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Thread: CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?

Created on: 12/03/09 04:49 PM

Replies: 498

Rook


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RE: CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?
04/21/13 8:14 PM

of course. We all heard 12 years ago that this was a war that could have no end. Life as we knew it is GONE. A new reality.

I'm proud of the way the rest of the passengers handled that. That is the only defense. The enemy is one or two and we will fight back one or two at a time. People will die but they won't give away their lives without fighting. Maybe we civilians will develop anti-terrorist defense/retaliation tactics. Not the way I want to live but the choice is not mine.


* Last updated by: Rook on 4/21/2013 @ 8:15 PM *



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE Now Deceased

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Grn14


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RE: CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?
04/21/13 9:17 PM

Exactly how I feel about those Boston bombings..."chechen Muslims"...okay...the whole Muslim world...Al-Queda and those anyway...were watching our response to it...learning...studying.It's for real alright.Take out a few Americans...those bombs could have been much worse..we know that...horrible as they were.Look at some of those bombs in Iraq in those populated places..I mean...on youtube...check em out....Catastrophic explosions...vehicles PACKED with materials..Had that been in Boston....WAY more would have died.They're testing...learning.Watching.Sad state of affairs yes...but....We can't underestimate these hate groups.They want it all....and they are here...planning.They have much bigger plans than those Boston Bombs.....WAY bigger.


* Last updated by: Grn14 on 4/21/2013 @ 9:19 PM *

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alg8er


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RE: CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?
04/22/13 12:23 AM

The internet is chock full of info, so why believe everything you read without doing some research? First this is from 2009, second they weren't known to be Muslims, third it wasn't a cellphone, and on and on.

snopes

inside air trans


* Last updated by: alg8er on 4/22/2013 @ 12:25 AM *



Before your criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you do criticize them, you're a mile away and have their shoes.

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ZX14MAN64


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RE: CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?
04/22/13 8:34 PM

Yes, I was just telling my fiance' this will do even more damage to the general, maintream American's opinion of the Muslim faith as a whole.

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Grn14


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RE: CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?
04/22/13 9:37 PM

Unfortunately...that's exactly what they want...an "us or them' mentality.Only for them...they will die for their ideals.Not that we won't,but.....you won't see any Americans running off to the Emirates and blowing themselves up for their beliefs.

I think(maybe I'm totally wrong here)....the Jihadist Muslims do NOT want any kind of friendship with the Americans,or Brits...or Jews....you name it...anything not Muslim.Hell,they can't even stop killing their own.They aren't interested in 'getting along'....and like was mentioned...the whole shebang carries the blame for some.I'd think the moderate Muslims would be up in arms about this whole terrorist deal that's been going on now for...well...centuries really.They're afraid to step up...over there...I can see why...but here?No excuse really.I'm sure LOTS of Muslims are deeply concerned about how their "religion' has been villified because of these others going against the Faith.And they are....Jihad is about internal struggle...NOT armed and murdering struggles.The hate mongers started that....centuries ago.

"maintream American's opinion of the Muslim faith"...means...ZERO to these radicals...in fact...the more we act as if we dislike this whole thing...the happier they really are.Americans do not hold the same values these ones do.That's why it's hard to understand "why" someone would do such things...but to them...it's their life's goal...to kill the Infidels....wherever.They don't consider us...or even their own as 'people'...only points adding up to 'heaven'....

Their "religion' can NEVER work...it's based on 'pure Muslim Lives'...and who judges that?Imperfect Muslim people.They can't even accept the different 'sects' amongst themselves.So WHO is gonna be 'left' and around to live in this "Muslim Utopia'?One person?Their 'religion' is designed for bloodshed....not for peace.Ask Mohammed.


* Last updated by: Grn14 on 4/22/2013 @ 9:46 PM *

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Romans


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RE: CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?
04/23/13 5:04 AM

Their "religion' can NEVER work...it's based on 'pure Muslim Lives'...and who judges that?Imperfect Muslim people.

But still is the fastest growing religion in the world. Spreading hate seems to be working just fine ?

Their 'religion' is designed for bloodshed....not for peace.Ask Mohammed.

This is what makes it so sad IMO.

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Grn14


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RE: CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?
04/23/13 10:55 AM

"Spreading hate seems to be working just fine ?"...yes.Their ideals won't change because they've been indoctrinated to be 'the victim'.They have vast resources around them...plenty of things to do to make their neighborhoods and cities very safe and prosperous.The West doesn't hate them....

Long as they continue down this hate road....they will NEVER get free and know what enjoying life is about.Very sad IMO....so much repression of their own.No wonder they're pissed.They can't seem to get along with their own people...how the heck do they expect ANY nation to step in and say..."okay...enough's enough"...the top clerics and all preach "it's the infidels fault'....not..."hey guys...let's get these cities fixed and get to living right".It aint gonna happen...too many haters there.They have the resources to build...plenty of manpower....technology...so what's stopping them?Not us.Not Britain.Not France.It's easier to blame than it is to work.Look at all the people out there on the streets and all...protesting...whatever.Why aren't they holding down construction jobs and all.We have to come in there and 'fix' everything for em?I don't think so.But they do.Then they attack us and make it impossible to carry out any rebuilding or whatever.It's a sick sorry cycle...only they can change it...not us...not anyone else.So they resent our help...okay...fine...then get busy living instead of dying.

They're making the world get tired of their behavior.THE WORLD.Not just a few countries.The converts...yeah....people without direction....there's a LOT of people of all ages without real direction.Islam is taking advantage of this....you don't REALLY think those top clerics(who're eating just fine)really BELIEVE all that mumbo jumbo do ya?I don't.If they don't say what the people want to hear...they're dead.Plain and simple.Very sad.

I honestly don't know if they can be 'good Americans"...I mean...who ARE Americans?Christian?Jewish?Catholic?IDK....we're NOT a religion here.We cherish freedom.Islam's 'freedom' depends on destroying 'infidels'...so IDK....just doesn't seem possible to me being a full on Islamist and following the "American" way of life...I don't see how really.You don't have to be a Christian or whatever to 'accept' your neighbor....they have Allah...okay...so what's the big deal about accepting others who may not?I don't see it.I's think having 'Allah"(if he's so great and all)would be plenty enough for them....what more do they need?

I mean...in the 'Christian' faith...you may or may not 'share' your personal beliefs with others...and that's fine.God isn't condemning any Christian for not running around shouting HIM from the rooftops.There's place and time for everything.Christians(here)aren't killing unbelievers....geez....they may be somewhere else...which would be going against the tenants of God's will anyway according to the Bible.Murdering unbelievers is NOT the plan of the Living God.Why would he desire to destroy His own worksmanship?He wouldn't....plain and simple.He's the Champion of Life,not death.


* Last updated by: Grn14 on 4/23/2013 @ 11:14 AM *

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Anrkizm95


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RE: CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?
05/12/13 6:14 PM

judging all muslims based on the actions of a few is like judging most christians based in the actions of westboro baptist church.both christians and muslims have engaged in hate and terrorism.a better question is can any goverment official be a good american.


* Last updated by: Anrkizm95 on 5/12/2013 @ 6:18 PM *

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Romans


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RE: CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?
06/28/13 11:26 AM

Click


England is ours.By 2066 it will officially be an Islamic state as? we`re outbreeding Christians.Why are we doing this?Simple. To stop Britain bombing the middle east. How can the British government bomb the middle east in 2066 if its MUSLIMS who are in government? They wont, simple! Why else do you think we came to these lands? To integrate and assimilate?To enrich your economy? Bullshit,we`re here to take control of the country by outbreeding you, its been our agenda since day one!
Allah Akbahr!


* Last updated by: Romans on 6/28/2013 @ 11:30 AM *

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Grn14


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RE: CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?
06/28/13 10:17 PM

I can tell ya right now...the way they're murdering each other over there...all across the middle east...I don't think we have anything to worry about in regards to mass Muslim takeovers.Shit..they can't even stop their OWN from killing each other.That may be the plan...what he said...but reality shows they can't stop killing their own...Look what Assad's doing.How about Saddam.And the rest of those guys tramping down the average citizen's rights....killing Muslims.Shites against Kurds against Sunnis against Christians...you name it....they can't stop their bloodshed.They'll never get it together enough to fulfill that plan.


* Last updated by: Grn14 on 6/28/2013 @ 10:18 PM *

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alg8er


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RE: CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?
06/29/13 1:03 AM

"The Muslim population of Eastern European countries appeared to soar between 1990 and 2000, but the most likely explanation is that the population didn’t really grow – it’s just people felt more comfortable about identifying themselves as Muslim after the collapse of the communist system, in which religious self-expression was discouraged.

Similarly, some commentators have suggested that part of the apparent leap in the number of Muslims in England and Wales can be explained by a reaction to the “war on terror” and a growing willingness for people to claim Muslim identity.

The Muslim Council of Britain has said that the 2001 figure was an underestimate, because Muslims were reluctant to identify themselves as such at the time.

Nevertheless, it seems likely there has been a real increase in the Muslim population of Britain, due to a mixture of immigration and higher birth rates.

Mr Cooper concentrates on the issue of birth rates, and basically suggests that if fertility among Muslim women continues to be higher than other demographic groups, then extending current trends into the future will give us a Muslim majority by 2050.

That flies in the face of evidence which shows that, while fertility rates have historically been significantly higher among Muslims, birth rates are now dropping among Muslim immigrant populations in Europe and in Muslim countries.

Birth rates levelling off

A 2007 study by demographers Charles Westhoff and Tomas Frejka identified the same trend among Muslim immigrant populations in most countries where data was available, including Austria, Slovenia, the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, Switzerland and England and Wales.

The total fertility rate among Muslim women is almost always higher than that of the native population, but “with the passage of time Muslim fertility moves closer to the fertility of the majority of the population in the respective countries”.

In this country, the study tracks changing fertility rates among women from Pakistan and Bangladesh (assumed to be overwhelmingly Muslim).

Women from Pakistan and Bangladesh tend to have more children, but the fertility gap shrinks over the decades.

The US Pew Forum think-tank predicts that this gap will continue to diminish in the coming decades in all European countries.

It put the 2005-10 fertility rate among UK Muslims at 3.0, which means that the average British Muslim had exactly three children in her lifetime, compared to 1.8 children for non-Muslim women.

By 2030 the rate is predicted to fall to 2.5 for Muslims and remain at 1.8 for non-Muslims.

Clearly this does suggest that there will be an increase in the size of the Muslim population, but the prediction comes a long way short of the numbers claimed by Mr Cooper.

Assuming patterns of net immigration do not change significantly, the Pew Forum thinks that there will be just over 5.5 million British Muslims, representing 8.2 per cent of the UK population, by 2030.

None of this is an exact science, and some demographers say total fertility rate overestimates the lifetime fertility of immigrants because it doesn’t adjust for the fact that they tend to have children soon after arriving.

The verdict

Birth rates among native-born women are currently low across most of Europe and the developed world in general.

Demographers think a fertility rate of about 2.1 children per woman on average is necessary for the population of a developed country to sustain itself.

Most of the “native” populations of Europe are failing to have enough children, while birth rates are higher among Muslim immigrant populations, so it seems inevitable that the British Muslim population will rise in the coming decades.

But it’s equally clear that the gap in fertility between Muslim and non-Muslim will continue to lessen over time, as it has in recent decades.

Mr Cooper suggests that there are “strong cultural reasons for higher Muslim birth rates”, but this ignores the fact that birth rates have fallen dramatically in many Muslim countries.
"
FactCheck wouldn’t bet on the British Muslim population ever topping 10 per cent, let alone 50 per cent."



Before your criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you do criticize them, you're a mile away and have their shoes.

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Wolfman



Joined: 03/29/13

Posts: 6714

RE: CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?
07/03/13 4:59 PM

A late ring in, I am sensing the basic theme here, ie zionism and islamic interpretations that move to exclude. I see no reason why muslims can't make exemplary Canadian and American citizens. There are religious fundamentalists in every religion and cult, heck even amongst agnostics. Those who interpret holy gospel and an instrument of violence and selective destruction! So I am a bit reluctant to paint every faith or faith follower with one brush. I have lived with Muslims, Catholics, Atheists and I find there are extreme to moderate nut bars all across the faith spectrum. I have also met some extraordinary wise and gentle faith followers that are a credit to their belief. Most believers of the Holly Koran will tell you, that the faith is about servitude to God and love for fellowship and relationship building for peace and love, sounds kinda Christian to me. This maybe an incredible moderate stance and I apologize if I over simplify the issues in this thread, but I approach and treat everyone based on the respect they show for other people and the respect they reciprocate with me.

Yes there is a greater global context, wrapped in politics, and a socio-historical perspective of hatred and exclusion. There has been a pattern of perpetuated terrorism. Yes there are many examples of extremists and fundamentalists that have waged horrific acts in the name of god and belief. I just hope that these horrible experiences do not lead us to broadcast continued prejudice and hate to all people Muslim or not!

I do not follow a religion, I was raised Catholic and since 18 discontinued with church. I believe there is a God, I do not follow any religion. In my occupation I interact with many faiths races and cultures and I would further more good examples from these interactions then negative ones.

I am ready to stand in front of the cross-hares, but I wanted to post my small perspective.

Mad love brothers...







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Romans


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RE: CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?
07/03/13 8:12 PM

I see no reason why muslims can't make exemplary Canadian and American citizens.

I too see no reason, yet here we are.

So I am a bit reluctant to paint every faith or faith follower with one brush

No one should be painted with any brush IMO. It's a life choice that some choose to wear.

I have lived with Muslims

So have I,, until recently. Yes I moved. Had to.

I am ready to stand in front of the cross-hares,

Spend some time south of 14th, report back lol

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Hub


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RE: CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?
07/16/13 3:43 PM

C30?
See HA LA?
See 72?

Sea, WATTitie Tells Use?

Signed,
NOLTT



Tormenting the motorcycling community one post at a time

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Grn14


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RE: CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?
07/16/13 8:05 PM

"I see no reason why muslims can't make exemplary Canadian and American citizens"...they could...IF....their pure religion allowed the acceptance of non-muslim peoples.But it doesn't.It just doesn't.That's the issue really.Not whether they're good people or not.What IS the credo of a true Muslim?It certainly isn't 'forgive'.That's OUT.And without that....what's left?Just ask the insurgents...and the clerics.

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Romans


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RE: CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?
02/04/15 6:47 AM

Poke the bear UGH ! My E-Mail is full of passed on E-Mails showing horrific pictures. The world is not Happy. Don't like where all this is heading

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Grn14


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RE: CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?
02/04/15 7:34 AM

I watched a video(netflix)about Islam.(several actually)that were done a while back.It was interesting that in a lot of places that are now being 'destroyed' by the Radicals that the regular population said in several interviews that they 'used' to have kind,loving relationships with their fellow Christians and all.Living side by side and treating each other like family...like here in the West.Religious creeds never entered into anything...all that changed when the Radicals came and began setting up their Hard line Islamic beliefs.The people were greatly saddened by this.Muslims,Christians...Jews...they certainly didn't hold hatred on it's pedestal like these Groups do.Not all Muslims that believe in the Koran share the radical viewpoints of these guys.

These acts are definitely putting a nail in the coffin of "Islam"...but in reality...things have been this way in the Muslim world for centuries.The world isn't going to change this.That's why the Hard Liners don't WANT schools.Or higher learning.Blaming their woes on the West allows them to brainwash their kids...furthering the hatred they feel.Knowledge would destroy this system.It's so messed up,one faction can't even come to a 'truce' with another...even claiming that they both believe in the same god.They always say in there talk..."God the merciful"...I'm not seein this...and the world isn't either.I would have to deduce that these Radicals aren't interested in actually solving anything...or building a 'kingdom for god'.Their goal is to spread as much hatred as possible...so more blood is shed.That's their goal.To shed blood.Bunch of murderers...that what they're really about.Stealing food and all and killing any one who says anything about their acts.They even go so far as to say the muslims that get caught in the crossfire are martyrs.Or those they kill(muslims)are giving their lives for the greater good of Islam...So they don't feel any remorse killing their own..they consider it an honor for the victims.This isn't Islam.This is calculated wickedness....no different than Hitler.


* Last updated by: Grn14 on 2/4/2015 @ 7:39 AM *

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Maddevill


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RE: CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?
02/04/15 10:51 AM

As far as I'm concerned, ALL religion has caused pain and suffering through the ages. I have no problem with having faith.

Mad



Owner of KNGKAW.

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Romans


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RE: CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?
02/04/15 12:11 PM

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Rook


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RE: CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?
02/04/15 4:18 PM

Their goal is to spread as much hatred as possible...so more blood is shed.

It worked on me. I hate 'em. I have no sympathy. I go as far as to dream of ICIS prisoners dying exactly the same way and have it videoed and disseminated on the web. Pretty rough but that's just how I feel. I know it will never happen. Thank God most Americans have more sense than I do.

I must ad that the good Muslims I know (I assume they are Muslim) are nice people I'm glad to be acquainted with. The extremists can all go to hell.



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE Now Deceased

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Grn14


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RE: CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?
02/04/15 8:12 PM

"It worked on me. I hate 'em. I have no sympathy"..yup..and they want that as well...the more hatred built up...the more blood will be shed...they don't really care if the West goes in and bombs or whatever....the goal is to kill innocents as well as others..remember...they believe all 'innocent' Muslims are martyrs.As they are.Very kind and merciful to make that call on the hapless victims of their bloodlust.


* Last updated by: Grn14 on 2/4/2015 @ 8:13 PM *

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darryle


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RE: CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?
02/06/15 3:46 PM

in my lifetime there has always been an ethnic group that people discriminated against,a lot of times it was because they would take employment away from the average joe,usually the work was something 2nd,3rd and 4th generation north americans would not do,but they still bitched about it.ISIS is bringing a whole new meaning to our lives who knows where this will stop.Not worried about myself but about our kids.we are too complacent



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Rook


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RE: CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?
02/18/15 7:41 AM

ISIS is bringing a whole new meaning to our lives who knows where this will stop.Not worried about myself but about our kids.we are too complacent

Yes. I would not be a bit surprised if it went on indefinitely. Terrorism doesn't go away by policing it. A purely defensive approach inevitably leads to a successful attack by the enemy.

I have always had BIG reservations about hawkish political candidates but I hope to god we have the most aggressively militaristic leadership in the future. I don't mean conventional warfare. I'm talking about fighting fire with fire. I want to see real damage happen to muslim extremists. We have prisoners in Guantanamo and we should be starting there instead of letting them have prayer time. All I hear is we are a christian nation and we do not engage in terrorism. We are a nation of religious freedom and this is war. Whatever needs to be done to fight the enemy us an act of war and I'm in full support of doing the exact same kinds of things back to them that they do against us and out allies. I know it will only get worse and more disturbing and I know we may not win.. There are very likely thousands of enemies walking around among us right now. I'd still rather go down fighting and fighting hard. If anyone can tell me why I'm wrong, please do. Already heard the "we just don't do things that way" explanation but that really does not explain a thing. I accept eternal war. Sucks but if that's the way it is, so be it.



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE Now Deceased

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tooncinator


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RE: CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?
02/18/15 8:34 AM

Read a good analysis on the reason behind the extreme and media produced killings by ISIS. The motivation is to force everybody to take one side or the other and cause a global war to bring about the end times. The actions are meant to keep countries and their populations off the fence. It is a reasonable explanation.

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yannih


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RE: CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?
02/18/15 10:05 AM

A huge part of the issue apart from the obvious is the do gooders.

When It was Sydney's turn to experience this putrid side of humanity, many Australians came out with a slogan
"We'll ride with you", referring to supporting the "good Muslims" and the fact that they should not be judged and percecuted because of the actions of a minority.
This even started during the siege on social media.
So while families and friends were watching their loved ones in horrific situations and not knowing whether they would live or die, we were riding with the Muslims.
Not riding with the victims, but riding with the Muslims.
No doubt the extremists watching from around the world would have been holding their sides from guteral laugher.
"We kill them and they ride with us. How weak and soft is our enemy".
The reason we can never ever win against these extremists is we want to fight a huge fire with no more than drops of water. The do gooders will never let us react in the only way this enemy and their culture will understand.
When the next siege starts with extremists holding hostages and making radical demands, go out and round up their familes and their families families, and parade them where the extremist can see them and advise that for every innocent life taken, 5 family members will be executed.
The extremist would listen. And more importantly they would understand.
But we all know that will never happen.
And so do the extremists therefore they have very little to fear when they wage their campaign of terror.
And if we happen to catch them, the do gooders dictate we must treat them humanely and give them a fair trial.
And if found guilty we should try to rehabilitate them. Allow them their right to pray and wear their religious garb.
All this instead of throwing them in a pit of pain, letting them rot and making their lives a living hell as punishment for their unforgivable actions against innocents.

Lastly, general Muslims often are offended when they are mentioned in the same sentences as extremists.
But when have any Muslims, good, bad or in between ever outed any of their own who were on the verge of a taking innocent lives via a substantial terrorist campain or attack?
Why doesn't every single good Muslim come out with strong condemnation against these actions rather than the muttering of a few?
Why is there no Muslim entity fighting internally against this virus from within that is perpetrated in the name of what they believe?
Well, perhaps if you readily accept a religious belief where apostacy is strongly suggested and recommended, which is where the penalty of death is handed to any family member including your son or daughter who take their own decision to turn their back on the Muslim doctrine, then you must therefore in some way support every action that is in the name of your faith.
If you are willing to sacrifice your own for your beliefs, whats a few innocents in the name of what you dedicate your life to going to matter?

I really wish I could see some kind of light at the end of the tunnel, but unfortunately I just see a dark blackness...


* Last updated by: yannih on 2/18/2015 @ 10:28 AM *



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