Another note on running 87 or 89 octane gas is that your mileage will probably be less as you are burning more gas faster. I have ran 89 in the cooler months and if racing, but in hotter months I stay with the 91 or higher. Long rides have no issues but in hotter months riding in stop and go traffic and around town you can get the pinging or knock.

I've tried running her on 88 and 89. I have also tried 92 and 94. I like how she runs on 94! Only one pump up here offers this - Petro Canada. I find she is a bullet on the 94. Like black suggests above, temperatures and touring vrs blazing factor in. So far I am rocking 94 and loving it!
Shiny Sides Up Boyz!
W

If you are one number off messing with any cell number, a 4th column has to be within 1 number is one of many formulas. When X gazinta Y, Z has leftovers: we call the subtraction as the difference is that 4th variable.

--------------------------Difference
x 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 --100 - 99
.1 ------------------------99 - 98
.2 ------------------===---98 - 97
.3 -------------------===--97 - 96
And so on down is in decimal until you hit
.9
1.0

So as shit gazinta shit finding the missing next cell number, the difference better compute within said [diff] column. See how the difference in 1 number is that gap between 100 and 99? For argument sake you changed a cell to 302, not 301, see how ROM 'fetched,' found 1 number out of range is the compute, right? See how that + would be to patch it up or disable it? The - would have to be sent as a poor number and limp in a minus signal, yes? The calc does not compute. A step could no longer 'execute' the next step = Downed ECU.

'Fetch' can only look for a good computed number no matter in decimal or binary. But the difference column has to compute [all even up] is that step after step so the 1's and 0's can walk. Just like ohm's wheel with those 4 variables. Volts-amps-resistance is not to leave out watts. When things gazinta things, I am lost. Concept wise I get it is to lay it out in the abstract.

What puzzles me is your only move is what is on the map pages. You can't change the processors numbers. Those are fixed in ROM. It's a game of 'fetch and execute.' You can only tell something to do this in a certain parameter. The 3-D map may show where she needs some cleanup, I have no clue what the mapping colors are on the pasted maps? But isn't color or studying the 3-D map is your out to start the bike back up?

That's basically the problem, no start, right? No codes, right?

* Last updated by: Hub on 11/26/2013 @ 7:56 PM *

Could it be possible...as simple as this sounds...to install a good running ECU...it doesn't have to be for that model...I know...I ran a 2012 non abs in my 2013ABS...it worked....but the abs did not activate...otherwise,it was fine.If you could get the ROM reset with a good ECU coding(one off another 2012 or 2013)...then perhaps reinstall the one that 'isn't letting the bike start'...you think maybe it would reset everything back to a runable condition?Just a thought....it might be as simple as a ROM reset or something.Once she's running...then the codes would line up....maybe?If it has a 'tunable' ECU programming...like if a sensor or something fails...and it automatically readjusts stuff to keep her running...maybe it would do this for the Mapping in the ECU.Worth a try anyway...just to see.Certainly wouldn't harm the good ECU any...that's already okay.It's 'adjusting' itself as you ride under various conditions,isn't it?Timing...things like that.Maybe you could get it to 'reprogram' the bad ECU file once she's running.Possibly it would disable the bad file and overwrite with the 'other' good ECU file?(into the ROM)IDK...it can override certain conditions when something isn't okay....

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/26/2013 @ 8:23 PM *

Just a thought....it might be as simple as a ROM reset or something.Once she's running...then the codes would line up....maybe?

I think the abstract to the concept goes something like this.

Computation is performed by lots of circuits that make up a term called, arithmetic logic unit (ALU). These functions cause data changes like add, subtract, compare, increment, decrement and probably more is all this in paraphrase. And without the data coming in, there is no operation happening to the numbers. For example, the ALU cannot perform any functions without data to operate on. If the ALU is to add two numbers, then each of the numbers must be put in the right place beforehand. (Does this sound like a table cell number to you?)

Think of the ALU as a blindfolded juggler. The juggler can do amazing tricks, but only after being handed objects by someone else. Being blindfolded, the juggler cannot find the objects unaided. The juggler is waiting to be handed objects. The ALU must wait for data to be place in certain places... Taken from 'intro to microprocessors.'

See how ROM is a set of programs waiting for the map numbers think? So if the map sends in the wrong [data] number for the juggler to hold? Are we on the same page, the juggler is the preset waiting for data flashed?

Romes and I are on the same page about the layering undoing. Those ECU pins [I/O] are the last gates OUT when there is nothing but a clock moving a gate of 1's and 0's one at a time. And data waves moving at the speed of light. So the ECU to me is not burned out or a change of gates were made in the hardware is the ROM.

ROM is locked to convert data to a bunch of 1's and 0's: to make a number do a job. Like Morse code is set in ROM think. Braille is set in ROM think. Now think of how the juggler being blind and can tumble a bunch of language with those bumps raised: think we understand what ROM is: I think is not corrupted being that preset? The map number or just the layer alone is that number stopping a gate?

See how backasswords I'm trying to figure out that whack of numbers placed on the cells? I'm trying to find how those numbers compute so I'm all square like an ohm's law that has to use numbers to get there too or it does not compute. 4bits is the base number. It's going to be so basic a formula, no? I'm trying to hack the puzzle from the inside.

Signed,

Euler's Numbers

I was thinking more like...if it sees a 'corrupt file'...and can't do anything with it without a base file(from a good ecu then it 'might' be stuck with not being able to make any changes as it would if,say,the timing was off...and the ecu corrected that.IDK if it can do that...it can go into limp mode as you know...using a preset set of values when things aren't right.Can it do that with an ECU swap to get the baseline numbers back in the string?And once it recognizes the 'good' values...uses them in preference of a corrupt file?I've no idea of course...but if it can 'remember the last good setting' as my 07 did when the timing was going all over the place...then maybe it can do this thing as well with the ECU and ROM?New bike...new electronics....might be more there than anyone thinks as yet?I guess my idea(s) are really wishful thinking...it can't rewrite it's stuff,right?(kinda like..."in favor of it's new matrix'....sci fi...I know...but it's quite sophisticated....

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/27/2013 @ 1:37 AM *

You know I find it so amusing that when Grn had his bike dyno'd after your flash C, and put up lack luster numbers in comparrison to your BIG 212 BS # I don't remember seeing you bash him C or elude to the fact that his bike isn't even making the power of a stock 14r - which is what you tried to do to me. Is it because he paid you for your flash C?? But you don't mind trying to make me look bad by insulting my number....., which coincidentally, you don't even know. I do have the Romans Flash in my bike, and am happy to tell all that I meet how great a mod it is for the bike too. Best mod I did ever for $250.00. All I know is today I'm getting in touch with Hindle, Brock, Muzzy and everyone else who makes a 4 into 1, and everyone else in the world who is of the knowledge that a 4 to 1 setup will always make more power than duals - and let them know that slip ons make more power than full systems. I'm going to remove mine and throw it up for sale in the classified and look for a nice set of slip ons. Then get a flash - atleast then I will know I'll be making 212 hp. Who knew??? Or is it simply the difference of driving across the street and going to a different dyno.... I don't know - you tell me....
And for the record - at Dukes of Cycle in Toronto my bike posted 202 hp on a 63% humidty day with an old dyno, with Akra header and Two brothers slip ons. After going to Champion Cycle in Toronto with a full Hindle 4 into 1, I pulled 190 baseline...... (WOW a 12hp difference - Imagine that) This was on a Dynojet 250i. Funny thing is that after tuning the bike pulled 194 horse with a 13.4 afr ratio..... wonderful right? NOPE! On the way home I was blown away by the lackluster performance. As soon as I got home that new map went in the bin and my old tune of 190hp went back in the bike. Know why.......?? It was running 12.6 afr..... fat right - not so fat on ram air though......
I don't need a retort on my post "C" ...... let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that. I only wrote this post in response to your jabs at me.

The end.

* Last updated by: zx14beast on 11/27/2013 @ 8:09 AM *

Hmmm...well...I shouldn't be brought into this....but it is what it is.All parties agreed...mine was flashed right...it was(is)the altitude that's hampering bigger numbers...on BOTH the flashes.When I get down to sea level sometime...probably in the new year..I'm taking both ECU's with me...and just for the heck of it have em dynoed back to back.You can only go so far when you run out of 'tools'...I'm maxed out I think here right now.But she's flashed for 200.From both guys.I aint upset....she runs great for where she's at;)

Grn, I didn't mean this as a jab at you..., or to bring you into this.... please don't take it that way. It was just a matter of fact. I appologize.
To be completely honest - The bike only makes so much power - I hope we all max it out.

* Last updated by: zx14beast on 11/27/2013 @ 8:34 AM *

The best way to resolve this would be if you both submit your tuned bin files to the Woolich Racing MapShare. This would allow other users to subscribe to your MapShare and test it out for themselves. The MapShares can be rated by other users and I think this would show us who has the best tune out there. I am sure there would be people who would be willing and able to go back to back on the dyno with both MapShares on the same bike on the same dyno on the same day as this is really the only way to compare hp numbers?

We try to build a community around our products so that our customers can collectively get the most out of their bikes. The way some people are going on here is detrimental to that and really not in the spirit of what we are about...

The problem Rick is having with the 0715 ECU is not his fault. The bin file was submitted by another user and it had an invalid region in the code. We are working with Rick to resolve this issue.

I understand...it's cool.I didn't take it as a jab.Just thought I should clarify why mine had numbers like it does.I can definitely feel increases in HP when the atmosphere here is 'better'.

JK by submitting the flash to a bin file sharing etc, will that flash be made available to the public at no cost? By bin file sharing I assume the Woolich software-hardware must be purchased from you sir? I am wondering how this benefits the average hooligan (me) and how this affects the internet businessmen (Romes and C) and of course your own tuning business?

I am a proponent that you can evaluate the effectiveness of a flash from the saddle as we take it to the street and burn rubber! The dyno wars only give us a picture of what the bike is doing under set conditions. And that's it. It's not about who is faster. Flash, set up and pilot. Win the day. We are all I am sure bored of third and fourth gear roll on matches.

A dyno chart under the same conditions, same temp, sea level, same dyno can tell us a lot about where these bikes make power and perform. But really, on the street and comparing rider to rider? First man across the line hoists the lid and kisses the pretty lady.

* Last updated by: Wolfman on 11/27/2013 @ 9:38 AM *

JK I would have preferred you chime in earlier also, what sir took you so long?

We try to build a community around our products so that our customers can collectively get the most out of their bikes. The way some people are going on here is detrimental to that and really not in the spirit of what we are about...
The problem Rick is having with the 0715 ECU is not his fault. The bin file was submitted by another user and it had an invalid region in the code. We are working with Rick to resolve this issue.

For this, we thank you immensely.

I had a Romans Flash and I am grabbing a C flash. I am happy to stand in as a neutral evaluator.

That said I am no professional dragster or moto gp racer. I am a man with huge balls and a pension for destroying limits. My resume does not speak volumes, but I represent the common man!

* Last updated by: Wolfman on 11/27/2013 @ 9:43 AM *

The bin file was submitted by another user and it had an invalid region in the code. We are working with Rick to resolve this issue.

JKwool would be possible to contact the user that uploaded the bin file to see if he can upload a new clean bin file?

Blk you are a smart man!

Zx14 beast Thank you for the kind words. Not many have stepped forward to back me up here but I would like give A Big Special Thank You to The ones who Have. Cheers. Pay back coming Count on it.

Since This Thread Has My Name On It. I guess I must step in. I've tried really hard not to be that guy. But in this case what choice do I have ? Here we go.

Have you ever read bull Shit about a person and think you know who they are ? Well I just read a amazing amount of BS about myself and even I am beginning to believe it LOL. This comes from one of the biggest haters I have ever encountered in my life on line. Maybe I wronged him in some former life, don't know. Either way Karma will take care of the likes of him. Always does. As the saying goes "Give a man a rope long enough eventually he will hang himself with it"

I have tried very hard to keep my private life private but I think maybe it's time for me to tell you guys a little about who I really am. Then let YOU the reader decide, if I am the brainless Idiot you have just read about. I will use pics as my typing is not the best ,ssssllloooooowwwwwwww.

Romans Bio, Don't Worry I will Keep In Short.

First of all I'm from a little fishing Town in Nova Scotia. Enlarged Family Mainly All Military. Spent large part of my life in Halifax. Here is a few pics of my people.

About Me

As for me personally I am a Service Foreman tradesmen now. What that means is, I am an electrician, pipe fitter, Tin knocker, and welder. I specialize in Hydraulics, 10 Ton and over Electric Motor Rewinds, motor generator Rebuilds. 300lb Bearings replacements etc. Master at Hoisting and Rigging, including high rise cable replacements. I have performed all these tasks for a living for the last 28 years. Here is A few pics to put a name with a face. As we all know words mean Nothing.

Ok lets move into Where we are today. ZX-14s I have owned all Three Gens of this bike. I build these bikes to be the best they can be. I have loved the tuning side of it from the first back fire(Hub/Ivan erra)These guys hooked me whether they know it or not. Few pics

Ok, today In the tuning side of things Justin Woolich has made it on scene. This has opened our doors to the inside of the ECU. So how do we approach our first baby steps, it begins with a purchase. Then we study. Next we find our favorite tuners PC maps and start to data transfer their hard work into the ECU. Now, our noodles keep ticking, Why not out-smart the teacher and build our own Special Flash,,, You know the Best of the Best.

Ok what do we need for Tools ? We have the bike, we have the woolich, But No Dyno. Booo. A man can not make his own flash without tracking AFR. So what do we do ? First we must get a 02 sensor into our Exhaust. 2) Data Loggers for AFR to track our changes for positive or Negative. Now this will only let us do manual changes in fuel adjustments. Thats all. You know the math that you guys keep reading about? Or spend money on the Best electronics that the dyno tuners use. Lets face it, when was the last time you saw a tuner with pencil and paper LOL

The data loggers record 10 times a second and place the info into wideband 2 Auto Tune Software. The software gives us all the #'s Exactly as you see in the Dyno Room. Awesome Stuff. I buy nothing but the best because it Works. Computers are Brilliant. I Don't do the math. My Computers do. It's very Easy. Not Rocket Science as it seems above. Any of you can do it. I would love to teach you ALL but the haters on this site keep me from posting the Truth to make their own sales.

Now what power does this bike make.(this will be fun) Ok, make where ? 10,000 feet ? Sea level. Lots of bull shit here. Very hard to track. SAE Smoothing 5 would give us our most honest answer but not the best looking numbers. STD # you see minus 4 to 5% Remember we all have the same size cylinders which holds the same air and the same amount of fuel. Why does one bike make 190 SAE 5 another makes 212 STD ,,,,, Snake Oil.

If you watch here some guys made 199 hp drove across the street to a New Dyno and made 212. Awesome I want in. At no time did we see what the bike made before its first run, why ????

A full pipe won't give you that HP on this bike. So how does it happen? I think people start to believe whatever they want. That same bike on a state of the ART Dyno Jet 250I will be 190 to 195. Try and tell this man the truth and you will be bullied into beliving his own BS. Don't fall for the snake Oil boys. A fully pipped and flash zx14 that produces anything over 200 is a Wow, You got something special. Enjoy it , don't chase dyo numbers.

Next Ram Air, Dyno.

I have read that RAM air makes no diff what soever and your ECU adjusts your AFR to stay exactly the same.

Sorry boys that is False. If you run your bike lean you shorten it's life. This summer I made 3 extra hp on the DYNO compared Zxbeast bike. But how did I do it? Map switch to a Lean # was how, During my run, the dydo operator yelled out you going to melt a piston. My AFR was 13.8. Still safe but was it ??? if Ram Air played a Role what am I then ?

So I began data logging to prove. Answer I got was .5 to lean. So cool clean Air at 195 mph would have brought me to 13.8 + .5 = 14.3. if I had continued to run that map.(made by someone you all know and love).Yikes, what is exhaust gas temps at 14.3 ??? you guys, this info is for you all to think on your own. Do your own tests. If you must win the Dyno war I just told you how. Run it lean.

Fact is Kawi made this bike almost perfect just as it is. You guys can all run you full pipes and do nothing. She runs to lean in the bottom IMO but Stock is set up that way. Data logged 13.1 at 195 MPH. Test for yourself. Kawi even tells us ram in this bike makes power and they have already adjusted for it.

You guys, 75 Dollar Flash is more than fine.

250 dollars will get you a bit more every where.

400 will get you Don Guhl Dual Map flash. Best deal by far.

If you are going to spend more BUY woolich and I will teach you. Take you results to any Dyno that you Choose. But most importantly have fun.

C'blast you asked for this. I will put my lastest work against anything you got. I will lose 3 hp on the dyno compared to your flash, but I got you, by 13 bikes on the street at 190 mph.

ZX14beast kicked my ass with my own flash when I ran the dyno shoot out winner. Lets see what you got !

* Last updated by: Romans on 11/27/2013 @ 1:07 PM *

Well Romes...you don't need to defend yourself...I noticed something ....'odd'....you and Wolf could almost be brothersLOL!!!I swear a couple of those pics were of Wolf;)You and C both know how to flash....but...can you tuna fish?J/K...great job to both of ya...they're both most excellent mods;)

I'm not sure what you meant by..'altitude BS'....I'm up over 5K feet...I can't squeeze any more power out..except when the air density is thick and the temps are cool.She definitely responds in those conditions(and all others as well)...sea level's my goal...getting her down to sea level and riding.

I have my factory untouched ECU...I'm gonna get her dynoed with that in there come Spring....just for my own info.I should have done that first...but forgot to bring it....It'd be interesting to see what a stock 14R up here would be putting down.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/27/2013 @ 10:58 AM *

You and C both know how to flash....but...can you tuna fish

Rofl, Grn I started off tuning one point at a time. It took me Months to perfect as I paid no one to do it for me. Yes I know you gave C'Blast some of my early work so did Wolf. He has always threated to beat me over the head with it and does so at will. It was always ok. But yes I knew. I would give C'Blast my latest work to do his own street compares but He is just to evil a man. I'm sure he will get it eventually. For now I wanted you guys to put a Face to the name was all. Now you know me. I am More of your class clown. Not mindless idiot as portrayed. I have helped as many as I could and will continue to do so. All is ok. But C's remarks are meant to cut deep, and yes I feel every one of them

Sad part is, I would have sad nothing.

* Last updated by: Romans on 11/27/2013 @ 11:37 AM *

Wolf sent his ECU to Cblast who with Nells immediately erased all files. You are more than welcome to contact Nels or C. I asked C and Nels as gentlemen not to look into the flash (as you requested Romans) as I did not want to cross a line between you gentlemen with competing interests. Winter was coming and I needed to send it and I did not want to lose the loaner or not insure the loaner in case of loss. I have confirmed with both gentlemen that my request was honored and no details of the Romans Flash exchanged hands. Of this I am 100 percent certain! I can't speak for Green as I do not have information, sir. I am happy to seat pilot and write a comparo for the forum. One man is an Ontarian I respect the other is a man from Pacific North I respect. Impartial, immediate and may settle some questions. Let me know...
Wolf

* Last updated by: Wolfman on 11/27/2013 @ 11:47 AM *

Thanks for the complement your right Romes has my good looks!

It's a confirmation and respectful when someone reaches out to stand next to you and support you when someone attempts to smear you. Of this situation I can relate!
However, I will say the way forward is respectful, intelligent and intentional dialogue without references and subverted innuendo. This thread would be dynamite if both men worked together.

* Last updated by: Wolfman on 11/27/2013 @ 11:55 AM *

"Yes I know you gave C'Blast"...no Romes...I didn't.Totally unflashed ECU I sent him.I still have yours and will always keep it...unchanged as you flashed it....I said I wouldn't give yours to anyone else.....I didn't....I wouldn't.That one has the Ivan's and yours on it.No way am I getting rid of it...or sending it to anyone.I keep my word...;)

It's terribly hard to write up a comparo....someone is inevitably gonna feel upset with the outcomes.If we weren't all members here...it would be easy.If we didn't care about other's feelings...it would be easy.The real world isn't so simple.I have THREE flashes from the best.Each one has particular things about it that I really really like.They are not the same....similar...yes...but different.They all kick ass....and perform flawlessly.I would not hesitate one second to recommend either of you guys....both flashes perform awesome.Without any issues.It's not the end....you guys are gonna discover even MORE ways to fine tune these ECU's....today's flash is tomorrow's steppingstone...you both know yer shit....hands down.And I thank BOTH of you for flashing my widowmaker;)

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/27/2013 @ 12:26 PM *