I have never understood that "need" to feel accepted or be a part of a group. Can anyone explain it to me?

* Last updated by: Wolfman on 9/1/2014 @ 5:51 AM *

Agree with both Rook and Wolfman

I think being part of a group (even a "group" like that ) must provide them a sense of purpose, belonging, and self-worth that was more than likely, missing in their lives

In Everyone, as rook said, its innate within us to feel part of something or else you're not "complete".

But to throw away your potential place in society as a whole in order to be a part of something like that is rather messed up and to me, shows extreme desperation.

Just my take on it.

The members that do hold respectful jobs but are also a member of those gangs, how do they explain that if your boss happens to see you with in all that garb? What if you and your "brothers" are out and about with your leather and colors flying, and you happen to come across a your father in law?

Lol I'd be embarrassed and would rethink my decision. But that is just me

* Last updated by: ZX14MAN64 on 9/1/2014 @ 6:27 AM *

[quoteNot to get all heady and off topic on this but I think that is a basic need for 99.99% of we humans (whether we like to admit it or not).

Think about what you are good at, what you love to do. Would you still do it if it had no purpose to any other person in your tribe? I know a lot of artists. When they surpass the level of amazing themselves with their own work, they stop doing it unless there is a purpose for their work within a community. There are exceptions, but I think almost everyone wants to "fit in" by being accepted as the tribal representative of a certain role. Most of us find a healthy outlet in mainstream society. Gangs members are people who have no purpose in mainstream society at all. The gang is a spinoff culture where the members find a purpose and fulfill their need to fit in.[/quote]

I'm much more the loaner type. I generally lead myself. I don't want to lead others particularly, but I definitely don't want to follow others either. Given the choice, I'll lead. Popularity is not my criteria for leadership, as it is in most social group or click of friends.

From a psychological standpoint, what seems to be the case is most people have the psychological need/insecurity to be accepted by others. A lot of it stems from insecurity, that not being liked by others is abnormal. Even as a young person, I noticed how different adult friendships were compared to childhood friendships. Adults friendships tend to be based much more on either you can do something for me, or you can't. Even it's just you can entertain me. Rarely (maybe 1 example in my adult life) do I see adult friends that are truly just friends like a couple 10 yos.

Gangs are very similar. A lot of gangs bring in weaker people to use/abuse them, but the weaker person accepts it to be accepted and be a part of the gang. Not too much unlike an insecure woman accepts being abused because she loves her man and know he doesn't mean it.

* Last updated by: VicThing on 9/1/2014 @ 7:36 AM *

It's kinda like the reason some of us post our accomplishments to this forum

Meh... I see that angle somewhat, but I dont "NEED" to be told that my times are good. I KNOW that they are and it's just more of a conversation piece amongst other 14R owners. It's an added layer of interest that I am producing numbers on the exact platform that others are riding. I post up ET with the thought process of " I think the guys will think this is cool seeing that they are riding the same bike". Almost like it's an accomplishment for all of us. I enjoy posting here because there are some good guys here that are well grounded and fun to banter with. Cheers guys. Stay safe.

"You meet the nicest people on a Harley"

Lol

The "accomplishments" comment was not aimed at you Mav, I was meaning it, in the general sense. I like getting updates on your times and such. But the forum brings all of us like minded enthusiasts together. Much like an enthusiast club. No arguing for or against this, and this is not some hidden recruitment strategy either. But many folks on here wear a zx 14 forum T shirt. It's getting people together and excited about the same topics, thoughts, achievements and concepts. MC's however go even farther by building a sense of family with a political leadership structure. And many MC's stay alive from the proceeds of illegitimate enterprise. Something as a family man I will not join. I don't judge the one percent crowd, but I'd be dammed if I were to drag a woman and kids into that lifestyle.

* Last updated by: Wolfman on 9/2/2014 @ 4:26 AM *

As for the lead and be led debate. I have held a few key positions of leadership in my life. They cross personal, friendship and professional lines. In all of these situations I have had to follow direction from others before giving direction to others. To be led and thus to follow,needs humility, but also the forethought of respect and the opportunity to gain from model or chaotic leadership. Good and bad leadership can teach and model great things. It takes a fair bit of living in this relationship of lead and be led to become a great leader (if that interests you). Good leaders recognize potential in others and encourage or foster that strength in their men. Good leaders listen to the group and make decisions that keeps men and women safe and moving forward sometimes with and sometimes by. The lone wolf strategy does not build confidence, nor experience in leadership - even the greatest practitioners and the intellectual gurus of this world had mirror confidants. I will affirm that I have also lost a decade of my life to the lone wolf adage. Within the H and A, police force, hospitals, and corporations - political or not, there are outstanding leaders. I've been very interested in what they have to teach and offer as I lead the most important enterprise on earth. "My family..."

* Last updated by: Wolfman on 9/2/2014 @ 4:34 AM *

I have held a few key positions of leadership in my life.

So have I. It started pretty early for me in fact. At 23, I was promoted to store manager for the ($100 million) company I was worked at during my first college stint. Reporting directly to the district manager and corporate operations, I was responsible for all operations of the store: sales, staff, vehicles, inventory, p&ls, budget, etc. I dropped out of college to accept the position. The main lure was the money of course.

After a year I decided retail management wasn't for me. It wasn't what I wanted to do. I resigned my management position accepted a position at the old store I worked at, and returned to college to continue my computer studies. I was employed 4 years with them, My first 1.5 years as pretty much grub work. But I did good work, brought success to the store I worked in, and being in college didn't hurt things.

In my current position, I have been/am a project lead for software development projects.

There is no one single correct way or style to lead. If that's the case, you might as well say there's only one single correct way to live life. Some believe to be a leader, you have to be a follower first, some don't. Some believe in the strength of teams, some don't. Some believe in micromanagement, some don't. And then there's dozens of other leadership attributes to consider (like being social etc.)

The most important quality for a leader is not the style of leadership they use. It's that they ultimately make decisions and stand by them. For me, the worst "leaders" are the ones who don't truly understand decision-making. Then when things go awry, pass off the blame on others. This is one of the problems with America. How many "leaders" do you know that really suck at making decisions and then blame others?

True and well stated!

I think a thread discussing something as hedonistic, chaotic, and immoral as biker gangs has gotten too intellectual

Lol

Having a BA in a Bus. Mgmnt, I Full agree on the many variations of effective managements styles