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Thread: Question for the motor guys

Created on: 07/11/11 05:54 AM

Replies: 17

Edgecrusher


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Question for the motor guys
07/11/11 5:54 AM

This is kinda a silly question I think, but I'm wondering, will oil only flow one way through an automotive oil filter??



RIP 08 Special ED ZX-14
2004 Electra-Glide Classic Peace Officer Black, Rineheart true-duals, HID with Hella headlight bucket, Goodridge SS brake lines, saving for DJ PowerVision FI controller and K&N large cap. kit.
2004 Suzuki Katana 750 (wife's but doesn't ride anymore) (fo sale), Hindle exhaust, K&N air, Dark metallic blue w/ blue led accent lighting.
1983 Suzuki GS750ES under construction(perpetually)

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bean07


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RE: Question for the motor guys
07/11/11 9:09 AM

NO Edge The big Center hole is where the contaminated oil goes through then to the outside through the filter than back out on the outside Small holes I think mate IMO



2006 CBR1100xx with a few mods + V Star 1300A Cobra swept exhaust,Fi2000 EFI,Big air kit, Rad cover/Guard,Forward controls/pegs,Pillion mini boards,screen,rack,Saddleman seat a few chrome bits.

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bean07


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RE: Question for the motor guys
07/11/11 9:10 AM

Hub im only guessing but what I just said would be right wouldn't it ?



2006 CBR1100xx with a few mods + V Star 1300A Cobra swept exhaust,Fi2000 EFI,Big air kit, Rad cover/Guard,Forward controls/pegs,Pillion mini boards,screen,rack,Saddleman seat a few chrome bits.

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bean07


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RE: Question for the motor guys
07/11/11 9:38 AM

OKY DOKE



2006 CBR1100xx with a few mods + V Star 1300A Cobra swept exhaust,Fi2000 EFI,Big air kit, Rad cover/Guard,Forward controls/pegs,Pillion mini boards,screen,rack,Saddleman seat a few chrome bits.

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bean07


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RE: Question for the motor guys
07/11/11 9:57 AM

That K&N OIL Filter with the tie wire "Safety Hole" is the one I've got with my 4 ltr Motul OIL That im gunna do just before I take her in for the 5000km service Hub ! Hopefully Soon after the 20th if my X ray turns out to be OK, i've also ordered a Map from Jeffo since I got rid of the Cat from the Header pipe!to save me paying to get her Re-dynoed anyway. it's 1.30 am Hub catch up with ya in about 7 hours (about 5 pm )if ya still on board here mate



2006 CBR1100xx with a few mods + V Star 1300A Cobra swept exhaust,Fi2000 EFI,Big air kit, Rad cover/Guard,Forward controls/pegs,Pillion mini boards,screen,rack,Saddleman seat a few chrome bits.

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Edgecrusher


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RE: Question for the motor guys
07/11/11 9:58 AM

NO Edge The big Center hole is where the contaminated oil goes through then to the outside through the filter than back out on the outside Small holes I think mate IMO

That's funny, I just got done reading a different forum where they described the dirty oil going in the center hole and filtered oil coming out the circumference holes. ? ?

I ask and posted in off-topic because I am actually speaking in respect to my '73 air-cooled Volkswagen motor. I had a problem with it over heating this past weekend and I am getting myself confused as to the flow of oil. I have a remote filter adapter coming off the ports that are supposed to feed a cooler inside the doghouse tins. The flow is supposed to go through the two transmission coolers I have mounted on the frame and then through the filter adapter and then back to the ports.
The adapter is labeled with "out" and "in" with "out" being on the outside and "in" being the center port. But from my research these labels do not actually refer to the flow but to the labels on the second adapter that is designed to go on on other engines with spin-on type filter locations. The oil line from my engine with pressure was going to the out on the filter and the center port on the filter was going to the return on the engine. That return line was dry BTW after the engine overheated which made me think I had the ports reversed to the filter and flow was being stopped there thus starving the engine?
Any further thoughts would be appreciated. I'm still unsure as to which port on the filter is the inlet(dirty), the center or outside??



RIP 08 Special ED ZX-14
2004 Electra-Glide Classic Peace Officer Black, Rineheart true-duals, HID with Hella headlight bucket, Goodridge SS brake lines, saving for DJ PowerVision FI controller and K&N large cap. kit.
2004 Suzuki Katana 750 (wife's but doesn't ride anymore) (fo sale), Hindle exhaust, K&N air, Dark metallic blue w/ blue led accent lighting.
1983 Suzuki GS750ES under construction(perpetually)

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Edgecrusher


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RE: Question for the motor guys
07/11/11 10:01 AM

Further research is telling me oil flows from the outside thru the media and out the center hole...,



RIP 08 Special ED ZX-14
2004 Electra-Glide Classic Peace Officer Black, Rineheart true-duals, HID with Hella headlight bucket, Goodridge SS brake lines, saving for DJ PowerVision FI controller and K&N large cap. kit.
2004 Suzuki Katana 750 (wife's but doesn't ride anymore) (fo sale), Hindle exhaust, K&N air, Dark metallic blue w/ blue led accent lighting.
1983 Suzuki GS750ES under construction(perpetually)

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Edgecrusher


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RE: Question for the motor guys
07/11/11 10:03 AM

If this is true then the filter was not the cause of the overheating problem....??



RIP 08 Special ED ZX-14
2004 Electra-Glide Classic Peace Officer Black, Rineheart true-duals, HID with Hella headlight bucket, Goodridge SS brake lines, saving for DJ PowerVision FI controller and K&N large cap. kit.
2004 Suzuki Katana 750 (wife's but doesn't ride anymore) (fo sale), Hindle exhaust, K&N air, Dark metallic blue w/ blue led accent lighting.
1983 Suzuki GS750ES under construction(perpetually)

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Hub


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RE: Question for the motor guys
07/11/11 11:43 AM

If you have a dry oil filter, you swapped lines. If it overheated and something is dry... OUCH! Hope you caught it in time. If the thing is not seized, sniff the oil first. She smell burned? Then if not, start it up with a loose filter spun on, meaning, you are going to start it up and if that oil is not coming out by the time you hear the engine start, shut it down.

Pan under filter... Key it on... Vroom-Vroom-KILL! Any oil in the pan? Remember, no oil to the lower end that gets fed first [some engines are fed at the top end and then feed the bottom end = A shovelhead harley for example. Where is the oil pressure galley hole for pressure checks? Screw a gauge in that hole and wait for pressure within 3 seconds or less and that is too long.



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Edgecrusher


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RE: Question for the motor guys
07/11/11 12:57 PM

That's one of my beefs! I can't find a good enough diagram of the route the oil takes on it's way throught the Type 1 VW engine. I'm gonna play with it some more tonight and get back with ya tomorrow.

The only thing I know at this point for sure is I still have oil flowing. Maybe those oil coolers I bypassed really were doing their jobs. ATM the motor will start fine like it always has but there is a metalic sound coming from the right side which makes me not want to run it so I'll pop the valve cover and see if I find anything. I have a feeling the pushrods wore into the tappets and caused the valve train to slop out. I would think if the valve guides were damaged I'd be seeing smoke (eventually) and also if the rings broke....


to be continued...



RIP 08 Special ED ZX-14
2004 Electra-Glide Classic Peace Officer Black, Rineheart true-duals, HID with Hella headlight bucket, Goodridge SS brake lines, saving for DJ PowerVision FI controller and K&N large cap. kit.
2004 Suzuki Katana 750 (wife's but doesn't ride anymore) (fo sale), Hindle exhaust, K&N air, Dark metallic blue w/ blue led accent lighting.
1983 Suzuki GS750ES under construction(perpetually)

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Edgecrusher


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RE: Question for the motor guys
07/12/11 10:11 AM

Incase anyone was curious. I checked the valves which were fine. I checked the compression. Front two cylinders are low 60 and 80 and the back two around the minimum 100psi typical of a 40 year old engine I'd say but not adequate. Oil pressure adequate. Just when I think she's good to go I take it for a test ride after letting it warm up for a few minutes. Sounds like a bag of nuts in the cylinders. Thinking the rod bearings are bad. Result = engine is done. Time for something else. Perhaps a Subaru conversion. Like I got a couple grand just laying around for this chit! son of a....



RIP 08 Special ED ZX-14
2004 Electra-Glide Classic Peace Officer Black, Rineheart true-duals, HID with Hella headlight bucket, Goodridge SS brake lines, saving for DJ PowerVision FI controller and K&N large cap. kit.
2004 Suzuki Katana 750 (wife's but doesn't ride anymore) (fo sale), Hindle exhaust, K&N air, Dark metallic blue w/ blue led accent lighting.
1983 Suzuki GS750ES under construction(perpetually)

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Edgecrusher


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RE: Question for the motor guys
07/12/11 10:13 AM

Maybe I can find someone interested in trading a Bass boat for a heavy duty buggy with some motor work? lol



RIP 08 Special ED ZX-14
2004 Electra-Glide Classic Peace Officer Black, Rineheart true-duals, HID with Hella headlight bucket, Goodridge SS brake lines, saving for DJ PowerVision FI controller and K&N large cap. kit.
2004 Suzuki Katana 750 (wife's but doesn't ride anymore) (fo sale), Hindle exhaust, K&N air, Dark metallic blue w/ blue led accent lighting.
1983 Suzuki GS750ES under construction(perpetually)

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Hub


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RE: Question for the motor guys
07/12/11 11:44 AM

60-80-100 PSI Averages vs. the 10% Rule.

100 vs. 80 = 12.50% is 2.50% over the 10% window of rebuild

100 vs. 60 = 60% down of 40% is who cares about the math.

100 vs. 90 = 10% tear it down she is done.

100 vs. 9% in leak down, above was hand held compression readings. This says 90 is that 9 in leak is still a 10% weak cylinder we have a poor idle, poor old slide is going to be pulled more up to compensate than the better cylinders. That's carb sync or throttle body sync who cares.

That single carb is still going to pulse a bad idle or not a smooth idle. And you are right, if you can work some bike back together, then do the same with a car... We need to pull the plugs next time. Easier on the starter. We want to static prime the oil system. That means we rebuilt the engine from the ground up. Threw in the oil and tumbled that engine in all sorts of positions you wish you could do that to a car engine.

We just accomplished the splash shuffle tumble. Hope we tumbled a lot of oil like now hand crank it upside down kind of already greased the shit out of the bearings so that has plenty of coating on it. Couple of 360's upside down and have the walls all pistons didn't need that kind of oil up top so I dry assemble knowing I'll tumble the 4 quarts in there upside down and side ways.

All that shit before it goes into the frame. Then we run down the street in top gear plugs out. With the turkey pan under the oil filter, I'm watching for that oil to come see me at the corner, I now have a hand primed, I got my lines right, no 3000 rpm that can burn the shit out of an engine within seconds, not a run down the street under I haven't a clue if that is 140 revs in a minute times 3000 fast ones?

So in engine theory 101 under motor guy 2.2, it is never a gas start to prime but a toe stepping messing with the oil prime. So, if you run a half a block or less and that filter hole is pushing into the filter, I think you got the lines correct, not crossed. And yeah, buy a few cases because you need some buddies over to push the next car down the road and back. Unless you have a battery charger and a good battery to turn that new engine over a few times is the charm.

Yes, boobie, you are hearing the lower end is my guess as you described. The pistons may have been treated to a splash lube but that heat at the top end was getting dry so it has to travel into that wall somehow. And before I forget... Whatever you buy next, bring your compression tester. If the seller refuses and you buy a 10%'er that needs work... Better buy it at a steal or get those numbers and pay his price kind of Catch22 on both your ass is.



Tormenting the motorcycling community one post at a time

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Edgecrusher


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RE: Question for the motor guys
07/13/11 8:52 AM

Well thankfully, Hub, the VW boxer is easy to roll around, just a tad heavier (lol). After a few days of drooling over F.I. Subaru transplants with two or three times the HP stock and even chain driven monsters that no one seems to want to show how they're put together, and all the money that goes with such things... I've decided that rebuilding the present 1600cc Dual Port would be a better choice as far as me ever being able to afford to do this any time soon. I can get piston and cylinder kits for between $200-350 for any displacement 1600-2200cc's plus the extras that go along with the task. A decent Subaru conversion, while looking badass and increasing HP more reliably than any VW can, will cost 2-4K$$ upfront and then all the monkeying around that goes with that.

Vw engine, from what I've read, can be very tricky to rebuild because of the tolerances between the cases (no gasket), but I think that was said by someone who hadn't rebuilt a motorcycle engine yet which I have. The price of a 2200cc kit is relatively the same as a 1600cc kit so upgrading is a no brainer but find the other components that will have to be beefed up in the process will be some work in research. Also have to find a competent machinist familiar with VW's to machine the cases for the bigger cylinders and relief cuts. Then there's also the matter of my simple type 1 transaxle that may not survive more horsepower but that's a whole nother can o worms I won't worry about now.

So I guess it's time to learn more about building my bug engine!



RIP 08 Special ED ZX-14
2004 Electra-Glide Classic Peace Officer Black, Rineheart true-duals, HID with Hella headlight bucket, Goodridge SS brake lines, saving for DJ PowerVision FI controller and K&N large cap. kit.
2004 Suzuki Katana 750 (wife's but doesn't ride anymore) (fo sale), Hindle exhaust, K&N air, Dark metallic blue w/ blue led accent lighting.
1983 Suzuki GS750ES under construction(perpetually)

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Hub


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RE: Question for the motor guys
07/13/11 9:53 AM

Glad you made that move:

1. You have the car already.
2. Bugs have parts in the aftermarket it goes together fast.
3. Cheap engine build 101 go for it.
4. You already know the engine family so it gets easier each time is more a piece of cake not where does this part go?
5. Not only that, but back to 2.0 of the engine build; you get to understand more about the 4-strokes that apply to the bike/boat/lawnmower kind of you get the idea you are too much of a sucker so it's there waiting.
6. You get to see what you fuckdup and learn what caused what like work the forensics. That builds the next time in the mental toolbox.
7. You're a glutton for punishment. Next day you walk away. The thoughts go... Maybe it's not so bad. Let me go look.
8. Bug is worth more... It's a dub.
9. Then you sink more in it than it's worth.
10. Nope. Gotta think the cheapest school going is a busted engine in the garage; get to it!



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Edgecrusher


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RE: Question for the motor guys
07/13/11 10:35 AM

had her since she was a tadpole

looks good on the trailer

which is good because most of her life is spent there

been to the dunes once and she cried the whole time

more a street/woods lover



RIP 08 Special ED ZX-14
2004 Electra-Glide Classic Peace Officer Black, Rineheart true-duals, HID with Hella headlight bucket, Goodridge SS brake lines, saving for DJ PowerVision FI controller and K&N large cap. kit.
2004 Suzuki Katana 750 (wife's but doesn't ride anymore) (fo sale), Hindle exhaust, K&N air, Dark metallic blue w/ blue led accent lighting.
1983 Suzuki GS750ES under construction(perpetually)

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Edgecrusher


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Posts: 1272

RE: Question for the motor guys
07/14/11 4:53 AM

will do when it's turn is up, thanks for the interest.



RIP 08 Special ED ZX-14
2004 Electra-Glide Classic Peace Officer Black, Rineheart true-duals, HID with Hella headlight bucket, Goodridge SS brake lines, saving for DJ PowerVision FI controller and K&N large cap. kit.
2004 Suzuki Katana 750 (wife's but doesn't ride anymore) (fo sale), Hindle exhaust, K&N air, Dark metallic blue w/ blue led accent lighting.
1983 Suzuki GS750ES under construction(perpetually)

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Rook


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RE: Question for the motor guys
07/14/11 12:12 PM

Cool bug!



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE Now Deceased

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