Yanni, thanks for the heads up. Thinking about flashing in the future, and given the talk on these forums, tempted to ship mine US. I have a well reputed performance bike shop close by I might talk to. I could not self analyse any problems like you needed to so would like to be able to talk directly to the tuner.

* Last updated by: AussieZX on 6/29/2015 @ 3:20 PM *

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Romans took a lot of unnecessary heat for that issue. He's a great standup guy and I have a lot of respect for him and his work.

You know the line in top gun? "So you're the one." Romes took a lot of heat? Am I to assume WATT comes around, goes around? That would be ironic.

My story:
I'm a novice mechanic, have no clue about british bikes, put something together wrong and the one guy that fixed it; said I screwed it up to my face he won't let me live it down every time I saw him. He was right. Beginner mistake I should have known the bike? But see, that's the learning curve. No different today is this situation. So the discipline was to have no comebacks and take the heat for it? I could count on my hands the comebacks of thousands of bikes needing this or that, out of the crate; not one bolt loose, something out of place, running bad, yada.

That was more or less me needing a return customer, a word of mouth customer, I better not harm/kill this person I am now the holder of his parts falling off or not. So you took that bike as a jet plane with a pilot that is coming back and it's not going to be you looking at me to take any heat I fucup.

30 yrs go by I know for sure I run into that guy, he will bring it up to my face... FOREVER.

Moral of the story?
I rather have a foundation of british racing greenose instead, but oh well, I do wear it well. "You're gonna love how you look."

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Hub... Where are the flash schools? Really? My point is all these people go out and buy flashers with 0 credentials and start flashing ECU's.... Then when it takes a shit they don't know how to fix it.
I was PM'ed with the flash suppliers name and the funny thing is I called him out on it 6/10/14... So in other words I was dead on my guess.... Someone with no credentials flashed his ecu and caused him an issue, enough said.
Ok Hub, carry on with the gibberish.....

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If you read carefully, you can figger out who it was.

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Ivan and Don Guhl have no reported problems that I have seen to date with flashing. Only "tuners" using Woolich software from time to time. Why?

Ivan and Don Guhl have no reported problems that I have seen to date with flashing. Only "tuners" using Woolich software from time to time. Why?

Exactly my point......

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Well, the opportunity was open for all flash providers to come forth and contribute here.
To put forward their cases.
To advise the good, the bad and the ugly.
To let all know what service they supply, the positives to be gained, the risks involved, and their policy should an issue arise.
To show enough confidence in their product to admit when things have not gone to plan and the resolutions provided.

But sometimes silence is deafening.

To this stage, only one flasher has taken the time to respond with what seems to me to be complete honesty.

I do not write this to point fingers or disrespect anyone.
I simply am stating the facts.

You make your own conclusions...

* Last updated by: yannih on 7/2/2015 @ 10:24 AM *

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I'm leaning toward flash YES but a custom tune/flash is always going to be best. Unfortunately, there's always going to problems that crop up no matter what service you provide. Every customer is different. Unfortunately, you had some needs most customers don't have. Glad you have it sorted now. How's your assesment of the Aussie flash? Better, same, ??? Looks like Vic is a little underwhelmed but most seem to love a flash.

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And I'm leaning the opposite way, Rook ... toward no flash:

- Ain't cheap
- Could be problems
- Could be expensive problems
- No guarantee of performance gains
- No guarantee of no performance loss
- This bike is already very, very fast

And I've done no extensive research, but Vic has provided convincing evidence on the negative side, whereas the positive sides I've encountered have so far only been 'butt dyno' reactions. I'd love to see some convincing figures to the positive side.

* Last updated by: extrapolator on 7/2/2015 @ 2:26 PM *

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My two cents -
There is no way I would ever do a canned flash (especially for fueling) unless it came from a vetted and historically credible source. I’m not talking hearsay credible, but from someone who has both proven racing and engine building experience.
I would do (and did) a PCV and Woolich combination that would let you change fuel and non-fuel attributes completely independently of each other. Also, there are more PCV tuners than any others. I like Woolich’s simple ability to modify safety, flies, and other restrictions. If you don’t like it then simply reverse it.

probably best deal with least chance on bricking up your ECU is the Schnitz flash for $75. It doesn't touch fuel or timing but eliminates the limiters in the 14r. With that said, mine had to go back because it didn't work the first time. Schnitz said no worries 1 in 40 don't take the first time, worked after the 2nd reflash but I'm left with a nagging doubt in my mind whether my ECU is OK or not. I am going to send it to Romans to have it checked.

Do you need a flash? Heck no unless you want to go land speed racing, have to get rid of that top speed limiter. For drag racing too, do you want to blow a run hitting the hidden safety mode? If you aren't really racing the bike you probably don't need a flash. BUT, if we went by need we wouldn't have bought a zx14.

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Schnitz is great if your on a budget or watching finances.... It really comes down to how much performance you want out of your bike. Do you need it??? Probably not, these things are ridiculously fast out of the crate... my preference is Ivan's flash, Ivan's map & auto tune for the win.... The low power mode kicks in too much for my liking, not to mention its actually "smoother" with Ivan's flash.... I owe Ivan nothing and paid for his flash after I had a free flash from ECUnleashed. Have you ever used a product that you thought was so great that you wanted to share with everyone? Well that is exactly how I feel about Ivan's flash....

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And I'm leaning the opposite way, Rook ... toward no flash:
- Ain't cheap
- Could be problems
- Could be expensive problems
- No guarantee of performance gains
- No guarantee of no performance loss
- This bike is already very, very fast

The old way of tuning with modules could be all of the above but now, the risk choices are out of your hands completely. Something going wrong with the ECU is a new risk. I'm sure the tuning is within safe boundaries but no telling what might happen to the ECU. Like the preceding comments explain, if you want the ultimate, a combination of flash and modules is best and add to that "used ECU". It's the same old game. SPend big money spend lots of time. The flash is just the latest tool but I don't see it as simplifying anything if you really want the most out of your bike. If you are happy with your bike as is, another 6 or 7 hp isn't going to be all that much faster anyway. I guess I'll see for myself when I start my tuning education later this summer.

- This bike is already very, very fast

Agreed. Most of us don't a single hp mod. It's part of the fun but need? Not really.

* Last updated by: Rook on 7/2/2015 @ 11:09 PM *

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Anyone flashing these bikes except myself,unleashed, and Don are using Wooly boxes and software.

Changing the format of the original file so it works only in your software so you can control who uses it is part of the problems. The other problems come from interface boxes that are improperly designed And can physically damage board components.

Anyone who uses it is handcuffed to all the limitations and problems associated with it.

That's why I don't have any problems with damaged ECU'S and I suspect that Don doesn't either.

We both have our own software / hardware.

We both do not alter the file in any way.

I have never had any problems with any ECU that I have reprogrammed.

Ivan

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Yannih, thank you for the valuable information.
First please excuse me for my poor English .
I am a frequent visitor to the site of zx1441r.com. I followed many of smokinzx14 work which inspired me to modify my bike. I am about to post my problem there ?hoping to mount a camera to shot a video of my problem , but that will cause me many more problems like how to upload my video to the site, how to mount a camera ...etc , how to begin a post to describe my problem properly in English so that you could understand what I am saying...ha ha! and I am really busy. .... So fortunate I saw your post which through the link of Kofla post on Wheelie,'s Having your Ecuador flashed? You could be in for a surprise?
Mine is a 2012 zx14r bought in Taiwan. Happened to be a California spec because it has a emissions canisters . But also a O2 sensor according to my mechanic
My mode took the order of-- stock bike stock exhaust , Brock 2 flash with PCV. I found out that after Brock 2 flash ,with or without PCV, the bike run perfect. Then I ordered a Brock full titanium dual exhaust with quiet core. It has no place to plug the O2 sensor so I leave the O2 sensor there ( do not unplug the whole O2 sensor from the bike) as suggested by Brock's customers service. The bike have the problem as Yannih had. Bike stumble at around 4k rpm of gear 4,5,6 only. run Ok above 4k rpm of gear . I posted my question at Brock's site and even phone the customer service, the guy could not understand what I said over the phone....on their site I wrote my problem : they reply that the bike stutter if changing the rear sprocket ( might be due to they did not comprehend what I was writing to describe my problem ) ,they said I should plug the left PAIR hose ....(which I actually did wrong the first time by plugging the right ) . That make me felt that the fault is mine. Due to the fact that I am not very familiar with mechanic (this is only my second sport bike after the 2008 zx14 I replaced. ) I thought this happened because I have the full exhaust system - my mechanic told me that I will be loosing power at low rpm due to the exhaust, yeah I thought may be that is the norm of full system (I actually have no idea not knowing anyone doing the same mode here in Kaohsiung , Taiwan) because bike work well with stock exhaust with O2 sensor plugged. Though I still sense that there must be something wrong.. this is very annoying that I try to solve this by ordered Brock's air filter, changed spark plug , unplug PCV , add fuel cleaner hoping to solve the problem but in vain. I accidentally found a less perfect solution for this. I will hold on my throttle at around 3k-4k rpm at gear 4 and let the bike stutter for about several hundred meters ( that really draw attention from other road user when I performed this routine ...)before the bike act like it is going to choke to die it run smooth again. I thought the bike recalibrate itself or shift to other ECU map or something I do not know. After this manuever there is no stutter for gear 4,5,6 anymore. I have no idea after recalibrate by its own the bike is gaining any horsepower compare to stock but I believe it is not. I have no access to dyno , I am not a drag racer I do not race, so I have no idea how better the acceleration compare to stock form. the only feature better is I can do past 300km/hr instead of limiter max speed of 299km/hr. Smoother acceleration midrange due to early opening of secondary . That feature already exist with ECU flash with the stock pipe. I purely enjoy a powerful machine and wish to be different and slightly more powerful to local zx14r if I met one (yeah you might call this a bragging right but to each his own right?) I will leave this matter as it is because sometime in the future I will sell this bike , put it into stock form and believe the problem will not exist with stock pipe and sell the titanium pipe separately . That will be another story...

My questions are
1: if yannih is right, then the problem will be solve if I unplugged the O2 sensor from the bike, with only downside of warning light flashing on Dashboard due to missing O2 sensor? Note that currently I leave my O2 sensor there -did not plug it into the exhaust but the problem exists. No error code flashing on the dashboard
2: if I use an O2 optimiser from dynojet then the problem will be solved too?
3: if I send back to Brock the problem will likely not be solved as yannih already flash his twice right? Will it take the risk of doing worse ...
4: I actually think one option is to leave it this way by performing a routine manuever every time I ride the bike . But I believe this will build carbon in my combustion chamber for pig rich fuel. - my mechanic said thick carbon from my pipe proved incomplete burning of fuel.- could someone tell me after the manuever the bike perform better ? This I have no idea cause I do not know how to compare. No dyno , no new stock ECU...
5: what better option do you think I have?
Sorry for the lengthy post.

?hoping to mount a camera to shot a video of my problem , but that will cause me many more problems like how to upload my video to the site, how to mount a camera ...etc , how to begin a post to describe my problem properly in English so that you could understand what I am saying...ha ha!

HA?! I can write englishithelllikeveryday, know my way around the computer, how do I begin to post my video and oh, I can't show you my bike in front of a highway sign in said ti a yellow ribbon around your fill in the blank or just write someone, put it on your bike, figure that pic posting step and maybe this first post is legit is what I'm saying...ha ha?

Happened to be a California spec because it has a emissions canisters . But also a O2 sensor according to my mechanic

Sounds strange that an import is a western spec, can't count the nipples on the back of the tank and know the diff, plus the mech bends over, looks at an 02 and it's not some pc autotune kit, but the OE??? Something is not being put together is you have the same mechanics over here as over there ha ha ha!!

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Hub ,
I agree with you. No pic, no vid no truth. Yeah I probably have to get a video, make a mount on the bike to catch it to prove it to you. Let me see how much time it take me to do this. Probably took me several days....
Well I don't see yannih vid ....but I believe I still have all my receipts with me when I made all the purchase from Brock . And the problem I have is the same as yannih. Believe me or not, I don't care. While waiting some other with solution I will try to unplug the O2 sensor first..and see if the problem solve , and I could tolerate the flashing code on dashboard , one step at a time. Or any suggestions ?

The other problems come from interface boxes that are improperly designed And can physically damage board components.

I think I've seen the same exact box used for harley or twin type programming. Justin has to come clean and say, 'I outsourced that interface box,' which now says that box is bulletproof. And if it's a generic box for any type download, meaning, Justin uses it, this ign tuning company uses it? So if I am write, whatever your write, Romes says he has flashed that one ECU how many times no brick?

Anyone who uses it is handcuffed to all the limitations and problems associated with it.

And I have yet to toggle the 'filter' radio clicks and figure out those, does yours have the same 'filter program?'

That's why I don't have any problems with damaged ECU'S and I suspect that Don doesn't either.

Back to Don saying how many bricks are on his shelf. That leaves you out, Don and Justin in the line of sight, and they need to fire off the lips. And Justin should know of all the units he's sold, how many bricks has Justin caused, or is it the flasher not knowing procedure? Romes has a few bricks, but who are we going to point this at? The software that is that brick maker, or the flasher making a wrong move?

We both have our own software / hardware.

Well, how many bricks have you brought back to life with your software?

We both do not alter the file in any way.

Hello? The files are hidden? I first need to write code? My code is, here pops up a program. I have a radio click here, I've laid out a map with cells. That to me is code, or how I built the interface. You changing a number on a cell block is not altering the coding in the software. If it's going to calc that number and if it does not compute, out she goes and here is the replacement number in 'A' for alpha-numeric or a-N is this 'method' you just kicked in.

I have never had any problems with any ECU that I have reprogrammed.

That means, any year, any gen, and euro spec, no 02 disabled [disconnected meaning], or we are back to being in method; sensor down. No bike (west/euro) is sold without an 02 or atmo sensor plugged into that closed loop, or open, it still uses said sensors or limp she goes; something is unplugged-wire out hanging in the air-or signal out of range, I guarantee it.

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Well I don't see yannih vid

See yannih and his photo under his name?... No vid required. Yes, unplug and live with the dash flashing.

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Ivan, you have the worst designed website in the history of the planet, and.............(3 second pause)......you still haven't figured out how to use email lol!

So now all of a sudden right out of the blue you are a computer flashing expert with your own designed hardware? LMAO!

You may be an experienced tuner, I give you that, but your computer skill sucks along with your customer service skills.

* Last updated by: boxtradamus on 7/4/2015 @ 1:06 PM *

My questions are
1: if yannih is right, then the problem will be solve if I unplugged the O2 sensor from the bike, with only downside of warning light flashing on Dashboard due to missing O2 sensor? Note that currently I leave my O2 sensor there -did not plug it into the exhaust but the problem exists. No error code flashing on the dashboard
2: if I use an O2 optimiser from dynojet then the problem will be solved too?
3: if I send back to Brock the problem will likely not be solved as yannih already flash his twice right? Will it take the risk of doing worse ...
4: I actually think one option is to leave it this way by performing a routine manuever every time I ride the bike . But I believe this will build carbon in my combustion chamber for pig rich fuel. - my mechanic said thick carbon from my pipe proved incomplete burning of fuel.- could someone tell me after the manuever the bike perform better ? This I have no idea cause I do not know how to compare. No dyno , no new stock ECU...
5: what better option do you think I have?
Sorry for the lengthy post.

I chime in because I was involved with a mates bike which did exactly the same. How ever his, mine and Yannih's bike are Euro spec. We do however have the O2 sensor. I must give Romans the credit here for the solution. He suggested we unplug the sensor.
If you unplug the O2 sensor does the yellow error light on the clocks come on? When I unplugged it after the flash we got no error light.
With the optimiser plugged in it still jerked, so I don't believe you will find a solution there. I also can't believe riding with the O2 sensor plugged in but not inserted into the exhaust can be good. The other option is to have a bung welded onto the exhaust so you can mount the O2 sensor.
First unplug and see what happens.
Also speak to Romans he has a lot of experience and is willing to share that info.

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probably best deal with least chance on bricking up your ECU is the Schnitz flash for $75. It doesn't touch fuel or timing but eliminates the limiters in the 14r. With that said, mine had to go back because it didn't work the first time. Schnitz said no worries 1 in 40 don't take the first time, worked after the 2nd reflash but I'm left with a nagging doubt in my mind whether my ECU is OK or not. I am going to send it to Romans to have it checked.

ToledoUPSguy- So now I ask the million dollar question. (And only out of curiosity) You had the restrictions etc removed but no maps were touched. Was there any difference. I understand it's only your opinion and no conclusive testing has been done?

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I do have fuel maps with the brocks maps but I don't have the added HP from extra timing. I do know for sure this motor has never rattled on shell 89 gas but the 2012 did with added timing from the brock/guhl flash 2.
I have not noticed any of the arms yanked off unleashed beast with the Schnitz flash and I'm guessing that is because he isn't opening the flys till 4k.

I do know for sure the top speed limiter is gone sinceI ran (only) 195mph at the Ohio mile.

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Thank you Untamed
You probably save me the route of buying O2 optimiser from US .
Currently I leave the O2 sensor on the air. I always do the manuever I wrote above before I ride the bike aggressively. The bike run smoothly after the manuever. I will try to see if I unplug the O2 sensor , will I fell the bike perform better than the condition which I done the manuever (unfortunately I have no access to dyno nearby) . Seem like drilling a hole on the cap of Brock's titanium pipe and plug the O2 sensor is a good option. I will choose the best performance I get from each options. If performance difference I sensed is too small after I done each option , I will choose to stick to the plan of leaving my bike the way it was, and performed the weird manuever every time I ride the bike.
Just wonder did anyone try my manuever and see the difference of performance?
And I believe there is a third spec of ZX14R to date. The Taiwan spec is with co2 canister like US California spec but with O2 sensor.

Hi lee, Im no mechanic but I'll try and answer from my experience.
Again, Im sure the boys here will correct me if Im wrong.

1: if yannih is right, then the problem will be solve if I unplugged the O2 sensor from the bike, with only downside of warning light flashing on Dashboard due to missing O2 sensor? Note that currently I leave my O2 sensor there -did not plug it into the exhaust but the problem exists. No error code flashing on the dashboard.
IN YOUR CURRENT SITUATION WITH THE O2 SENSOR DISCONNECTED FROM YOUR EXHAUST BUT STILL CONNECTED TO THE WIRING CONNECTOR, THE BIKE WILL STILL HESITATE IN GEARS 4, 5 AND 6 AT AROUND 3500 - 4500RPM WITH NO DASH CODE. IF YOU UNPLUG THE O2 SENSOR FROM THE WIRING CONNECTOR THE ISSUE WILL STOP AND THE BIKE WILL THEN RUN SMOOTHLY. IF YOUR CURRENT FLASH HAS PROVISION FOR DISARMING THE RESULTING DASH CODE AND IT IS SELECTED YOU WILL HAVE NO CODE. IF YOUR FLASH HAS NO PROVISION OR IT HAS NOT BEEN NOT SELECTED BY YOUR FLASHER, YOU WILL HAVE THE DASH CODE. IF YOU ARE RUNNING A POWER COMMANDER YOU WILL HAVE THE DASH CODE REGARDLESS. THIS IS WHERE O2 ELIMINATORS OR OPTIMISORS COME INTO PLAY TO REMOVE THE CODE.

2: if I use an O2 optimiser from dynojet then the problem will be solved too?
I AM NOT TOO FAMILIAR WITH THE O2 OPTIMISORS BUT UNDERSTAND THAT ON SOME YEAR MODELS AN O2 ELIMINATOR CAN BE USED AND SOME AN O2 OPTIMISER MUST BE USED INSTEAD (SEE LINK "Flat spot 3-4k" IN ONE OF MY PREVIOUS POSTS ON THIS THREAD FOR MORE INFORMATION) BUT BOTH SIMPLY STOP THE DASH CODE OCCURRING WHEN THE O2 SENSOR IS DISCONNECTED FROM THE WIRING CONNECTOR.

3: if I send back to Brock the problem will likely not be solved as yannih already flash his twice right? Will it take the risk of doing worse ...
MY UNDERSTANDING IS WHILE THE THE O2 SENSOR IS CONNECTED IT WILL OVERRIDE ANY FUELING PROVIDED FROM A FLASH OR POWER COMMANDER. THEREFORE RETURNING FOR A REFLASH WILL RESOLVE NOTHING NO MATTER WHAT THEY CHANGE. IF YOU USE A POWER COMMANDER OR YOUR ECU IS FLASHED YOU MUST DISCONNECT THE O2 SENSOR. IF YOU HAVE A POWER COMMANDER YOU NEED AN O2 ELIMINATOR OR OPTIMISOR TO STOP THE DASH CODE. SAME IF YOU HAVE A FLASH WHERE THE CODE HASN'T BEEN DISABLED WITHIN THE FLASH.

4: I actually think one option is to leave it this way by performing a routine manuever every time I ride the bike . But I believe this will build carbon in my combustion chamber for pig rich fuel. - my mechanic said thick carbon from my pipe proved incomplete burning of fuel.- could someone tell me after the manuever the bike perform better ? This I have no idea cause I do not know how to compare. No dyno , no new stock ECU...
I DIDN'T TRY YOUR MANEUVER WHEN I HAD THE SAME ISSUE AS I WANTED THE BIKE FIXED, RIGHT AND RUNNING AS IT SHOULD WITHOUT ME WORRYING ABOUT HAVING TO PERFORM THIS OR THAT WHILE RIDING TO CORRECT. ESPECIALLY THINGS THAT THE BIKE WASNT DESIGNED FOR. I DONT KNOW WHAT MAY RESET, AND I DONT KNOW IF PERFORMANCE IS SOMEHOW IMPROVED AFTER YOUR MANEUVER, BUT I DEFINITELY WOULDN'T RECOMMEND IT. THE BIKE HESITATING IS ITS WAY OF TELLING YOU SOMETHING IS NOT RIGHT AND NEEDS RESOLUTION. LISTEN TO IT AND YOUR MECHANIC OR YOU MAY HAVE MORE SERIOUS ISSUES IN THE FUTURE.

5: what better option do you think I have?
I DONT THINK YOU HAVE ANY. MAKE YOUR CHOICE. BACK TO STOCK WITH O2 SENSOR CONNECTED, OR EITHER FLASH / POWER COMMANDER OR BOTH WITH O2 SENSOR DISCONNECTED WITH APPROPRIATE O2 ELIMINATOR / O2 OPTIMISOR OR FLASH SETTING TO STOP THE RESULTING DASH CODE.

My bike now runs perfectly after a lot of help from experienced people, research and time plus effort.
The resolutions are here if you choose to use them.
It's up to you.

Hope this helps...

* Last updated by: yannih on 7/6/2015 @ 6:39 AM *

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