That can be a letdown. I've only been to one track and one of the track day riding supervisors is very strict. I got my ass chewed for a simple misunderstanding of his hand signals. That was very embarrassiing and intimidating for a first time track day. I guess it got the message across though. He also encouraged me to slow down and focus on keeping to the best line. That along with purposely going slow on the straightaways to allow others to pass made for a pretty expensive and disappointing day compared to the previous experience. That's why I said before "screw everyone and ride the way you ride." If the other riders will pay your track fee or let you use their bike, then you owe them something but not on your own money.

Agree on the ride like you want. For me, that's a life rule although not to the extent that what I want should impede others.

As far as the screw up I can totally relate to that. I've had similar things happen a few times. One time I went to a gun range with some friends. None of us had been there before. There was a small office to pay. I volunteered to stay outside with our guns while they went inside and paid (for me too) since I had been to other ranges. One of the guns I brought was a cheap 22.

The range master goes over the rules when you pay. I asked my friends how it worked and they give me a quick overview. I forget exactly but it was like 10 minutes firing, then the range shut down for 10 minutes or something so people could clean up and change targets.

Other than that no one told me things until they were pertinent. For example, during the down time guns cannot be loaded with clips. During firing time you cannot move firearms from the firing area to the bench area, that sort of thing. Fine makes sense except as I said no one said anything until the last second "hey you better get your gun up there" "don't load your gun" etc. No problem.

A round I decided to fire my 22. Putting rounds through. Well it's a cheap 22. Not really fun to shoot particularly. What is fun is to put in one of the larger clips and cut loose. I'm not really cutting loose (still aiming) but probably firing once every second.

All the sudden I notice everyone putting their guns down and stepping back out of the firing area. I really don't know what's going on but I knew the time wasn't up. Then I start to notice the red flashers (like old police lights) flashing up and down the range and the range master starts blowing an air horn and whistle. I pick up on what's going on (that firing should stop)... but didn't really know. He's uses his PA and in a very drill sargent like fashion is like "STALL 22, RAPID FIRING IS NOT PERMITTED ON THIS RANGE. IF YOU CONTINUE YOU WILL BE ESCORTED OFF THE PROPERTY". I'm still standing at the firing area where as everyone all up and down the range has stepped back to the bench area...

So my friends had failed to tell me about any of these rules. It turned out OK. After a couple more firing sessions the range master stopped down and said that he knew I hadn't been given the rules since he goes over them when we pay. I was respectful and that sort of thing. I certainly understood safety is first. It was my fault for assumming I'd be ok based on my general knowledge of firearm safety and prior range experience (not much but a few times).

Well, mostly flatish but perfectly flat like in AZ is only a mile here and a mile there and those roads will typically be totally straight. Limited as they are, I think the roads are the least concern. I could ride them faster if it weren't for my fear of cops, oncoming traffic, farm equipment traffic and animals in the road.

There's a difference between roads that aren't straight and twisties. Do you have twisties or roads with curves that you'd have to sustain about 150 mph to get any thrill out of? Some areas there's roads that wind through hills and mountains, no houses, about no traffic, and that sort of thing. The 150 mph roads are about my options here, which I'm not willing to do. Some high speed blast and stuff yes, but there's no way I'd go out some two lane highway and sustain 160 mph for 20 miles. I find more interesting places to ride but they have their own inherit risks too.

Do you have twisties or roads with curves that you'd have to sustain about 150 mph to get any thrill out of?

Ya same here. Big ass curves that take about 9 seconds to go through at 90 mph. I'm sure I could safely take them at 130 but then the visibility through the corner risk becomes profound. What if someone is stopped on the road, what if there's a deer or slow moving truck?? What if I did crash at that speed? What would I hit?

I find more interesting places to ride but they have their own inherit risks too.

Yea same here. I like a couple roads I can take corners at 70 pretty easy. I could work up to 90, I'm sure but then there are driveways + all the hazards of the bigger roads. I know of a couple S curves I like to go into almost from a stop and come out of 100 mph. That's where I get the bike leaned hard because I'm not actually breaking the speed limit until I'm halfway through the corner. Most would say I'm riding like a lunatic but if I should have the bike slip out at my sharpest lean, I'm only doing 50-60 mph. I'd stand a good chance of not getting hurt bad. This reminds me of Blackhawk Farm. It's a slower track and if you fall, your probably only doing 50-70 mph. The difference is you can sustain this kind of riding and you really get into the groove much better than is possible on the street.

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I am curious about something track related. On another forum there a quite a few people that go to track days. There are track day vets and then the occasional new guy.

Now there seem to be quite a few accidents. One of the most common is blamed on cold tires. For example a rider exited the pits and wrecked the very first turn. They basically said they didn't think they were doing anything stupid

Is there something magical about track pavement that it's that much more slippery or something than road pavement?

WOW, man! That guy was just making an ordinary turn! It appears that the bikes previously riding on the track carried some kind of moisture on their tires. The track looks a bit damp only along the line through that corner and that's right where he loses it. Could be oil, coolant or more likely, a wet spot a short distance down the track. It's early in the day. This could be his first session. The advanced and intermediate group already ran the track. Possibly cold asphalt, morning dew and maybe race tires without warmers. It looks to me like the guy ahead of him went through that wet spot very carefully. If it was cold, I guess most of us wouldn't have not taken that little turn aggressively at all and this guy was on it just a bit. So, other than possible bike fluids from a crash or overflow, there is no dif between road asphalt and track asphalt. The same rules apply to weather conditions on the track as the street too, obviously.

They try to clean up crash sites as well as possible but it's pretty likely that other riders will run through and spread the spill. At the track I went to, the advanced group had to use 100% water for coolant. The shiny spot is so consistent, I think it's dew. Some of the pit lane looks a little damp too.

There was a crash at both of my track days. The one I witnessed the aftermath of was at the entrance to a sharp corner and there was no fluid. The bike slid into the grass. I could not tell where the other one had happened but we were all warned about possible oil in a particular spot on the track as soon as it happened. I believe what happens most is that riders run off in the slowest corners and usually do not loose control of the bike. This is probably pretty common. It happened to me and I saw it happen to a couple others. It's a good sign you better cool it down a notch if your tail is lifting and wagging around when you brake or downshift hard. Next one might not be just an embarrassing warning.

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Does Indy have bike track days, that would be a fun high speed AMA type setup?

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Rudy I don't believe IMS is as open generally as most general race tracks. Basically it seems like they want to host big professional venues and could care less about the occasional club interest. They have a road course, MotoGP and Formula 1 have had events there in the past (MotoGP apparently the last few years, but 2015 was the last event for now).

IRP (lucas oil raceway) has what looks to be great road course. In fact although known for drag racing these days, it was origionally conceived as a road course. Going to their website, there doesn't appear to be any road course related activity at the track though.

The closest track for me is Putnam Park, it's a good 4 hour drive one way. Not really a big deal in a way but them imo it's not that great of a track.

When I was in Milwaukee, Road America was just North of me. You could hit 180 on that straightaway.

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Good example of someone get'n down on a track with a 14. I'd love to get mine on one. It'll happen someday. LOl still have my Q3s.

As far as the accidents I'd like to propose a different train of thought. Newb signs up for first track day. Never been on a track before, rides fairly conservative on the street. Newb is all prepared, got his Super Q tires, been talking to Wheel's telepathic pooch, got his Xbomb flash. He's all set. Newb ask people, hey what tire pressure should I run. Ask the Runlot guy people tell him. Super Qs? Hmmm you should run those 30/28. This is compared to what Newb usually runs on the street which is stock pressures. Newb gets on track, it's a little slick pavements been ground down by cars and it's a cool morning. Newb wrecks turn one. Anyone else but me see some possible flags here?

ic....Most trackday org that I have attended have a professional tire guy available for any tire question . All I have attended require Newbs to attend morning 30 minute class where they are introduced to teh track environment by a professional Things such as warm up laps are mandatory for Newbs .
If someone goes out and crashes in the first session, and it happens, it is usually becaused they have ignored the advice that has been given them..
Maybe I missed your point??

* Last updated by: chrly on 5/29/2016 @ 7:01 PM *

I was through the novice classroom twice and it never prepared me for actually riding the track but it's something.

I guess lower tire pressure could have had something to do with the crash in that first vid. That can feel a little squishy on the street so why not as soon as you enter the track with cold tires? same thing, really. I ran with 45-50 psi cold on my first session (You read that right). I overinflated hoping to save some wear on the tires during the 75 mile ride to the track. Imagine what the pressure rose to when the tires got hot enough to melt. At that pressure and not riding too aggressively, I found it tolerable in corners. What scared me was braking hard and even downshifting. I never had the rear wheel snake around like that on the street. I lowered the tires to 28 or 22 front and rear (forgot exactly what the guy told me to try but it was LOW) and the situation was vastly improved. I rode my hardest and I stopped having problems with turn 6 where you see me go off at the end.

Please forgive the newbishness of the annotations. i wish I had something more current and mature to show.

* Last updated by: Rook on 5/29/2016 @ 10:46 PM *

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Rook , Not sure who you rode with but I think you are correct, nothing prepares us for our first track day :) My experience has always been here in my area , that help and instructors are available to ease you into the day. All you really need to do is ask.. And in fact a lot of times an instructor will tow a rider around the track to show proper lines or follow a rider then pull them to the side to discuss their lines, form , etc. THe groups are usually a three group format so riders of like skills ( as much as possible) are on the track at the same time and it also means a mandatory break for one group while the others are on the track.
It is simply in the Organizations best interest for riders to enjoy the experience.

yes, I know but what a pisser to loose track time and then to follow the guys advice and slow down. Drag. Total drag. It's awfully expensive to be stoping and listening to someone unless the advice is very important. It took away from my second track day. This guy does ask if you had fun and if you're coming back. Next time I'd tell him the stopping and listening made me regret the money I spent and have second thoughts about returning. Call it a bad attitude but it's how I feel.

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I don't feel like I substantially increase my risks of having an accident.

I was talking about the risk of death not the risk of crashing. If something unexpected happens and I am riding at my 100% or close to it I am going to crash. If I am at those speeds I am going to get seriously hurt when a crash happens and the ambulance is not right there like it is at a trackday or when I hit a tree or a curb like isn't there on a trackday. The medical help I am likely to critically need will be too far away to help and the quicker they can the higher chance I have of living.

I could ride them faster if it weren't for my fear of cops, oncoming traffic, farm equipment traffic and animals in the road.

You just listed every single reason why I don't ride hard on the street anymore.

Now there seem to be quite a few accidents. One of the most common is blamed on cold tires. For example a rider exited the pits and wrecked the very first turn.

When people blame tires in any way that means they were riding beyond their skill level.

Now the first video it is very easy to see what happened. Rider clipped the curbing at the apex with his front tire. That is the point when you start to get on the throttle again(you can hear the rpms climb so we know they were on it) and with the bike upset and grip compromised by the crack between track and curbing when the rear tire hits that point it spins and the bike goes down. Not really the tire's fault, it was the rider being off line.

* Last updated by: Fantastic on 6/1/2016 @ 9:28 PM *

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I think it handles well on the track.

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At least you could get to the edge on those tires. I couldn't on the Rosso Corsa 200/55s I was on despite absolutely moving out there.

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I’d be proud of that Fan. On the street, I just started to run into the lettering at the edge of the tread. Chicken strips about 1/2”. Front, I don’t even look at that.

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The front tire is the more accurate way to gauge upper level riding skill. The rear is what everyone thinks of for chicken strips and for street riders it is very accurate to judge riding ability but on the track the front is all that matters because almost everyone has no rear chicken strip. When you have no front chicken strip I know to talk to you for pointers and tips on how I can ride better!

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I can't imagine what it must be like to own a 14 & have next to no hairpins & mountains near by !
It must be a kind of torture.
I do count myself lucky here in South East Oz, with its mountain ranges & undulating countryside, lots of great days out with like minded blokes & blokettes.
I have no desire to do track days altho I have friends that do them on a regular basis. I get my buzz road riding, & yep the cops are rabid here, but for the most there concentrated closer in the city for the easy dollar.
Johnno.

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ZX is a better twisty bike for me than the Ninja 1000.

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How do the brakes hold up? Seems they'd take quite a beating

NOt for me. Late, hard braking is usually more for advanced riders. Engine braking does much of the work for me on and off the track. That seemed to work fine for the novice class even on a small track with some pretty slow corners. I'm just starting to experiment with race braking. That's one reason I don't mind being in the Novice class. It's not like I'm going to be able to go faster if i ride with more experienced riders. The only thing I miss out on is passing in corners which is not allowed in novice class at Blackhawk Farm. When I go back, I will feel most comfortable going back to novice class until I feel I am truly too fast in the corners for that level.

* Last updated by: Rook on 6/25/2016 @ 8:57 AM *

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...also, going up in rider level is going back to being a newbie.

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That's good to hear I'm not much of a hard braker either but with all that weight and power I was thinking you'd be heating them up pretty good. Guess it's how you ride it though.

Once you find the slower riders in your ride group are jamming you at the corners on a regular basis it time to move up 1 group. Beware, the middle group is full of guys who think they are fast and has the highest crash rate of the 3 groups too.

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Brakes do heat up a bit but I changed the fluid to RBF660 so it basically cannot boil and fade. The pads do get chewed up quite a lot and need replacing more often than they would otherwise.

I'm just starting to experiment with race braking.

Floating the rear wheel until just before the turn in point then trailing the front brake until apex is a blast! :D

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