Here's what I'd like to do ...

In order to meet my requirement to mod my bike only in ways that can reasonably be put back to OEM, get a 2nd ECU, and get that one flashed for my bike, as follows:

- OEM exhaust (I sometimes swap to my Muzzy stainless slipons, but the header will remain OEM)

- No other performance mods; no Power Commander; no aftermarket air filter.

- Remove the top speed limiter; no need for that.

- KEEP the traction control "re-set to 1" setting; I don't drag, and don't mind manually turning it off when I feel like it. I usually keep it on.

With a 2nd ECU, if I want / need to revert back to OEM, I'll just un-plug the flashed ECU and plug the OEM ECU back in.

What would this cost me? Do I need to procure the ECU myself?

Feel free to email me ... drpeeb@ (that site that ends in) yahoo.com

Thank you ...

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Check Ebay for an unflashed ECU. I think it will run you about $300. My biggest question would be "will a flash be much of an enhancement with a stock exhaust." I think Grn was using a stock exhaust with his Cblast flash.

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in ways that can be put back to OEM

Good thinking. OE brings top dollar on a trade-in for example.

get a 2nd ECU

Yes. Look for what seems to be working is the 2012 ECU. There is a flu going around and that term in the electronic world is called a BBB. These, 'built buy brick' is going to flash your wallet about a thou for the 2nd ECU if no 2012 can be found. Used takes your chances on a... see how you blew 300 on a 2013 that may turn into a brick? Plus, you need to find a flasher that can figure out the difference if there is one or make sure all this is writing about you receiving a brand new ECU something goes wrong on their end.

I sometimes swap to my Muzzy, but the header will remain OEM

Smart.

no aftermarket air filter.

Smart. Engine killer is a faulty (debris gets thru) air cleaner scratching the sealing finish; and oil. Change those way before due so compression-wear stays; high-&-minimal. Make sense?

Remove the top speed limiter

Your choice [of many] when flashed.

KEEP the traction control "re-set to 1" setting

Think: The whole point to the flash is to be in an unrestricted setting. I do not know if the flash ignores the tone wheels in low mode, if you have ABS, etc. I can yank on the front brake and see if ABS works? It has its own processor, so if the tone wheels keep rolling thru the flash, it's a remote signal and is not in play with the ECU per say, just needs that tone wheel(s) signal. To find out? Light the tire and see if 1 kills it? Slam on the brakes and see if ABS kicks in?

I want / need to revert back to OEM, I'll just un-plug the flashed ECU

That's how I plug and play it.

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Hub

No ABS for me, unfortunately. Somewhat my fault ... I was being cheap ... but I was also not finding any white ZX's with ABS when I was ready to buy, so even if I had been willing to spend ...

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When I was looking for flashes, TS is about the most basic flash and should cost like $25-50. About the only thing I'd caution you on is apparently some of the flash's lock the ECU with a pass code which might make it difficult or impossible to modify in the future. I'm not sure about this, I just learned about it in the last couple months.

When I had my ECU flashed, I bought a 2nd one for a couple reasons. Expect to pay somwhere aroudn $300 to 400 for Gen 2 ECU. Also, you need one that matches your part number. If you live the US, that's most likely a 21175-0715.

About the only thing I'd caution you on is apparently some of the flash's lock the ECU with a pass code which might make it difficult or impossible to modify in the future. I'm not sure about this, I just learned about it in the last couple months.

This is not entirely accurate. What I think you meant to say is the ECU can only be "Reflashed" with the original software that was used in the first place. That is of course if you ever want to reflash it ?

This is not entirely accurate. What I think you meant to say is the ECU can only be "Reflashed" with the original software that was used in the first place. That is of course if you ever want to reflash it ?

What kind of question is "That is of course if you ever want to reflash it ?" This whole flashing thing is getting more shady by the day.

What kind of question is "That is of course if you ever want to reflash it ?"

More of a Rhetorical question Vic. No need to read into it. I have Never Ever had anyone Say they did not like the Flash and want a re flash, although I do offer life time flashes if you ever paid me the 250 once.

Wait, Correction, BlkCasper just sold his old ECU that I originally Flashed. To help BlkCasper with the sale I Reflashed the ECU to match the spec of his customer.

I could have used this as window to make a sale but that's Not My Way. All was and still is Free.

As A Thank You I just found out his customer is sending my wife a bag of Hawaiian Coffee for all the running around she had to do with post office arranging shipping etc. That could be viewed as payment ?

This whole flashing thing is getting more shady by the day.

Not If I'm evolved with it. That You Can Bank On ! Please Don't Paint me with that Brush Vic. If you read above I was trying to help you understand something you clearly do not.

"This whole flashing thing is getting more shady by the day"...that's like saying.."they sent me the wrong size jacket"...shit happens.Get it corrected.No need to kill the messenger(flash guy).Factory bike...no dyno on it...custom flash(sight unseen).There will be some differences bike to bike.Totally normal.Nobody f'd up,or over you.

BTW...nobody is paying any attention to your bash on Cblast.Not taking it credibly anyway.TOO many happy riders.

You bitch about it...yet you do nothing to resolve it.Yer a hard man Vic.25 dollars for a 'simple' flash?Sheesh...where in the world did you get THAT tidbit?LOL!!!And what's a TS?

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 7/11/2015 @ 5:47 PM *

"but I was also not finding any white ZX's with ABS"...yep,me too.I wanted white at first.Green is good though.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 7/11/2015 @ 5:43 PM *

Green, I just don't understand.

I have a lot of time for you and Wolf on this site because you guys have helped me out many times.

But why are you guys ripping into Vic's testing and his results?

It just seems like there is automatic blind defense against Vic and the results on the product he has tested.
I'm not saying I agree with everything Vic always says, but in this case where is the issue?

The way I see it, Vic has detailed very clearly how he performed his testing.
If you and Wolf have an issue with this, fair enough but voice it and give the reasons why.
He has also advised he was hoping to show a gain in performance with his new $400 flash and as far as I can see he has been impartial. It didn't work that way. Is that his fault?
Yes, others are very happy with the same flash. Vic has not disputed this and never said his results would be the results everyone could expect purchasing this product.
He simply advised these were the results for him and his bike.

Again, Wolf and yourself have had great success with this product. Well done. But there are others who have not.
So if Vic and others don't experience the same performance gains as you both, what do you want them all to do? Stay quiet and keep it to themselves or you'll get up them as well?
Thats not what this site is all about.

Come on guys, express your opinions but give reasons why rather than what appears to be blind dismissal of anything negatively related to this product.

Apologies if I have missed something here but I am more than happy to be set straight...

* Last updated by: yannih on 7/11/2015 @ 11:38 PM *

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Yannih just posted all my very same thoughts.

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Grn, I think Vic meant, 'traction setting' for TS. For 25 bucks, key on and F-Off remains present each time.

Yannhi, watt can I say? You were in the middle of a learning curve and have to learn from it I guess? It's going to take Cblast years if not decades to be on par with that list of tuners on the other thread.

Vic, for me, it's a see no, hear no, speak no shit, I saw enough and there was some speedy bottom times, so there was a $flash$ present is the assfactor is out of the picture, but the vid says it all.

extrap, every time I hit the 8 (pull over and literally begin with that many tunes ready to go) I fall back onto the OE and that untampered with processor set to stock. Best gas mileage, best F-Off if I want to be on this side of a flash; best dash mode I can set my rpm limit and still have an engine after that miss (loose chain) of a gear. Best cheap deal of the day is take $400, put it towards plugs/a-c/oil/tires.

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TS = top speed, probably should've said TSL. And yes grn, you can get a TSL flash for $25.

Remember grn you didn't even know about late apex turning. Hub had to teach you that. And it's in the MSF BRC manual FFS. Remember that grn before you go slinging around big words like credibility.

* Last updated by: VicThing on 7/12/2015 @ 2:56 PM *

Vic, let me put it this way. With a reach around of the trousers, there are wallets and there are WALLETS. Grn carries a big W so it's hard to compete with that kind of modding. You find you are always steps behind and I more or less gave up chasing the Jones next door. It's that syringe with the green liquid mother tea inside... feeding those veins. So it'more-more-more reach around go faster greenie .

Like 1bad said, he's an underestimater and I wouldn't underestimate Grn's modding and that billfold. Tires, windshields, maps, flashes, on and on kind of. Assfactor has to rub off someway, somehow. So there is a little credibility there if I inject that into; been there done that kind of keep with that thatshit.

And it's in the MSF BRC manual FFS.

No shit? Back in the days of the wannabe, I remember [the chemical sensation] scaring myself, rolling on the marbles, waiting, waiting until the ass went from pucker to begin to leave stains. Butt before that happened, right before that, I'd turn in as late as I could. It was the reach around of all reach arounds in my attempt of some crazy shit scare tactics on the track... Here is where I come down on you, you fucked up my line... In my back pocket. So if not pass you in the dirt, then in the marbles... There is where my green wannabe went talk about addicted vs wallet.

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Yeah, no shit Hub. It's in the BRC manual. So anyone that wants to talk to me about riding and couldn't even figure out late apex turning for themselves has very little credibility. Like I said a long time ago, I read about late apex turning decades ago. It's not new, it's not tech, it's been around, it's old hat, it's talked about frequently.

As far as wallets, I don't know how you're jumping to that ass factor. This isn't about money, if $400 was bothering me I'd be banging down CBlast door right now. Would I mind having my $400 back? It wouldn't bother me. This is about performance. Whether or not a modification actually had the intended impact. At least for my bike, it did not. And for most people, the "it pulls waayyy harder now" crowd, my guess is they are only happy because they believe their bike is wayy faster now when at best it could be faster by a tenth or two. Again, world class ass might be able to tell a tenth, there's no one on this forum that can perceive a 10th of a second difference. NO ONE.

Well, Vic, no manual back in the day. Keith Code was still putting one together. No manual says to blow out the fork seals at 100 mph and see 9mph scrubbed off before the forks head for the fork stops. Now you run another crazy self taught lesson to brake deep and know its limits. Punching bag kind of things before getting into the ring. Yeah, in hindsight, who knew?

Like I mentioned, your riding tells me something is there. I'm going to backup the backup. I said I changed to the OE and the front end comes up for me and this was just one more test, I never or try never to miss adding a test in a ride.

So your own test contradicts your assfactor. Here are my assumptions.
Have you ever hacked into the bike? No.
So you can't figure out a change in backup.
Have you ever changed OE's, find one has torque lift, the other is fill in the blank? No.
So your assfactor is just a few years out of shape, you were away for awhile. Right.
Have you two come to a conclusion it's not about money then, then what was not delivered?
So you do not have an AFR meter to determine the difference is now real time proof is in this brick is one AFR, in this OE is the base AFR number? No.
So credibility wise, I am going to side with C is the goods were delivered. WATTar & Feathers we fighting for then?

Credibility wise, C sent $400 worth. Without that AFR being measured is when Smoke showed those AFR processing swaps at idle. With the PAIR hose corked off as if to sync the t-bodies, swap black boxes: with an AFR meter in the loop. So yes there is change, or no, you were sent a TSL only and that's why you can't feel fill in the blank?

I want to be wrong about my abstract guessing. I want that curve thrown so wow, 4-5-6 look at you go, or TSL, no AFR change and your assfactor brings on Credibility.

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My assfactor does not contradict my test results.

The closest thing that I ever said that could be construed as this is something like I thought there might be a difference. I believe in a later post I went on to clarify what made me say that, and that ultimately I ended up experiencing the same thing with the stock ECU installed.

Vic, say yes or no, or really, you do not qualify to make comment. Are you going to buy an AFR meter and find out if your flash is set fat in the AFR, meaning, look at the dyno chart and the 13.5a line. When I hack a wire, no AFR change. So even if the bike defaults to a code or code like, no AFR change is 1. The other is, I can tell rich to lean on the fly is to toggle the pc map and low and behold.... Assfactor.

Again, listen to the trick you out of an alleged $400 tune or a T-toggle, no AFR change says no change you can decipher is an unrestrict keystroke. And without the AFR meter, or mail me the fucking thing, you have no clue what you bought, nor have enough experience with one fucking ride for fuck sake LOL

Think that the fuck out, get back to me, because I do not suffer fools FFS!

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Vic, say yes or no, or really, you do not qualify to make comment. Are you going to buy an AFR meter and find out if your flash is set fat in the AFR, meaning, look at the dyno chart and the 13.5a line. When I hack a wire, no AFR change. So even if the bike defaults to a code or code like, no AFR change is 1. The other is, I can tell rich to lean on the fly is to toggle the pc map and low and behold.... Assfactor.

Again, listen to the trick you out of an alleged $400 tune or a T-toggle, no AFR change says no change you can decipher is an unrestrict keystroke. And without the AFR meter, or mail me the fucking thing, you have no clue what you bought, nor have enough experience with one fucking ride for fuck sake LOL

Think that the fuck out, get back to me, because I do not suffer fools FFS!

I don't have an 02 sensor, or bung, and don't plan on adding one. I'm not certain but I believe that's a requirement isn't it? If not, or you have recommendations for an AFR meter let me know. I'd be most intersted in one I could record, like this one http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/O2Meter/O2Meter.shtml

As far as sending you the ECU, I didn't think you had a Gen 2?

As far as being tricked, I'm a capitalist and for the most part believe in buyer beware. That's why when it's called for I'm careful about purchases. $400 is a small price for a life lesson, and these days I don't learn them too often. I've had much more expensive lessons, to the tune of $100k that I've learned from. That was pretty expensive.

I do admit, I am now very skeptical of flashing in general at this point. I was always skeptical of pigs. I think they have their purpose but street bikes isn't really the place.

* Last updated by: VicThing on 7/15/2015 @ 6:53 PM *

I was goofing on you at the other thread. And yes, that would be a euro kind of 3 wire 02 signal ECU. But ours is open loop and the seat sensor is our 3rd wire. So it's a no go. See, we are sitting one number on your end and a different number at my altitude. Yes, we have the same exact bike, year, etc.

Bottom line, you can run what WR sells in 02 setup. You can buy the pc and that wideband package. So here you are with, I can lean towards the wooly hardware parts and compliment the flashed ECU. Then this flip of the coin. I could run the pc wideband kit, buy the pcv and compliment the OE with a pc map. So you float the money towards flash hardware, bin buy, etc, or run in the cheap sets with the pc setup.

The way you are sensing no change... Ouch!

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I was always skeptical of pigs. I think they have their purpose but street bikes isn't really the place.

Disagree. Bike has to move like a tesla does @ zero to sixty. Electric force and a map will more or less help some, pipe too. The bike comes neutered. So those are cheap go fast parts.

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As much as I hate to play 'he said she said"...wtf has late cornering have to do with ANYTHING relating to an ECU flash?It's a flash thread,not a skills thread.I knew about 'late' cornering...Hub suggested it...I tried it..it was okay.And i appreciate him sharing it with me.Like I'm supposed to be Mr Know it all?I can't build a motor,but I can remove throttlebodies.Who cares?I don't.So you 'tested' your ECU...good.Happy for ya.You're the one pissed off...not me.Jeez...get a grip.I'm Joe A...certainly not even NEAR as qualified to diagnose ANYTHING as you apparently are.I mean...you've got a whole Youtube channel to your name.While you throw barbs at me.Think I care what you think about me?I'm doing fine....You sound like a guy that takes.."How ya doing?" as an subliminal message of ridicule.You might want to look at that..the world doesn't hate you...I certainly don't.

If ya don't like me....don't bring me up in your vendetta.

"my guess is they are only happy because they believe their bike is wayy faster now when at best it could be faster by a tenth"...yer daft.I guess we're ALL imagining some mythical brainwash then.(the ones who can actually FEEL a difference that is).Why don't you try hammering yer bike...somewhere,anywhere.Open it up.Get some loft time in 1st and second.TC 'off'.You'll know which ecu is different. Sorry yours was apparently no better than factory.Perhaps C was trying to save you from yourself.I honestly think you're afraid of your bike...and rode it flashed as such.No wonder you don't feel anything different.

Done entering ANY thread with you in it.You don't like me...obviously...so why be a part of that.Not me.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 7/15/2015 @ 8:51 PM *

LOL grn!

Yes, we have the same exact bike, year, etc

Didn't know that... seems like you never talk about it. I'd consider sending the flashed ECU to you if you'd guarantee it's not going to get bricked and that whatever numbers that come out of testing aren't subjective. I mean if you get it, and it's 14.1 static that means either the flash didn't take or it's complete false representation of products. If you get it, and it's 13.5 it means in motion with ram air it won't be the optimal AFR for producing power. But exactly how will you collect this information?