Sorry KAK. No experience with clutches. IDK more than the basic principle with how they even work.

I've never changed plates...I've removed em...the whole basket and all...but never replaced.I guess you could number each one...then with the new ones...number them accordingly....do you have to soak the new plates in oil for like overnight or something?I think you might have to.In your motor oil you have in the bike.I'd mark the top of every part in that basket....so you get all the tabs and such lining up in the new set...couldn't be too hard to replace?I think you can take them all out like at one time...in one cluster...except for the very ones that are at the outmost part of the cluster...so you'd have to be careful and get the right ones where they're supposed to be.Just set em on the floor as a stack,then install the new ones back in just in the same order?I may be way wrong...what's the manual say?

Bikeland surely has some clutch repair guys over there....might hit em up.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/9/2012 @ 11:48 AM *

Once you have the stack out of the basket, feel with your fingers for any burrs on the notches in the outer basket. If there is any roughness that might hang the plates up, remove it with a fine file. Clean the steel plates and rotate them on a sheet of glass covered in 80 grit sandpaper to assure flatness and removal of glaze.

Read through your post twice now and think your problem is still in the master cylinder/slave.
Unless you have serious wear to your clutch hub and basket.
Something I didnt find at 25k miles of light abuse (heavy abuse being regular drag strip time).
After 25k miles on my clutch and decided to replace the plates as the stock springs were allowing slippage.
Did about a dozen track days and lots of 2 up touring so figured the plates would be showing wear.
I was replacing the weakass stock springs with Brocks springs.
I was wrong. The fiberplates were well within specs and steel plates showed NO discoloring, warpage or wear.
Another problem I have ran into in other bikes was wear (notching) on the clutch basket and hub (usually dirt bikes). That would cause problems similar to what you describe.
I didnt find any measurable wear on the 14s hub or basket.
And yes, it is wise to soak the fiber plates overnight or for at least a hour or 2. I usually use a CLEAN cut-off milk jug. I put about a quart of oil in the 'jug' and then the fiber plates in one at a time. As I assemble the clutch pack I dip the steel plates in the oil as I put them on. I wipe all the contact surfaces on hub & basket with a oily rag before installing plates.
Sounds like you are following the manual closely and if the stack height is right all should be right in the clutch assembly.
Dammed if I can remember which way the rounded edge goes....,looking in the oil fill hole it looks like the rounded goes in.....,ask your favorite mechanic.

* Last updated by: skiffman on 12/9/2012 @ 1:17 PM *

Did you contact Kawasaki and ask about the socket size for that?Call down to Irvine,Calif.Main Headquarters.The 29 won't fit...and the 30 IS a shade too big...although...you can get it to work...IF YOU'RE VERY CAREFUL.You won't get it loose without an impact I don't think...not with that 30....(unless someone here has done it....I'm not a fan of breaker bars on shafts like these).MAYBE...cut some small metal shims and stick em on the flats...maybe two of the six?Just to snug that socket up.Thin stuff...you know.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/9/2012 @ 9:26 PM *

Thanks Grn. Jeez. Everything has to be a PITA. Nothing simple.

Yeah...I know what ya mean...I still think that socket is a Kawasaki deal...something not 'out there' in the stores.I think someone over at Bikeland could tell ya exactly what size that socket is...and how to get that nut loose with a 30 if that's what they used.Mine worked(it was loose like yours)...but it may not for anyone else...odd as that sounds.Maybe I just got lucky...IDK.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/9/2012 @ 9:52 PM *

Maybe your clutch slave cylinder has some crud in it.May be time to strip/clean and rebuild that sucker.

Mad

I don't know...but if you're not seeing any odd coloration or 'wear' from those plates...I would seriously leave em alone...ferget removing that nut...and look another place..as mentioned FIRST.I don't think it's your plates either...these clutches are known for taking huge amounts of 'abuse'.Certainly yours hasn't seen that...yet.Slipping...only a few things it could be.Let me ask...did you change oil and then notice it doing this?This sounds like possibly...the oil you put in was NOT a wet clutch specific oil.Maybe.Are you losing fluid at the reservoirs?(level(s).Have you removed the slave unit recently when this started(or before).Or a mechanic?I'm thinking MAYBE...the slave is not allowing the piston to travel far enough when engaged.THAT could be the black spacer on the lower three bolts on there...spacer not sitting correctly.I'm just throwing these things out there...sometimes when working on em...we forget small things...like which way the 'face' of a spacer goes.Button everything up...it looks fine...and then.....ooops.

If you overtighten those three bolts on there...you WILL crack that spacer...a piece will fall out...then you have a crushed spacer,and a small place for leakage as well.Any fluid down under that trans on the slave side?

As for that socket...I do believe I did get an SAE socket to get close to that 29.5mm.Pretty sure I did.It wasn't in mm...

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/10/2012 @ 8:37 PM *

Can't imagine clutch wearing at 2000-3000 miles of "normal" use. Had similar issue on brake lever. Spayed some wd40 in and around lever at master and went away. Maybe some air in line?

So there is NO slipping of clutch? Just lever play? Maybe lever sticking. How are you bleeding? Good quality, brand new, unopened, sealed clutch fluid? Unless slippage or problems engaging gear/shifting, why think clutch plates? Or oil?

Any chance it could be related to air in system? When I bleed my clutch lines it at first had play in lever as I recall. Did this first occur before or after first clutch bleed? Did try spraying lubricant at lever hinge? If clutch not slipping or difficulty shifting, to me, is puzzling how it could be clutch plates. Did you talk to Kawasaki mechanic? Surely, still under warranty, right?

What I see in that lower diagram...you're measuring from the outside of the tang(A)....they have that one on the right there outlining the shape of the 'tang' and the measuring line going along the outside shape on the right.If that's any help?

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/14/2012 @ 10:39 AM *

Just wondering. Looking at those measuring points, why would the measure points show a tang on the right but no tang on the left? Seems like they provide a well detailed illustration so why would they show no tang?

* Last updated by: KAK on 12/14/2012 @ 11:43 AM *

Yeah...I noticed that as well...You have to pull the basket off with the plates...then remove the plates as a whole...I'd say...if it were me....I wouldn't mess with it.IMO...it's not your clutch plates doing it?

"If they ARE meant to be included that would add a total of .010 to .012". If so, then I won't swap one of my 2.6mm steels for the 2.9mm. Too close for me"....I'd say this is the right thing here.They are meant to be included.

"Seems like they provide a well detailed illustration so why would they show no tang?"...they do include the tang...on that other pic...this is a simplified diagram of the measuring points...the tangs are naturally all the way around the rings.They're assuming you are a Kawasaki mechanic and have done this at some point in your career.IDK why they show em at one point,and not another really...it's an engineer thing;)

One of those quirky deals someone had while creating the diagram I guess.It does actually show the tang in that smaller pic...on the bottom right....and on the top left...so it's showing that the tangs are there on both ends.Just a simpler way of showing it.(I guess???)It could be somewhat confusing if ya didn't actually see the clutch basket/plates right there in front of ya.But they're writing this to the Techs....it's a shop manual.They aren't expecting 'us' to be messing with this.(same deal as the socket size).

It's like in the manual...they say things like.."to the below"...well...what they mean is..."underneath"...just a Japanese way of saying the same thing.They understand it exactly...

You don't suppose maybe it's something very simple like the lever plunger or something?Those can wear and begin to 'deform'...which might explain why the lever is 'self adjusting' as you ride?You looked at that?...it's not mushrooming or something?Maybe a burr developing in that cavity?I really don't think it's your clutch plates.How about the pushrod from the slave into the clutch.That could be slightly warped or something?I really would look at your slave unit/parts...before yanking all the internals in the clutch assembly.It does sound like a pushrod is not seating or hanging up slightly.(or a lever pushrod).If you bled the whole thing correctly...it has to be something else.You say the plates and steels look good.I'd count them out then.You measured em..they were okay.

How about WHEN this deal happens...temperatures.Engine warm....or is it okay when 'cold'..then begins to develop as you start riding a bit?

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/14/2012 @ 12:40 PM *

Reason I say that...is because I had a defective m/c on my clutch one time..on my 07.The machined holes(inside) somehow weren't correct.It would shift and grab and all just fine...for about 15 minutes.Once the engine temp started to reach it's 'normal' range(this was in the mornings or stopping along the way to take a break)..it would start slipping.I know...not exactly the same thing...but.It wasn't working right.It seemed 'maybe' the heating of the fluid perhaps aggravated an already not okay unit...I replaced the master...lever and all...it worked perfect after that.

"friction bars"...I'm not sure what you mean with this.Steels?The whole shebang...whatever that includes...plates,steels...yup.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/14/2012 @ 2:27 PM *

The friction plates have small friction pads or bars along the edge. When you measure individual friction plate thickness, you place the tool on them.

Kak I can tell you from personal experience that the slightest difference in clutch plate thickness can make a big difference. I have a new gen cross-plane R1 that from the day I took delivery was very snatchy grabbing and almost everyone on the forum complained about. Graves was modding their own test bike and figured the pack was too thick and changed 1 plate swapped from an 07 pack. Yamaha actually sells this on their accessory site. After others had success I ordered the fix from Graves. I measured the pack just as you had and I couldn't see any difference at all. I did soak the plates for a day and installed. Smooth as butter. That being said, I never had any problem with lever play as you are and don't see how it could be caused from anything but bleed, or warped throw out bearing.

AV8ER, "warped throw out bearing". This could cause a problem that comes and goes as often and quickly as I described? I admit I know zero about this bearings role in the clutch operation, but wouldn't a warped bearing result in a problem that's there 100% of the time? If it could be the bearing, where is it located? Thanks for the reply.

No, your probably right. The throw out bearing, this term more refered to in a car clutch, is in our bike more commonly called the "pusher" and longer now than the real actual bearing. But I suppose that if it was warped or bent, the pack which moves up and down around it could hang up on it. Do you hear much clutch noise while in neutral and the clutch out? Try pulling in the lever slowly while at idle to listen to abnormal sounds and if you can reproduce your lever gap. If all appears normal, the problem still would seem to point towards a bleed issue which you have appeared to have already worked this possible solution to great ends. Maybe faulty master cylinder?

Not to hijack thread just a quick question...i have some better springs coming...is it pretty easy to change them?
Ive changed them in a ZRX 1200 and all i did was take the cover off and change em...any unforseen differences on the 14?

Bike on side stand so the oil is to one side.
Remove one spring at a time and use a star pattern from one farthest bolt to the next.
It says to use blue locker, so your call using it on assembly.
If you can feel how tight those screws were, attempt a hand torque to it, or with the wrong torque wrench you could tear out a thread. Between the stronger spring and the threads being pulled out, better the hand feels how much tight is tight.

If you can feel how tight those screws were, attempt a hand torque to it, or with the wrong torque wrench you could tear out a thread. Between the stronger spring and the threads being pulled out, better the hand feels how much tight is tight.

good tip. I made the mistake of using stock torque value for after market rotor bolts in an aftermarket rim. I busted the bolt head off. That would be a nightmare to fix here.

I'm not sure about the thread locking agent. There will be oil all over everything. I guess I'd want to use it if the bolts are not too tight but clean all the oil out of the thread hole with some solvent on a Q-tip swab. If the bolts are sort of tight, I might go without thread locking agent. There may be some of that pink factory thread locking agent left in there. If the bolts have a torque spec of over a few ft lbs, removing them a second time might be difficult if you use thread locking agent. The heavier springs might provide there own thread locking effect too.

Another thing to consider is that this part gets so hot, regular locktite is not going to stay completely solid at operating temp. I doubt if it would cause any harm if a tiny bit liquified and seeped out being that it would disperse in the oil immediately. I just don't think it would have as much of a locking effect if it softened up inside the threads. I would definitely NOT use red locktight to avoid future disassembly problems. Maybe high temp LokTite if it is the same strength as regular blue.

I have a friend who installed Brocks clutch springs in his zx-10 over two years ago. I'll let you know if he used loktite as soon as he calls back.

* Last updated by: Rook on 3/25/2016 @ 9:35 AM *

He said there was a stepdown in the clutch basket beneath each of the 6 clutch springs. The stepdowns thread into holes in the basket and these had factory threadlocking agent in them. The springs dropped in and rested against this stepdown and the screw that holds each spring threaded into a hole in the stepdown. He said he would not use loktite on the spring screws if there is a stepdown that the screw threads into. If you do, the screw might thread the stepdown out the next time you disassemble. He did use blue loktite on the stetpdowns but not the screws. He felt the springs would provide locking effect on the screws. This was on a 2012 zx-10

Im guessing there no chance to save the clutch cover gasket correct?