This is more for Goldwingmann. You asked what could be different between the tunes?

1. This R is basically played out for some riders. Other riders think they can't take any more power and think the factory should stop is criminal if not out and out BS for the limited type, 'man has go to know his ____ Fill in the blank" riders that think in those terms. You've met your limit on the modding. Soon, this mod will make you want more power, but now you are saying this is enough. NOLTT is you'll be on the same page soon.

2. Brock has showed on the dyno about losing 3hp or 2hp up top if the bike is tampered with. Brock also stated he would sacrifice that for the bottom grunt in exchange. WATThat did was change the speed of the sub's opening. That is one part of flashing.

3. Note I said, I said that the subs moved faster. There is your bottom end feel. Note I said, I said that each tuner can only set the ECU to an either/or. Either the ECU stays under your seat and you have a slow, liner moving sub, OR, your ECU comes back with the subs moving faster is the flash all 3 are handcuffed to. So no flash is different. It is more like what to select in the 'either/or' way the computer limps.

4. Either you have 2hp at the top or you lost 2hp is the limp of the flash. The bottom is the speed event of the sub change. The bike can run like that forever because it is more redundant to keep working in an either/or kind of switching.

5. The flash mod, if you have all of the OR's toggled, it still means the pig and pipe keep bringing more HP gain, let alone the 2 you lost. The maps are nothing more than setting a certain amount of fat feeding: to make the bike pound smoother. That's what you are feeling. So if you could see the Ivan AFR line vs. a Brock AFR line, those are feed bag lines is how the bike is fed throughout the rpm range.

6. We should be here on the same page thinking: every flash is the same is the given. Every map made is different. We now see 2 different animals playing with the tuning game. Ivan is more the 'driveability king,' whereas Brock would be the 'king of stock.' Brock gets all he can out of the bike without cam timing or porting, right? Ivan is just a map tuner or brass changer back in the day. So both tune different, both are handcuffed to the same flash.

Make sense?

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"both are handcuffed to the same flash"...really?And just what IS 'that' flash?.Do tell.

They're NOT the same flash...and the mapping complements the flash settings.In spite of your assumptions...they're NOT the same.

You have any idea just what IS being altered inside that ECU....other than the 'list' of what these guys do as standard flashing?To say..."they're all the same" is...well...fill in the blank.

I remember you telling me I was full of shit about the fueling and it's affect on the low end rideabilty.If that's the case...then why have a throttlebody sync.And why does one 14 'backfire' and the other doesn't.Why does one 'flashed' 14 run smooth as glass...while the other feels 'uncomfortable'?....'tuners'?....yep...tuners.The flash guy isn't tuning the bike...he's going by what the tuner wants....the flashes are custom built.They are not the same in each bike.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 5/8/2013 @ 11:49 AM *

This is computer.

0 = I am analog
1 = I am digital

A light switch is this.

ON = I am in one mode
OFF = I am in this mode

Flash goes something like this.

Stock = I am set in this parameter
Limp = I am set in that parameter

Communication between jobbers goes like this.

0 = I am an input frequency
1 = I have to follow math steps to work so as to equal is here comes your output
0 = I am receiving equal input is to match the output is the math calc.

Communication fails between jobbers.

0 = I am out of range is my input
1 = I copied that and since you are out of range, we need to limp the system's curve
1 = I will handle that curve and limp is the mode to save engine from internal damage

ECU Software up on the screen.

Soft = This is like saying analog
Hard = This is like saying digital
Software = This is where you toggle more rpm range
Software = This is where you toggle sub speed change
Software = This is like looking at a pig's own map layout
Software = This is like looking at a car's parameters if you had an OBD-2 (on board diagnostic) handheld device

HackseaDon't chew see how many times I was toggling sub speed/pop to no pop/6th locked is the handcuff of your resistor used being dumped to ground and the 6th gear limp is on display? Only thing flash does is not show FI flashing, but is in use of the EITHER/OR is the handcuff? See it yet?

And since I've got you hear, you were convinced it was the drain plug leaking but deleted that in hindsight. It may have rung a bell being you were [not] convinced, except I was convinced, the OP was convinced. Even if he told you it was dry as a bone and it was the first thing he looked at, did you grasp that or just came up with your own runner upper answer. Wake up, guy. YOu on medication or losing it being an old fart? You sure are not working with all this time on your hands posting. Way too many posts for someone not to get caught or you may be the boss? That's why your credibility is in question with me.

You are not in the smooth nor close to it. It's something else you missed trying to walletune the bike LOL! All you did was send in a black box and the smooth is not in the box. Your sync screws are set for canister work. That's the smoothing is that buzzing of the bleeding off, but you do not work on your bike to know that. Youreach aroundoes. So the buzz is still there, sally whiff your clown makeup off.

I can't help but to open a page and explain what you think is happening and hold on... I'm getting my red magic marker...

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I forgot...you work in 1's and 0's...sorry.And you rode my bike before and after...sorry.Yup...you da man...you win this,right?That's what it's about for you...winning.I'm not trying to win....sorry.I'm only giving back what's been given to me....if I say on MY bike...with the setup it NOW has is 'more likeable' TO ME....it is.Whether you carry on about your 'has to be this way' or not.You can't figure this ECU deal out..and it pisses you off that others don't care about spending some money to get what they like...WHY did you buy this bike anyway?To fix?To tear apart and mcguyver everything?To each his own.It's your bike.

You're still thinking inside the box..."on or off"....okay....On or off...what use then is a reostat?.Flashing the ECU is akin to installing the reostat.It isn't just....'this or that'....

No argument here...I know how my before and after bike feels.And what's been explained to me in a logical professional way by professional people.She feels much better than my 2012 Flashed and piped and mapped zx14R.If I say...the buzz is gone....it means...the buzz is gone...period;)My bike...my ride...my fun.It isn't a 'judgement' on either flashes...except how it feels TO ME.Someone else might ride it,and say...I don't like this.Sa'll good.

"you were convinced it was the drain plug leaking"...no...YOU were convinced that I was convinced.YOU..not me....did I not offer other suggestions to check?SUGGESTIONS....that's ALL they are...not 'facts'.You told him it was the countersprocket seal being deformed from too much chain tightness.Wasn't that either.So what?Good suggestion anyway.As with most of my posts with guys asking questions....suggestions...if I KNOW something is correctable by doing something a certain way that I have done...then yes...those ARE 'facts'....and yes,some things can be done in other ways...it still doesn't change 'facts' for my personal experience(s).Sorry.

Let me ask you this then...since you know all about these new machines....how many maps are in the factory package?How many timing tables are in there?How many parameters are in effect at full braking?Or wheelslip?If you can answer these...I call you credible end of story.If not...you're guessing as much as the rest of us "clowns"....which makes you....??????You have a few snippets of what's going on with these new computer bikes...and you're trying to tell everyone how solid your knowledge is...that you know ALL the secrets of getting a glass smooth ride and all.You're phishing off other people's comments and trying to 'build a case'.I say...go for it....outdo an Ivan or a Brock....revolutionize the 14,14R performance.If you have a better product...bring it.The rest of us mortals will pay someone else to do the hard stuff for us without shame....I love riding...not tuning.Not replacing fork seals.And you won't find me telling anyone how to replace something I personally haven't done.EVER.Or giving 'advice' that I know is gonna detract from THEIR ride experience.Theirs...not mine.

I"ll say this...to clarify for you and anyone else...personally...I think you're a most excellent bike mechanic...you are.You could easily be working for ANY bike manufacturer and easily be the top mechanic.Easily.I respect your knowledge..and your insight.But to say contradictory things about someone elses riding experience(and say 'it isn't or can't be')(how a bike feels to them)is pretty bold...and it takes away from your very good tech answers and all....just sayin'Have a great day...happy riding on your new 14R Hub.He didn't say it was or wasn't under the drain plug...just that there was oil under the bike....

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 5/8/2013 @ 1:52 PM *

You don't have to be sorry about anything. YOu need to read the OP very carefully. The point is this. The OP cleared the drain plug and it was no where near where the drop was is one: you should have figured out. The other is you never seem to see how the OP explains it so you do not make it a 3 page drama about another issue like this. It's not about being right and winning something. It's about thinking out the problem with way too little info in front of you. You go way off someplace else on the bike.

The next is you do not see the low speeds are (2) sometimes turned off and the other 2 are used for the canister. No matter the rpm I make on that AFR meter, that outer meter ring is showing you a smooth meter. You only see the vibe when the brakes come on. I've got a buzz that feels familiaR. So knowing how I've yanked t-bodies out of the 14, even meguyveered the air screws with a hand assist idea. Use no actuator between the body, nor is the shaft in place. Show me your R&D is all I ask: you get involved with the deeper shit. If not, sit it out like now. This was more for the elite who have a grasp on this stuff. And if GWmann can gasp some? Hag can follow concept. Can pick up the abstract like Romes. You're still struggling at it.

I don't know watt I'm doing, but it sure makes a difference when I do. And when you follow book procedure, you see me steer away from that page? No. Think I'm going to turn to the net for an answer and come across one of yours? Some you get right, some you fumble at. Wrong consistency. Work on it.

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...since you know all about these new machines....how many maps are in the factory package?How many timing tables are in there?How many parameters are in effect at full braking?Or wheelslip?If you can answer these...I call you credible end of story.

You work for any of these companies you write a clause not to give out these secrets.

If not...you're guessing as much as the rest of us "clowns"....which makes you....??????

Which makes my concepts valid. Dispute the basics is all I keep repeating. It steps if you can't see it. It speaks in frequencies.

You have a few snippets of what's going on with these new computer bikes...and you're trying to tell everyone how solid your knowledge is

Correct. Because this is how your book savvy comes in. The book makes sense and all I'm doing is diagnosing is why the book shows a few abstracts you should see as steps to diagnosing.

...that you know ALL the secrets of getting a glass smooth ride and all.

Yes. Equal compression and equal t-body sync. The rest takes care of itself.

You're phishing off other people's comments and trying to 'build a case'.I say...go for it....outdo an Ivan or a Brock....revolutionize the 14,14R performance.

I'm tuning the bike all stock. I do not need all this noise and excess fuel waste. A pipe and flash does not make me faster. My balls do. If we were to have an endurance contest going round and round as fast as you could, you'd probably get lapped by a stocker so what is the point of all that extra-extra if you are not using it?

If you have a better product...bring it.The rest of us mortals will pay someone else to do the hard stuff for us without shame....I love riding...not tuning.Not replacing fork seals.And you won't find me telling anyone how to replace something I personally haven't done.EVER.Or giving 'advice' that I know is gonna detract from THEIR ride experience.Theirs...not mine.

I don't know how many times I've told you you have product in the garage is your 3wV's. You could not find the oil leak from here and you cleared it, deleted the post, you got your toast telling you to sit down, you could not even get the drain plug correct. Not my fault guy.

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http://www.woolichracing.com/Products.aspx

These guys are marketing an ECU interface and Kawasaki binary files. The bins are $100 a pop and I think they have ten files. No R&D into the TC yet.

Credit goes to Lee Pritchard and his site ZX1441R.com

* Last updated by: hagrid on 5/8/2013 @ 4:21 PM *

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That's $700 a pop for the whole bin files and com wires? Pass thanks.

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Hi, Justin here from Woolich Racing, just noticed this thread and though i would give you guys a little info.

Its actually only $100 for the bin files definitions for a particular bike model, the $700 is for All the Kawasaki Bin File definitions available in the Woolich Racing Tuned software i.e. ZX6R, ZX10R, ZX14 and ZX14R. The Bin File Pack is more aimed at tuning shops and dealers etc.

So our kit works out at around $450 for Mitsubsihi USB Interface, Bench Harness and Bin File Defs for a model. With this you get full access to fuel, ignition, stp, limiters and other maps available in the Woolich Racing Tuned (WRT) software.

This means that you no longer need power commanders or other add on modules to tune fuel and ignition maps and you can remove limiters etc.

I have put together a video showing how easy it is to use the software. Should give you a good idea of what is available
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WYjZrpa-ZU

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That's way cool!...Thanks;)

Thanks, Justin.

So what you are saying is the hardware has 2 components and 1 software component is the bin file or on CD call it: 3 hard parts. I've already seen one tuning move in that video you made with the software. Interesting. What I'd like to see is how many would attempt tuning the bike on their own and how many would burn them up lean, foul them out rich?

OR...... Outperform the 3-TunEgo's above?

Anyone see what Justin brought to the table? I'll leave that to you guys needing more crisp.

Fresh Doughnuts! Oh look! Someone read my mind!

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yes 2 hardware components

1) Mitsubishi USB Interface
2) Bench Harness for your model of bike

and the bin file definition is downloaded to the Woolich Racing Tuned software after you have purchased via our Web Site, within the software you go to "Account"=>"Login" and the software downloads the free bin files (for Suzuki) and any purchased bin files for your account.

Best results will be obtained by logging AFR data using a wideband O2 sensor and adjusting fuel maps to suit. Or running the bike up on a dyno.

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So Justin, say a burning we will go, I save a map I made and someone says, hey I need a Wooly for an R with this pipe and this mod. Everyone can swap their maps and bin over the net is still bin to computer is shareable, right? Your software has no bugs where it can be saved to CD being the computer freezes or say the computer goes belly up.

Either that or buy a new ECU or have one of the boys above reburn it to OE. Correct?

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You do know Justin is selling the flash setup so you do not have to keep sending your ECU back and forth? It has all the hard/soft parameters. We no like? You want me to be the guinea pig buying pig? You rather plug and play with the 3 tuners?

I'm trying, Justin.

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I'm really intrigued by this gitup here. For the same amount of money it costs to pay someone to flash me I can flash myself and have total control over the performance. No PCV trickery bs, genuine tuneability to my exact preferences and needs, I like. Sounds like the better deal to me.

* Last updated by: nasty on 5/15/2013 @ 11:08 PM *

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Just watched the vid and learned more about it, I'm sold on the deal. Just ain't ready to drop the cash at the moment....
Plus side of this unit is it has more than just one application.

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Same here. I'd have to buy a laptop. I just matched this B-obd (bike on board diagnostics) box. Justin, WATT say you sell the blueprints to the bin of parts it takes to make one? Buy the $100 bin on line. Something like that for the few that can solder up something?

I'd love to play with one, but I hack other ways getting to the on/off's. I'll just be bunging along watching use dial one in as I dial mine in more lean and mean [mpg] wise trying this or thathinking out of the box.

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No sorry, we have invested a considerable amount of time and money developing the interface, bin files and flashing protocol etc. etc. Not really an option to sell the design off cheap for DIY. Considering what you get, its very good value buying the package at the price we are selling it for.

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I'm eyeballing this setup as well.

@Justin: I heard a rumor that the folks who've had their ECUs flashed by Don Guhl were subsequently "locked", meaning no one else but Guhl could get back in. If this is true, will your tool be able to access and edit an ECU that's already undergone a bin file edit?

Also, does the use of your editor prevent me from using someone else's editor down the road?

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hag,
I'd like to take a shot at this.
Correct. Locked out you are for the price of??? This is what basically is being held in Guhl's hands. There may not be the same platform like looking at a vBulletin kind of platform as opposed to Galleon Forums V2.2.4 kind of platform, but do the same sort of thing.

Yes, you shell out that hunk of money, you are so close to matching the handheld. This is like a Y-kit or a race kit part you need. Same as Kawi's race package to go racing with the 600 and 1000's.

This is THE map inside the ECU. So you mess with this guy, you are doing the same thing as a piggy being hooked up. At this point, the pig is redundant messing up your own tune? So this means, why do I need a pc when I have the OE map in hand? I do not need more wires, more harness, more box to find a space for.

Watt I read is that some chips are made to be burned 65,000 times so you can play with the burn sessions until it goes belly up and you buy a new OEcu and 65K more burnshe burns out again. I doubt you'll steer that far away from stock. Mapping is an art forum one more time. "My bike runs like key rap! Anyone got a map for a...??"

You go messing with this boy, you need to save-save-save or you'll never find where stock was in the cell mix. Those are the small squares. The drag and highlight those cells, then +/- them? You'll need notes after save after backup after notes you better know what you are getting into.

Signature wise, that bin is a written code then downloadable or transferable is what I've read what a bin file means. So the platform is the same code writer who wrote that platform sort of C the C++ HTML crap out of it and all that code in C coding I think? So the only way the bin can communicate is if his C code can follow another written code? That I don't know? You would have to think like, I wrote this code in linux and I want apple to communicate with windows in every keystroke, then no, I don't think other bins will be compatible with other bin writers?

Man, if I knew code, I'd figure out the parts to make one. I'm in the wrong field.

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You are correct...yes.However...getting an ecu map to be just where you want it?That's the positive thing about the PC whatever.It's simpler to work with than that ECU system....unless you have it set up to plug and play...preferably...several ECU's.That Woolrich setup...that's definitely the deal....but my God...can you imagine the attempts to get it set just how you want your mapping?Who has that kind of time...to fine tune...ride...fine tune...ride.It would be nice though to do away with that PC...I'd rather not have it myself...but you can't be shipping your ECU off to get it 'perfect' by someone who isn't riding YOUR bike.That's the catch...the Woolrich setup is probably a VERY GOOD investment...for a guy wanting to fine tune his personal ride.

I don't think Guhl or the others are locking anyone out...You can access all the coding with these flash units.Just gotta know what you're looking at.Every one of these 'flashes' pays for another setup like Woolrich.I think their deal is really cool.If I knew how to tune...I'd get one for sure.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 5/16/2013 @ 9:39 AM *

Okay Hub...it's time.Break down and buy that Woolrich deal....get in there and start your program tuning the 14R.The window is open now....it's gonna close pretty soon I think.There's still an opportunity for a guy with your abilities to make things work.You know what you want.The ride you want.It's right here for ya now....mcguyvering only goes so far;)

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 5/16/2013 @ 10:15 AM *

Grn- when you modify the fuel map on the pc is the exact same way you would modify it on the ecu. Adjustment on the ecu is done just like you would with the pc. The only difference is you get 10times more control over everything.

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If you can't do that then you should not buy this and you should stick to your cookie cutter tuners cause this product is not for you.

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That's what I mean...this thing would be great for Hub...and some others here.