Holly Shit! ... you win for he most cool toys

---

Wait... wait... wait.

The scooter in the middle: I've seen it before...

That one belongs to another.

---

Wait... wait... wait.
The scooter in the middle: I've seen it before...
That one belongs to another.

Keen Eye Hagrid. You may recognize two of the bikes. The 2010 LE I built for Phazer who has since gone to the Super Duke. Posters on his wall of that bike finally got the best of him and the purchase was made.

The other green bike belonged to ZX Beast who has gone to a 2015 ZX14. When the new colors caught his eye that was it, fish on. Afterwards when the decision was made Not to keep the two bikes I jumped at the sale. Timing just worked out poorly which has left me with three Turbo ZX14s. Absolute Madness. But I sure do love it.

Do you have different setups

Black Bike 2010 LE 260 hp Pump

Green 2012 320 hp pump

Green 2012 455 hp on C16 Race Fuel. Now that I own the bike that # going to over 500hp real soon.

Dayum Romans you got the stable. Prue prancing horses.. but ya really need the H2 in your stable... justa a matter of time..

Boost or no boost you really need it. Ill be the 1st to lay down a bet that you'll hqve one by the end of the year.

---

I really believe 500 hp in a 14 is something I can't fathom. What happens with that kind of power? Someday, I must have that.

---

500hp for drag racing with extended swing arm, sure. With normal wheelbase on a curvy road with a little turbo lag thrown in, I imagine it is precarious at best. I’m curious to know how the modern traction control copes with such power.

I've ridden a 385rwhp Hayabusa. It was an experience for sure.

---

Do you have different setups
Black Bike 2010 LE 260 hp Pump
Green 2012 320 hp pump
Green 2012 455 hp on C16 Race Fuel. Now that I own the bike that # going to over 500hp real soon.
Link | Top | Bottom

Congrats Romes!

---

You've heard of RCC,now there's a new kid on the block,RTG...Ricks turbo garage??

---

Rick - thank you again for your help, even though it wasnt for me directly. I appreciate your ability to share knowledge even when you don't get paid.

So here's the story, it might help someone who experiences the same.
In South Africa there aren't that many flashers, or at least that I know of. It's also very expensive to send an ECU out to any of the guys mentioned on the forum here.
So I get a mate of mine getting a flash done on his 2012 14r. Has a PCV and autotune on as well. This is where the trouble came in. 1-3 pulls strong, 4-6 has a jerk/stutter on low throttle position and roll on. If you go through the gears quickly it goes well.

First there is a lot of different maps loaded and testing done with no solution. Now it goes back and forwards to the dealer who eventually sends the ECU back to flasher and he takes some of the files back to stock, like traction control. None the less no fix.

So I drop Romans a mail asking for his input. Here was his answer
[quote]ok let me explain reason for his 4,5 & 6 Studder

On bikes that use an O2 sensor in the stock exhaust have a closed loop area
that cannot be adjusted by the Power Commander or Flash Alone. If you make
adjustments with the PCV or Flash in the closed loop area the O2 sensor will
sense these changes and the ECM will alter the fuel curve accordingly.

If you want to have full fuel control over the entire RPM range of your bike
then you will need to bypass the closed loop area which a O2 eliminators
will accomplish. If you are looking for the best fuel economy and not
worried about making changed to the closed loop area you can leave the stock
O2 sensors connected and still make changes outside of the closed loop area
in the Flash. Make sense ?

It's Simple. All my Ozzy Flashes have Zero Issues. Now, as for how to fix it
in the Flash is really a No Brainer once you understand the issue. Ignore
the sensor and bike will studder in Cruz

Tell your friend here is the fix./[quote]

So we disconnect the std O2 sensor and the optimiser and lo and behold a whole different bike. Pulls like a rocket in all gears. It turns out the dealer thought that because the sensor was eliminated in the flash it could just be left plugged in as the ECU would ignore it. Well we have all learnt now that it does effect it if it's still plugged in.

The ECU will go back on Monday for the flasher to undo all the restrictions again and this time have a look at the sensor elimination in the flash.

Now I know what a flash does on a ZX14R, and now I understand what you guys are saying. It's WOW, it makes the bike so much stronger, and smoother with much more throttle response. I want it as well for my 2014 model.

I've now heard all the good and some bad reports on flashing. So my next question is how do I know what a good flash is and not?

What should I be asking the flasher for?
Restrictions removed - top end and rpm. O2 sensor eliminated, traction control to stay off when bike is restarted, what else?

What is there to watch out for when flashing? Common mistakes or issues.

Also what map should I be running after my flash? Do I run the same map as before but now only populate the closed loop cells?

Look forward to some of your input and experiences

---

So low and behold we pulled the 02 and limped the bike twice. Interesting. We now run in a backup, no sensor in play we travel high in the mountains. I'd have the pc with zero cells is run without the 02 connected all day long. If I head up in altitude with less air, I'd have the pc AFR reading all the time, see where the fuel to air is the more I climb? Then, toggle the pc's other map to a lean running 14.0 celled map. No need for the 02 if you can build a map on the laptop, etc. I'd have my lean numbers figured out as to where the code is setting the altitude in zero map. If it's within range, no need to do anything. If I initiate auto-tune, budda-boom-budda-Ping is one way to deal with altitude and can clean up my map [if] I sustain the throttle long enough so each 250rpm increments can calc a learn... Romes?

---

Rick - thank you again for your help, even though it wasnt for me directly. I appreciate your ability to share knowledge even when you don't get paid.

Your more than welcome. The pleasure was all mine. To often individuals use a bad situation of others to fill their own pockets. This makes getting to the bottom of a issue very difficult. Always nice to bounce ideas off someone who does not stare directly at your wallet. Glad I could Help.

So I drop Romans a mail asking for his input. Here was his answer

ok let me explain reason for his 4,5 & 6 Studder

On bikes that use an O2 sensor in the stock exhaust have a closed loop area
that cannot be adjusted by the Power Commander or Flash Alone. If you make
adjustments with the PCV or Flash in the closed loop area the O2 sensor will
sense these changes and the ECM will alter the fuel curve accordingly.

If you want to have full fuel control over the entire RPM range of your bike
then you will need to bypass the closed loop area which a O2 eliminators
will accomplish. If you are looking for the best fuel economy and not
worried about making changed to the closed loop area you can leave the stock
O2 sensors connected and still make changes outside of the closed loop area
in the Flash. Make sense ?

It's Simple. All my Ozzy Flashes have Zero Issues. Now, as for how to fix it
in the Flash is really a No Brainer once you understand the issue. Ignore
the sensor and bike will studder in Cruz

Tell your friend here is the fix.

Untamed, you now know the cause. Also know what symptoms are if the AFR is Off of the preprograming spec set by kawi. Now you need to ask yourself the Question. What did the flasher do to create the stutter in the first place ?

So my next question is how do I know what a good flash is and not?

Well this question leads us back to where the issue started. Your 02 sensor is telling the ECM where your bikes AFR should be in Cruz. Now it's Not ? So what did the flasher do wrong ? This depends on your point of view of course. Maybe the flasher will blame Kawi for bad stock AFR #'s in Cruz. Which is silly but I can assure you this is happening, as I have heard it. So we unplug input to bike brain. Problem solved,,, or is it ?

Ask your self the next question. What is my AFR at Cruz "Now" after the Flash ?

What should I be asking the flasher for?
Restrictions removed - top end and rpm. O2 sensor eliminated, traction control to stay off when bike is restarted, what else?

Safety Mode Removed In both Timing maps as well as STP Maps.

Also what map should I be running after my flash? Do I run the same map as before but now only populate the closed loop cells?

Look forward to some of your input and experiences

What Map ? This I assume you mean fuel map for PCV ? Where did you get your first map ? Dyno made or on line ?

So low and behold we pulled the 02 and limped the bike twice. Interesting.

Lol, ya that's one way of putting it. Once has a bad ring to it. Twice just plain wrong. YUK

We now run in a backup, no sensor in play

Ok, I have been thinking allot about this one. In this case, is there a back up ? Is the back up the same as the rest of our 14's which have no 02 sensor input. I think it is. Yet, no way to prove. Here in Canada we have no Factory 02 sensor bikes for me to run tests on.

I'd have the pc AFR reading all the time, see where the fuel to air is the more I climb? Then, toggle the pc's other map to a lean running 14.0 celled map.

No need for the 02 if you can build a map on the laptop, etc.

I'd have my lean numbers figured out as to where the code is setting the altitude in zero map.

If it's within range, no need to do anything. If I initiate auto-tune, budda-boom-budda-Ping is one way to deal with altitude and can clean up my map

[if] I sustain the throttle long enough so each 250rpm increments can calc a learn

... Romes?

Hubster you have nailed it. This is how I run everyday everywhere. I always know My AFR. To often guys will brag up there tune without ever really know what their own bike is doing. What works for one bike does not always work for all.

Something worth mentioning here. Guys have been sending me their ECU's after having reported issues with their flashes and receiving little help from the said flasher.

I am trying to Help as much as I can. I have run dozens and Dozens of tests. Results are Mind Melting. Hurts the brain. I can tell you this for sure. "Once you Flash Your ECU ONCE Your All In. If for whatever reason flash does not take, a new ECU is your only option. So sorry but you guys need to know there are risks.

Pics show timing #'s, AFR Numbers, Throttle position Bike temp etc. Had to take pictures to try and keep results straight. Video with sound would have been better. Pics to small, very hard to see readings

Brought this over from my post on 1441.

Test were performed on Four ZX14R ECU's. Target PCV Fuel AFR 13.5

In these tests, two Of the ECU's were coded. The other two Were said to Have Zero codes Showing. One of these two was Flashed Prior(this was my own) the other was never flashed. Or maybe it was ???

Job, Start the bike record results. Simple right ?

Results were so all over the Map even with pictures I could not keep the results straight. Nor could I think my way through the differences in timing #'s or AFR's. So,,,

After Brain Cramps, ALL FOUR ECU's were Flashed Exactly the same. PCV Map was set for fueling AFR of 13.5. All exactly the same. With Bike now Running testing begins again.

One ECU that was in my bike which has been flashed Dozens and Dozens of times performed perfectly. Timing steady. AFR Steady. Constant. world is Good

The other three would not and could not maintain a proper AFR. Nor could maintain a steady smooth Idle. Sound was just Not right.

Results show the Two ECU's with check Engine lights on performed very similar to the one with no check Engine Light. So, now what ? ,, Coded ECu's were cleared. Restart Bike begin tests Again. UGH !

Testing Results showed three of the four ECU's still could NOT keep steady timing #'s Or a maintainable AFR. What to try next ?

So,,, Next, Turn Auto Tune to Auto adjust AFR Table Live in real time, maybe with running bike, hunt down faster results for fueling. Plan, 1200 RPM to 4500 build new fuel maps. Results yielded AFR slamming Rich Lean until bike would stall. Made building complete map impossible.

So where am I with all this ????? "No where",,, I can Not find a constant (YET!). If I could, I could fix it. Or Tune around it, work with it or something,,,,, It's like the IAP map is moving but how ???? This is not possible.

Have to walk away for now. Head is Mush. Try again tomorrow.

If any of you guys that read this have bad ECU's I want them. Need to find what they have in common. Maps can't move in different RPM windows so my results of testing is Flawed. I keep telling myself I'm doing something wrong. Need better software. My OCD has got me head fucked on this one. Can't let go. One full day and counting Lol.

I know guys out there have coded these ECU's. I am trying to find the common denominator. Or at the very least be able to recognize a bad ECU even if there is no visible signs of corruption. Just because check engine light is not shown does not mean all is Good. Tests performed above clearly shows this to be the case, if nothing else.

* Last updated by: Romans on 6/1/2015 @ 6:06 AM *

What should I be asking the flasher for?

Back in the day when it was all modules, If you were unhappy with something, you just try a different map or remove the mod altogether. I think a lot of people like myself installed things like AutoTune and PC5 without having a good understanding of how they work. That was ok as long as you had a clue what the thing was supposed to do.....someday when you had time to mess with it you could learn more about it hands on.

With flashing, the control over the changes in the bike are taken out of the hands of the bike owner. You just send you ECU off and hope what comes back is better than before. I'm sure a lot of owners just getting into the modding scene find this quick and inexpensive rout enticing. If they don't already understand engine tuning, there's really no need to learn because it's all up to the flasher. Flashing is literally plug and play. Pay your money, get on the bike and ride. Unplugging and fixing is another story. If you don't understand engine tuning like 85-90% of the owners who get a flash, how are you going to ask for anything? You can't ask for what you don't know. The point of all of this is that getting educated about how the engine works BEFORE modding is more important now than it ever was in the past. We have the majority of owners who are very happy with their flash but the ones who are not ---? They can't ask for what they don't know.

HAha, case in point, I'm getting lost a few times reading Romans post above. Read, read, read all ya can read. Learn learn learn all ya can learn. Ask lots of questions. Someday, Romes, we'll have a great big How-To on all of this and anyone who wants to take the time will be able to have the knowledge. Or maybe they'r ebetter off just not knowing! KNowledg is power, got yer books go read 'em.....wisdom is ignorance, stupidity, I call it freedom..

---

... individuals use a bad situation to fill their own pockets.... getting to the bottom of a issue... Always stare directly at your wallet.

Be right back, gotta go to the bank.

The net is one policing kind of media. Some of these flashing guys need to treat their customers more in a happy-happy, or I no eat is eat a few ECU's at the prices they are getting. They either warn the customer it's out of their pocket they have the klinker brick, not an ECU that can flash without coding. So does the 02 remain out of the loop? Looks like? And I can't tell for sure, so my steps might fall over themselves, but I think about that formula and there are so many cell moves or you mess with the preset you can't literally install 2 hard parts in the ECU is my guess? Stick with that thought about clicking the software to have the 3 parts perform this timing DTT. It's getting so wired up complicated... Here comes the hand-...

Testing Results showed three of the four ECU's still could NOT keep steady timing #'s Or a maintainable AFR. What to try next ?

I think you hit it. "Sustainable Timing" says it all. I'd have to track each leg and see if the one leg moves to a fast timer and jumps or is wired up next to a slow timer. Back to 3 wires and the 3rd wire moves to the next timing chip. This changes base 'Cuff." "Hand" is the software. So if there is a table for the fast chip setup, a table for the slow beat, I'm not going to bore you with the movements.

Results yielded AFR slamming Rich Lean until bike would stall. Made building complete map impossible.

Interesting. Again, no one can explain this to me so I am on my own in, stepenclature. So knowing the following mean exactly the same, there are only 2 moves to this box. And if they time the tone wheels, there is a fast timing and there is a slow timing chip wired together, or one corrects the other say. One meets a threshold, the other calls the ball, yes? 2 moves against 2 moves is the calc, no? I sure can't ask mistu or denso how they do it, so the only other way is?

So where am I with all this ????? "No where",,, I can Not find a constant (YET!).

There are 2 constants. Vac vs. Velocity = Heat ~ (pressure)x(volume) IS PROPORTIONAL TO (mass) x (temp). The constant is 0 inside the chamber. Everything else is a wave of more frequency you are looking at, and she never moved from that number. Suck or blow, 0 is the number back up the pipe is no other number going up there. Until you recognize this> constant:

What remains constant on the valve close? 0
What remains constant on throttle lift? 0
What remains constant as 0? Off
What remains constant in the sustain? 760mmHg
What remains constant if a short happens? 1
WATThe fuck just happened? On
WATThell just went the other direction? The constant.
WATT can be measured and if out of spec? ON = Heat... Ready?

High time=Low time=(0.69 R1xC) = A formula number times a singe Resistor times the capacitor = How I formulate 3 guys that: Balance in a 50/50%, ready? DUTY CYCLE = DTT.

If I could, I could fix it. Or Tune around it, work with it or something,,,,, It's like the IAP map is moving but how ???? This is not possible.

Oppseas! I can't believe it's not butter. I think table On layered over table Off? I think 1 layered over layer 0? I think Hi layered over Lo and behold = HOLD one or the other in your hand. Hard is the switch is on so dick is up. Low, dick is the limp, so dick my suck! (says the movements made?)

Have to walk away for now. Head is Mush. Try again tomorrow.

If I am in the software, there are WATT kind of moves? 5% range and oppseas, see how the (-) cells are triggered? How far in binary did you shoot out of range. I think the tables caught it faster than you moved your finger off the key was my experience with mother tea's kitECU.

If any of you guys that read this have bad ECU's I want them.

Hey, no fun! I'll take a crack at one, you can have the rest.

Need to find what they have in common.

Seeing how far that 5% window is, and I am not certain about that figuring into the mapping when the factory handles that? But that has to be factored in as having a balance and here is 5%? Sounds like the same calc you'd use as 0.7v as a given; once connected or disconnected is that spike number of an amp? So I've seen that number used in the formula. Is that about all the percentages the software is set to? So the software cells fall within this range of hardware and its set frequency? But play with 5% to balance, or change hard parts you want to go higher/lower in nanoseconds(R1)/microfarad sizes?

So the frequency can take so many microfarad before the C (capacitor) is filled and oopseas = A remote 'Decoupling' capacitor just sucked up your DTT and when the ground happens, all caps go to ground and reread the Caps. So your entry got the boot in the spare tank, the ECU keeps reading the default; until you math the numbers back to a BALANCE (of a fixed truth table for the hardware and so many resistor bands better match the capacitor and now fine tune it with the software = HELLO!?!?!?

Maps can't move in different RPM windows so my results of testing is Flawed. I keep telling myself I'm doing something wrong. Need better software. My OCD has got me head fucked on this one. Can't let go. One full day and counting Lol.

I'm looking at the tuning from the backdoor, up the wires, thru the resistors, the chips, capacitors, tables, truth is, I am no closer than you figuring this out. But as much as I can figure, here are 3 variables, and my penultimate number to fall back on.

I am trying to find the common denominator. Just because check engine light is not shown does not mean all is Good. Tests performed above clearly shows this to be the case, if nothing else.

If only the stock map was saved. I'm thinking why the many part numbered ECU's may have different DTT's? And with different timing, aka, duty cycles spitting euro4 or cali CARB, or 48 state, or SEA, see the different parts to change the frequencies within [duty cycle] range? Past range the flip goes to flop.

Ah, maybe in internal single chip goes flip to flop, yes, why not the low-hi flip to flop is from low duty to fast duty... wink-wink... tre says timing retard is now in the faster trigger of the DTT and this set of 3 paRTs = Resistor calls the (DTT) Timing.

Mother the fuck board is fuck you!

* Last updated by: Hub on 6/1/2015 @ 10:21 AM *

---

With flashing, the control over the changes in the bike are taken out of the hands of the bike owner. You just send you ECU off and hope what comes back is better than before. I'm sure a lot of owners just getting into the modding scene find this quick and inexpensive rout enticing. If they don't already understand engine tuning, there's really no need to learn because it's all up to the flasher. Flashing is literally plug and play. Pay your money, get on the bike and ride. Unplugging and fixing is another story. If you don't understand engine tuning like 85-90% of the owners who get a flash, how are you going to ask for anything? You can't ask for what you don't know. The point of all of this is that getting educated about how the engine works BEFORE modding is more important now than it ever was in the past. We have the majority of owners who are very happy with their flash but the ones who are not ---? They can't ask for what they don't know.

Rook - You are so right, and had this bike come back with the O2 sensor disconnected we would have been none the wiser. Thus I'm drawing on expertise/knowledge that is available here before I go ahead.

What Map ? This I assume you mean fuel map for PCV ? Where did you get your first map ? Dyno made or on line ?

Correct I was talking about PCV map. Based on your recommendation that I keep the PCV and autotune as it then gives us the tools to fine tune. Currently I'm running a map Chris at Power commander sent me. But I also have the map you sent me some time back.

I am trying to Help as much as I can. I have run dozens and Dozens of tests. Results are Mind Melting. Hurts the brain. I can tell you this for sure. "Once you Flash Your ECU ONCE Your All In. If for whatever reason flash does not take, a new ECU is your only option. So sorry but you guys need to know there are risks.

So how would someone know without having the test equipment if a flash took or not? If you now have a "brick" What are the symptoms?

* Last updated by: untamed on 6/1/2015 @ 12:37 PM *

---

Untamed's question is the question of the decade. After flashing how do you know that it is good? If anyone remembers when I got my ECU back from Schnitz it didn't work. All dash lights were flashing and fuel pump wouldn't run. They told me no nig deal, 1 on 40 don't take and redoing it will be fine. It does work but how do I KNOW it is right?

Roman I asked you this on your zx1441r thread and never got an answer. Were all the ECUs you tested the same part# and the correct one for the bike? If not could this have anything to do with the results being all over the board? I'd love to have you check mine, how long would you need it for?

As a side note Ivan has said he can return a bricked ECU back to stock for $75.

* Last updated by: toledoUPSguy on 6/1/2015 @ 2:45 PM *

---

As a side note Ivan has said he can return a bricked ECU back to stock for $75.

Every last one a success, Ivan? Bring them on?

---

The man said for Romes to send every ECU injured by Woolich interface.

I kinda pried out of him how he does it... and I completely understand why he guards it jealously.

BTW: he is a frigging HOOT to talk tech with on the phone. Had me in stitches.

* Last updated by: hagrid on 6/1/2015 @ 6:25 PM *

---

Romes to send every ECU injured by Woolich interface.

Software/hardware or Human Error is more not the Woolich. Say writing code has a formula and that sort of writing out the software Justin is handcuffed too, don't forget, either works or does not. And if the software was faulty, then mine would be a brick. I've flashed it a number of times, so show me the glitch [if] there is 'interface injury' [was that the hoot?] something happens to the same old ECU.

---

I only know what he told me: the tools on his bench can un-brick a Woolly'd ECU. And it has nothing to do with the #s the tuner tried to stuff in there otherwise you could just as easily flash it back with the original bin file.

---

Schnitz it didn't work. All dash lights were flashing and fuel pump wouldn't run. They told me no nig deal, 1 on 40 don't take and redoing it will be fine. It does work but how do I KNOW it is right? Roman I asked you this on your zx1441r thread and never got an answer.

Sorry, I walked away for a bit. Had to.

ToledoUPSguy how's your idle ? Smooth as it was ? Did the bike sound different in any way after the flashed ECU was reinstalled ? If your gut tells you somethings not right. I would go with your gut. I would love to test it.

As a side note Ivan has said he can return a bricked ECU back to stock for $75.

The man said for Romes to send every ECU injured by Woolich interface.
I kinda pried out of him how he does it... and I completely understand why he guards it jealously.
BTW: he is a frigging HOOT to talk tech with on the phone. Had me in stitches.

The second those words hit the screen in that thread I was licking stamps lol. My hopes were high. Ivan and his software partner gave the ECU's a honest try to fix,,,,,,, Sadly without success.

Hagrid you are correct Ivan is Hoot. Love talking to him.

I've flashed it a number of times, so show me the glitch [if] there is 'interface injury' [was that the hoot?] something happens to the same old ECU.

Is it a 0714 ?

Hub here is one to keep you scratching the ole noodle.

Story

There is ZX14 owner in Texas. This gentleman is At the point of selling the bike he is so pissed with ECU issues he has had after flashes. In his desperation the man kept spending more and more money based on sales pitches. UGH !

The man called me for Help needing someone to bounce idea's off of knowing full well I won't lie. Nor will I ever try and sell him something to further compound his issues.

So the testing began.

The very first thing I wanted to say to the man was buy a New ECU, Flash didn't take your ECU is Fucked. But, Knowing full well the cost of these ECU's we must go through the motions in testing. Many phone calls later that exact conclusion was reached. Runs Great But ,,,,,

Ok, Skipping forward. One of the other issue he was having Was Gearing. As some of you may know the 14R does Not like gearing changes. This had the For Sale sign coming out. Even with a new ECU we could Not Guarantee the ZX14 would Not stutter with gear changes.

This was the final straw, deal breaker for his 14R. The man was going back to Busa. This bike lives at the Drag strip slammed 14inch over arm 16/49 gearing etc. Not being able to gear it was Not acceptable.

From here what to try ? No one has nailed down a Fix inside the ECU for those of us who play with gearing.

From here I went on to explain my results from my own testing. Which were, the stutter would not happen after sprocket changes "On My Bike" with Gear Lock into sixth. So in theory, a TRE 08 should solve our issue until a proper fix is found.

I say in theory because winter came and went and I did not finish testing with my own Milk Crate full of sprockets. By spring BST wheels were installed on my bike and as you know Stock sprockets don't fit. To Expensive to buy for testing. So I could not confirm 100% this is a fix.

Some others are reporting similar results results but I'm not so sure. Does it work for some, the answer is yes. Will this work for all ECU's. My money is on No.

So Why is it one ECU has this Gearing issue and another of the Exact same serial # does not ? If I order new from Kawi I give no other info ? Something is a Miss. My point is, inside these ECU's there are differences we can't see. None of us Can. With that being said how can one flash fit all ECU's. The answer is it Can't. So we Roll the Dice.

With that being said it is my opinion that there is only two kinds of people in this flash game. The ones who have had trouble and the ones that are about to. Anyone telling you different is ,,,,,,

To make a long story short we have a Happy Ending. Few days ago 2012 ECU was purchased for this mans 2013. Bike now has Zero stutter running 16/49 Gearing.

So how ?

Say writing code has a formula and that sort of writing out the software Justin is handcuffed too, don't forget, either works or does not. And if the software was faulty, then mine would be a brick. I've flashed it a number of times, so show me the glitch [if] there is 'interface injury' [was that the hoot?] something happens to the same old ECU.

Hub with my own ECU I have run Busa #'s in all files. I have been deliberately trying to kill my own ECU and I can Not. Believe me I have tried everything. Theory is if I know how to break it I will know how to fix it. Or at least how to advise others of what not to do.

There are differences inside those ECU's. I currently don't believe any software writer has bought all the serial #'s ECU's that are available for our bikes. What I do believe the public is testing as we speak. Some are having trouble and left with no choice but to spend their way out. There online silence does not tell the full story.

Ivan and his software partner gave the ECU's a honest try to fix,,,,,,, Sadly without success.

Only 2 basic physical moves in that box. Only one move starts it. There is the one fundamental move in [binary] mantra. WATT is it?

Alex, I'll take ___________ fill in the blank for 200 dollars.

---

Schnitz it didn't work. All dash lights were flashing and fuel pump wouldn't run. They told me no nig deal, 1 on 40 don't take and redoing it will be fine. It does work but how do I KNOW it is right? Roman I asked you this on your zx1441r thread and never got an answer.

Sorry, I walked away for a bit. Had to.

ToledoUPSguy how's your idle ? Smooth as it was ? Did the bike sound different in any way after the flashed ECU was reinstalled ? If your gut tells you somethings not right. I would go with your gut. I would love to test it.

As a side note Ivan has said he can return a bricked ECU back to stock for $75.

The man said for Romes to send every ECU injured by Woolich interface.
I kinda pried out of him how he does it... and I completely understand why he guards it jealously.
BTW: he is a frigging HOOT to talk tech with on the phone. Had me in stitches.

The second those words hit the screen in that thread I was licking stamps lol. My hopes were high. Ivan and his software partner gave the ECU's a honest try to fix,,,,,,, Sadly without success.

Hagrid you are correct Ivan is Hoot. Love talking to him.

I've flashed it a number of times, so show me the glitch [if] there is 'interface injury' [was that the hoot?] something happens to the same old ECU.

Is it a 0714 ?

Hub here is one to keep you scratching the ole noodle.

Story

There is ZX14 owner in Texas. This gentleman is At the point of selling the bike he is so pissed with ECU issues he has had after flashes. In his desperation the man kept spending more and more money based on sales pitches. UGH !

The man called me for Help needing someone to bounce idea's off of knowing full well I won't lie. Nor will I ever try and sell him something to further compound his issues.

So the testing began.

The very first thing I wanted to say to the man was buy a New ECU, Flash didn't take your ECU is Fucked. But, Knowing full well the cost of these ECU's we must go through the motions in testing. Many phone calls later that exact conclusion was reached. Runs Great But ,,,,,

Ok, Skipping forward. One of the other issue he was having Was Gearing. As some of you may know the 14R does Not like gearing changes. This had the For Sale sign coming out. Even with a new ECU we could Not Guarantee the ZX14 would Not stutter with gear changes.

This was the final straw, deal breaker for his 14R. The man was going back to Busa. This bike lives at the Drag strip slammed 14inch over arm 16/49 gearing etc. Not being able to gear it was Not acceptable.

From here what to try ? No one has nailed down a Fix inside the ECU for those of us who play with gearing.

From here I went on to explain my results from my own testing. Which were, the stutter would not happen after sprocket changes "On My Bike" with Gear Lock into sixth. So in theory, a TRE 08 should solve our issue until a proper fix is found.

I say in theory because winter came and went and I did not finish testing with my own Milk Crate full of sprockets. By spring BST wheels were installed on my bike and as you know Stock sprockets don't fit. To Expensive to buy for testing. So I could not confirm 100% this is a fix.

Some others are reporting similar results results but I'm not so sure. Does it work for some, the answer is yes. Will this work for all ECU's. My money is on No.

So Why is it one ECU has this Gearing issue and another of the Exact same serial # does not ? If I order new from Kawi I give no other info ? Something is a Miss. My point is, inside these ECU's there are differences we can't see. None of us Can. With that being said how can one flash fit all ECU's. The answer is it Can't. So we Roll the Dice.

With that being said it is my opinion that there is only two kinds of people in this flash game. The ones who have had trouble and the ones that are about to. Anyone telling you different is ,,,,,,

To make a long story short we have a Happy Ending. Few days ago 2012 ECU was purchased for this mans 2013. Bike now has Zero stutter running 16/49 Gearing.

So how ?

Say writing code has a formula and that sort of writing out the software Justin is handcuffed too, don't forget, either works or does not. And if the software was faulty, then mine would be a brick. I've flashed it a number of times, so show me the glitch [if] there is 'interface injury' [was that the hoot?] something happens to the same old ECU.

Hub with my own ECU I have run Busa #'s in all files. I have been deliberately trying to kill my own ECU and I can Not. Believe me I have tried everything. Theory is if I know how to break it I will know how to fix it. Or at least how to advise others of what not to do.

There are differences inside those ECU's. I currently don't believe any software writer has bought all the serial #'s ECU's that are available for our bikes. What I do believe is that the public is testing as we speak. Some are having trouble and left with no choice but to spend their way out. There online silence does not tell the full story.

I'll throw this out there as a question. What are the manufacturing dates on the ECU's? Are they the same???
Even though they have the same part number they may have been programmed at different times and plants. The ECU's are most likely programmed in batches depending on build requirements from manufacturer. They may have minor modifications in said build date programming that may have changed what is actually programed into the ECU???? IDK.?????

---

(Maybe?) I doubt this would affect anything, but since the ECU is effectively a computer, the parts inside may be made by different vendors, so long as they meet the specs required. If this is the case, different parts may require different drivers? This happens with pc's all the time, whether its the sound card or the graphics card.

---