blue; I'm not defending, or backing them, just posting other sites with "facts".

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2e5_1250532637

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=106002

* Last updated by: alg8er on 8/5/2010 @ 7:59 PM *

Okay....I'll take your and their word for it.HOWEVER.....can't exactly condone the marriage of a 16 year old.18...yeah.16,HHmmmmmmm.Wonder where Hamas got that 500 dollars a pop to give away though.Couldn't they better spend it on construction and necessities?...I can't really judge em...not in that respect.The whole deal over there is a shitstorm.Seems so easy for me over here to pass judgements on what "they" should be doing.It seems simple...the solutions.But getting the hatred of generations laid to rest is really the problem.No one can do that but them(Jews and Arabs).Very sad really.Things could be so much better and different IF.......I'm very glad I was born here...and live here.In spite of the past "mistakes"(if that's what they could be called)...this is still the greatest Nation on Earth,with the Greatest people on the planet.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 8/6/2010 @ 1:21 AM *

+1

Bar to open next to Mosque

One of the most brilliant pieces of provocations in recent years.

Greg Gutfield from Fox News' Red Eye announced today via his blog that he is actively speaking to investors and plans on opening a gay bar next to the controversial mosque being built near Ground Zero in New York. To make matters worse (better?) the bar will be specifically designed to cater to homosexuals of the Islamic faith. God, this is going to be an exciting block.
Here's Gutfield's entire post which he will expand upon during tonight's Red Eye:
"So, the Muslim investors championing the construction of the new mosque near Ground Zero claim it's all about strengthening the relationship between the Muslim and non-Muslim world.
As an American, I believe they have every right to build the mosque - after all, if they buy the land and they follow the law - who can stop them?
Which is, why, in the spirit of outreach, I've decided to do the same thing.
I'm announcing tonight, that I am planning to build and open the first gay bar that caters not only to the west, but also Islamic gay men. To best express my sincere desire for dialogue, the bar will be situated next to the mosque Park51, in an available commercial space.
This is not a joke. I've already spoken to a number of investors, who have pledged their support in this bipartisan bid for understanding and tolerance.
As you know, the Muslim faith doesn't look kindly upon homosexuality, which is why I'm building this bar. It is an effort to break down barriers and reduce deadly homophobia in the Islamic world.
The goal, however, is not simply to open a typical gay bar, but one friendly to men of Islamic faith. An entire floor, for example, will feature non-alcoholic drinks, since booze is forbidden by the faith. The bar will be open all day and night, to accommodate men who would rather keep their sexuality under wraps - but still want to dance.

Bottom line: I hope that the mosque owners will be as open to the bar, as I am to the new mosque. After all, the belief driving them to open up their center near Ground Zero, is no different than mine.

My place, however, will have better music."

Among the names suggested have been:

a.. Turban Cowboys
b.. Suspicious Packages
c.. Submission
d.. Outfidels
e.. Brokeback Mecca
f.. Très Sheik
g.. Infidelicious
h.. Shake your Shi'a
i.. The Camel's Hump
j.. Allah's Closet
k.. The Pink Crescent
l.. The Queeran
m.. JiHot!
n.. The Sphinx's Sphincter
o.. Ram-a-Dan
p.. Turbinatrix
q.. Lady Agha
r.. Al-Gay-Da
s.. Religion of Piece
t.. Allah Cock Bar
u.. Yassir, That's My Booty
v.. I-Slam
w.. Homohammed's
x.. The Ba'ath House
y.. House of Saudomy
z.. The Circle Turk
aa.. You Mecca Me Hot
ab.. The Lonesome Camel
ac.. Mecca and My Weena
ad.. We Put the Ass in Madrassa
ae.. Sandjobs
af.. Osama's Been Ridden
ag.. The Holy City of Me-Cum
ah.. I Dream of Weenie
ai.. Talibuns

Come on Hub. How can you resist this one. The Poo Box Pirates will be doing some heavy sword fighting in the Mosque lol. Now that is going to cause some Holy Shit.LMAO. Sorry boys but I couldn't help my self. What Next, aaahhhhh.

What about the constitution either you believe in it or you don't it just that simple really. But I guess its ok to overlook that little document when it comes to people that you don't like or you can exploit kind of like our four fathers did with the whole slave trade thing oh and the taking the property and liberty of 110,000 Japanese Americans during WWII(think War Relocation Camps),womens suffrage,the Jim Crow south etc. IMOP knowing when to question your government’s actions or pointing out failures and wrong doing makes you a patriot. Following blindly and ignoring what’s wrong is exactly the behavior that allowed the holocaust to happen. Do you guys know why that whack job in FL is allowed to burn the Quran in public and people are allowed to say God is joke and is simply an imaginary figure to help the weak? Because the constitution says they have the right to do so period end of story. There seems to be a group of people in this Country that think they don't have to play by the rules as long as they wrap themselves in an American flag and yell God bless America as if he has some preference towards Americans. So yeah I'm Baptist by birth an American and a former Combat Marine and if some comes to this country and attempts to take away the rights people to burn the Quran,the King James bible or stop the KKK from protesting my very existence I would gladly send them and 5000 bastards that look just like them to see whatever God they might believe in daily. Just as I would be more than willing to point the business end of a weapon at any American that attempted to take away my rights as an American.In fact if America lived up to the promise it put on paper we would n't have many of the problems we have now.

Which is, why, in the spirit of outreach, I've decided to do the same thing.
I'm announcing tonight, that I am planning to build and open the first gay bar that caters not only to the west, but also Islamic gay men. To best express my sincere desire for dialogue, the bar will be situated next to the mosque Park51,

If you are an America I say go for it man it’s your right to do even though it’s not the right thing to do and you know it. As long as you allow people to worship when and wherever they like and live in dignity.

* Last updated by: willidx4 on 9/8/2010 @ 5:26 PM *

Okay....I'll take your and their word for it.HOWEVER.....can't exactly condone the marriage of a 16 year old.18...yeah.16,HHmmmmmmm.Wonder where Hamas got that 500 dollars a pop to give away though.Couldn't they better spend it on construction and necessities?...I can't really judge em...not in that respect.The whole deal over there is a shitstorm.Seems so easy for me over here to pass judgements on what "they" should be doing.It seems simple...the solutions.But getting the hatred of generations laid to rest is really the problem.

can't exactly condone the marriage of a 16 year old.18...yeah.16

you do know not to long ago that was a common pratice in America

Wonder where Hamas got that 500 dollars a pop to give away though.Couldn't they better spend it on construction and necessities?...

take a long hard look at the money we spent on two unjust wars we could have fixed our own infustrature and put millons to work for the money we spent chasing ghost. Not defending Hamas just pointing out the facts.

[

But getting the hatred of generations laid to rest is really the problem

America is not in any position to tell other people how to get along race and religious relations in this country are a joke. Trust me Blue I love America but we don't have a corner stone on justice and righteousness simply because we are Americans

* Last updated by: willidx4 on 9/8/2010 @ 5:43 PM *

I'll just say that the past can't be changed.No matter how hard one goes back to "look what happened"....it cannot be reversed.Saying it "should have been" is pointless.It IS or it ISN'T a certain way.The ONLY thing that can be changed....is the NOW.People just don't get it.They think they HAVE to act a certain way,or think a certain way,or speak a certain way "because".Because of what?Because they choose to do it...that's why.I can hate,or I can Love.It's completely up TO ME.It doesn't matter what happened ten minutes ago...or ten years ago.If I'm wanting my thoughts,actions, or ideas to change...I HAVE TO DO IT...NOT Joe blow FIRST.How bad DO I want change?My actions will prove exactly how bad I want it.Nothing can stop me from doing what I choose EXCEPT ME.Granted...if I want to fly a jet plane,I have to take the steps to learn how to do it.Same with anything else.It doesn't take the Shites stopping their hatred to have the Sunnis stop hating.It ONLY takes the Sunnis to stop hating.The Shites may or may not ever change.But the Sunnis can(or whatever else a person decides he wants different).That was just an example.But I know we all get the picture."Everyone" wants to wait till "the other guy"(country,race,religion)changes to make an effort.I say....Change within NOW,regardless of what's happening around.People just may be surprised how doing that will cause change to occur in others.It's easier to just say"when they do,I will".Piss poor excuse IMO."I'm not gonna think forgiveness UNTIL "they" pay for what they did.You'll be waiting the rest of your life.Throwing away opportunities to grow up and be real.I have opportunities every day to look at my attitudes about life.And my thinking about things.I see a lot of hatred.I also see hatred within myself in certain areas.It's not pleasant to realize I'm actually thinking that way...but I've got to call it as it is if I want to get rid of it.And it isn't up to Jonny or Mary or Billy to do anything different BEFORE I decide I want something different.This however is on a personal level...towards other people.The world situation now is vastly more volatile than it was 20 years ago.Unfortunately,the need for powerful(nuclear) weapons is a necessity in this day and age.Peace through Strength is now the only real deterrent to all out destruction.This country is still the leader in kindness,giving,helping,trying to be fair,and openminded with regard to personal rights.And playing fair as well.This country is unique and it's core values are unique.There is no other country or people on earth that have given so much,shared so much,and tried to help so much as the American people....and that includes Jews.Muslims.Chinese,Japanese...you name it...all here have contributed to this grand "experiment".NOW.Going on 24/7.Want change?Stop blaming someone else.There's your change.Do the right thing yourself(myself)...that's where it begins.

I've got nuthin against Blacks,Whites,Japanese,Chinese...Muslims,Jews...none.I feel terrible that a handful of impressionate young promising Muslims were brainwashed into killing all the innocent people they did on 9/11.It created a HUGE gulf between the West and the Middle East.I feel terrible that the United States President(Truman) felt that dropping two nuclear weapons on the innocent people that were killed was the only way to achieve peace.Could it have been different?It could have...but it wasn't.So if continuing the string of hatred against the US by proclaiming WAR on America is the only way that SOME people or countries feel will be the answer to "the problem"...so be it.I honestly hope that our Government won't back up in protecting our freedoms and those who desire freedom.I doubt if the persecuted in Nazi Germany,or Poland,or France,or England wish destruction to America.Or any other freedom seeking peoples.Those that would terrorize and keep their populations weak through fascism and fear....they're the ones who desire our demise.Whether we agree,or like it or not,we are the lighthouse to this world.I see way more good in people here than I do bad.If someone wants to believe that "America is arrogant"....they're out of touch with reality IMO.Proud to be American....absolutely!Humble enough to reach to others...absolutely.Putting others first?I see it all the time.24/7...day in day out.This IS the greatest country on Earth.Despite her "failings"...she's done a lot more good for the world than ANY of the others out there combined.

America's "goal" in Afghanistan,and Iraq,is NOT to destroy MUSLIMS(they're doing a fine job of that without anyone's help).It's to cut the head off of the snake...we all know who.The 9/11 ers.THAT's what this is all about.NOT killing a people.In all truth...we've been a hell of a lot more restrained in our pursuit and prosecution of those groups than any other country thats dealt with em.That could be part of the problem,IDK.We are willing to shed blood with our own people to improve the lives of those a world away....and for what?So they may one day share the dream among themselves.Is that so bad?I don't think so.The widows of Iraq's households don't think so.The widowers of the Afghanistani women who got their heads blown off for ...what was it?Some archaic "law" "given" by some rapist named Mohammed?They don't think the US is so terrible when justice gets meted out through a hellfire nicely placed into a terrorist's campsite.It's too bad it's the way it is...but,doing nothing means what....wanna see your daughter or wife or mum get shot in front of you because they're "American"?How bout your neighbors and friends...want to see their heads roll because they're Americans?That's what it would be,and WILL be if the Islamic "extremists"(and just WHO are they anyway?)have their way.Sorry...anyone can call me a bigot or racist if they want regarding this deal.But I know how I feel.This aint about "Muslims,or Blacks, or anything else.This is about the survival of America....whether the terrorists like it or not.

I say here,now,if these countries hate us so much...then why are they scared to death that we're leaving "so soon"?Thought they decried us plenty and wanted us OUT?You see em burnin American flags don't ya?Chanting "death to America"

See any American people goin out and chantin "death to Iran"...or "death to Yemen"...or anything else like that.I don't...except that fool that wants to publicly burn the Quran.Thoughtless prick wants to get famous.That's MY feelings on that.

HOW can we make a difference in people's daily lives IF when we go in to rebuild a Water Station...the jerks go in and blow it up?Same with all the other works we've tried to do.So it's American technology and such....okay.LEARN to do it themselves with our help.THAT's what we're trying to achieve.They just refuse to let it happen...at the loss of their own standard of living.Okay...so we're gonna get blamed that because of us,they can't get it together.Make sense?I didn't buy it either.And the world doesn't buy it.THAT's the problem.Yet it's OUR fault the "muslim" world is where it's at....because of us."conquerors" that we are ya know.

I'll say this and then shut up.I LOVE this country.I LOVE the things this country has stood for.I LOVE those willing to give their all for the safety of us and safety of others seeking our way of life here.I see the changes that have occurred over the last 50 years in this country to make her even better than she was.The recognitions of prejudices.The admittance of mistakes.The willingness of the American people to get past old ideas.There are many here that would seek to stay locked in the past and condemn those who wish to reach higher.I'm not one of them.Nor are Millions of fellow Americans.This country is great because of the conscience that exists in our people.A conscience to do the right thing and play fair.I cannot say that about our present Administration...though it has beguiled many with it's fair words and speech.I will ALWAYS remember that this country(to me) is a gift from God....and a strength to the world.Despite her struggles within,she's still the Greatest Place on Earth to be alive.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 9/9/2010 @ 1:16 AM *

kind of like our four fathers did

Which four?

Btw, former devil doc here and you, willid, are right on track, imho. We, as Americans, can't possibly expect to judge others until we have a look in the mirror and make sure we, ourselves, are following our own guidelines/Constitution. They have the right to open the Mosque as much as we have the right to protest it. It's part of what makes our country what it is - as a contributing factor, of course. Do I think it should be a law not to be able to burn any country's (least of all our own) flag? Yes. Do I think we should allow free speech, but then have the testicular fortitude to hold those same individuals accountable for insulting/slandering others? Absolutely. Seems like, just about at every corner, I'm seeing our rights as Americans stripped from us - all the while seeing our balls shrink more and more into our stomachs and come out our a$$holes because no one in Congress has the cajones to do what's right by the very Americans they represent.

Ex. "Oh, it offends you? Well, ok, sorry, we'll go about it a different way". Sick and tired of hearing that, in so many words.

* Last updated by: loadedmind on 9/9/2010 @ 7:24 AM *

I'll say this and then shut up.I LOVE this country.I LOVE the things this country has stood for.I LOVE those willing to give their all for the safety of us and safety of others seeking our way of life here.I see the changes that have occurred over the last 50 years in this country to make her even better than she was.The recognitions of prejudices.The admittance of mistakes.The willingness of the American people to get past old ideas.There are many here that would seek to stay locked in the past and condemn those who wish to reach higher.I'm not one of them.Nor are Millions of fellow Americans.This country is great because of the conscience that exists in our people.A conscience to do the right thing and play fair.I cannot say that about our present Administration...though it has beguiled many with it's fair words and speech.I will ALWAYS remember that this country(to me) is a gift from God....and a strength to the world.Despite her struggles within,she's still the Greatest Place on Earth to be alive.

I agree 100% with you and that’s why it’s so important that we honor the Americans that gave their lives to ensure the constitution followed and applied to all Americans and that includes Muslims

Yes...that includes Muslims.Nobody here(in this country that I've heard of anyway)has said we should not accept Muslims(except those that live by stereotyping).However...look what they're doing RIGHT NOW in Pakistan...did you see it?"Death to the Christians"...."Down with America"...along with their burning of the American flag.I'm not seein anything like that here regarding our relationship with Muslims.And as for that guy at the Dove Center....just look how many have condemned his proposed actions...from the White House all the way down to the grass roots.He doesn't in any way represent MY values...or the values of Miliions of Americans.AND....Lots of Americans(including the Gov't)have spoken AGAINST this deal outright...in the open....for the world to see.How bout those "kill christians" folks?Anyone over there or around the world in the Muslim nation speaking out against that?NOT.So who really IS the tolerant side?Again(and again,and again)America leads the way in hope and acceptance of others.They're killing at this moment Christians,Jews,non-Muslims right and left.And we STILL accept them here...knowing they pose a grave threat to the future of our "ungodly" society.Real or imagined?It was was real enough when they beheaded Nick Berg.And the others.And ALL Americans if they could get away with it.They're gettin a hell of a pass around the world for their deeds,cloaked in "Allah".They've murdered more throughout history than the United States EVER could approach.That's a fact...not some "story" laced with bigotry.How bout them....when are THEY gonna speak out about the atrocities carried out by THEIR beliefs.Speak out publicly in condemnation of their behavior.They say they're gonna do that with the building of this Mosque.What are they waiting for.Speak up NOW.Start the healing NOW.Assure the wary American public that their motives are on the level.NOW.They want acceptance...okay....start accepting by being sensitive to the American Families and others here.Reach out.Does anyone see this happening?I've certainly not seen anything on the tube that would even show a glimmer of possible Muslim/American relations building.It's been rounds of "finger pointing" by the Muslim Groups saying"Americans don't like Muslims".Can you imagine us going over to say,Pakistan,and burning a Muslim symbol?Guess what would occur next?How bout wearing some crosses and walking the streets over in that part of the world.Think "they" would be lovey dovey and accepting?And while "they" condemn the West(America in particular)...just what the hell have "they" contributed to the world at large since their inception?Peace?Foreign aid?Breakthroughs in technology,Science?Health?It's so much easier to play the victim than stand up and admit the truth about what's happening,and has happened.And who is responsible.

Look at Saddam.Guy hoarded billions while his people suffered under his reign.Now what do they say?"America did this to us".Last time I checked...the roadside bombs and truck bombs were going off in MUSLIM neighborhoods.So we step in and stop the immediate murdering of the Iraqi population under Saddam...yes....and then what.They get a "clean slate" to begin anew.What do they do with it?Start takin revenge on their brothers and sisters.And WE get the blame.Sound about right.WE lose,no matter what.Thank God Bush stepped in with the troop increase(and I'm NOT glorifying Bush)...thank God civil war was averted because of what?Because WE as Americans want to see them live and prosper.Not fall and perish.Yet we are the "bad" power.Am I the only one seeing this deal?I don't think so. This struggle is about finding,confronting,and vaporizing the enemies of the US that would actively seek our demise through terrorist acts-Muslim or NON-Muslim.THAT's what's going on here.It aint about "hating" a race of people.

Unfortunately,or fortunately depending on how you see it,they have refused to address several of their most basic tenants of Islam.They have painted themselves into a corner they cannot get out of.How can they claim "co'existence(peaceful assuming)with the "west"(Americans..."infidels") if their "Holy" book directs them to kill,enslave,or otherwise demean and humiliate their "enemies"(us).How can they actually expect anyone to trust what they proclaim as "peaceful" when their "holy" book directs them to Hate inwardly those that are NOT MUSLIM,yet outwardly present themselves as "friends"(setting up their "victims" for future destruction).I mean...c'mon.Would YOU trust a Muslim with your life(or your family's lives) knowing that this is how they are SUPPOSED to be behaving in order to be accepted by Allah?And if they are anything different than those teachings...they fall into the category of "apostate"...basically...up the spiritual creek without a paddle.Have any of the top Imams addressed THIS?HHHmmmmm.I mean,really,what would they say?It's a mixed up religion....designed to please men.That's it.Full of hatred.Full of inflicting pain on others.That's yer Mohammed for ya.Nice guy.Prophet of God...ya....If I start hearin these things bein addressed openly and with force by the Muslim Nations...then ya...I've no problem befriending a "Muslim".They come over here,we accept em,then they start decrying the US for some resistance to a Mosque...strategically placed as a symbol of Islamic Victory at the Blast Site.Nice.You'd think if they REALLY wanted to be a part of American values and our freedoms they'd look at this deal and straight out say..."ya Know...we NEED to be caring towards the victims of this horrible act(s)...we've decided to abandon this thing and see how we can reach out to the American people who have tried so hard to be unbiased by all of this"...Think that's a solution?I do.That would go alot farther in A LOT of American's eyes (Muslims included)than all the fair words of "Trust us...we wouldn't lie to you,(you dirty,ungodly and needing destroying) Americans"...

* Last updated by: blue07 on 9/9/2010 @ 12:48 PM *

Yes...that includes Muslims.Nobody here(in this country that I've heard of anyway)has said we should not accept Muslims(except those that live by stereotyping).However...look what they're doing RIGHT NOW in Pakistan...did you see it?"Death to the Christians"...."Down with America"...along with their burning of the American flag.I'm not seein anything like that here regarding our relationship with Muslims

I agree those extremist are wrong

).I mean...c'mon.Would YOU trust a Muslim with your life(or your family's lives) knowing that this is how they are SUPPOSED to be behaving in order to be accepted by Allah?And if they are anything different than those teachings...they fall into the category of "apostate"...basically...up the spiritual creek without a paddle.Have any of the top Imams addressed THIS?HHHmmmmm.

No I would not if this was true of all Muslims but its not. Guess what I'm not afraid of Christians because Tim McVeigh blew up the Oklahoma federal building.

(except those that live by stereotyping).

They've murdered more throughout history than the United States EVER could approach.That's a fact...not some "story" laced with bigotry.How bout them....when are THEY gonna speak out about the atrocities carried out by THEIR beliefs.Speak out publicly in condemnation of their behavior. You do know America is mostly Christian yet we are the biggest proverys of violets in the world right now.I not defending anyone just pointing out the facts.

That’s simply not true think slave trade and yes this was done by my fellow Christians. Blue if you took the time to get to know some Muslims you would know how much they dislike extremist. .

They come over here,we accept em,then they start decrying the US for some resistance to a Mosque...strategically placed as a symbol of Islamic Victory at the Blast Site.Nice.You'd think if they REALLY wanted to be a part of American values and our freedoms they'd look at this deal and straight out say..."ya Know...we NEED to be caring towards the victims of this horrible act(s)...we've decided to abandon this thing and see how we can reach out to the American people who have tried so hard to be unbiased by all of this"...Think that's a solution?

You do know there is a Mosque closer to the site than the one that is being built and in fact it was around before the towers were built. You are aware that many Muslims also lost their lives when the towers were attacked by extremist Muslims. You do know extremist Muslims hate other Muslims who are not extremist even more than they dislike Christians. Blue I'm not hear to poke holes in your feelings but I would encourage you as a Christian to use you religion to guide your thought process versus your feelings.If more Chrisians did this the world we be a better place.

* Last updated by: willidx4 on 9/9/2010 @ 2:56 PM *

Well...personally...I wouldn't agree that McVeigh was ANY kind of Christian.The rule book for Christians is clear"If you Love me,keep my commandments...and yet,another commandment do I give unto you,that you Love your neighbor as yourself"That doesn't say"IF your neighbor is a Christian,love them"that means ANY neighbor."Love your enemies,do good to those who despitefully use you and persecute you for MY sake.In so doing you are FULFILLING the commandment of GOD"...okay.McVeigh fall into that category?He wasn't any Christian.And I'm not stereotyping Muslims.Their Quran is clear about what they are supposed to do and think....about those who are NON-Muslim.I didn't make this up.Fine...okay...so they live here...they're "friendly" and gracious.Now....meet them over in Iran.Or Iraq,or...you name it.See what happens when they are with those that they live with..you know,the neighborhood guys and such.Bigotry doesn't have a color,or face.Waliking through a Marketplace over there...where they're selling stuff to "foreigners" and making bucks is one thing.Okay.Naturally they aren't gonna kill the goose that lays the golden egg.But try walkin down those same back streets at midnight.Tell me they don't show their true feelings about non-muslims(not unlike a white guy walking through Harlem alone at midnite,or a black guy doing the same in Okenofo USA...or a Japanese,or a...you can pick your race here...bigotry knows no boundaries).I know there are good and bad in every human situation.I'm not sayin they all are American Haters.But how do they resolve their feelings about "True Islam",and acceptance of "the American Infidels".It can't happen in true Islamic faith.So what's the result?In Iraq,they murder those who have befriended the US.Same in Afghanistan....and other countries over there.This is what they are taught to feel...hatred against "infidels"...not compassion and caring and praying for.This my friend is bigotry full on.Do the Black Panthers embrace White people?I don't think so.Rev Sharpton ever say "stop hating the White people"...how about Farrakhan....any love there?Jesse Jackson...ever heard him say"Hey my people...you can'y love God and Hate White people".I've never heard it.Yet all the time,the True Christians embrace and care about ALL races and people.Without regard to skin color or anything else.Just recently Christian Workers were murdered over there somewhere by "extremists" for "helping" the local population have some semblance of health care....something their own people(brothers and sisters)didn't find important enough to address."It is the will of Allah"??????Really?How is that exactly.And I'm in complete agreement about the Muslim on Muslim thing.I think it's terrible that there own Imams are telling them to "kill your 'brothers' who are not full on radical.They can't really get away with it here...but they're happily doing it elsewhere.You can bet they have a hit list of future jobs lined up....you know they did in Iraq.Just waiting for the US to remove the one power that was keeping them in check(so to speak).Ya...they were happy to see Saddam go....

"You do know America is mostly Christian yet we are the biggest proverys of violets in the world right now.I not defending anyone just pointing out the facts"...this I did not say.

And no,I do not believe America is "mostly Christian"...I do however think that most Americans follow the "golden rule" to some extent in their lives...certainly not all.Certainly not enough.

I'm gonna say this....I speak from personal experience here...not ideas.I've been in several long term situations of "getting along" with "other" races.I KNOW what hatred does among people.I've had it directed towards me.I lived through it.It wasn't fun.Pretty.Or nice.It wasn't something I'd want anyone else to go through.But I made it,because of God.THAT's the ONLY way I made it.Do I hate those races for acting towards me the way they did?Not at all.I understand the mob mentality,and what it really is.There were some among "those people" that were cool.Not in agreement with what the others were trying to be.Was it racism...yes...some of it.But most of it was just plain old anger and blind hatred.Unhappiness with themselves,and refusal to make things different for themselves.If I wanted an excuse to hate...I found PLENTY of opportunities to embrace that...IF I wanted to.But I didn't...and don't.If I could have the thoughts and ideas and beliefs that I do,I don't see why others who have the same abilities and opportunities for seeing things differently can't.That's what I meant by saying...all we really have is the NOW.If I stop thinking racist,then it has effectively STOPPED in MY life.Regardless of who else does it or not.Or if they NEVER do it.It doesn't matter.If Violent Jihadists decide"This is NOT the will of God...this hatred of others".....then the acts stop right there,and the healing begins.The past does not matter.Only the NOW.That's what shapes the future,and creates the past.That's how I feel.I don't have room for hate in MY life.Period.At 50,I died from a heart attack.Took 12 hours to bring me back.Later on,I began to realize that time is going by.Once it's passed,it's gone...forever.I really didn't want to spend the rest of the time I have going over "the past" and living something that had no power to make my life better,except in retrospect of WHAT I no longer wanted to be.And that's me.I'm a conservative.NOT a liberal.I believe in the best for people.Regardless of skin color,race,or religious ideas.I don't believe in war...never have...but I'm old enough now to understand that there are times when "the bad" have to be stopped,for the sake of "the good".I will always support that...and those who give their everything for that end.I think the present group of people in the gov't need to be removed.I don't think they care one bit about the American People.I think they're grabbing all they can right now because they know their time is short.This IMO is NOT the American way,or dream.I think the things that have been passed in the last year have been carefully designed to rob the American people and place them in a state of dependence.This is to me NOT the freedom our founding fathers set down and established.Was Slavery wrong?....yes.Is bigotry wrong?...yes.Was Hiroshima wrong?...IMO,yes.Ousting Saddam...yes..I believe it was the right thing to do.That doesn't mean ALL Americans love to see others perish,or that ANY Americans want to see destruction on innocent lives..Just like not all Muslims are hateful towards America,or Americans.Or ALL Blacks hating whites...or vice versa.You gotta remember....it was a conservative,WHITE (party doesn't matter much here)man that gave his life(and not his only) defending the rights of the oppressed....at that time...the Blacks.If that "other" party would have had their way...slavery here would still be alive and well.And they're the first ones to cry"racism" when these things are addressed.Have they forgotten who they are?What they stand for really?

* Last updated by: blue07 on 9/9/2010 @ 8:17 PM *

EXTREMISTS SHOULD BE TAUGHT TO APOLOGISE FOR 9/11 ATTACK AND ALL THEY ARE LIKE IS prehistoric cavemen !! uneducated idiots!! dinorsars!!lower than monkeys pieces of shit,I wish u could get everyone of them together and say stop this shit about all of this !!!!!!!! because if if u don't recind we will wipe u's of the face of the earth !!! if we were so backwood and weak gay perfetic pedofiles as all extremist hippercrits ARE , Who then is a true ''INFIDEL"(THEY ARE) when THEY USE OUR "ZIONIST" Western Technoligy ??? THIS ALONE PURPORTS TO WHO IS A "TRUE INFIDEL" TRUTH HIRTS DOESN'T IT YOU WEAK PRICKS stop the all this CRAP NOW or well fuckin nuke the mountains in afganistin/pakiston mountains !! and any other fuckheads like them deserve the same disrespect !! I hope that normal muslims should not be treated badly too, it is more so "can they be good humans" !! in any country of course only in my opinion I belive most if not all religons are hipocrits when it comes to peace.just look at the worlds history for my opinion.

* Last updated by: bean07 on 9/10/2010 @ 9:21 PM *

"You do know America is mostly Christian yet we are the biggest proverys of violets in the world right now.I not defending anyone just pointing out the facts"...this I did not say.

I know you did n't say it I'm stating this fact

And no,I do not believe America is "mostly Christian"...I do however think that most Americans follow the "golden rule" to some extent in their lives...certainly not all.Certainly not enough.

You don't have to believe it but 76% of Americans are Christian practicing the religion is something eles entirely.

Blue I read you entire post but I'm confused what does race,Jessie Jackson,Al Sharpton,the black panthers,liberlas or concervatives or the fact someone miss treated becuse of your race and what you did to over come that have to do with the question at hand which is "can muslims be good Americans" I 'm not sure how you are making the connection but just so we are clear being a Muslim is a religion not a race. Check this out he seems like a nice guy to me and has no intention to kill you or me. Intresting story

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8b3wNXEyPA

Now these guys well they are just a bunch whacked out fools that are using miss using religion to gain power. Its really sad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gzyeo1Z1I4&feature=related

* Last updated by: willidx4 on 9/10/2010 @ 8:36 PM *

I belive most if not all religons are hipocrits when it comes to peace.just look at the worlds history for my opinion.

HEY I obviously aint religious, I do belive in the principles of the " ten commandments" if they had real claims to thier beliefs then no one should hate anyone but then again thats why they don't like learned teachings just ask the taliban about that,in reallity they are scared of the truth !!

Some good post there Will.

All I'm saying is the answer is not revenge,or hatred.Tit for Tat...that will never solve the problem.If Muslims don't want to be categorized with the Jihadists(which in itself is NOT bad....it actually means"inward struggle"...not ARMED struggle against others)...then they should be opening up and spreading THAT message.Not "Death to America"..."kill the Christians".Burning American flags.There's over a thousand Mosques in New York alone.Where are the voices demanding that Islam stop softpeddling the works of extremists.Around the world.Muslims...speaking out against this twist of the Islamic word..jihad.If they want to be trusted...this is a good way to show they're sincere.If they love being in America...and accept and care about the "American" people...why aren't they protesting the actions of the "few" who are bringing a reproach to the Muslim world.You just look at the contrast.This guy wants to burn the Quran.Okay.He claims he's Pentecostal Christian.As soon as word got out about this...what did the American public do?They OPENLY condemned and did all they could to assure Muslims that NOT ALL "Americans" are thinking like this guy.Even a call from the Pres.Now that seems to me that "Americans"Christian or not are concerned about relations between Americans and Muslims.I've not seen this type of dialoge from the Muslims in regards to ANY of the controversies going on.Can Muslims be good Americans?Yes...if when push comes to shove they can stand up in the face of criticism and say proudly"We are Americans...we love this land,and we will defend her against ALL enemies foreign and domestic"."We intend to open the Quran to scrutiny and to challenge some of it's teachings".Why not...the BIBLE is there for everyone to see.Nothing in there that talks about "destruction of other peoples because they don't choose to believe".

I say again...they're in a pickle because of their own teachings.If they follow Mohammed to the tee,then they HAVE to inwardly hate ALL those who do not embrace Islam.They are apostates if they choose to think differently about this "commandment".And if they say..."well,that doesn't apply now"...HOW can they "trust" that the rest of their Quran is valid?You see what I'm saying I know.So what IS there to do?For them?Yer NEVER gonna be trusted IF your "Teachings from GOD(Allah)" are based on destruction of the ones who are all around you,"infidels".This is their dilemma.I've NO idea how they're going to resolve this most basic and pivotal teaching in their Quran.Until they bring this teaching to light,under the lamp of scrutiny....it'll never get resolved...that "can Muslims be Good Americans?"And as long as that's their core belief,they will never be accepted in a free society as ours.Something's gotta give.America is not going to accept Islam.EVER.We don't believe in that philosophy.Therefore,with Islam's present teachings,Muslims...REAL MUSLIMS will ALWAYS seek to follow the Quran,which means...yes...destruction of "infidel" peoples(or Nations).

Personally,I think this topic has been an EXCELLENT subject.For people to get on here with a common love for zx14's...motorcycling...and have a discussion about something as honestly serious as this subject is...is totally cool and kind of amazing really.This forum and it's members are the best of the best.That's how I feel about it.

I give Romans a big KUDO baby!Way to go Rome!

Reread his first post if you want to see the contrast between Islam and American lifestyle.It's quite clear unfortunately(for true Muslims)claiming they want to be good Americans...not that they can't if they so choose.(of course...if they ARE good Muslims...they won't WANT to be Americanized!).

* Last updated by: blue07 on 9/11/2010 @ 10:18 PM *

Muslims...REAL MUSLIMS will ALWAYS seek to follow the Quran,which means...yes...destruction of "infidel" peoples(or Nations).

There in lies the problem. I am currently surrounded with it. I know they hate us. I can see it. Sad. Religion based on hate. I have done nothing to them as a people and was much happier when I did not know what they were always so pissed about. Now that I know,,,,,, my way of thinking has changed. Welcome to Canada & United States. Pay back for being nice,,,,, Well, Not so much.

Ya...I hear ya.Anyway....just WHAT IS a GOOD AMERICAN anyway?I think I know.But......anyone else know?Is it "being a Christian?"....not to me.I know lots of people who are not "Christian",and they are sweet people.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 9/11/2010 @ 10:22 PM *

WELFARE POEM

I cross ocean,
poor and broke,
Take bus,
see employment folk.

Nice man treat me
good in there,
Say I need to
see welfare.

Welfare say,
'You come no more,
We send cash
right to your door.'

Welfare checks,
they make you wealthy,
Medicaid it keep
you healthy!

By and by,
I got plenty money,
Thanks to you,
Canadian dummy.

Write to friends
in motherland,
Tell them 'come
fast as you can.'

They come in turbans
and Ford trucks,
I buy big house
with welfare bucks

They come here,
we live together,
More welfare checks,
it gets better!

Fourteen families,
they moving in,
But neighbor's patience
wearing thin.

Finally, white guy
moves away,
Now I buy his house,
and then I say,

'Find more aliens
for house to rent.'
And in the yard
I put a tent.

Send for family
they just trash,
But they, too,
draw the welfare cash!

Everything is
very good,
And soon we
own the neighborhood.

We have hobby
it's called breeding,
Welfare pay
for baby feeding.

Kids need dentist?
Wife need pills?
We get free!
We got no bills!

Canadian crazy!
He pay all year,
To keep welfare
running here.

We think Canada
darn good place!
Too darn good for
the white man race.

If they no like us,
they can scram,
Got lots of room in
Pakistan .

White boy aint gonna burn the Quran.Sweet.Muslim boy....still chanting "death to America" "kill the Christians"....burning American flag anyway.And I STILL haven't heard ANY outcry by the Muslim(Islamic)world to STOP desecrating the American Symbol of Freedom.What I do hear is Karsai stating..."The INVADERS"..in his 9/11 appeal for "peace" in Afghanistan.He wasn't sayin that when we were savin his arse from the Taliban.

Obviously chanting "death to America"....means....death to all Muslims as well living in America.Doesn't that make ya feel warm and cozy knowing that their own brothers hate each other...nice religion,that Islam.Just makes me wanna turn a new leaf and join up to the "peaceful religion".

Anyone read the "latest" concerning their "new" way of spreading peace?Nice HUGE crater left by a "powerful explosive device designed to destroy our new heavily armored vehicles".....UNFORTUNATELY...it "went off" killing three Afghan families and critically wounding several children.....who were"immediately taken to the US outpost for medical treatment and flown by US helicopters to the capitol in Kabul for emergency care...by American forces and doctors.So much for the Godless infidels we Americans are.And where were the "peaceful,loving Islamists?"...setting their next roadside bomb to terrorize their own people.Nice.Who's invading who here?

Let's see...just in the last 24 hours...looks like the Islamists are scoring ahead of the Americans here with murder and mayhem.We somehow managed to kill 4 taliban insurgents.They got 3 innocent families and children to boot!Score for Mohammed and Allah!

I'm sorry...I'm not trying to make light of a horrible situation...it's so saddening that I want to cry. I feel for the loss of those innocents.The truth is so obvious..yet no one seems to be able to admit....a spirit of hate is running rampant throughout the Muslim world.Not all Muslims are hating.But those that aren't are getting caught up in the actions of those that could care less about Allah,or peace,or individual freedom,or life's sanctity.You Muslims out there....you need to stand up against these atrocities(just as WE have about our OWN actions)and demand that radical Islam is not gonna be tolerated in any way shape or form in the Islamic world.It aint up to the US to get your act together.Quit blaming us for your ungodly deeds.

You want us to leave your countries...okay...I get it.WE want to leave your countries.Stop murdering your own and we'll leave.Simple as that.Be part of the solution.America wasn't founded on allowing the strong to destroy the weak(innocents).We stand up for each other,and those of other countries and creeds and races.We've no fight against Islam.Just the murdering bastards who use "Islam" as a shield to fulfill their wicked desires.Period.God Bless ALL freedom loving souls and that includes Muslims.And Jews.And non-believers.And atheists.And Black.And Red.And Arabs.And Chinese.And whomever else desires life and peace over hate and tyranny.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 9/12/2010 @ 11:12 AM *

All I'm saying is the answer is not revenge,or hatred.Tit for Tat...that will never solve the problem.If Muslims don't want to be categorized with the Jihadists(which in itself is NOT bad....it actually means"inward struggle"...not ARMED struggle against others)...then they should be opening up and spreading THAT message.Not "Death to America"..."kill the Christians".Burning American flags.

So you’re saying there mere silence is betrayal? Blue the very people seeking some type of revenge or want to kill Americans and Christians are all extremist. You might want to get to know some Muslim people as trust me they denounce the actions of extremist just as much as any American.

Obviously chanting "death to America"....means....death to all Muslims as well living in America.Doesn't that make ya feel warm and cozy knowing that their own brothers hate each other...nice religion,that Islam.Just makes me wanna turn a new leaf and join up to the "peaceful religion".

Blue you do know that Christians in the US controlled the slave trade for 246 years in US and the conservative estimate of the number of people who died in the slave trade is 20 million. If fact there are passages in the bible that are kind of a how to concerning slavery see Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

here is a little tip that tells you how to treat your Hebrew slaves (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

Just in case you want to make a little booty call/rape of a slave this little tip will help you keep things on the up and up so to speak. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

Trust me I could go on and on but the fact is I know for a fact many Christ loving people don't take the text literally just as most Muslims don't take their text literally. Blue I'm not anti Christian in fact I was born a Baptist and my parents and entire family are practicing Baptist. Although I no longer practice a particular religion through Christianity I learned how to find the good in people and examine my own faults before examining the faults of others. Most importantly I learned how to let people live a life a dignity regardless of my own personal feelings. This is something many practicing Christians find very diffucult to do sometimes.

Think about this for a second

“Judge Not, That Ye Be Not Judged”

You want us to leave your countries...okay...I get it.WE want to leave your countries.Stop murdering your own and we'll leave.Simple as that

Have you seen the murder rate in the United States better yet look up the murder rate for the south side of Chicago.

.Be part of the solution.America wasn't founded on allowing the strong to destroy the weak(innocents).We stand up for each other,and those of other countries and creeds and races

Historical fact : American natives provided for the pilgrams when they arrived. Things went great until the Pilgrams no longer needed there help. The pilgrams grew strong and killed many native Americans and took there land by the way they were Puritans. So yes America was founded on allowing the strong to destroy the weak and innocents.

.We've no fight against Islam.Just the murdering bastards who use "Islam" as a shield to fulfill their wicked desires..

WTF so you mean to tell me after condeming the Muslim religion as a whole throughout this entire thread for weeks on we agree that the extremist are the problem not Musliums in gerneral.

* Last updated by: willidx4 on 9/13/2010 @ 10:12 AM *

IMOP being a good American is keeping an eye on the people we put in power. Not viewing the Country through rose colored glasses and being willing to point out the flaws in our country so we can improve. Most importantly living up to the promises we put on paper and not being willing to compromise that document under any circumstances. So all the flag waving and God bless America yelling folks on the news that think we should not allow a particular group of people to practice there religion becuse it hurts someones feelings are wrong in my view and I have no problem telling them they are wrong.

* Last updated by: willidx4 on 9/13/2010 @ 12:08 PM *