Here is a question that would like to find out. Any help would be appreciated. If my bike has a brocks full exhaust system (which is loud...I might go back to stock exhaust)is it a must to have a power command system or can I ride it like it is (currently I do not have a power command)...help

No need for a pc, Slowmo. Run as is, set off car alarms, loose pitch in your one ear... Go for it.

Most use a PC with a full exhaust. I don;t think going on the stock map will hurt it but you won't get the optimum performance either.

With a full system id say get a pc5 and tune. Or a flash and tune. She's gonna run ok, but probably will be running to rich on bottom and lean on top. With slipons not a real issue but with a full system a tune is highly recommended to get the most out of that expensive system you just bought.

I think it is easier to just go back to stock...a good thing is when I purchase the bike the stock exhaust came with it.....thanks

I wouldn't sell the Brock's too soon if you are into sport riding. The bike will feel noticeably heavier with OEM exhaust but you won't need a PC and it will be very quiet.

I think installing a PC would be less work than removing/installing an exhaust. The plug below the airbox is very tight but that is the only hard part. You will need to buy a PC. You can get a free map from Brock.

Slow, here is the long and drawn out:

We are an open looped bike. Our bike is tunable. If it came with an 02 we would be in closed loop and no matter what pc map you throw at it, it reverts back to the penultimate number or the Stoichiometric number of 14.7 or atmospheric zero, the fuel turns to water vapor or a harmless gas.

Under the seat we have a similar 02, but it's an elevation sensor. It senses when we ride up a mountain, have less air and that pressure turns the fueling to less fuel to match the matching process [of an 02] as to how to change the fueling. Since there is no sensor in the exhaust, but rather under the seat, we can pull those pipes right off and the bike will run just fine.

The next thing is when you install an AFR meter, plug the PAIR off and see the stock out the pipe is 14 AFR and with PAIR, the air is refired and the AFR runs in the 16 AFR. Lower the number the richer. That's one tune you can do without the pc is this 'for every action' a 16 AFR would have reentered the cylinder chamber, but you brought in a 14 or a 'richer reversion.' Trumped the pc tune is 1 down, one more to go.

When I lift, there is this vacuum causing effect on the intake air sensor. This lifting of, the closing of the main plates; the lower vacuum at that sensor; sends the AFR to a 13 AFR reading and this is the 2nd tuning step no one is catching is the lower the number the richer.

What the pc does is it moves the 14-no PAIR to a 13 to 12 AFR and that is where more gas is a stronger torque setting. This too brings a smoothing effect as you can tell by plugging off the PAIR and that rich reversion shows a change in air to fuel dynamics.

Once you understand some of this AFR [ratio] feeding of the beast, that pc is more of a doggie treat like bacon-bacon, bring on the pork or my piggy. So will a lean lift with PAIR in place hurt on lift? No. It's vacuum on lift that hits rich says: where do I need the pc?

I have a built in accel map on the OE side, I see that same heavy load on WOT is almost like lift and that load swinging the AFR needle rich. Do you still need a pc either PAIR'd or un-PAIR'd? No. If this for every action there is this fueling reaction still confuses you, install the stock pipe and when no one listens to turtle, he now says, 'it takes a Man to run stock pipes no pc.'

Also most likely if previous owner installed a brocks full system they installed a pc5 also. Unless they removed it. Remove left ram air cover and see if one is installed.

Rook...I am not trying to sale the brocks, just want a more quiet sound and im more into the dual exhaust style
hub.....whattttttttt...to advance for me but I'm learning
blkcasper..the seller said there is no power command ...here is picture of what it look like

* Last updated by: SlowmoZX14 on 7/31/2014 @ 1:08 PM *

Basically what Hub is saying is that it doesn't matter what you map you run on because the bike's imntake sensors will automatically adjust the fuel to however much air is coming into the engine. According to this, fuel maps and AFR tuning is irrellavent. I understand the notion that the bike will automatically adjust but if that's true, the maps and the flashes that have gone on for years are all a bunch of BS. I find that hard to swallow. I believe a lot of the talk about hp mods is inflated but they do make a difference. If your bike is not already heavily modded, you'll usually notice a change from one mod, especially on the top end. It's not like most mods done one at a time are going to take you off guard. Maybe boost, would. My 45 tooth rear sprocket makes a nice difference. The stock geared busa feels tame as hell now compared to the 14. ...but if you don't ride the bikes pretty hard, there's not too much difference, really. When you get a few good mods, that's when the bike is transformed.

I was just saying, "don't sell the Brock's" cuz i think you're going to want it back in a year or so. And it will cost you 2 large for a new one.

rook replied: I was just saying, "don't sell the Brock's" cuz i think you're going to want it back in a year or so. And it will cost you 2 large for a new one.......

what the....$2000 and I was just looking at the yoshimure r77 slip-ons ($890.00).....well either I go with the stock or maybe purchase a power command from brocks (just for the heck of it)and get used to the loud sound....hey, im just coming off a 250cc ninja so anything would be great (must be mid-life)

* Last updated by: SlowmoZX14 on 7/31/2014 @ 2:34 PM *

A full system will cost you more. I'm not in the market so I have not priced in a while. I'm pretty sure a new Brocks will be about 2000. Definitely for a CT system.

I wouldn't buy a slipon except for a cheap used one. Same reason, you'll want a full system eventually.

I think the most practical thing for you is to put the stockers back on. It will be a little heavier but you'll notice that most in very low speed maneuvering.

Get a Hindle stealth muffler from Brock not much louder then stock,no noise fatigueI switch can switch back and forth from the stealth to the evolution in 5 minutes

* Last updated by: darryle on 7/31/2014 @ 4:36 PM *

SlowmoZX14 said:
Hey, im just coming off a 250cc ninja. I think it is easier to just go back to stock...a good thing is when I purchase the bike the stock exhaust came with it. Just want a more quiet sound and im more into the dual exhaust style.

I think you just answered your own question.

According to this, fuel maps and AFR tuning is irrellavent. I understand the notion that the bike will automatically adjust but if that's true, the maps and the flashes that have gone on for years are all a bunch of BS.

1. I'm looking at a rheostat kind of measuring device.
2. I could send an arm off that level and call it a float.
3. The float's arm is on a wire. The more it rises to the next wire, there it went around another spiral and changed the resistance.
4. I have moved a mechanical; was wait for the weather to change. I have this [base] number and the Penultimate took a breath.
5. Page 3-58 shows I have a rectal thermometer up Penultimate's ass.
6. I can measure linear speed with the tone wheel off the crank. I am a stripped down rotor/stator or just one magnet and the rest of the full 360° is empty. I put out a wave length and that speed passing the magnet can be measured.
7. I am preset at the crank speed and those are many numbers as the next tooth picks up speed, passes over that magnet and changed the wave length. Like a stator/rotor, the faster it moves the more AC current it pushes out those wires.
8. I enter the ECU as a preset number and rpm/alt/water/air temp are linear numbers that keep changing.
9. I am the ECU and I am stuck with those numbers sent. So I take those that are within the range I wrote them as and out they go to those components: i.e., the spark and fuel numbers.
10 I went from many numbers to one number out the ECU, the pc captures that one number sent and changes it to another number.
11. I am a numbers man [pc]. I have no clue what this number goes to, does, just send me in a number and I will machine it to that number instead of what the ECU sent out.
12. I step as a-many/b-single/c-many/d-single/e-many.
a. Many means analog or the sensor puts out many numbers and it is step 1 is the analog in.
b. Single means the ECU or the single components in the black box are measured resistors and electricity is a balance.
c. Many means it left the ECU and it was balanced with the first input signal and that computed number is now the output number or the equal demand of the input you WOT the throttle say.
d. Single means the pc was the one who caught an 'analog' signal [out] and we are now back to a mini-ECU [the pc is processor like the ECU] or lots of diodes and resistors in a black box.
e. Many numbers are sent back out of the [pc's] black box as if it was daisy chained in the m-s-m-s as it steps from analog to digital to analog and eventually back to the injector with a different calculated binary [analog] number: this is not BS we just changed a jethink.
12. I work a certain way are the chips inside. I can write like a flash and write in new numbers and that is all she wrote is a processing of numbers converted to an AFR number.
13. I work like a carburetor or I mimic a carb in almost every way. Instead of changing the brass, I change a binary.
14. I am a no BS numbering system and I am in the absolute as far as measuring volts and if math is the language...
15... I have an anal thermometer that fits right up your alley, says it write here.

How close are we in the magnetic field we live in? The resistor is fixed. The magnetic pass of the tone wheel tooth is fixed at watt speed. You still think it's BS? a-N and D-J use watt number when all shit the bull is shut down here comes a wave length?

Signed,
Knock-knock, I'm on fire, hurry, step on me it's halloween!

Make sense or did I just leave a bag of BS on your doorstepee steps away.

* Last updated by: Hub on 7/31/2014 @ 5:09 PM *

... adjust the fuel to however much air is coming into the engine.

This is concept time. Explain to me 'however much air' means to you?

how ever much air is being let in according to throttle position...and I suppose that depends on altitude as well if you want to be precise.

What I got from the above list is that the sensors send their #s to the ECU and the ECU adjusts the fueling to optimize performance based on those #s. Then the adjusted fuel goes from the ECU to the PC which overrides the ECU suggested fueling. The PC just changes the fueling to whatever the PC map is set for and that;s what goes into the engine. Seems like it is a question of what kind of performance you want, Kawasaki street performance or custom tuned performance. Custom tune in the PC is not going to self adjust but it should work best for whatever purpose it was designed.

how ever much air is being let in according to throttle position...and I suppose that depends on altitude as well if you want to be precise.

Look an empty glass. Place a paper plate over it. I am going to compress whatever is in that container or cylinder chamber. When I open the valve, lift the paper plate, the same volume enters as the valve closes or the paper plate covers the top of the glass, a vacuum suck closes on that whole volume as if it was at idle and we filled it with liquid so you see the full filled volume and that is each time the intake closes.

Therefore, there is no less or more volume, it was how fast did you turn the light switch on? You are still going to get 100w out of the light bulb no matter how fast you turn the key on or wall switch, it's going to close on its full volume, no more or no less.

Volumefficiency call it is now this:

There is the same close of all that air, but the altitude change is the air has expanded and what is in between are less molecules to bang off of each other to touch some heat being too far and the gas goes rich. That means, how efficient was that volume? So once again, I think you can't process the rest as not to know FI uses 760mmHg or the Penultimate number is every time the valve closes, this is the number it calc's off of. So who changed in the volume fill of it? No change. Just expanded some and nature takes a balance as in magnetic filled is once again, a balance like electricity. So says 760mmHg as the backup number once all else fails.

_________________________________________________________________________________

What you said about the pig and ECU grabbing numbers sounds like you have that figure out some. To make it all come together is to grasp that volume reverting back to 0 once you think you can mechanically hold it? No way! If you had a turbo or blower forcing it in, then yes, more air. But the normally aspirated is seeing that piston come up and push out what was heading in. I see those two butting heads and time is slow even if you think that valve is going to close against, for every action there is an opposite before that valve closes. If you can see that [penultimeet and greet number], if you can see they use 760mmHg as the failed sensor number, it bleeds I close on 14.7 give or take the day's air pressure, etc., here comes the weather channel you turn the key on LOL

Custom tune in the PC is not going to self adjust but it should work best for whatever purpose it was designed.

Yes it will. Think about it. It is no different than the stock ECU making adjustments and sending those out. So the ECU sent out the data for that weather day/second. The pc is going to work like an 02 and keep that one custom number humming along as it sort of matches what the ECU puts out... It calc's off that output number from the ECU, it did not need to calc out all that weather report, but remain balanced at that number just like the ECU remains locked in that number brought in.

It's a faucet is the pc. All it's doing is setting the balance back out once again. So think in absolute balance is that ohm's wheel and the changed resistances. The calc has to balance or check engine like happens we go backup and use the Penultimate to calc off of.

The pc is going to work like an 02 and keep that one custom number humming along as it sort of matches what the ECU puts out... It calc's off that output number from the ECU, it did not need to calc out all that weather report, but remain balanced at that number just like the ECU remains locked in that number brought in.

"Sort of matches" but maybe pretty different. Some tuners create maps with very different #s than other tuners (Ivan for example)...so I would assume those custom tuned #s might be very different from the ECU in some cases and perhaps pretty similar or the same in other cases.

so I would assume those custom tuned #s might be very different from the ECU in some cases and perhaps pretty similar or the same in other cases

And therein lies the hub... I mean rub.

Fine is the line between cooking KHIs books and triggering failsafe mode with the obligatory limp.

Our enemy has yet to reveal himself.

Correct. I can see the map the pc5 came with and those have 0's in the cells and that means stock numbers in and stock numbers out. If say there is a number in a cell, or a row of numbers in a column, there is the change per cell number. If someone sets another number in those same cell blocks, this will change the AFR, yes. All that is left is how big a faucet turn is going to be made by the pc cell. This is this larger faucet setting in a binary number kind of way; the pc now sends it on its way out.

So job wise, I can milliamp the plunger to stay open a millisecond longer in a binary number setting kind of way. It is just a change of that binary number and how far a number out is another tuning story.

It's that simple, that complex.

So job wise, I can milliamp the plunger to stay open a millisecond longer in a binary number setting kind of way. It is just a change of that binary number and how far a number out is another tuning story.

In a nutshell, this is the advantage of the PCV over the ECU flash.

Zero limp.

If flashed correctly there is no limp. There is certainly no 'fail safe' mode. I'm not trying to cloud the issue with facts. But it sounds like the basic concepts of a flash are bein missed here. It gets to a point where you have to stop pontificating and actually do some tuning. What the heck is some fantasy larger faucet needed for? If the AFR is correct and the flash has been layered correctly with the restrictions removed. There is zero need to hook up a piggy back. None. Zero. Bike runs right. This is not complicated. Show me an AFR as clean as the many I have shown. Do that first. Then explain how you got there. I have seen and run 14's with and with out piggybacks. Without is a true tune. Complete. All maps and TC etc., working together not just as designed but smoother. I have ridden a 14R with a piggy, when TC-1 kicked in on dry pavement, it dang near ball slapped me up against the tank. A properly flashed ecu will have a more linear TC interupt. Why? Cause the maps are linked. The depth of the tune with a properly flashed ecu encompasses many more facets than just a PCV. Anything else looks like piggyback is involved in that AFR. Feels like it under load too. That's where the limp and the safe come in. It's where the dash codes come in when the maps don't like the splice. These are not my symptoms. I don't have that problem. I don't run a piggy. Why????

No limp. No safe mode. ALL maps unified between cylinders and in each separate gear. Creamy smooth thrust that allows the confident feeding in of power at any lean angle.

In a nutshell, this is the advantage of the PCV over the ECU flash.

However, the beauty of the pig is that outside output/input capture times 2 pcv maps over the flash. While the flash is stuck a 13a and cannot swap a change on the fly. You have the toggled pig maps set at 12a or a 14a thrown at the base flashed map. It's still the same ECU, but its point set is at 13a and the OE was at 14a.

So your toggle ability of the pig is preset for 2 hits over the flash, or autotune the flash is that either/or selection on the pcv mapping ability. Flash, pull over, pull of the back pack for the lapper, and start changing cells sitting off the road. There is no nutshell. It's all about the many ways to approach a way to tune that milliamp (jet size to you gas fingers).