto love this-- This is almost as good as the time I ran through the house looking for my keys only to find them clenched in my hand

I used my oil drain pan to place under my chain to catch drips of kerosene from my chain as I cleaned it. When I pulled the pan out to empty it, there were sparkles in the bottom of the pan. WTF? I tried to pick one up with my finger but it would not budge. Tried another same thing. They all were stuck to the bottom! I emptied the kero and looked in the pan. The wet surface is highly refractive, of course. The black plastic appears much darker than it does when dry so the sparkles show up when the pan is wet----with kerosene, oil, anything liquid that is more or less transparent.

The friggin' pan has built in gold/bronze sparkles! Who the F%$^K thought that up? They must be designed to scare the crap out of DIYers so we go back to the auto supply to buy some phoney engine sealnt or anti wear oil to fix the imaginary problem.

The pan is a low profile ~4 inches high and ~22 inches in diameter. Has a very small notch on the side to pour at (and it might s well not even be there). The pan is black and it was the cheapest I could find. Works fine once you get the knack of pouring....just renmember, if you see sparkles, check to see that they are not a part of the pan.

I'm sure I had some larger pieces of silver clutch material but a lot of what I was seeing was a part of the pan.

lol

LMAO!!!!You funny American.

I have in the past geotten a small amount of flat, silver flakes and I am calling that clutch wear caused by my habit of gassing while still in the clutch when I shift fast.

New concern: Found this on my magnetic drain plug. Like a lunkhead, I wiped the plug As soon as I pulled it. Noticed the sliver a while later. I am pretty sure that did not come off the rag or the shelf the plug was set on. I clean ed the plug thoroughly and I did get a tiny bit of dust that seemed to never want to let go of the magnet.

I'm not worried yet. I missed a couple shifts and jammed it into gear badly twice. Testing the new quickshifter and just starting to ride again.....if I had my druthers, Ida rolled to the roadside and safely clicked it in.

Well, any ideas?? I guess I'm just looking for any thoughts. I already know all I can do is watch every oil change and hope I don't see any n more big chips.

Where would a chip like that come from and where would it go before it found its way to my magnetic drain plug?

* Last updated by: Rook on 5/9/2012 @ 3:51 PM *

The strainer on the pick-up tube for the oil pump PROBABLY wouldnt let that sliver through.

Where did it come from? Since your scoot has some mileage... and you run a quick shifter... my guess is it was shed from your transmission.
Either from a dog on the hubs or from a recess in the gears.

My .02 ;)

* Last updated by: hagrid on 5/9/2012 @ 4:24 PM *

After a year I pulled my Pipercross Race filter.It wasn't very dirty and That concerned me.I cleaned and oiled it and put it back in.Then I bought a new K&N from a member here and jerked that Pipercross out.Just didn't trust it.
Craig

I doubt if it came all the way down from the intake. I use the stock air filter. I'll run my BMC filter at the track but no steady diet of that on the street.

Where did it come from? Since your scoot has some mileage... and you run a quick shifter... my guess is it was shed from your transmission.
Either from a dog on the hubs or from a recess in the gears.

I'm going to have to figure out what clutches and gearboxes are all about some day. I just have the vaguest idea. Haven't a clue what a shift dog is.

I'm guessing it is the edge of a tooth from a gear that didn't mesh. I actualy heard a quick grind when I jammed it into 2nd.

The piece looks rounded. If I had actually ever seen the stuff in there I might have some idea what it came off of.

@Rook: if i was any friggin' good at posting links (or pictures for that matter) i would direct you to some nifty info
that would clear it up for you.

Constant mesh transmissions cant grind the gear teeth... its the dogs on the hubs trying to engage the recesses of the gear you are selecting.
Google constant mesh trans animations etc. Once you see it in action youll understand right away ;)

Also... on this forum go to off topic postings>f*ck this sh*t>go to the last page and find Hub's post dated 4/29... he
posted a vid of dogs on a hub.

* Last updated by: hagrid on 5/9/2012 @ 7:07 PM *

You still have that piece of whatever it is?Check it out...aluminum won't stick to a magnet...that's yer first clue.I've no idea what that is...looks like it's covered in sludge to me.Clean it up...then post a pic of it.IF it's a...shifter fork piece,something like that...well...IDK.Could easily be like was mentioned...crushed berween a gear piece of something...but...it should be much flatter if it was subject to being run between something like a trans gear or whatever.IF or course,it was soft enough to allow that.Is it?...soft I mean.That might tell ya something right there.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 5/9/2012 @ 7:00 PM *

Yes, I still have it. It definitely sticks to the magnet. There is also a smaller piece at 8 o'clock. I think the black fuzz is partly fibers from the black rag I used to wipe it . It was hard to tell if it was all fibers it seemed like at least some of it was attracted to the magnet.

Her's some constant mesh tranny stuff.

http://www.gadgetjq.com/transmission.htm

I had black 'sludge' on the tip of my magnet at the first oil change.Second one...not so much.But NO chips or pieces in there.That's a good size chip ya got there.Comparatively speaking that is.How about opening up yer oil filter...lookin at those pleats?That chunk I don't think could get up inside the motor...do you?It HAS to go through that filter if it's anywhere at the bottom of the motor,doesn't it?Those magnet plugs really DO help IMO.I'd never go back to a stock one.That pickup screen in there...as was said...it wouldn't let something like that get up in the oil flow...would it?Could it get up there somehow?IDK.It ended up on the bottom there...so....now I wonder WHERE it came from even moreLOL!!!!It's not aluminum...we know that.

I see looking at the big one...it's got a curved surface on one side...looks like it to me anyway in that pic.You say you clunked a shift or something...slammed it...whatever i was you said.You don't think MAYBE it chipped a piece off the gear tooth in there somewhere?Maybe this was already explained.I would think though...even IF it did somehow chip something from a tooth that small...it most likely won't hurt anything.I wouldn't worry about it.It got caught at the plug...it would have to somehow make it through the pickup tube...and then through the filter.It'd never make it through there.I seriously doubt it was "floating around with the oil flow" somehow.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 5/10/2012 @ 8:54 AM *

How about opening up yer oil filter...lookin at those pleats?

That chunk I don't think could get up inside the motor...do you?It HAS to go through that filter if it's anywhere at the bottom of the motor,doesn't it?

Those magnet plugs really DO help IMO

I see looking at the big one...it's got a curved surface on one side...looks like it to me anyway in that pic.

.You say you clunked a shift or something...slammed it...whatever i was you said.You don't think MAYBE it chipped a piece off the gear tooth in there somewhere?

It's hard to say what the noise was. NOt a long drawn out vibration like gear teeth slipping. I think it was more of a very short CRACK like two teeth stuck against each other and they slipped and snapped together when I forced the shift. Ugly noise.

even IF it did somehow chip something from a tooth that small...it most likely won't hurt anything.I wouldn't worry about it.It got caught at the plug...i

I believe you're right. Just a little instant ware on a tooth in there. Hate to have it happen but this bitch has 30K miles on her and I got her to ride fast. If she breaks, I will fix until one day ..NEW BIKE!!

* Last updated by: Rook on 5/10/2012 @ 10:01 AM *

I had a guy call from a track day to tell me he had a WASHEER come out with his drain plug on his Ducati. He sent a pic and we determined it was a tranny shim. Well there is no way for one of those to come loose so Ducati must have left it in there for a "spare". Like the extra valve adjuster bucket we found in the bottom end of a KTM 450 MXC...

Mad

Your transmission... in all likely hood... is fine.
The "teeth" of your gears are all still there... because that chip is not from a gear tooth.

Your trans gears have holes in the sides... kinda like a wheel that only has four spokes. Those holes are recesses. The gear rides
on the shaft via a needle bearing... you can spin the gear while the shaft remains motionless and vice versa.

Right beside the gear is a hub. The side of the hub facing the gear has four big projections... they are the inverse of
holes in the gear. The hub fits into the side of the gear when the dogs (projections) and recesses line up. Now the gear
is locked to the shaft. Im glossing over some details but this is the overview.

What you did was try to make a hub that was spinning rapidly... try to engage a gear that was slowing down.
Try to see it in your mind. Four spinning fingers trying to go into holes that arent spinni
ng at nearly the same rate.
THAT is where the grinding sound comes from. The BANG is when the dogs finally forced their way into the recesses.

The chip... in all likelyhood... is the leading edge of one of the dogs for the hub of the gear you were trying to select. It happens.

Try to see it in your mind. Four spinning fingers trying to go into holes that arent spinni
ng at nearly the same rate.

Yes, I believe I got the picture, hagrid. That is actually very reassuring. It's abusive enough but four big knobs not lining up right with 4 holes sounds much preferable to little gear teeth scraping past each other.

seems to me that if I immediately pull the clutch a second time and shift up before much time elapses, it goes into the next gear smoothly. When I just sit there and coast for a second not knowing what to do, that is when the rough shifts happened. I'm not sure about that though. It hasn't happened frequently enough, I'm glad to say.

BAD DAwG!!

* Last updated by: Rook on 5/10/2012 @ 9:34 PM *

I've had that false neutral thing happen as well...before you can realize she's not really in gear...you're on the gas then BLAM...in a split second.I've been able to 'catch' myself a couple of times when powering up and fast shifting like you say.For an instant,I can somehow "feel' she hasn't slipped all the way in...then I pull the clutch as fast as I can,and she goes in...luckily.Without TOO much drama.But I hate that feeling.It happens.

@Rook: i hope ive restored your faith in your scoot... and KHI ;)
All the big manufacturers make the hubs and recesses beefy for the above reason.
My roadstar has a screen between the tranny and the crank sump to catch what is clinging to your magnet.
Its expected the tranny will shed SOME metal from the hubs and recesses.

But for the sake of exrteme longevity... please dont "short shift" anymore!

@Rook & Grn: if this happens again... heres a nifty trick.
Lets say your rolling at 70 mph in fourth gear turning over 5500 rpms. You go to nail fifth gear but you find a false neutral.
Simply keep making revolutions for the next gear that match your current speed and complete the shift.

If youre still rolling at 70 mph and you were wanting fifth gear... hold revs at approx 4800 and shift with authority.

Simply keep making revolutions for the next gear that match your current speed and complete the shift.
If youre still rolling at 70 mph and you were wanting fifth gear... hold revs at approx 4800 and shift with authority.

I can only wish I had that kind of knowledge to estimate. Now y=that I think about it, I have video of me missing gears a couple times at the track but it went right into gear on the second attempt which was made within less than 1 second after the miss. The couple that sounded so rough were the ones where I sat and thought about WTF to do now. I knew it was going to bang into gear I just didn't know how to avoid it.

Yes, thanks for the tips hagrid. I'll do my best to avoid the soft toe. Actually I seem to have the hang of the shifter now and I try to not use it on the street (although it is a lot of fun). You think the bike doesn't go a lot faster without the brief delay of pulling the clutch??????? hoooooooooo! Another mod way tooo fast to be of any use on the street. I can't get out of third under 100 mph.

I should have worded that another way... sorry Rook.

More intuitive is sound. Youve pounded... into your ears... the sound of your revs for a given speed/gear for miles now.
Do what SOUNDS right... no needle watching. ;)

* Last updated by: hagrid on 5/12/2012 @ 7:52 PM *

are you saying, when a shift is missed, pull the clutch and rev to the rpm the motor would have been turning IF the upshift had gone in? If so, even I could do that.

Yup!

The numbers i was using were for illustration.

cool. I'll try it but I hope i won't need to . Thanks for the info, hagrid.