I'm having my doubts as well, so far I'm in to the tune of $625 for three batteries and the charger. Beginning to question the wisdom of my investment but not quite ready to throw in the towel just yet. I have decided that Shorai has enough of my cash though and will stick with LAs on my 6R and VTX. New tech is always dicey, we don't know enough yet about these things to know how it will all turn out but looking at cost/benefit ratio right now it's looking shakey.

Having just said that, 10 bucks says I'm going to run it untill death do us part Lol. Some people just don't learn

Me too. I'd buy another one for the 14 and WILL def replace the 5 year old busa battery with a Shorai when the time comes. I'm noticing mine is running at up to 14.2 V on the bikes display. was 13.9 at the highest, previously. Seems to be getting stronger after the bike was put back into service.

Say a battery manu says that a battery will lose 1% charge each day. Turn that candy wrapper over and do the math.

Say the next thing is, I have a lot of bikes, lots of special batteries, but one special charger. I have to juggle these percentage days vs. the days charged. As I rotate a two week sit is one charge, the one I just took off is now 15% down is half a month's worth. Lets look down range and did that one sit past double it's rotation? Now it's a month down is 30% down is my fleet.

My fleet should not lose 1% let alone 10 days sitting with clock and backup bleeding off, plus the phantom bleed off even if not compter'd it makes a bleed off of (+)&(-) connected. I need a fleet of chargers to make said product call the claim of 10 years is it?

And yes, QC is you make one plate vs. the same made plate, you will get that chemical variable in millivolts I would assume no draw is the same. But so close you can get them pretty close if the quality control is there. An unstable cell is just that. Looks QC to me if this is rated for 10 years.

And if I smell smoke off the battery charger, it's a time bomb ready to smoke that copper winding (being the hottest puppy in there). I salvaged the amp meter and connectors. Smoke is the clue never to use it again. You walk away from that puppy... You should see/smell the bloom of smoke coming out of that box before you pull the plug.

* Last updated by: Hub on 4/8/2013 @ 12:10 AM *

And if I smell smoke off the battery charger, it's a time bomb ready to smoke that copper winding (being the hottest puppy in there). I salvaged the amp meter and connectors. Smoke is the clue never to use it again. You walk away from that puppy... You should see/smell the bloom of smoke coming out of that box before you pull the plug.

gotta agree with that. If I saw that battery or charger smoking, I'd be inclined to remove both or either on the spot. and toss in the dump.

And if I smell smoke off the battery charger, it's a time bomb

Have to agree 4 sure, but also have to wonder which of the two is the time bomb ? These chargers are week at best and have No big heavy windings, and they definitely don't put out much current. Yet, they could catch fire ??????

So begs the question why the 6 Volt side pop ? Just Junk maybe Or ???

Thinking the battery back fed to charger and popped the weekest diode on the board. The question is, if it's back feeding what else is this battery doing ? Also wondering what little surprise this little battery has got in store for me Next ?

* Last updated by: Romans on 4/8/2013 @ 4:16 PM *

Think of our volt/reg on the bike. We could literally take that, hook it up to the wall socket. Wall is A/C. There is/was an EE that walked me thru an 8v output wire to my camera, I don't need a battery for the camera, but I rather use the camera battery as a resistor backing it down to about 7.4v is the demand. So 8v may cook it? All I have to do is find a single number resistor, place it behind the camera's plug, meaning. I ohm the volts out. I now see I need to adjust a resistor, I am at 7.2v is the drop, so I am going to fine tune the wire output this way. I catch the next side up say, I bang out 7.5v, I'm not cooking heat @ 8v, so the heat goes into the resistor droplet that is melted over that wire.

As far as back-feed, our v/reg does not back feed being it has a one way diode. Like an old Lucas zenor diode you see in the front of say, a 1970's Norton? You had those huge fins being air cooled, because the heat the a/c was putting out, the diode was the ice breaker. In other words, the a/c output spiked up, the zenor would shoot that excess to ground. And since it was a/c that could change direction, the zenor only sent it to ground, stopped it from backwashing back into the wires it came from.

Then, the idea was to capture both a/c phases. Then 3-phase came along. So no, the battery charger has that little motherboard that holds the diode from back washing back into that coil winding in the charger. That means, zenor needs a spin, the charger receives a [wall socket] constant. Yes, the charger has some sort of diode to stop the coil winding, or that buzz you hear is that copper wire buzzing with the electricity going thru it: reversing direction. Do they use junk parts from china say? Made in America but who made the parts? So was it made or assembled with questionable parts?

These type batteries are used in racing bikes, right? Pounding vibration all season long, year after year.

As far as back-feed, our v/reg does not back feed being it has a one way diode. Like an old Lucas zenor diode you see in the front of say, a 1970's Norton?

Hub this charger does not charge via positive negative terminals. Has a small plug in port between the terminals. The wires are tiny, maybe 22 awg. So I assume each wire carries small voltage to each cell. Maybe inside batt two are touching or melted some how. I may break into into it just to see. Any one have a pic of charger plugged into the batt ?

These type batteries are used in racing bikes, right? Pounding vibration all season long, year after year.

And year after year mine are NFG lol

the battery charger has that little motherboard that holds the diode from back washing back into that coil winding in the charger.

If I get the board out I will take a pic. This board has two sides 6 volt and 12volt,,,,,,, The 6 volt side now has Zero out put

* Last updated by: Romans on 4/8/2013 @ 7:01 PM *

Yes, I've seen the battery and where you plug in the charger. I'd see how many volts it's pushing out of each pin? This way, this might tell you who is down and then match the cell being down when you charger it and let it surface leak, meaning, charge it, walk away for a few hours, now check the battery cell pins at the battery's charger port.

And if 6v is not pushing out any volts... Why take a chance unless you park the battery and charger outside the garage. Then who cares if it catches fire. By that time, the charger is going to melt the extension cord end, short the wall socket, you might catch the fuse blow, so it's time to put out the fire outside.

Why take a chance unless you park the battery and charger outside the garage. Then who cares if it catches fire. By that time, the charger is going to melt the extension cord end, short the wall socket, you might catch the fuse blow, so it's time to put out the fire outside.

My new neighbors will love it

I cancelled my Shoria order after reading this:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=770364

The thread is long and has lots of FACTS, but basically the OP has some cred as a battery guru and has tested multiple LiPO4 batteries to death. He does not speak kindly of Shoria. I've got the Antigravity on order. I was going to get the small case 12 cell, but I found the YTX12/14 case version on special and decided to forgo the 120gm weight saving (I know Rook, it does all add up, but $80 cheaper is hard to ignore).

(I know Rook, it does all add up, but $80 cheaper is hard to ignore).

That's ok, oz. This one is a freebie!

I've read that article several times oz14, in order to digest everything in it. From what the OP writes and now from my own personal experience with these LiFePO4 batteries this is the take away:

1. These batteries are light.

2. These batteries are expensive

3. These batteries are not maintenance free, they require periodic charging on a balancing type charger i.e BMS-01.

4. These batteries die suddenly, they work great right up until the time that they don't.

5. Lead acids are much more foregiving and give you plenty of advance warning that they are dying.

6. These batteries are good for about 2 to 3 years tops without a lot of special care.

Item 6 may prove to be wrong, I hope so as I am heavily invested in this technology now.

In all fairness, Shorai sent me an RMA and free FedEx shipping to return the battery. After testing, they will replace it if a cell is found defective. Shorai has good customer service, I give them credit here but I don't want my bike down for two weeks while I'm waiting for the battery to come back to me. I want a realiable battery from the get go. I'll probably ride it until it dies and then buy a new one or apply for warranty credit.

My concern is being stranded somewhere when the battery quits. Failure mode for these is the bike cranks normally, you go for a ride and pull into Starbucks for a cup of coffee and when you come back to start your bike ....nothing. Time to call a tow truck to come pick up your machine, if you're lucky it won't crank in the morning and you're still in your garage.

So the maintenance free aspect of the LiFePO4 technology is unrealized at the current state of the art. That leaves light weight as the only real draw for these batteries. You have to decide if saving 3 1/2 to 7 lbs of dead weight is worth the high purchase price and ongoing maintenance hassles.

One last thought, if Shorai could get the price of these things down into lead acid AGM territory, then a lot of the issues go away. With a low initial purchase price I would just buy a new one every two to three years. At a price of let's say $75 this is not a big deal. At a price of $225 like I paid for my big Shorai 21 amp-hour it's too high to replace every two years.

That's ok, oz. This one is a freebie!

Kruz, regarding your points.
2. Agreed they are expensive, but a Yuasa AGM is $160 here (ave of I found), and I paid $230 for the antigravity lithium. So it isn't a massive difference.

3. According to Joel Wiseman, the Antigravity batteries don't need a balancing changer, and actually don't support one - there is no port. He claims that even under severe punishment, they maintain balance.

I think ultimately lead acid is a thing of the past, but it is solid reliable technology, it's just a pity it is so heavy. I'll give it a go, and pray I don't get caught out by point 4 & 5.

What are these plates, headlight?

Flies pulled.

The 06-07 bikes benefitted a great deal in the low to mid range power from this mod. Kaw just made the flies open faster 08 and >... The low end improvement for us is about as significant as the weight loss benefit..LOL

Hi oz 14, here in the states the Yuasa AGM is around $70 vs $225 for the Shorai so about 300% more. If it were a lot closer it would be a no brainer.

Interesting about the AntiGravity battery, is it an LiFePO4 technology, same as Shorai?

1. These batteries are light.
2. These batteries are expensive

Weight Loss has value and is worth paying for IMO.

3. These batteries are not maintenance free, they require periodic charging on a balancing type charger i.e BMS-01.

Yes and not what we first thought. Now we have the added expense of the special charger that can be used on Nothing but this batt. So when batt goes charger becomes ?

These batteries die suddenly, they work great right up until the time that they don't.
Lead acids are much more foregiving and give you plenty of advance warning that they are dying.

Just like a light bulb. This to me is their biggest Negative and makes me Question my decision to purchase in the first place.

These batteries are good for about 2 to 3 years tops without a lot of special care.
Item 6 may prove to be wrong, I hope so as I am heavily invested in this technology now.

We will see, bike still starts but our season has not started yet. Fingers crossed.

Well...my yellow engine lamp isn't coming on anymore when I go to start mine after she's been sitting several days...without the charger on....That's good news(IMO).I don't think these bats like VERY cold weather...even when charging.Gonna just leave her off the charger for an indefinite time...see how she does.My last one worked excellently...at least for 10k miles...until I crashed.I don't remember charging that one ever....except at the very beginning.It sat through some cold times.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 4/11/2013 @ 5:11 PM *

Weight Loss has value and is worth paying for IMO.

Compared to other weight loss mods, A Shorai is not too expensive. We're talking several pounds! If it lasts 2-3 years and a lead acid lasts 3-4, I'll go with the weight loss and change more often.

Well...my yellow engine lamp isn't coming on anymore when I go to start mine after she's been sitting several days...without the charger on....That's good news(IMO). I don't think these bats like VERY cold weather...even when charging.

If the bike is started every day, the voltage is at least 13.6 before the engine fires up and the bike starts as described above. First few rides, the voltage was only going as high as 13.8 when I rode the bike. I'd say the battery seems like it needs a little wake-up period after a winter nap. It needs to run through a few full-charge/draw-down cycles or something. The Maintainer won't keep the battery at max voltage unless perhaps you set it to charge mode. Guess that would be the thing to do to help the battery wake up for the first start or two in the Spring.

* Last updated by: Rook on 4/13/2013 @ 9:07 AM *

Often, when conflicts or questions arise that have different opinions, from the parties involved,...one observation can direct you in the right direction and somewhat resolve the issue. For example, when one of the parties involved is caught with thier pants down, showing the normally hidden true underbelly with all its faults.

So, after reseaerching and following the Shorai debate for years, here's the tipping point for me:

- On the official Shorai FAQ page.
" Shorai LFX are based on a completely different chemistry. Not only do they have less than 1/3 the internal resistance per capacity than do lead-acid, they are also the ultimate "deep-cycle" battery. The internal "completely discharged" capacity "

Now, ...

On the Official 'BatteryStuff' FAQ articles and thier tech responses:
"
What size lithium iron battery do you recommend to run an electric trolling motor that draws about 17 amps? I currently use lead acid batteries on my motorized kayaks which on a typical kayak tour run about 90 miniutes. Cost?

Billy Gibson
November 26, 2012 a 4:35 am

Reply

We do not carry any lithium iron batteries that are designed for electric motors. Shorai batteries are starting batteries, not deep cycle batteries.

Conclusion:
If it looks like spin, and smells like spin, and walks like spin.......then, well...you know what it is ( probably)
At least enough to question the Co's credibility.

Changed their tune a bit eh? I think deep discharge can kill these batteries. So far 29 months on the original Shorai in my CBR1000RR and still cranking nicely but will not accept a balancing charge on their charger. The charging system on the bike seems to be keeping the battery up but I have to wonder about any cell imbalances and how that will affect the life of the battery. If it lasts three years, I'll call it good though and buy another one for the weight savings. Shorai, in all fairness, has made multiple attempts to get me to return the battery for diagnostics but I don't want the two to three weeks minimum downtime as long as the battery continues to crank the bike strongly.

Conclusion:
If it looks like spin, and smells like spin, and walks like spin.......then, well...you know what it is ( probably)
At least enough to question the Co's credibility.

1. I have no idea where or who told this battery sales guy watt he told me was, shorai says to use a regular charger? I told him about the plastic door and how the cells are balanced? So did he hear that from the horses mouth, i.e., some sales rep?

2. I know this amateur racer who bought another [backup] bike. He could not get the bike started with the battery it came with? The older race bike has been sitting [is now an engine backup] and [he] probably never charged the battery; if I know the guy. The shorai started the other bike right up. I know for a fact it stayed in that newer race bike from then on.

3. Conclusion: There are two sides to the story and all I am doing is observing watt eye sea over the waves on the internet is [my world] and their side of the current flow. High tidings and 'dats that's all folks!' Make your own conclusions.

Oh and for sure it's over 2 years old and/or close to it. And think how little it's charged. And think the vibration going on during practice/racing conditions. I'm just being subjective. Not taking sides. More objective is stand on the car PIT.

Well, I'm now at 37 months and my CBR1000RR wouldn't start this afternoon. She'd been cold soaking for 13 days due to the polar vortex, thanks Roman for sending that crap down to Texas...lol! The bike turned over but would not start. I'm not sure if the Shorai is dead or not, never seen a bike crank over but not start before but I'm wondering what else it could be, the bike was running fine when I parked it two weeks ago? I'm trying to charge it on the BMS-01 charger and the best I can get is 13.57 Volts on open circuit. I looked back in this thread and was getting 14.19 Volts a year ago on the same VOM meter. I'll try re-installing it in the morning and see if it will start. If not, I'll try to find a replacement for it locally, a lot of shops stock Shorais now.