Hey All...got a question about a subject that I am still learning about?

Bike: 2008 ZX-14, Muzzy M10 Exhaust, Muzzy Block-Off Plates installed, ECUnleashed Flash.

Had the ECU flashed by ECUnleashed same time as the M10 install. After reading some notes and almost drowning in internet information, I see that I probably should have gone to Guhl for the ECU, but that's a different convo.

So...question: is there a reason, or should I, add a PCV at this point? Does it get me anything additional?

The interweb has so many conflicting opinions on this...some use both, some remove the PCV after flash.

Thoughts...?

Thanks for the help...

Most reflashes don't touch the fueling table, usually just add some timing to the ignition curve. you want the pcv to make changes to your fueling table based on changes you make, exhaust, air filter etc... if you trying doing these fuel curve changes in the ECU you would then have to have it reflashed each time you made a change. with the PCV you make change via your own computer.

hope that helps. I have both the brocks/guhl #2 flash and a PCV.

That is the best explanation I have seen thus far...thanks toledo!

you're welcome.

beigs-

Take your bike over to Grand Rapids and have Scott at Fastbikes on 28th Street do an AFR (AirFuelRatio) dyno pull.

It costs about $35 and that will tell the story on how well your bike is running. He can tell you if you have lean/rich spots in your fuel map.

After you get the AFR done, pay him to do a full custom fuel map. He can optimize your mpg, build you hp, gain you mid-range, improve your throttle response, etc.

Scott works on everybodys bikes around West Michigan, and he knows his stuff.

Until you do an AFR, you are just guessing.

Until you do an AFR, you are just guessing.

2ND, peace of mind has value.

So...question: is there a reason, or should I, add a PCV at this point? Does it get me anything additional?

Spend 35 Dollars and the answer to that question will be made clear.

Just got off the phone with Scott at Fast Bikes. He recommended I hold off on the PCV until he does the AFR dyno run, then he will be able to see how generic the ECU flash was and we can decide how to move forward. Going to try to get the bike up there this week or next depending on the weather, I'll keep you guys updated and hopefully will have some pretty Dyno charts to share as well.

After Scott got done with my 2008 with Akrapovic EVO & PCIIIr, it made 189 rwhp on his dyno.

And my friends blue 2007 with Yoshimura 4/1 made 187 rwhp, so your bike should be real close to those numbers when he is done.

More important than a pretty dyno chart showing peak hp is throttle response and a smooth power curve for drivability.

I can tell you that for street riding, midrange torque is what you want.

* Last updated by: zxrider11 on 5/7/2013 @ 12:49 PM *

^^^^Dyno is way too happy IMHO BUT that's not what matters... Like they said get that AFR right... the rest is just numbers.

* Last updated by: dragking on 5/7/2013 @ 1:36 PM *

Very true dragking, dyno numbers are only good for comparing back-to-back tuning, every dyno reads different. AFR is what to shoot for.

Good call on Fast Bikes, had my appointment with Scott this morning. Bottom line, my 14 is running rich...really rich. 12-16 point rich, on all gears, even at idol. So, made appointment to get the PCV and have the bike custom tuned. Scott believes when it is done, the throttle response should be significantly improved, gas mileage will improve (not that I care, I didn't buy a prius!) and the bike will just run better. Today, RHP topped out at 174.5, he thinks I should get a slight bump on that as well.

Unfortunately he is booked solid for the next 3-4 weeks, so nothing else is going to happen till mid-June. More updates to come then.

After Scott got done with my 2008 with Akrapovic EVO & PCIIIr, it made 189 rwhp on his dyno.

zxrider...I believe Scott showed me your saved Dyno run, he was comparing mine against other 2008s he had run and the top one on the list was 189 rwhp with an Akrapovic. There where no names attached, but I'm betting it was yours.

So while I'm expecting a little bump in rwhp when all is said and done, I'm not expecting it to go to 189!!! Does the Akrapovic give you that much? Or are there other things you are keeping secret? Both 2008s, so they should be close...so come on, what's the secret ingredient?

* Last updated by: beigs on 5/17/2013 @ 7:38 AM *

It was probably mine, Scott is very good about keeping peoples bike #'s private.

The Akra Evolution pipe has a noticeably larger diameter collector & mid pipes versus other brands like Muzzy & Yoshimura.

I have found the the biggest gain in performance will come from removing weight from the bike.

I have ZX10 wheels, Shorai Lithium battery, and a few other tricks that got my bike down to 480 pounds with a gallon of gas.

Braking, handling & acceleration all improve with reduction in weight!

So...Update...

Got my bike back from Fast Bikes last Thursday. She just about kissed 180 rwhp on the Dyno, so I'm happy with that. Throttle response was significantly improved around the 3-4k RPM range which was nice, and overall the bike seemed really smooth, but with a kick.

BUTTTTTT...BIG TROUBLE (maybe). I got her home OK and she sat in the garage for a few days until Sunday. Sunday AM, took her out for a 45 minute ride for coffee, bike seemed fine and I was taking it slow because there was a bicycle road race going on on my normal route. But I did notice a couple times in the low RPMs the bike hiccuped a little bit like it wasn't getting enough fuel. Nothing major, but noticeable.

Then, on the way home, about 30 minutes into the 45 minute ride, she started hiccuping a lot, then she just died on me...right there on the road. I had to call a tow truck for a ride home. Put her in the garage, tried not to let it ruin the rest of my day.

So today I called Scott up at Fast Bikes, they are closed until July, left a message on his cell and start taking the bike apart.

PCV seems OK, lights up like normal. Come here, see what people say, hear that some people have problems if the PCV isn't grounded correctly. Right about that time, Scott calls me back. Says the same thing, and also suggested I possibly got a bad PSV.

So I disconnect the PCV, plug it back in to default...boom...she starts right up.

Now...Scott did the PCV ground in the same way Rook suggested in the How-To PCV install, except he put the ground wire on the outside of the bracket. So I start to take Rook's suggestion and file down the little 'hump' in the screw hole for the bracket to expose bear metal...only I realize that my little 'hump' appears to be plastic glued to the frame rail. Now...I'm willing to accept that it wasn't grounded correctly, but why did it start at all? Why did it 'hiccup' several times in an hour and 15 minutes of riding, but was otherwise fine till she died? Perhaps the ground on the outside of the bracket that was touching the frame was enough to make it work, but not consistently?

So, I look for the closest thing I can find on the bike that is exposing bear metal...I end up grounding the PCV on the top hole for anti-freeze reservoir. Plug it back in...bike starts up. Let her run for about 10 minutes, cranked the throttle a couple times, seems to be fine.

But I haven't taken her out yet either.

Sorry this was so long, but before I go on another long ride and end up with another ride from an ornery tow truck driver who hates motorcycles, I thought I could possibly get some input from you guys.

Thanks...

* Last updated by: beigs on 6/24/2013 @ 12:45 PM *

Ground is the problem. Do not run a plastic backing to ground that needs to be homed like a vice, not like a rubber baby buggy bumper is how you tied the yellow ribbon to the old oak tree is shit integrity.

* Last updated by: Hub on 6/24/2013 @ 3:46 PM *

Hub...I am not 100% sure what you said, but I think it is something like "Don't ground it there dummy!"

I get it, and I agree I'm going to have to find a better solution. And I also agree that the ground was probably the problem, especially the more I think about it.

So, I'm going to fix the ground location and assume it's good (though I'll make sure I have the correct tools with me on the bike in case I'm wrong). If I have any other issues, I'll create a new thread.

For those interested, my Dyno run is attached. All in all, with exception of the one little issue, you guys stirred me right and I am really happy with the outcome.

100% correct. I have no idea who came up with a plastic washer is going to give a solid ground. And what I've been reading is current follows to ground. So as it spurts, it jumps to ground via the loose plastic ring that someone thinks will let the current flow that strong to ground.