Hi all. I have an 06 with a full Yosh system, PC3 yadda yadda. If I take the secondary flies out, do I need to re-map the PC? If anything it's running a tad rich right now.

Thanks guys!

Mad

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There was a old post showing a lean condition at around 3800 rpm on the 06,07 models. So I almost would have to say yes or just don't ride at that exact rpm all the time.

do I need to re-map the PC? I

What Map are you running now ?

Flies still in on a 06 ???? You may be the last of your kind lol. Your going to love the change.

Yes, you need a new map if you pull the flies.

Ignore Hub if he posts. LOL.

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YES! Pull them, you'll LOVE it!

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Mad,

You need to show me where the lean condition is if I have the flies out [of play] NO MAPA!

11:1 Accelerator pump apply.
12-13-14:1 Stock cruise curves.
16.5:1 Lean but watch; it is richer than stock - Stops the pop - Richer than the softer;
18:1 Is lean but lean-out is normal; for the idle to set itself back to idle [lean] on lift.

If you read that the speed hitting BDC is all that happened and you understand that concept; No matter how fast I open that throttle up = Never EVER once did the bike lean under 14:1 AFR.

If you notice, I throw those codes on the fly and you can see it swing back to 16.5:1 AFR on the hard. 18 on the soft. You are crying the bike feels too rich with a map and I feel that hard cut richen up all out of crisp tune.

If you listen to the cheeze-wiz-iz-Here, you are on your own. Listen to me, you are the cheeze container handing out the Wizzzzzzzz IZ the cash window? YOu broghthatune here?

If you only knew the wire hooopeeedooo WEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeL Spin! Buncha Gobmeet Cheeze Wedge Heads!

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My head hurts..... Well, I don't know what tune it has in it. Hell, i don't even know if the flies are still in it. In fact, I don't even know that it actually HAS the PC3. I was told when I bought it that it had the PC3, but I haven't looked for it yet. I do know it's not under the seat. Do they usually get put under the front tank cover? I've just been riding the thing. Haven't done much more than check the tires and lube the chain. It's not like it NEEDS the extra power but it's something to consider for a rainy day.

Mad

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The reason I'm asking about getting it remapped is that when i took my ZX10R to the local ""guru" he spent 3 hours on the dyno shredding my rear tire and I ended up with a bike that absolutely fell flat on it's face at 4000 rpm. I fixed it at home with a download from the dynojet website. So, I have to find someone else that knows what they are doing. Although, this guy owned a race team and was supposed to be the "best" tuner in the area...Yeah...riiiiight!

Mad

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Mad,

It goes something like this:

Hubbish, yes you will need to get retuned.

Here is someone telling me I need a tune on a computer bike.

Yes, the throttle bodies flow more air into the engine.

Mad, here is were you separate the tire burners for 3hrs and a dip@4K are those pro's. Throttle bodies flow more air is that raggedge of asking about that N/A once again and now we are at BDC. Did you receive MORE air. The absolute answer is SAME AIR@BDC = Happened Faster if more air can be induced. Porting is that same type even. Air cleaner pop off is the same speed event of the only one number filled.

Yes, the stock throttle bodies are RESTRICTING the engine.

As are the air cleaner to the V-stack to the cam lift to the port size to the exhaust flow out.

The zx14 can pull more air into the engine then it does.

The 14 cannot pull more air into the engine once it leaves the end of the t-body you hogged out, yes or no more air is one. And you wonder why I'm on your abstract cause you got a problem with your thought or mine?

The larger throttle bodies allow the engine to be more efficient, allowing more air in faster.

Yes, into the t-body. Are we watching the next step is the port slowing it down again.

I'm not sure why you've got a bone to pick with me, but the guy asked a question and i answered it. I am here to help, if you are here to argue go back to the other thread. I'm not here to see who knows more, or who's done more, or any of that. I'm just here to share MY experiences and what I'VE learned along the way.

Boy, you will learn the hard way if you look the fool not me waiting for the likes of you rolling that pile out the back. Are you going to race to win or just run against yourself?

I am here to de-smoke your abstract. If my abstract correct yours, because you want to help and I want to see you speak in the absolute so you don't look like you can tune a zx10 for 3 hours and lag it off the rusty-roller when you're done.

One reason I don't run a map because my spray knows my rpm every millisecond like it needs a map for the street? AS if I WOT the throttle from an idle and you are going to tell me it went lean if the sensor reads the same number under load. Didn't we slow that down under a load rather that the fastest whip up the scale? And the after market pipe has a muffler in it no less too. You then hear the monkey map screams in the jungle for a set of side cutters to the pc wire.

* Last updated by: Hub on 5/31/2011 @ 8:34 AM *

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I was told when I bought it that it had the PC3, but I haven't looked for it yet. I do know it's not under the seat. Do they usually get put under the front tank cover?

It's probably under the left ram air duct cover. That is where DJ's instructions say to put it.

The reason I'm asking about getting it remapped is that when i took my ZX10R to the local ""guru" he spent 3 hours on the dyno shredding my rear tire and I ended up with a bike that absolutely fell flat on it's face at 4000 rpm. I fixed it at home with a download from the dynojet website.

Wow... your tuner musta been hung over or something... 'cuz all the maps from the DJ site SUCK.lol
Check to see if you still have secondaries... if so remove them... I'll send you a map.

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Hey THANKS Dogo. Someday I'll even look for it!

and thanks to you too Hub!

Mad

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Hub is your bike running that pig rich on stock ecu or are you messin with it some?

Bill,

Technically yes, this is approximately 39 minutes worth of throwing excess fuel at it. You have to see my bike to follow the video. I have toggled the codes to duplicate the book's code program. What it says in print, says exactly what it does for most of the sensor sections I tried. Most get the bike hot in an excess water bar. If it cuts the HP down as Slow has seen, I sort of scream dropped fork-air brakes. That means, we will cut the ignition so as to save the load you are going to put on it as if it were stock. We know it says in the owner's manual to return the bike back to someone like a dealer or head to the parts counter and shoot craps for parts. So, while you are buying extra fans for coding the bike running dork the fork rich, we just watch you here in Japan and laugh our ass is off with the Hub-beer and sue she is taking it no matter what you throw at snowflake. Our bulletproof computer can dick with your dick you think you can dick some dick a lick of a change GEAR-PEE-PISS-INN-6-IS-Whores-IS-POW-EAR...Take this pee-scription of you're'inn sample from Dr. Eyes'INN'Wee-Near... any more close yet?

It gets complicated getting it on the same page is gang plank ya. Washa me deck was that somewhat easy? It says you remove a wire, remove a connection, or put something in line like you are going to trick the computer says here are 3 things say you won't. And that is when it handles two operations. If you have time to watch that needle, it will swing to 16 or to 18 when you shut off the throttle. 16 is coded and 18 is back to stock. When I

It says, I will run all stock here is all the HP baby. The other sad side I've been tearing my hair out ever since I bought the bike and lost all the tuning ability of the unit-loop-bike, I have joined the round table of jerk-cough the wire(s) and I begin to laugh my ass off.

You've just came in the door. This has been going on for years it seems. My old lady is looking at a map with me on line. She gets me lost telling me the directions, then literally throws the map at me. We seem to be lost and she tells me to read it and here we are at our DIS IS HER YOU R! TOYS ARE YOUZZZZZZZZZZ SNOOzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz You lose!

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Very kool Hub. I get some of what your doing and admittedly i am just guessing but if close its no wonder why you can't say.
I watched the video several times and man that a/f is smooth (on throttle) in a few sections of filming !
Earlier i was telling snuff how to decipher your diag prowess and told him i think you have to much going on in your head sometimes LOL . It comes out in very good information tho that know it or not can save the do it yourself types some cash.......

I see what you mean. You mean, I chase two types. The do it yourself'ers [RooKruz] types and the drive to the dealer may know they can understand what is being done to the car and not get snowed knowing a few basics. As in, the old lady with the soccer mom car won't get ripped off at the drive. Her knowing the same basics of both car/bike fundamental 02 moves that share equally in that 4-stroke, you watching that meter.

Those were more accel cuts so you could see "there is not one bit of lean" with those subs missing in the loop. That is a bone stock ride from day one [minus flies]. That fuel cutter just smooths out the engine a touch more but that peaky torque is moved or flattened out.

The last section about that wheel breaking loose[like dis/like dis], was a fat accel set in the cut box. I'm trying to remember if that was how the wheel broke traction? I had a ping and a play going on and the heavy rich AFR is the best torque w/accel in play. So, I believe if I remember rather than use notes so nothing is around as in the trickset my tracks [are in the afr cuts].

You have guys trying to break-in this black-box thing and flash it, or download some base map in a piggy box, to change a fuel trim? But, if you could see how much a race-ECU changes way more things inside, you can change many parameters besides the ign map and fuel map makers. But say that more pings the loop is the PC. That rip-off inside some Busa/14 flash is just not what you think it is. Guys are saying they got flashed, "but it still needs a tuneup." That should tell you it got a dose of PC'Diseasy now set at 16.5 AFRLift, you just had to follow the crowd not set the snowflake like left it alone.

That kind of speak of a retune sounds like a code set? As if you messed with the GPS wires that sends you to the pre-ignition setting. Which makes me laugh. Even the old books shows where you need to preset the [slotted pickup] units; as if we are flashed back to set the cone's bake on a '79 H-D/'99 Busa = Same ign time the engine mark to the pickup units. It tells you to do it 1 of 3 different ways are those amigos singing to the same page on the 14. But it's a [non-adjust] preset; Uncle Eye'van, don't you see? So if it does not time in on the 14 @ 10° BTDC = Junk Pickup; is how you read the book that does not tell you [that shit] but should already know it said on pg. 1-12. To simple. Too fucking funny! I think you can start laughing with me, Bill. You kind of figured it out some with some of the few of us.

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Now Hub, if you could only type out a serious how-to in plain english of how all the codes and sensors and syncing and the fine tune with the pig at the end go together, maybe you wouldn't need to struggle so much every two posts and type the same shit over and over. But then what would you do? Right? Rainy days and shit? Or did you already do that somewhere? Because I follow what you're saying but I never quite know if I got your intended meaning right, but I think you intentionally leave just enough out so as not to make it too obvious like you're afraid people might steal your ideas or you're hoping somebody has some great epiphany and gets it every twenty years or so. I just don't have that kind of time to decipher your tidbits every other post and I'm starting to see why some people may get annoyed. lol

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Now Hub, if you could only type out a serious how-to in plain english of how all the codes and sensors and syncing and the fine tune with the pig at the end go together, maybe you wouldn't need to struggle so much every two posts and type the same shit over and over.

You are watching a learning curve. I get confused, back track, unconfuse myself and begin retracking. It's that struggle trying to make sure I get is absolutely right or the next step will not compute and that next post shows if it will or not.

But then what would you do? Right? Rainy days and shit? Or did you already do that somewhere? Because I follow what you're saying but I never quite know if I got your intended meaning right, but I think you intentionally leave just enough out so as not to make it too obvious like you're afraid people might steal your ideas or you're hoping somebody has some great epiphany and gets it every twenty years or so.

HA! I do not intentionally leave out the basics. I leave that obvious answer to be digested with me or you will be mirrored in the end. I have no will to go racing. Only in my head would I take a chance. Street speed is not race speed. So, obviously the FI-theory would say, I'm going to tune it this way and I'm afraid if you do not see it my way, I'll intentionally leave out what you should see what I see so you say, yes, that is the tuning direction. No, not even close I understand your wider doors, but the hell if I can understand more air in the same room. I need to think about that now. So, if I say it so obviously is that stupid a D'UH, then take 20 years to think it out is your problem, no? Not my fucking fault! What, you want the answer too? I think it's there like way too obviously there. Now, get the bike running as crisp as mine since I have no clue what I'm doing but it sure is smoother now than that old AFR video. I gave it to you [book sync is hide a tune on you that is in the book]> No, someone takes off with it blind [move] like a tre-limb-the-6hp-limp, you blaming me for the abstract? Because I said that ladder is smoking at the legs someone is screwing in a light bulb has stripped the threads going in. This what you mean by reading some frustration on your end? I mean, the burn at the legs. It's not fitting together for you as it tumbles 1-2-3-4-5 = Mission Accomplished in the Milliseconds, here we go again. That's that other post the explain my other post to explain the other ghost-post sent in; this to, re-exposes the toast on the Tuners Testicles! What do we want? Wide Dear Me the doors! WOThe fuck for? More air? No, WATThe fuckizz it then? More hot air up the Tuner's rear end is a wider orifice. Where do we want it? UP______________ Fill In The BO0O0OBLab Beer Door Toe Jam... My toe is jammed up some tuner's ass!

I just don't have that kind of time to decipher your tidbits every other post and I'm starting to see why some people may get annoyed.

And that is their problem. You get Ivan, Brock, RB Racing, I don't care who comes to the table, you better walk the book or we are not tuning bike but guessing at it like me. So, you are as frustrated as me in that you see me scream fork drop and that says on point ; a 6-hp loss if that dyno is correctly read by SLOW who saw it with his own eyes.

And you wonder why I am obsessed with a good tune in the FI. I now call myself, Dr. Eyes'eel Burn..... Say it! When I read hub's print to not fit-my-brainscreamscan, My _____ Say IT! Your ... TOO!

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I hear you loud and clear, just yesterday, my old lady is yelling at me because I cannot communicate with her. It's been like this since she's known me. Ask her how the conversation is going and she says it is an, 'uncomfortable discussion." Imagine her frustration and you feel that same frustration as her.

I've been to the skool of hard knocks. And it's hard, frustrating, I'm going to figure out a HOOK, not some theory. Do you know how hard it was to pull out, Dr. Eyes'ell Burn? All DIS time on the net, I've come up with way too much lame'shit the way I speak.

I'ma port my headache and have MORE Is MORE of your yeast infection of a tune and now you have to be all frustrated? I'm just pulling shit out of my ass trying to come up with the penultimate A to begin FI. Right ouTThe gate I get MORE AIR in the Shame-BEER-Hall-Of-Flame. I deal in degrees. Hand you a 42°F beer ya go. Brain freeze Beer MMMmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Imagine, no beer for the last two weeks and I had pizza last night... Talk about FrustrationFI.

<<< Her is your Man Card. YOU-R going to get [more] of the SAME she helps me SO!

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Well, I don't disagree with you on the TB pulling more air in the cylinder balonga. The way I understand it only a certain amount of 'mixture' can be 'pulled' (natural-aspiration) thus cylinder volume. Correct? The only ways of changing the amount of mixture you can fit into the cylinder is by turbo 'CHARGING' or super 'CHARGING' or to a certain extent lowering it's temperature which can end up ruining atomization if you go too far. As you were getting at, TBs are only doors controlling how fast the cylinder fills. There is a paradox in this in that the larger you go with the doors the less velocity the incoming mixture has resulting in slower filling and less turbulence and therefore less atomization. Granted, the people touting the bored TBs have taken this into account (I would hope) and found the optimum bore before the velocity drops off. This optimum is for a certain style of riding not low end. The bigger you go with the doors the more you need to keep that air moving. At lower RPMS you can kill the motor if your doors are too big.
This is all I know from years of struggling to keep my old modified N/A carb engine running. We started out with 36mms (even 34 in some places) and upping to 38mm was common. For those with the engine and the riding style a 41mm Flatslide carb was the way to go for top output but there were drawbacks.
It doesn't sound like the bore they are putting on the 14s is that big of a jump; 44mm to 37? 3mm? So this whole point may be moot. But nerds like Hub and I have to talk it out anyway.

The thing that may change my thinking is the differences between FI and carbs. In this instance, mixture velocity. A constant velocity carb is dependent on flow to pull fuel up into the air stream and get the right mixture. FI can spray whatever it wants due to injectors and fuel pressure from the pump. How does this affect the importance of velocity. Does this make my whole agreement about bore irrelevant? (genuine question,lol)

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Well, I don't disagree with you on the TB pulling more air in the cylinder balonga. The way I understand it only a certain amount of 'mixture' can be 'pulled' (natural-aspiration) thus cylinder volume. Correct?

Correct. Goes like this:

1. That fill is still 14.7 psi on the close, N-A.
2. Cold winter air, I am going to pull some fat fuel to match that n-a proportion.
3. Hot summer day, I have expanded air like it only takes less gas to pull that much proportion out.

The other correction goes:

A. Sea level, I am pulling this pressure resistance out the jet.
B. Higher altitude, I have less air, the same proportion is pulled out of a jet, not an injector that knows the diff.

The thing that may change my thinking is the differences between FI and carbs. In this instance, mixture velocity. A constant velocity carb is dependent on flow to pull fuel up into the air stream and get the right mixture. FI can spray whatever it wants due to injectors and fuel pressure from the pump. How does this affect the importance of velocity. Does this make my whole agreement about bore irrelevant? (genuine question,lol)

You mean if the bore went from 1000 to 1352cc the speed in is the same constant? Yes, no matter the bore, same number closes on that stroke.

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You mean if the bore went from 1000 to 1352cc the speed in is the same constant? Yes, no matter the bore, same number closes on that stroke.

No. To elaborate; When you open the bore of a CV carb used in most production bikes until FI came along, it can have a negative effect on velocity of the air filling the chamber and thus slow down the ignition event and make it more inefficient. The mixture will always be in proportion to air pressure/vacuum and keep it's ratio. But if the bore on a 'CV' is opened enough the air will 'stall' at certain RPMS making low rpm operation difficult if not impossible. Hence, the ceiling is set for how big you can go with the bore on a CV.

...wait a minute.. I think I've already answered my own question...

I was wondering if somehow the ability of the computer to manipulate the mixture by use of artificial fuel pressure(pump/injector) and metering(software/sensors) can over-come the weaknesses of the CV carb and allow for larger throttle body bores. But now I realize that it is a question of air velocity itself that determines the maximum bore potential of a given engine design. I was making the issue more complicated adding in fuel metering into the equation when it isn't affected by bore size no matter vaccum or injection. One may be quicker responding than the other but in the end, if the air's not moving, the air's not moving and the engine stalls.

I end up answering a lot of my stupid questions. I'm a visual thinker so just the act of reading what I say on the screen can help me think in a straight line, even when no one is helping. lol

I appreciate the great answer you gave me, though, Hub-stein.

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Bigger carbore = It will pull that much more [bored] air before it begins to suck out the jet hole. So, as the velocity beings moving, you [caused] the entered air in and leaned out [effectively] the chamber; for the chamber could care less who enters to neutralize that vac-pressure back to 14.7 ABDC.

Is that your stumble?

Plus, someone needs to show me how a pipe without an 02 can sample how that bike started up without any unspent to help some sort of extra start, i.e., hard starting the very first fire no 02. Now, as you visualize not one unspent but an air bubble behind that exhaust valve is what? Well, is not the pipe all 14.7 psi as if no vac/press is going on, but the 1atmo inside the exhaust pipe no [fuel] present?

So, can you take it further, say, that bike starts up without that back pressure being it is going to meet 14.7 means; all about being sucked in for the cause. The effect is you playing with a bubble and will that pop you pin prick the balloon of air all in the pressure where it is not at the 1 atm?

Walk it to tune it back up with some lean to AFRighthere! PAzYearazzUP = Pay UP big bore Lean machine!

Say: Yes I think I see lean.
OR: No, I have the opposite rich answer and it is DIS sheerighto the end. Start to dispute it
Say: YOU ARE WONG Junior. Lean happens________ Fill in the blank.

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