Hub 4 was exactly what I was thinking. Re 2 I also wondered did they tell him before he just stopped by they pulled the head without removing the engine?

Granted 1 is per Kaw service manual and generally I'd say go by the book. But it surprised me engine needed to come out unless there were bottom side bolts or something. Seems fairly odd. Suppose it's like throttle bodies and removing valve cover it IS possible (as Rook demonstrated) to remove valve cover without removing tbs. Having done it a few times now pulling throttle bodies is a 5 minute ordeal out & in.

I spoke with the machinist. He expects to take a look at the head this week; been backlogged with other work. He has over 30 years of experiece going back to the Z1. I got a good feeling after talking with him that the head is in good hands. His first thoughts, other than this not making any sense, is the stem is mushroomed and/or the face/seat relationship is receeding. In either case he won't know until he disassembles the head and checks clearances. I will make a trip this week to his shop to see with my own eyes and hear his explanation.

The original estimate of $2k was based on pulling the head based on flat rate and service manual procedure complete from beginning to end. It was just a starting point to get the estimate started. The hourly rate, I believe, is $105/hr.

The carbon buildup on the pistons is even. My neighbor who is knowledgable in all things engines said it was nothing to be concerned about.

As always.... stay tuned. In the meantime I got my BMW running after more than 10 years of neglect. Need to sync the carbs today. Fun stuff, and much easier to work on than the ZX14.

Thanks for the update. Sounds like you will get competent work done but it might cost a bit. I'd rather pay more and know it's right.

thanks for the update, was wondering whats up. I hope its a valve that's the simplest fix, but while ya in there go for a ported and polished job too!

hell yeah!! Might as well! Make a bad thing a good thing!

Excellent idea guys. I could always use a few more horses. Let's see, if each member donates a dollar...
How do I establish a port 'n polish fund? Tax free of course.

if I knew, I'd keep that a secret.

Any updates?

Yes I finally have an update from the dealer and the machinist a few days ago. Been busy with hvac problems but that is for another time. Unfortunately it does not sound good. The machinist says that there is no excessive wear. Measurements show consistency for valve stems, heights, seats, buckets. I believe this means that all parts are consistent to each other. He does not see anything that would cause the location of the retainer on the valve to be dropped. Boy, I hope I am saying this right. I could quote but am not sure if that is proper according to site rules, nor would I want to anyways. Unfortunately he does not have factory specifications.

He did find three exhaust guides worn beyond tolerance; all on the air injector side of the cylinder. Something he has seen on other brands.

The dealer spoke with K; they suggested replacing all valve parts on the bad one and see what if anything changes.
We shall see. I'm wondering if the head may end up in K's hands for review or maybe a factory rep coming out to take a look.

I wish I had better news to share with you guys. The mystery continues. In the meantime I have the R100/7 cleaned up and running. Need tags and insurance. Oh yeah one more thing: 100 degree plus temps recently... riding is not on my list of things to do.

Stay tuned.

Thanks. It sounds like you got everyone's attention! Your bike is becoming famous!

1. Empty head = no cam cap towers needed.
2. Light spring = to hold another valve/keeper(s)/retainer.
3. Lay cam over bucket = do we have shim clearance?

That's how fast I'd gethishit done swapping (3 valves) parts back in that questionable hole.

I figured it would be back up and running at this point. Sounds like a bit of fuckery going on, but I'm sure at some point it'll get fixed.

Machinist isn't looking at something correctly, unless you've jedi mind tricked everyone. Sorry, parts don't do that and something doesn't add up. That's physics. For all you know, Kaw shipped it that way someone drank a little too much sake the night before and was like fuck it close enough.

Unfortunately he does not have factory specifications.

So how the fcuk dose he know whats what? The mechanical parts that stack up need to be carefully measured and compared to spec values. Machined parts, especially in these quantities of mass production, can be made out of spec and not caught in lot inspection. IDK if KHI even performs part lot inspections.

The shit I've seen on very high $$$$ machined parts with supposedly 100% dimensional inspection is proof that machine shops BS customers all of the time.

Been away for a bit. I had to go back and re-read the last few posts. These are not the valves you are looking for; if only it were that easy. Yes, the spec values would be nice to have but the manufacturer is not giving them out.

I have met and spoken with or emailed both the dealer lead technician and the machinest. I have confidence that they are more than qualified to resolve this issue. I do not believe either one is jerking me around. I appreciate you guys sharing your concerns with me and the rest of the members. I am just as frustrated as anyone else.. and it's MY bike!

Famous? Maybe this will be written up in a engineering journal of some sort. Have faith guys. I believe the answer to cause and solution is near.

Yeah it's tough none of us are in this situation except you. Shit like this always takes forever because of the $$$ involved, probably worse because of good will. I don't know what's worth it, buy a head off ebay for $700 slap it on there and go (lol not that's easy but you were basically there) or put up with this wishy washy garbage.

Shit like this concerns me, I have a little over 2 years left on my warrannty and wonder wtf I even paid for one for. Not that the engine might explode or something, just the fuckery of dealing with dealers/service in the first place.

I decided to not buy the warranty. I never do on anything. If something is going to fail it will probably fail soon after it goes into service. I think compsanies that sell extended warranties are betting with very little risk that their product will never require an extended warranty--otherwise they wouldn't offer it.

Actually I care less about the money and more about the pain in the ass it is to get service. I figured I was going to put some miles on the bike and have pretty well probably considered to average. Hell my '13 (which was bought in 14) has more mile's than this guy's 07!

It either made sense to buy no warranty (1 year standard) or 4 years. But then too, I'm not sure I like some of the bullshit warranty fine print. And it doesn't include things that they made it sound like it included "the bike" but it doesn't cover things like the battery... which I thought it actually did at purchase. Live and learn..probalby nextt time I won't buy one and the bike will explode at 366 days.

I decided to not buy the warranty. I never do on anything. If something is going to fail it will probably fail soon after it goes into service. I think compsanies that sell extended warranties are betting with very little risk that their product will never require an extended warranty--otherwise they wouldn't offer it.

Yeah from everything I've read extended warranties are EXTREMELY profitable ... which is why there are companies that just sell them. Apparently mostly what they do is sit back and collect cash.

Actually I care less about the money and more about the pain in the ass it is to get service.

TEN-FOUR on that.

UPDATE: The fix is being applied. The head is in the gentle hands of the machinist. The dealer changed out new parts on the problem valve and it came back to spec. Then he changed out one particular part (I won't say yet which one) and it was within spec. The shim is now ABOVE the retainer, as it should have been all along. So, that one part will be applied to ALL valves. Additionally three bad exhaust valve guides are being replaced.

We don't know why this part is bad; worn out? too easy of a breakin? too rough of a breakin? bad install?

Sooo, you wanna know what part is being replaced? Can we have some fun? I feel like playing the guesing game. For the past three years I have been teaching coworkers, two hours a week on how to do their jobs; programming techniques etc. I like to do this to them to see what they know. Take a guess with rationalization. There is no prize other than bragging rights.

Answer to follow which I am sure will include discussion on how, why, what went wrong!

I vote that the Dilithium crystals were transmorgified to the neumonic bypass port causing a rift on the event horizon at the saturation point. Oh, and they hemmed the piston skirts.

Mad

My guess is going to be part #12009 the upper spring retainer. Possibly machined wrong allowing the 2 #12011 keepers which lock the valve into said part to sink to far in.
Dave

* Last updated by: david5525 on 7/20/2017 @ 6:13 AM *

Right side fairings?

So KHI admitted fault and is replacing bad parts?? Think I may copy this entire thread into a word.docx and save it for when I check the BBW valves in about 2 yrs.

Thanks for the update, I suspected bad parts.

Valves. The groove the keeper fits in.

So KHI admitted fault and is replacing bad parts?? Think I may copy this entire thread into a word.docx and save it for when I check the BBW valves in about 2 yrs.

I didn't read that in this update. No where is anything said about fault or who's footing the bill. What I do see is discussion of the cause, which includes break-in talk or bad install. So if it's break-in, it's owner's fault if it's bad install? No one can be sure yet.

As far as the guessing game, I'm going with the retainer.