Just bought a 2006 ZX14. It has full Ti Force exhaust with a power commander and TRE. My question is will it hurt anything to pull the TRE off and leave everything else the same or will I need to remap? I would like to have my gear shift indicator back not to mention this bike was a big jump for me and I really don't need any extra power. For a newbie rider would it be more controllable (safer) with or without the TRE? I jumped from a Ninja 650R to this bike so I feel like I am learning to ride all over again.

Yes/no. Only way to tell is to pull it off, ride it:

TRExtratio'd Rich = Was the map made with the tre? If so, then yes, remap. Was the tre an afterthought and the map was not made with the tre setting? Then, no. There is no need to change map if the dyno charts do not state what is being pulled with what mod. See how you are still up in the air with that Q to be answered?

Map Rich = Say the map now never had a tre mod added. You are now PC rich. Are you hurting bike that way? No. Did you hurt the bike with the tre being in a rich/safe, won't blow up the bike at any speed? Nope.

Bone Stock = If you took the PC off, how can this hurt the bike? It runs rich as is. I can't wink-wink no need a PC, but no one listens to turtle. Gotta bring those aftermarket open pipes without a pc, all being an open track bike and that is an instructor with a zx-10? You see now a zx10 or a 14 having a tuning problem with a street pipe all quiet on the west torn front like nothing is popping out of the bike like a rod, the piston seized up like the rod turkish taffy'd out the case?

Case? I rest my case IS.

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Yes, the tre is a twitchy ride. It gets complicated. Basically stated, if I were to install my ignition's base setting, I want to know where it sits with the timing light? I then tighten down the spark unit. That is a digital/one signal switch in a way. Think of it like a light switch. That is single mode or fast mode. After we set that timing, we plug in the analog.

In other words, we changed the on/off light switch feel, for a smoother analog or the wall switch was changed to a rheostat type switch. Twist the throttle and you can see how smooth and controllable the power is now. But if in on/off light switch mode like the tre, it is twitchy, snappy, on/off is that throttle application. So yes, there is a big performance difference with that safe mode.

That difference is sort of a redundant setting if say the sensor failed. That is why, technically, the sensor failed in one of 3 ways, so yes, you get your shift window back. The sensor has not failed, just shorted somehow, without blowing a fuse that is.

So, yes, you are wasting gas because of the safe mode it puts itself in. Yes, you are wasting gas because the PC is not needed on a street bike with zero mods. A mufflered pipe is still a quiet, show me how open is open to you needing a pc like you said. Do you really need more than you can handle?

I say, yeah, I can handle it. The thing you have to ask yourself is, do I need to waste all that gas when I can get to 186 in maybe more seconds than your mod can in less time? And it sure is not a half a minute difference. Nor, a 15 second difference on the street? Get real!

Pull all the crap off till you get used to the bike. Bike still goes 186.

Isn't she a sweet ride you just have to, have to get to 186 in so many seconds? Is that you, guy?

She can do it. Twist away we need pig parts?

* Last updated by: Hub on 10/23/2011 @ 9:55 AM *

Probably don't need anymore power than stock. I like the sound of the exhaust is about it for the mods. Nice to hear the bike when I ride compared to the ultra quiet 650R. Things that concerned me with the TRE is I read where it causes an ultra lean condition around 3500 rpm without a map change. Looking at the dyno on the TRE website for my exhaust the sub 4000rpm hp/tq numbers are very irratic. It is smooth on the Muzzy, Brocks and Yoshi setups but is crazy for the Ti Force full exhaust compared to a smooth graph before the TRE. I am not sure on the complete mods on my bike. I will be calling the original owner's tuning shop Tuesday to get some more info. I have no prob riding the bike as is but would like the gear indicator to be correct even though it doesn't seem to matter on this bike like on the 650R since it pretty much pulls at any speed, any gear, any rpm. I love the bike, all it needs is a good set of tires on it and bar risers and It'll be perfect. Bars on the way, and probably put some Pilot Power 2CT on it for grip and tred life.

Things that concerned me with the TRE is I read where it causes an ultra lean condition around 3500 rpm without a map change. Looking at the dyno on the TRE website for my exhaust the sub 4000rpm hp/tq numbers are very irratic.

You are spooking yourself when you say 'ultra lean' on a bike that sees that so called lean every time out. Show me the damage of the ultra lean? Remember, those are a lot of 06 and 07 models with the same setup and who is blown up? Show me all the early models that to this day, have seen combo after combo-mod, where is this phantom damage> A tre goes rich limp so it saves any lean condition you think it went to. Bring that info forward, show me who said that and where did you read it?

If you take that tre, plug it into the other wire, this will raise the flies sooner, stop your lag issue. If you remove the sub system of its plates, you no longer get this lag from the bike. You get this big smile you can't get off your face. Lag my rear end!

The TRE pretty much fools the bike into thinking it is in 6th gear all the time so you will have the same timing map with the flys opening sooner in every gear right? Just wanted to make sure I understood it's function. I have heard of no damage using them. Just seen the dyno where A/F was off the chart lean at 3500rpm and the manufacture said they tuned this spike out with the PC. Probably like my car, it is lean at idle but pig rich under load and boost and has no issues. New to the bike tuning and just trying to learn all I can so I know what is going on. I think the previous owner would just drop it by the shop and let them do whatever to it without really understanding what they were doing to his bike.

I have no clue? I can't help you. I am self taught, don't trust the MORE air guys and their theory. It is one or the other. I have a full glass of air. If I swapped water instead, is that glass all she wrote? Instead of me looking a how much more water I can put in the glass. You sea weed where this is going? So, if I look at the concept of taking either of the 3 - solid/liquid/gas, would you agree that is about all she wrote air wise too? So, would the concept continue to be a constant? Every time that chamber fills, so does this glass of air, I pull a paper cup of another one. Do we have the abstract saying, I am going to D-J that glass chamber?

D-J means, I suck. I am digital electronics in a concept of a different jetting. I jet when I am being sucked on the IAP. That is the same sensor in the tail area of the bike. That says I am open loop. An 02 sensor in the exhaust line, says I am closed loop. We are discussing the D-J of this old system, used way back in the 1960's? Invented by bosch. This guy or the industry, came up with all that bosche jetting concepts that walk the abstract in the book.

Follow that IAP (intake air pressure sensor), we turn the key on, we have two numbers called out in the atmosphere as you see that swing of the needles, it says = I've got my two air numbers. One is bouncing on the suck. The other is getting sucked. There is where we are in the digital jetting for the first fire off.

Welcome to D-J = Digital Jetronics. Watt happens next inside the box is me knocking on the outside. The secret shit is inside and I cannot explain what the 6 does on the knockout of that sensor? I'm going to take a wild goose chase and run the walk if I am up to the box this far and understand that we are like a car's MAS (mass air flow sensor). That is like the cat's meow sensor. Works like the 02 with a glowing band or some sort of coil of heat to be cooled down when the air rushes in, flows over it, cools it down. We on the other hand, get that whack 1 digital hit, not the smooth liner numbers when that air has to walk to the next temp signal down/up.

Tell me where I lost you so far? We go to method when that sensor goes down. We just brought in the, "idle/mid/hi" in the backup. Everything shuts down in a way. If my sensor fails, I revert to the a-N/D-J method. Eye got dis! Don't touch that dial. I now control the idle. I now control the low to mid. I now control the mid to hi ya do inn so far?

* Last updated by: Hub on 10/24/2011 @ 7:38 AM *

Do I stay on the same map? That, I don't know? Do I play the word redundant and say there might be the same map, but we are in an ignition swing, rather than if we changed map? If you change ignition, you gotta change the fuel too. Now, is it the time to burn the same fuel, let the emissions clean the rest?

Did the suck change on the D-J or the atmo in the seat? No, I'm going to walk, those two are working the digital now. It is no longer in the analog. That GPS sensor? When you gas the throttle in the car, there is a lot going on ignition wise and switching wise. If we have the air running, gas it, the car does not know if it is climbing an incline or passing a car. There is going to be some sort of slowing down all that load the engine's power delivers.

For example, that air conditioner. That is a lot of drag running. Worse going up a hill with the throttle pinned. This sort of signaling, cuts the A/C off under load conditions. That GPS is sort of this load breaker. If not in place, out drops the linear, in comes the backup. That backup you feel is the hard side setting. Soft side says liner w/sensor inputs. Hard? My guess is shut down sensor, revert to handling the 3 to the a-N/D-J [hard] or the method. Or, the alpha signal.

Alpha is the 760mmHg = 14.7 pee yes eye said look in the cup for the answer to that one. But, we are getting ahead of the curve here. Now, you explain it. See if it walks out of the cup. Cup is the qualifier question. It says more air. It says same air. It says the alpha. It says the constant. It says you better walk it as well as I think I walked that cup to a conclusion = 14.7 psi is the constant. If I filled a shot glass and it was at the bottom of the cup, the air on top of the fuel. I still have my constant 14.7 in a liquid and gas state is still stated as 14.7, you have to tell me what number is in that cup if both are the same shit in the cup is a cup is air is liquid = 14.7 all day long.