Romans in an effort to understand why the stuttering is this directly related to fuel pressure being to high?

Muzzys has there fuel pressure base pressure at 60 with 1:1 rising rate regulator.

Romans in an effort to understand why the stuttering is this directly related to fuel pressure being to high?

Hello Dale, Welcome aboard.

Dale I know guys run 60 psi with 1:1 but to this day I do not understand how they make it work Perfectly.

With 60 psi the bike off boost gets to much fuel between the #'s in the power commander fuel cells and there is no way I have found to remove that much fuel with current tech and I have hundreds of maps to prove. So What happens between 20% 40% 60% 80% 100,,,, is stock fuel setting from ECU are used, rich AFR down low lean up top = studder.

With 60 psi on full boost at 1:1 you only have 68 psi of fuel pressure. This is not enough IMO and pushes fuel injectors 100% duty cycle. So do you add bigger injectors ? If so what happens down low,,,, see what I mean. Vicious circle.

So in short I don't know how Rob and others running that way are doing it ? Big Brains 4 sure lol.

My bike currently is 35-38 psi off boost and 90-100 psi full boost. Both worlds solved. When in between fuel cells in the map, I now have lower pressure to work with the factory ECU setting and up top higher pressure to give more fuel between the #'s to work with stock ECU settings. All I can tell you for sure is it works. AFR tells all.

Tuning off boost has been a passion of mine for a very long time. Goal is to have a perfect dual purpose 275 hp street bike. No stumbles no studders. And I finally have it.

If I did not tell you my bike had a turbo you would not know until deep throttle and 3200 RPM then hang on as the tire breaks. Go easy and no boost until 4800RPM Smooooooth with wicked gas mileage. Awesome and I love it. Hook set Deep.

I have gone my own way on all this and is by no means is the only way. I just know what works. I ride the proof.

I welcome all input as it is the only way to learn. As you can see I have no secrets lol.

I hope this helps in some way, if I can help I will Cheers.

Romans, you seem to have done much work on this, Its been frustrating the hell out of me trying to get rid of the backfire and not quite so smooth off boost(still good on gas though)
I would like to try what you have set up for at the moment..........35/38psi and your map if I may????..:)
Are you running the boost pressure sensor or doing it off the TPS ?

Any other settings I should be aware of?
Cheers
Andy Grin

I would like to try what you have set up for at the moment..........35/38psi and your map if I may????..:)

No Problem, will send. I now have new E-Mail address.

Are you running the boost pressure sensor or doing it off the TPS ?

Only other is wire from AEM boost gauge to power commander. Voltage reading at idle and full boost reading entered into Pressure axis table in pc software.

been frustrating the hell out of me trying to get rid of the backfire

Yep, I gave up trying to sort that out. Bike was spending to much time with lap top studying that one.

TRE006A now back in and No Backfire, also much easier to map that area.

The TRE 006A is the only thing that works 100%. I pulled 99% of all fuel in that area, still boom, I added fuel in AFR from 6000rpm down still boom. With header that dumps under my ear was a major piss off. All Good Now. Keep this in mind when you load my map,,,, will be off on the idle wind down 0% and 2% column.

Hi Romans, Sorry but I was away working in Germany this last week and have just got back. I was fortunate enough to be able to take my bike with me..........! It was quite cool though many people looked at it and generally the reaction was fu....! how fast?
Anyway I was able to give it a squirt down the autobahn a few times... deffinately got the hook in deep now I think the acceleration is staggering even between 90-160 just brutal .At lower speeds staring to get it sideways , i guess the standard swing arm must be twisting a bit? Also need to check the wheel alignment , it could be the rear wheel not perfectly lined up. Maybe just on the edge of traction.
Had my first decent comparison with another bike, A local nutter on a Fazer 1000 I think. I had been down the road once in the morning and it was late in the afternoon he came out in front of me froma junction, I got passed him and then he did me on a very long corner which tightened I didnt know the road so well so had no choice but to let him go a bit, next was a fast flowing section and hed already got a bit of a gap on me round some cars, anyway I knew I had to open the taps a bit and get back on proper boost, and guess what , he was right back in front of me!
I need to get some more mapping done because I think the backfire scarred the shit out of some of the drivers in cars that we passed..............
Ok would you mind sending the map and any details covering what I may need to know to ADGrindrod@aol.com cheers.
I am running off the TPS at the moment but have the map sensor installed.....(just needing to check it has good voltage as it is a 1bar atmosheric sensor and should be ideal to get a good resolution at half a bar boost.)Im still running 42 psi so will need to do a few changes.....
Thanks and waiting patiently

Cheers
Grin

hook in deep now I think the acceleration is staggering even between 90-160 just brutal .At lower speeds staring to get it sideways , Maybe just on the edge of traction.

Lol, with 18/41 she is pulling hard to do that. Look forward to your report on 17/45 gearing. Scary Fun.

get back on proper boost, and guess what , he was right back in front of me!

Your geared so tall, surprised you did that well. If you would have stayed on it he would have disappeared in your mirror 4 sure. What was your AFR under full boost ?

Did you purchase a TRE006A ???? No back fire if you do & mapping so much Easier.

Sent test ping from my new E-mail address, let me know if you get it. Cheers.

hook in deep now I think the acceleration is staggering even between 90-160 just brutal .At lower speeds staring to get it sideways , Maybe just on the edge of traction.

Lol, with 18/41 she is pulling hard to do that. Look forward to your report on 17/45 gearing. Scary Fun.

get back on proper boost, and guess what , he was right back in front of me!

Your geared so tall, surprised you did that well. If you would have stayed on it he would have disappeared in your mirror 4 sure. What was your AFR under full boost ?

Did you purchase a TRE006A ???? No back fire if you do & mapping so much Easier.

Sent test ping from my new E-mail address, let me know if you get it. Cheers.

Hi Ive beenworking in germany this last week and was able to take the bike there. I was running on 102 uk spec octane fuel.......good stuff and freely available , it was running at about 11.8/12.0
Regarding the gearing I wanted to keep some economy too, and its really good too!
Email is good ......
Speak soon
Grin

Map sent. Made today. AFR 11.4 to 11.6 on gauge at full boost. If you see diff turn in RRFPR.

My gearing is 17/45 so map will be diff then what you need, but this will give you a good study point. AFR table in map should give you a real good idea how I'm now running. ,,,,, Do Map compares but don't make to many changes to your safe map. I hope this helps, have fun Cheers.

Hi Romans just back from another trip, cant remember if you mentioned how you did your mapping with the last map[ you sent if you did it map sensor or not........
Thanks
Andy

All my maps Are made with Auto Tune Turned ON. The area's in higher rpm were a blend. I add or minus fuel manually when Auto Does not see. When fuel cells give good AFR #'s below 3000RPM, I turn that area off. Remember sensor is blind when #'s below 10.5 and will Not make give trim #'s. Make changes 2% at a time. Hope this Helps, cheers.

Thanks Romans, goona give it a go this weekend, all this week and last has been manic! Fitting my new kitchen!!!!!
How about you, I suppose your house is all done?

Anyway did you use a map sensor or TPS during this tune?

Cheers grin

Anyway did you use a map sensor or TPS during this tune?
Cheers grin

I'm lost, what do you mean ? I,m building from scratch. So in your case build from the maps I sent you. Follow from AFR,,,, table is the law,,,, Follow it and all will be good. The TPS will show you where you are at any given time in the fuel cells but common sence is up to the map builder ????

If you call me I can tell you more,,, Keep in mind this is E-Mail, I don't know if we are on same page. I will always help if I can. Boom will come quick so do NOT run lean,,, just sayin???? You Don't need any one if AFR is True.

Sorry, maybe the translation is not so good.
I have been using the TPS as the method of fuel control up until now. I would like to use the map sensor/to adjust the fuel linked to boost rather than just throttle position , do you still use a GM 3bar map sensor for this or are you solely on tps?
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRrinner :)

Grin my set up is very very simple and is as follows.

1. PCV
2. Auto Tune
3. My Own Turbo AFR Table, Same one I sent you.
4. RRFPR set at 35 to 95 psi
5. AEM Boost Gauge.
6. Five Volt Boost signal From AEM to PCV
7. Pressure Axis table set to read idle voltage min and 2 bar max
8. Very Very Fast and Very Scary. Lol

This is all you need for our street kits. I'm now running 9lbs Boost on 94 octane pump gas. Boom is heading my way. So, maybe I'm not the best person to ask, as Boost Greed has me. Going to try 12 lbs on c-16 but do not have a map for it,,,,, Learning ??

Hi Romans, I fanally had chance to try the map you sent over, I rode it back from work and had to be really careful it was going really lean when I went above 20% throttle, spiking momentarily to about 17.1 .....miles too weak.Then goes across to about 12.0:1 and it hesitates like its not getting fuel too!!!
I was really careful to get back off the throttle immediately, no damage done.......
Need to have a closer look, fuel was set to 37psi....(might just check the guage) Im wondering if my turbo getts boost a bit earlier, it runs at about 0.0 around 2500rpm then gently goes into boost. It climbs to about 2psi on open throttle at about 4000rpm.
Also Im not happy about the stability of the fuel pressure, it climbs with boost but when ever i set it now it has a tendancy to rise a few pounds to 2,3, or 4psi whilst idling. increasing from where it was set then stabalising around that area whilst running.ie set at 37psi whilst cycling the pump then running rises to 40 41psi at idle.
Time to give some careful attention to the detail ..........do you have a profile of how you set your pressure curve.
With the sensor I am using it runs from 1.63volts to just over 3.28volts at 10psi and it would be good to compare curves.
Do you run an LCD screen on your bike?
Comments welcome
Grin

Hi Romans, I fanally had chance to try the map you sent over, I rode it back from work and had to be really careful it was going really lean when I went above 20% throttle, spiking momentarily to about 17.1 .....miles too weak.Then goes across to about 12.0:1 and it hesitates like its not getting fuel too!!!
I was really careful to get back off the throttle immediately, no damage done.....

Yikes. Before you Run any map made by others !!!!!!

My Trick For Testing Maps Made By Others is as follows;

1. First I check the AFR table in the map I'm testing.

2. Look closely at Idle AFR #'s.

3. With bike running and Auto-Tune Turned Off, Turn in or out the idle fuel pressure on set screw from RRFPR until my AFR gauge #'s matches the table made by others. Does this make sense ? Fuel pressure #'s may be quiet different but solid AFR #'s is what we are after. Perfect Starting place for Auto Tune to take over.

Here in Toronto we are 76 meters above sea level so 02 is always going to be diff. That's one reason why what works for one may not work for the other but still great place to start using trick above.

I was really careful to get back off the throttle immediately, no damage done.......

Yep, the feel of the bike is more important than gauge. #'s on gauge may be slow to react so get out of it. All Good.

Im wondering if my turbo getts boost a bit earlier, it runs at about 0.0 around 2500rpm then gently goes into boost. It climbs to about 2psi on open throttle at about 4000rpm

Ok, good info. We know that Turbo pressure is built under load. In your case you are placing more load sooner than I am due to your 18/41 gearing. I was very surprised how much of a diff it makes.

Also wondering what your Turbine AR is ????? IHI- VF-34 AR is .63 You are making boost just above idle, ????? Wow. Must be diff turbine housing ,,,, .48 ?????

My boost comes in at 3200 to 3300 RPM if I stab WOT. 4800 to 5000RPM when not driving like a mad man. Much Different so Map is much Different.

Grin Turn all fuel cells in map to ZERO below your starting boost level.

2. Ride bike slowly up to 1-lb boost. Watch your fuel pressure gauge. It will see the boost in air box before your AFR gauge reads 1-lb. If not, turn in blow off screw. Insure you have fuel pressure climbing before you see a full pound of Boost. Then proceed This must be done before you can move forward.

If this is not done Exactly you will not have enough fuel pressure under boost condition early in your maps, hence lean condition. Get this sorted First. At one pound boost my fuel pressure is around 45 psi and rises quickly to 95.

Also Im not happy about the stability of the fuel pressure, it climbs with boost but when ever i set it now it has a tendancy to rise a few pounds to 2,3, or 4psi whilst idling. increasing from where it was set then stabalising around that area whilst running.ie set at 37psi whilst cycling the pump then running rises to 40 41psi at idle.

Mine is the same, grrrrrrr BEGI is my next purchase. Cold Fuel also makes different. Small thin piece of metal in regulator moving because it was made by a butcher. I will fix this winter.

With the sensor I am using it runs from 1.63volts to just over 3.28volts at 10psi and it would be good to compare curves.

I will take a look. Was it not visible in the maps I sent you ?

Do you run an LCD screen on your bike?

No, AFR Gauge only. See Pic

Comments welcome
Grin

Just don't blow up. Would hate to have my house burned down lol

Grin if I can Help in any way I will, but the most important part is up to you. Sounds like you have a good handle on it . Cheers

* Last updated by: Romans on 9/23/2012 @ 7:04 AM *

Romans, I dont think that was a map with using the map sensor as primary fuel control it seems that it is TPS contolled but I will email you a copy of what I am working on at the moment, its a map sensor controlled map. but I need to move the pick up point of my map sensor to the same line as the standard map sensor so that the PCV can see what is the vacuum or boost condition in the area between throttle body and valves. Leaving the sensor in the frame/air box would give the lean condition often discussed. The overlap in the same pick up as the standard sensor should remove that changeable condition when the throttle plate is closed giving vacuum, and the air box being in a boost condition, this way the engine shoulod get rid of the discrepancy between the two and just maybe get rid of the backfire too.......
This is the way we do it on our cars.....we still monitor air box pressure but its not involved with controlling fuel.

Ill let you know.
By the way take a look at the boost verses afr table Im only guessing at the moment and it still needs alot of work doing to it but I will progres.....comments please and any suggestions, its hard to convert from tps control!
Ill send the map tonight
Grin

Message and map sent......
Thanks Grin

but I need to move the pick up point of my map sensor to the same line as the standard map sensor so that the PCV can see what is the vacuum or boost condition in the area between throttle body and valves.

I tried this early on but stock map sensor has one way blow off check in play and would only let my sensor see vacume. Remove blow off to stock map sensor and Ecu sees pressure and retards timing. Maybe install sensor diff location than in the same hoses used for stock sensor ?

Leaving the sensor in the frame/air box would give the lean condition often discussed.

Mapping with TPS can also solve this when you know exactly when your boost comes in under load or no load. Need Both points in the open loop placed in your map. Primitive but works.

this way the engine shoulod get rid of the discrepancy between the two and just maybe get rid of the backfire too.......

Not sure how, as the ECU still has fuel cut in play ? Backfire comes in when fuel is turned back on. I have No Back Fire. TRE006A telling ECU bike is in (N) so the ECU does not shut fuel off then back on for emissions ? Works.

By the way take a look at the boost verses afr table Im only guessing at the moment and it still needs alot of work doing to it but I will progres.....comments please and any suggestions, its hard to convert from tps control!
Ill send the map tonight
Grin

Awesome.

Warped front discs, damm!
Any suggestions?
Grinner

Braking SK would be my Fav

* Last updated by: Romans on 10/4/2012 @ 1:45 PM *

Hi guys sorry to ask
But I have a zx14 an 08 model
At around 2500rpm it breaks down like a miss but if I roll on the power it stops at around 2700rpm
In every gear at same rev
I have change spark plugs
And fuel pump an filters and air filter , and had the coils check at temp , and had the computers check an read out on the whole bike and it tell me it's clear .
Mapping done
And just had a dyno tune and they couldn't work it out , I don't think much of dyno tunes lol.
Not sure wear to go from here .
Looking at buying another power commander .
Guys can you help as I enjoy my bike up to now lol

Bad as much as I love it stop posting pictures of my immediate family!!!!