yannih - I'd actually prefer the thread continued ... until somebody provides some counter-proof.

And, no, blipping the throttle at a standstill is not proof. And blipping the throttle at slows speeds to wheelie. Sorry, but that just doesn't tell me anything.

And I see nothing wrong with riding around a parking lot slowly trying to make your demonstration ... although the 'parking lot owner' disagrees with me! ... but it just didn't prove anything to me. I'm not concerned with whether or not the ECU with "Cblast" written on it really is the Cblast ECU; the vid just didn't show me anything.

So how about some other kind of proof guys? 1/4-mile times? 20 mph - 80 mph roll-ons? 40 - 100? Whatever you wanna do, just make it firm. Show us some numbers. No more throttle blips ... but I still says thanks Grn for trying. You're the only one who actually HAS tried to provide some proof countering Vic's vid.

---

Everyone knows that the stock ecu is restricted in the lower gears so a 1st gear test isn't the same test that Vic did.

Vic tested 3rd and 4th..... in these gears, full throttle results will be much harder to tell a difference by seat of the pants.

Without a road marker and a timer, it will be impossible to recreate Vic's tests.

The best test without a dyno would be to datalog the mixture and the TPS, Sub TPS, and MAP sensors, then view the logs in a proper log viewer.

Ivan

I nearly stated this before but I knew it would've fallen on deaf ears. But Ivan, I know you will understand what I'm going to say. Hub might be able to understand this, but his maths are goofy. For most of the people here, I mean this with no insult, I do not expect most of you to understand what this post is going to state.

The following statement is not entirely accurate...

Without a road marker and a timer, it will be impossible to recreate Vic's tests.

Here's why...

For the following, "under normal conditions" means the bike is in perfect working order. "any gear" does not include neutral

We must accept the following are givens
1st) we must accept that from the perspective of mechanical grip, the tires are mechanically connected (have grip) with the surface they are in contact, the wheel is mechanically connected to the chain via the sprockets, the front sprocket is mechanically connected to the output shaft thus clutch, the clutch plates are mechanically connected to each other (clutch engaged and not slipping), and the clutch bastket is mechanically connected to the engine cranksaft. Given these circumstances, if the crankshaft moves the the bike must move, or if the surface moves the crankshaft must also move.

2nd) the 14R has 2 power modes, F & L. We must accept that (under normal conditions) there is an actual difference in the rate that the motorcycle will accelerate is faster in F than L. For example, if I conducted these same test in L the bike would take a longer period of time for the engine to increase rpm from 4k to 10,900.

given point 1 and 2 derives point 3) in any gear at an rpm the speed the motorcycle's speed is constant despite the power output levels of the engine. For example, (hypothetically) at 10,000 rpm in 1st gear the bike is traveling 65 mph. This is the same whether the bike's power mode is in F or L, or speedometer error. If it helps regarding speedometer error isn't a factor, let's just assume the speedometer is taped over. Percentage of throttle opening has no effect on the speed either, whether 15% or 100% open at 10,000 rpm in 1st the bike is traveling 65mph, even if at 15% the bike is not changing speed and at 100% throttle the bike is still accelerating. At x rpm in y gear, the speed is the same.

4th) we must accept speed is well understood in maths and physics. Speed is the result of a formula: speed = distance/time . We must also agree that rate of acceleration is well understood and although the formula is more complex, it exist and is still tied to time.

Ivan I'm certain at least you will have agreed with these things because they are either self-evident or proven in maths/physics. If you do not agree, please tell me in the manner you do not agree, but not that you don't believe or feel these are accurate but in the manner in which either maths or physics disagrees.

Now everyone here is stuck in the "real world" mentality, even Ivan. The world you can use your senses with. You're stating "we need to see ground markers".

Who here knows anything about piston speed? Who here knows what bore x stroke is? Who here knows how bore x stroke affects piston speed? From a physics & engineering there is a maximum feet per second pistons can travel given a rotating mass (and such and so on). Why is this? Do you see where I'm going yet?

With each stroke, a pistons travel a distance. A 14R's stroke is 65mm. If 1000 strokes have occurred, this means the piston travels 130000mm, or 130 meters, or 416.5 feet. Remember in 1 stroke the piston travels up and down, there for it's 2(D) (2 x 65)). Why is this? Do you see where I'm going yet?

5000 rpm this means 5000 strokes per minute. I can calculate at 14R's pistons speed at a given rpm for a given time. Let's take 5000 rpm the piston's speed is :
~10833 = (5000/60)(130)/1 (5000 rpm / 60 seconds x 130 (distance traveled in a stroke) divided by 1 second)
To get the distance in one minute, multiply the result by 60:
~10833(60) = ~649980mm or ~2132 feet in one minute at 5000 rpm

I do not have to observe the piston moving to know that it is traveling a distance, this is easily calculated.

So we can measure distance by not only how far the motorcycle "travels" via road marks or whatever, we can also measure the distance a piston has traveled. Or to say, the distance the piston travels directly relates to the number of rotations of the tire thus the distance covered is the same thing, whether measured in piston travel or tired rotations, or "markers on the ground".

Thus, the number of strokes required in 3rd (or any gear) gear to increase the rpm from 4,000 to 10,900 is exactly the same independent of the ECU that was installed. It is the distance the pistons must travel that matters and directly correlates to the distance the motorcycle itself covered on the ground.

This is the function of power. The engine is capable of x output of power. Therefore, two identical bikes, with everything identical, ridden identically, in the same gear, the one that produces more power will be able to cover the same distance in less time, whether it's "piston feet" or what we typically think of as a distance...two marked points. The number of piston feet traveled will be the same for both bikes. The number of tire rotations will be the same for both bikes.

Here's 100% proof. Take your bike out and record how long it takes you to cover such ground accelerating at WOT. Now, cover the same stretch of road at 1/2 throttle. Did your bike's tire rotate more times because you weren't accelerating as fast the 2nd run? NO. Did your engine spin more revolutions because you were going slower? NO.

This is the level this test was thought out to and this is the level I operate at. Again, I don't expect most or really any of you to get this. Hopefully you will. But I won't hold out hope.

* Last updated by: VicThing on 7/18/2015 @ 9:19 AM *

Actually, yannih this is more of a study in electronics. It's like saying, Ivan, I don't feel a difference in the tre, why did I buy it? So there is a seat of the pants difference. I've seen/heard enough on Vic's vid. Lucky for Vic the time was clocked.

There is too much missing. Why Vic won't cop up to a spin down the street or on that very street Vic was on that day of the loft. And with very little effort I might add. Now, look at Grn struggle with the OE trying to come up. Grn swears buy the Cflashit and this guy goes thru a lot of testing. I'm trying to catch up on the same moves, so there is a valid vid from Grn and valid Vic and his vid. Conclusion?

Vic = Decent rider.
Grn = Better rider.

Grn holds a flash = Low end bytes.
Vic holds his nuts = Dragging on the ground... oh now I see the rider has ball fatigue, Grn whips his out of the trouser pocket.

Signed,

VHNB ~ FFS!

Say WATT? I said, Vic The Dick Has No Balls.
Say WOT? I said, Vic Has NO BALLS for 200 yards worth since the day he opened that mailbox, pulled out a Flash for Cash, Alex, I'll take VHNB alls for $400.

For all your talk Hub, what I just posted proves how little you really understand any of this. Again, I don't expect you to understand for 2 reasons, and those 2 reasons are in how we understand the world differently.

Yup...ur right Yan.I'm outta this thread now.Thanks.

Thanks for the ride, Grn. Oh, you mean hasnoballs has no balls is he left them on the hill with the fool is who is fooling whom here?

This needs a meat puppet vid. All those in favor say...

---

Grn - BTW, if your wrist really turns the throttle as precisely as you feel like it does, it doesn't seem like you'd need to be worried about flipping over backward while wheelieing ... whether with the OEM ECU or the 'scary' Cblast ECU ... since you're implying that you're robotic enough that you simply couldn't make a mistake like that.

---

So how about some other kind of proof guys? 1/4-mile times? 20 mph - 80 mph roll-ons? 40 - 100? Whatever you wanna do, just make it firm. Show us some numbers. No more throttle blips ...?

Read my post on page 8 extrapolator……….

* Last updated by: jdw8xb on 7/18/2015 @ 9:51 AM *

Again, I don't expect you to understand for 2 reasons, and those 2 reasons are in how we understand the world differently.

Again, I have no clue what a Cflash feels like so I go by the field testers/buyers. But like the buyers that have bought, I present Grn's ride in such a short amount of... And I told you why I sign off as I do, we have come full circle once again did I mention???

So it was tire mounts ago, no need for an AFR read is read Grn's change in pocket. That looks like yank-ability by just swapping whatever that change was, I'm going to assume right back to C sending out the same flash, you were not shortchanged as per flash. Your numbers show it is my ASSumption on the line.

It's back to credibility. And you threw a flag, dug a hole for yourself, contradicted yourself say no change in assfactor speak, whereas, Grn/Wolfy/Start the list of those that can 'feel' a difference. Again, Vic, not here with a coal in my hand is the fire of someone's riding on some sort of electronics going on... I have to believe your side, Vic, but without you running a Grn'Run at it; without how long ago was my suggestion and you have ABS too.

"Grn's Curb Side Service" ATE Your Service!
ATE = Another [Testicle]-Test Electrics.

Points right back to the E-Box. So back to 2 reasons why.
1. Why you did not run that short squirt like Grn, I have no clue is your world vs. Grn/mine/others in this camping world.
2. Why you may have just a certain amount of flash is no AFR, no write to speak. So your world is more hidden valley is the fool on the hill.

Real world... Get on the bike, go Grn. Wheelie or won'tea-hee-hee

---

I don't want to hear shit about testing at 5500 rpms now.

Let’s remember that you are the one who started this shit.
By starting at 4k you inadvertently biased results to favor OEM tune. You have the end times and the software to pick different start times for different RPM ranges. Should not take more than 15 minutes to do, less time than some of the posts you made in this thread. Why the resistance?

I should have read more carefully how these tests were done....

Road markers would never be accurate enough.
Can't argue with time vs. rpm

Well done Vic.

Just out of curiosity as an engineer (assuming you are an engineer), what made you choose this flash over the others available to you?

Ivan

---

"it doesn't seem like you'd need to be worried about flipping over backward while wheelieing ... whether with the OEM ECU or the 'scary' Cblast ECU"

Well...what I can say about THIS 'observation'...whether Cflash or OEM...this bike WILL flip over...regardless. I'd simply suggest...get yours out...in 1st...let her fly.Good luck trusting that KTRC in '1' setting.It will stop a wheely IF the bike is moving pretty good and ya mildly start to loft...yes.It will stop that.I didn't have the room to do it like that.But I've done it on the street.So yes...it can be controlled in KTRC1...The point I was trying to show there...from my starting throttle inputs,to the actual lift...Was VERY FAST in those conditions.Way faster than the KTRC can stop it.The OEM can perform the same type of lift...HOWEVER...it doesn't do that near as quick.Or in a short a period of space(road).

I think Vic's videos were indeed valid...however...he wasn't trying to wheely(kick in the torque).That's where the Cflash thrives.And also in the midrange...at least on my bike.

Green you took the time to do a few passes to support your point. Ie the power in the lower rev range and the ease at which you can loft the front wheel. Thank you for taking the time to do it.

Vicker
It's weird to see your reaction to skepticism, I've noted a trend in your responses when folks question your perspective or dare we criticize you. The methodology in your response is always the same. First you blow it off. Next you turn the tables and last you dodge requests. Some people here have questioned the following...

1 A run at a higher rpm range 5500 - what's the big deal seems reasonable?

2 clearly showing ecu labeled as Cflash or stock?
I tend to agree what's the big deal.

3 you're claim that this thread is not out to hurt C

When you say things like, most or some will not understand paragraphs of your narratives it presupposes we are stupid! I might suggest we lack the interest in you to actually read your posts. I belong to the "here is a post from Vic, it's long, it attacks people - should I bother reading it?"
Should I bother responding - what insults will reign when I do. Everyone who has challenged you gets flamed those that don't flattered or left alone.

that said Yan said it well. Let's stop hailing insults and take a break. Let's keep to posting evidence. I have a feeling a video post, testing these results by another party is coming. And when it does we should look at it with fresh eyes.

* Last updated by: Wolfman on 7/18/2015 @ 3:07 PM *

---

Here's 100% proof. Take your bike out and record how long it takes you to cover such ground accelerating at WOT. Now, cover the same stretch of road at 1/2 throttle.

I'll 100% show your flaw. Tre means timing eliminator. So right there is timing. If I'm too advanced, I run out of steam. If I am at max burn, and now lets match feet for feet, wheel for wheel turn, who caused a faster speed event is the valve opened sooner is the piston push and now the valve opens. Whereas, your timing was slowing down the curve is stock, but less advance is more power ATDC, where too advance is fighting kinetic and is almost spent, whereas the less advanced, more power burning faster down the power stroke.

So your theory is flawed at any speed we enter ign curve and note the different speed events. Make sense in your world, now? I didn't think so.

* Last updated by: Hub on 7/18/2015 @ 1:50 PM *

---

Alag8ter,
I don't think flash sales are influenced by my support or lack there-in a product. I've said it before I'm an ordinary man on an extraordinary bike. I look forward to another perspective on this flash. So far we have Vic's testimonial. Let's triangulate the results. If we run the same test theoretically we should get the same results. My question will be what if we don't?

---

Even in 3rd gear,the 14 will not wheely..held wide open.What's this got to do with anything?At 4k...the torque and power is just not there.Even in 1st...it doesn't kick in until right about 4500,to 5K.That's when the loft starts.The Cflash will loft sooner in that window than the stock one.The stock ECU will lift at right around 5k...or a little above.C's will begin to lift at 4500.In 1st.At least on mine.I don't dare open it all the way when getting the lift from C's flash...the factory one gives a bit of 'forgiveness'...it doesn't just go skyward all of a sudden.The point being...every gear with the c flash behaves like this....not that it will wheely in all gears...no...but the pull is what makes the difference...especially in the midrange,and a downshift with full throttle application.The stock one just can't keep up with the C flashed ECU.

I should have read more carefully how these tests were done....

Road markers would never be accurate enough.
Can't argue with time vs. rpm

Well done Vic.

Just out of curiosity as an engineer (assuming you are an engineer), what made you choose this flash over the others available to you?

Ivan

Thanks Ivan. I knew you'd understand piston distance vs. ground distance. I'm not a mechanical engineer. I'm a software developer/engineer (basically the same thing). I'm a highly trained problem solver, and problem solving is the same whether it's software, mechanical, electrical, etc. I'm sure you have some understanding of the types of things software developers/engineers can do. Someone like me made your ECU flashing software.

What made me choose flash over pig/flash?
- for available options (flash or pig/flash) any notable gains (8-10 peak hp and x% throughout the curve) would be cheap hp at around $400 - $1100

reasons for flash only solution
< Cost (fact)
< point of failure (fact)
>= performance (advertised)
- utility of change maps has little to no value for me (fact)
- a basic understanding of diminishing returns
- cookie cutter product gets 98%
- the other 2% cost 50% more

If I understand the options here's a general price breakdown
flash only - $400
Ivan setup - $700*
Custom dyno setup - $1100*
* I would install any pig myself, some may have to pay for installation as well

Customer testimonials/General reputation
Your products have a great reputation. C's products really have a great reputation. But I know butt-dyno cannot be trusted and generally people are going to feel something more than what's there just do to the fact they just spend $2k on upgrades (including exhaust/installation)...and if they don't feel that difference WTF did they just spend $2k on? I've actually read neutral/slightly negative things about Brock/Guhls having fueling issues (flat spots and such).

Testing
For me to choose C's product I had to see some testing. Several months ago now, a forum member here and CBlast agreed to do some 1/4 mile product comparison testing. A small amount of testing was done, and basically showed that C's product was competitive to a Brock/Guhls flash/pig setup (IIRC). For me this was the type of proof I needed. For clarification, this test did not include a stock ECU. So who knows how that would've faired?

That testing blew up and ended in accusations and conspiracy. Still I took the information that was gathered as basically a win for CBlast. I believe that ultimately the two products were < .1 from each other.

What do I believe
I do believe that if I took my bike to a dyno, the Cblasted ECU would show higher output than the stock ECU. I honestly do believe this. Which leads to two possible conclusions:
- the engine is making more power on and off the dyno but the increases are not enough to have an actual impact on the bike's acceleration rate
- the engine makes more power on the dyno, but for some reason those increases are not actualized or are negated in real world riding

Combined everything here are the bases for my conclusion I stated in the initial post that I think all flash/fueling products would fair about the same in a "stock ECU vs. x" test. What did we see in smokinzx14's 1/4 mile testing? CBlast = Brock. What did we see in my testing? Stock = CBlast.

Back in 2012 when I did my testing, this bike only gained 2-3 hp across the rpm range and at peak after power commander and ignition timing adjustments.

I later found another 2-3 in the power peak from adjustments in some other areas after I started using my own equipment. (No I won't tell because it's not relevant to the post here, and I don't educate my competitors in an open forum)
All of my dyno tests were done in 5th gear so the factory restrictions weren't interfering with the results.

There just isn't any more...
10 hp? No way, not on this bike....

Showing more power by leaning the fueling so it's mixture is correct on the dyno just shows what the power is/would be when the bike is actually moving.
Using that leaner mixture on the road is too lean and will slow the bike down.... Knowing how rich it's supposed to be on the dyno will give the correct result on the road.

Leaning the mixture will show almost 10 hp on the dyno (on this bike).... This bike has a pretty heavy ram air compensation in the upper gears due to it's having to deal with a 200 mph wind blast, so naturally there is a nice gain (as much as 8-10 hp) on the dyno by leaning it out.

Big gains in the lower gears (mainly 1 & 2) are from removing the restrictions, and part throttle response comes from opening the subs sooner, finding the correct opening programming gives the best response at all rpms and all throttle openings.... not just hang them completely open before the engine can use that amount of air.
(causing hesitation under heavy load from too much intake area)
Having access to just the sub throttle tables isn't enough to properly adjust them either..... There are more things than this that need to be changed to make everything work as it should.

If the bike makes more power, then the time will be reduced... this cannot be argued.... it's just pure physics law.

Ivan

* Last updated by: Ivan on 7/18/2015 @ 6:38 PM *

---

“Combined everything here are the bases for my conclusion I stated in the initial post that I think all flash/fueling products would fair about the same in a "stock ECU vs. x" test. What did we see in smokinzx14's 1/4 mile testing? CBlast = Brock. What did we see in my testing? Stock = CBlast.”

Stock ECU is slower
Smokin said:
“I tested all these things one at a time just to see what gains I got .. With just a pipe ( old brocks smeg off my 09 zx14 ) and just under 64 inch WB ( cheap bolt on extensions), no P/C , no flash I ran a stack of 8.52s .. tuned P/C 8.49 to 8.47 .. Flash 8.44 to 8.45 ..Added BSTs, well you know the rest ..I don't run 0wt oil and I run a 0ring chain ( EK ZZZ 530 )”

NO PC, No Flash, Stock ECU = 8.52

Tuned PC with brocks flash = 8.44 to 8.45

Stock is slower than CBlast and Brocks Flash 2 and PCV

* Last updated by: jdw8xb on 7/18/2015 @ 7:35 PM *

"But I know butt-dyno cannot be trusted and generally people are going to feel something more than what's there just do to the fact they just spend $2k on upgrades (including exhaust/installation)...and if they don't feel that difference WTF did they just spend $2k on? I've actually read neutral/slightly negative things about Brock/Guhls having fueling issues (flat spots and such)."...there ya go again...making personal 'judgements' on what OTHERS may or may not be thinking.You may be an engineer of sorts...but ya sure aint no mind reader.Your assumption with THIS statement is completely a figment of your OWN reasons for getting the flash.

I bought ALL my mods because I liked em.They all worked fine.To suggest that I or others would fabricate 'results' because of price spent...is complete BS.That's YOUR thinking and reason.Not mine or probably none of the other guys here.

You're insulting.It's obvious you're into the cost deal...with all the layouts of what costs this,what costs that.Money...that's what it's about for you,apparently.

Who exactly told you or anyone else here that Guhls flashes have 'flat spots'.Ever TRY a Brock's or Guhl flash?No,you haven't.You're too scared to loft your bike...that's obvious.So when you say..."they feel it cause they believe it"...I think YOU'RE the one believing your own BS."buttdynos are invalid"...biggest crock I've ever heard.If you can't tell the difference in how the bike feels,with ANY 'go faster' mod...shame on you.You've no business writing caustic 'ideas' to the members here.Take yer bike out and RIDE it like it was meant to be ridden.Not this BS 4K roll-on stuff.Not our fault you're scared to to get some air time.

You'd save yer credibility if you could just post up some videos of you launching your bike to wheely...more than one mind you.And some of your 'over the speed limit' cornering and such.As it stands now,IMO,though you claim to have had strong machines...I haven't seen ANYTHING from you that would indicate...hooliganism.Not stupidity mind you,but some real roadriding that requires steady concentration and skills.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 7/18/2015 @ 7:54 PM *

This test has nothing to do with drag racing.

Rider skill/error/weather/wind conditions from different days needs to be removed to evaluate true gains.

This test is about a timed 4000 rpm roll-on until redline in 2 gears and in two opposite directions for each gear which is much more realistic to street riders than drag racers. Drag racing means nothing to most street riders.

Drag racers are only 10% - 15% of the ZX14 community.

* Last updated by: Ivan on 7/18/2015 @ 8:05 PM *

---

Yep..agreed.This isn't about Dragging at all.Personally,I really don't care if my bike is layin down 200 hp,or somewhat less(or more).I ride in the low,midrange most of the time.Numbers really don't mean anything to me.Performance..that's what I want.My flash upped the performance level to where I wanted it.LIke looking at a dyno.You have numbers...they may or may not be what you expected..or they may surpass expectations.That's fine.It's the road out there...that's where I want to FEEL improvement.That's what I go by...not whether it's putting out 5 HP more or not.Anyone clinging to the idea that a 'butt-dyno' is worthless...just isn't getting it.

As we know..Drag guys NEED the highest HP to win.All that.Their goal is not to have the greatest driveabilty or whatever.They don't give shit about butt dynos.Times are what show their gains.But on the street...it's a different ballgame.Street performance is very different than Drag performance.

Those guys are ramping there motors up to 3,4,5K on launch.Even higher.I doubt many here have tried doing that on their 14's...from a dead stop.I could be wrong.I know I wouldn't,not unless I wanted to have a wrecked bike.

"redline in 2 gears"...ya know...I didn't see any gear shift in those videos...all I saw was a 4k power on...up to redline.He didn't change gears.Correct me if I'm wrong.I think he was scared to shift in those upper rpms...out of fear he kept it safely in whatever gear he started in.

For one thing...he's not being truthful when he says on his 'review' and parameters...'3"....then '4'.He didn't shift...period.So why's he say he did?

If he's gonna tell everyone the flash was no better(even slower)than stock...how can anyone believe him if he can't get his OWN facts straight about the shifting and such.Look at his video again...he's NOT shifting from 3rd to 4th.

I can't tell what gear he's in,can anyone?Whatever gear it is...it stays there throughout every run.

If he started in 3rd,then shifted at about 10K...he'd have definitely FELT a big difference(holding throttle WIDE OPEN).I don't think he'd be saying.."no difference,even slower".

BTW...when someone gets an instruction booklet concerning an item,do they toss it in the trash?Most don't.Yet C instructed Vic how to get the best performance out of his flash...did he follow the instructions?NO...he didn't.

I conclude with this...his tests were not valid because he didn't follow directions.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 7/18/2015 @ 8:39 PM *

This test has nothing to do with drag racing.

Rider skill/error/weather/wind conditions from different days needs to be removed to evaluate true gains.

This test is about a timed 4000 rpm roll-on until redline in 2 gears and in two opposite directions for each gear which is much more realistic to street riders than drag racers. Drag racing means nothing to most street riders.

Drag racers are only 10% - 15% of the ZX14 community.

I only mentioned the drag racing testing as correlating the result. I agree, drag racing has nothing to do with street performance.

“Combined everything here are the bases for my conclusion I stated in the initial post that I think all flash/fueling products would fair about the same in a "stock ECU vs. x" test. What did we see in smokinzx14's 1/4 mile testing? CBlast = Brock. What did we see in my testing? Stock = CBlast.”

Stock ECU is slower
Smokin said:
“I tested all these things one at a time just to see what gains I got .. With just a pipe ( old brocks smeg off my 09 zx14 ) and just under 64 inch WB ( cheap bolt on extensions), no P/C , no flash I ran a stack of 8.52s .. tuned P/C 8.49 to 8.47 .. Flash 8.44 to 8.45 ..Added BSTs, well you know the rest ..I don't run 0wt oil and I run a 0ring chain ( EK ZZZ 530 )”

NO PC, No Flash, Stock ECU = 8.52

Tuned PC with brocks flash = 8.44 to 8.45

Stock is slower than CBlast and Brocks Flash 2 and PCV

First off, this is NOT THE TESTING I am referring to. The testing I am referring to occurred under more controlled conditions. So stop wondering why I'm ignoring you posting this, and stop posting this.

< a tenth is the same as far as any practical street application. That's a 1/4 of the time of a slow eye blink! I stand by my call that stock = cblast = brocks. Plus we know nothing about the test conditions, dates, times, weather, locations, rider weight, fuel, etc.

Smokin also says I'm going to put this out there and you guys can do what you want with it .. My friend with his 2012 zx14r just put down a 8.82 at 159 in FL with a DA of 2700+ feet .. Guess what ? No flash , no weight added, foot shifting , nothing but a pipe and P/C pump gas tune by Brock ..I know because I installed the P/C and map . Hell he still has the mirrors it ..He weighs more than me ..I'm shocked every time I see him run those numbers in this heat. He 60s in the low 1.50s and wheelies most every run ..Seems he out runs both flashes with NO flash .. Crazy is it not ? The video below is Jason at BMP that day was 2275 DA 90 Deg 50+ humidity ..Pretty great run , not his best but still a very nice pass..

* Last updated by: VicThing on 7/18/2015 @ 9:40 PM *

I conclude with this...his tests were not valid because he didn't follow directions.

Grow up

“Buy a stock ECU or throw in a stock map (if you have a PCV). Do the same testing I did. Don't be surprised when you don't see any difference either. That's the only way you're going to believe anything. One things for sure, you cannot rely on "feels" for performance”

So we cannot rely on “feeling” for performance and we cannot rely on smoking’s quicker numbers with the Flash either. We can only rely on your testing……… got it.

Smokin also says I'm going to put this out there and you guys can do what you want with it .. My friend with his 2012 zx14r just put down a 8.82 at 159 in FL with a DA of 2700+ feet .. Guess what ? No flash , no weight added, foot shifting , nothing but a pipe and P/C pump gas tune by Brock ..I know because I installed the P/C and map . Hell he still has the mirrors it ..He weighs more than me ..I'm shocked every time I see him run those numbers in this heat. He 60s in the low 1.50s and wheelies most every run ..Seems he out runs both flashes with NO flash .. Crazy is it not ? The video below is Jason at BMP that day was 2275 DA 90 Deg 50+ humidity ..Pretty great run , not his best but still a very nice pass..

Agreed 8.82 with no flash but with PCV which has FUELING changes. What comparison is this to a stock ECU?

“a tenth is the same as far as any practical street application. That's a 1/4 of the time of a slow eye blink! I stand by my call that stock = cblast = brocks”
We can’t go by feel and when I show you the timed difference it’s not great enough so we can’t use that. So until there is a 1 sec difference it doesn’t count………….. got it.

I stand by my call that Stock =crap
CBlast = best

* Last updated by: jdw8xb on 7/19/2015 @ 7:37 AM *

or whatever, we can also measure the distance a piston has traveled.

I understand completely. I think you might be missing a time vs time on the stroke. If say we had one crank throw from ATDC to BDC is the concentration of time. If say that one full stroke is 360° and that starts at 0 and ends at 1000 feet. If say from .5 degrees past is After, then half that full stroke from top to bottom is say at the middle point, the exhaust valve opens and the diminishing returns has ended.

But as the returns were diminishing on the other side of the stroke is the compression and burn occurring, we add spark someplace. So say at half on the BDC to TDC, half is where the intake closes and now the compression begins. In the 'timing' of the spark, we now see the close of the intake and at the half way point from valve closing to TDC, we can set the spark someplace along that travel; before reaching the top and the power keeps going until the diminishing of the compression of the explosion going out; is where that time of the fire occurred + how much was added in the fueling to create more energy from that extra-extra little hit of fuel is a faster time.

So what I think you are missing was the fuel hit and it only was more or less an ignition hit to the fuel. I think you are missing AFR? Extra energy goes limp?> is no energy added or not? I would assume if you change map, the ign is going to calc to balance automatically I would have to assume are the dual math calc hardware pieces [program counter-hi/program counter-lo]. YOu should know this being an engineer is electrical balance or burn up, hello?

It is the distance the pistons must travel that matters and directly correlates to the distance the motorcycle itself covered on the ground.

Exactly. I drop a penny on top of the piston is call that energy/weight/wattever. The piston is going to drop so many feet per second. I drop a lead ball on top of the piston, do we see speed of the same stroke but travel plus energy sends the crank flying down faster is a speed event? Are we on the same page about time and speed plus distance? Do I have energy as the variable? So if I am at full throttle with this amount, how about this amount of energy? There is my piston speed per feet traveled.

I get your theory. Penultimate moves as if that oil tanker needed to move one foot.

---

If guys aren't happy with say...the Cflash,then change up your gearing a bit.I guarantee ya...you'll be VERY careful about how you apply throttle.If I added a gearing change with my C flash...IDK what would occur..but it would be very 'exciting' ...not that she isn't already;)In fact,that's just how she feels with his flash in there.Like it's been geared.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 7/19/2015 @ 8:02 AM *