Move Close
Welcome to zx14ninjaform.com!

You are not logged in.
New Topic Reply
Next Page

Page: 1 2

Previous Page

Thread: Nitrus BOOST questions

Created on: 06/19/13 10:44 AM

Replies: 32

Rook


Rook's Gravatar

Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 16508

RE: Nitrus BOOST questions
05/09/15 9:49 AM

hooboy, looks like I will be doing a small shot for now. So what is a small shot, 25 and less?



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE flies out, full Tsukigi Cannon exhaust, BMC race filter, Muzzy's block off plates, 17/45 gearing, PC5, Romans map, AT-200, Bonneville PRO, HM PLUS quickshifter, Factory Pro EVO Shift Star, RC's oil pump cover, Shorai 14A2 Lithium battery, Spiegler SS clutch and brake lines, HyperPro RSC steering damper, Vortex rearsets, Ohlins FGRT807 forks and KA544 shock, Carrazzeria Tri-R wheels, Pazzo levers.

Link | Top | Bottom

Rook


Rook's Gravatar

Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 16508

RE: Nitrus BOOST questions
05/26/15 5:42 PM

Doing a little research on valve springs with turbo, I hear aftermarket springs like APE exert 60lbs of force. The Hayabusa has 40 lb stock springs. The Gen1 ZX-14 has stock springs that exert 28 lbs of force but that is still considered useable with most turbo applications. The Gen2 ZX-14R has even lighter springs than the Gen1 does. According to this info, the gen2 14 is the one that needs the spring upgrade the most if turbo is added. I'm going on the assumption that turbo has the same effect on valve springs as NOS. Given that, I'd probably want to upgrade springs on my '08 ZX-14 at some point just for an extra measure of safety. It might not be necessary for a 75 hp shot but it's still a lot cheaper and easier to do than some of the engine mods that get done for high levels of boost.

Would 60 lb springs eat some hp when running naturally aspirated?


* Last updated by: Rook on 5/26/2015 @ 8:28 PM *



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE flies out, full Tsukigi Cannon exhaust, BMC race filter, Muzzy's block off plates, 17/45 gearing, PC5, Romans map, AT-200, Bonneville PRO, HM PLUS quickshifter, Factory Pro EVO Shift Star, RC's oil pump cover, Shorai 14A2 Lithium battery, Spiegler SS clutch and brake lines, HyperPro RSC steering damper, Vortex rearsets, Ohlins FGRT807 forks and KA544 shock, Carrazzeria Tri-R wheels, Pazzo levers.

Link | Top | Bottom

knovikov


knovikov's Gravatar

Location: ohio

Joined: 01/12/11

Posts: 238

RE: Nitrus BOOST questions
05/26/15 8:09 PM

Hey Rook,

Here is Brocks website where I found info on valve spring seat pressure.

https://www.brocksperformance.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2126

After re-reading the post again, I goofed. It is 28 lbs.. instead of 20 lbs. Here is the exact quote

"WAS CHECKING THE SEAT PRESSURE ON THE ZX14 VALVE SPRINGS & FOUND BOTH THE INT & EX WERE ONLY 28 LBS AT THE INSTALLED HEIGHT 1.324" . THIS SEEMS MIGHTY WEAK..."

Further, this post was published 9/2011.


* Last updated by: knovikov on 5/26/2015 @ 8:11 PM *



'79 Honda Twinstar 185, '84 Yamaha FJ1100, '95 Honda Goldwing, '94 Suzuki DR350, '99 Suzuki bandit 1200, '08 Ninja zx14 turbo, methanol injection, Braking B1 wheels

Link | Top | Bottom

Rook


Rook's Gravatar

Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 16508

RE: Nitrus BOOST questions
05/26/15 8:49 PM

Thanks, Nova. I went back and corrected the Gen1 OEM valve spring pressure in my last post.

Looks like Brock recommends shimming the stock springs as much as possible if stock cam profile is used. He likes the aftermarket springs for modified cams. In any case, Brock alludes to the danger of "floating valves" that comes from too weak of a spring. The post isn't even about boost so I think it's safe to assume that if Brock increases spring tension for racing, it probably is not a bad idea for any boosted bike. I'm not taking the spring upgrade as a must do but probably a good safeguard against valve train malfunction that might be more likely in racing, aggressive use or with boost.

Would 60 lb springs eat some hp when running naturally aspirated?

Brock says yes but you get most of it back from the extra strength in the springs pushing the cams back up after the lobe passes center.

As far as the date of that post, 2011 is still relevant for those of us with Gen1 bikes, unless Brock has since changed his opinion.



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE flies out, full Tsukigi Cannon exhaust, BMC race filter, Muzzy's block off plates, 17/45 gearing, PC5, Romans map, AT-200, Bonneville PRO, HM PLUS quickshifter, Factory Pro EVO Shift Star, RC's oil pump cover, Shorai 14A2 Lithium battery, Spiegler SS clutch and brake lines, HyperPro RSC steering damper, Vortex rearsets, Ohlins FGRT807 forks and KA544 shock, Carrazzeria Tri-R wheels, Pazzo levers.

Link | Top | Bottom

knovikov


knovikov's Gravatar

Location: ohio

Joined: 01/12/11

Posts: 238

RE: Nitrus BOOST questions
05/27/15 10:20 PM

"Brock says yes but you get most of it back from the extra strength in the springs pushing the cams back up after the lobe passes center."

The way you have worded makes sense to me. Do you think this will impact wear on parts?

If you are going to upgrade your springs, please let us know. There are a few options out there. You can buy the springs only, or you can buy the kit with titanium spring seats, etc. I looked at some Hayabusa threads that gave me an impression that most guys just buy the springs. IDK

Bought a 1/2" round magnet in order to do a valve job. Just need to get a feeler gauge to get started.



'79 Honda Twinstar 185, '84 Yamaha FJ1100, '95 Honda Goldwing, '94 Suzuki DR350, '99 Suzuki bandit 1200, '08 Ninja zx14 turbo, methanol injection, Braking B1 wheels

Link | Top | Bottom

Rook


Rook's Gravatar

Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 16508

RE: Nitrus BOOST questions
06/09/15 3:46 PM

"Brock says yes but you get most of it back from the extra strength in the springs pushing the cams back up after the lobe passes center."
The way you have worded makes sense to me. Do you think this will impact wear on parts?

I would think the extra tension in the springs would cause more wear on both sides of the cam lobes. How much additional wear, I have no idea. SOunds like you might be doubling the tension by going to 60 lb springs but that does not necessarily mean a great deal of additional wear. Brock did mention that the bike may not start quite as fast with the HD valve springs. I would think if the bike was actually having a hard time starting, that would mean the parts were rubbing together awfully hard. It's all speculation on my part. It would be more of a concern for me than you though. You use boost all the time with turbo and I would only be using the NOS occasionally. A lot of engine wear for just a tiny fraction of the engine use would be sorta wasteful for me. ...BUT I'm not practical at all when it comes to the bike.

"If you are going to upgrade your springs, please let us know. "
Absolutely. I'm reading my Dyno-Tune installation instructions right now and he does recommend stronger valve springs and clutch if you go over +40 hp. That coincides with the comments made here previously.


* Last updated by: Rook on 6/9/2015 @ 3:47 PM *



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE flies out, full Tsukigi Cannon exhaust, BMC race filter, Muzzy's block off plates, 17/45 gearing, PC5, Romans map, AT-200, Bonneville PRO, HM PLUS quickshifter, Factory Pro EVO Shift Star, RC's oil pump cover, Shorai 14A2 Lithium battery, Spiegler SS clutch and brake lines, HyperPro RSC steering damper, Vortex rearsets, Ohlins FGRT807 forks and KA544 shock, Carrazzeria Tri-R wheels, Pazzo levers.

Link | Top | Bottom

Rook


Rook's Gravatar

Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 16508

RE: Nitrus BOOST questions
06/09/15 3:53 PM

Sorry for not getting back to this thread quicker Nova. Feel free to carry on the topic of upgraded internals.

Here's what I'm wondering about, a purge system for the NOS. Sure I'd love to have one just so I could blow steam out of the side and make a loud HISSSSSSSSSSSS noise.

QUESTION #7: What is a nitrous purge system for? Do I need a purge system for a motorcycle with NOS or is it just a novelty?



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE flies out, full Tsukigi Cannon exhaust, BMC race filter, Muzzy's block off plates, 17/45 gearing, PC5, Romans map, AT-200, Bonneville PRO, HM PLUS quickshifter, Factory Pro EVO Shift Star, RC's oil pump cover, Shorai 14A2 Lithium battery, Spiegler SS clutch and brake lines, HyperPro RSC steering damper, Vortex rearsets, Ohlins FGRT807 forks and KA544 shock, Carrazzeria Tri-R wheels, Pazzo levers.

Link | Top | Bottom

Rook


Rook's Gravatar

Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 16508

RE: Nitrus BOOST questions
09/28/17 4:50 PM

Back to question #4, I definitely plan to use a progressive controller from the get-go. Any suggestions on which one? This is a dry NOS. I have been looking at this one in particular. Can get right now shipped for $311. :
Daytona NC-2

but this one is starting to catch my eye because of the 4 stage capability -- but damn that would be expensive over $600 for that setup and if I spend that much, I'm going to feel like I must have the touch screen for another $300.
NX Max 5

Any recommendations?

Will I find a big advantage to having 4 stages instead of just two? ...well actually, it looks like the Daytona can be set up to do 3 stages of nitrous control...so will 4 stages be that much better than 3?


* Last updated by: Rook on 9/28/2017 @ 9:17 PM *



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE flies out, full Tsukigi Cannon exhaust, BMC race filter, Muzzy's block off plates, 17/45 gearing, PC5, Romans map, AT-200, Bonneville PRO, HM PLUS quickshifter, Factory Pro EVO Shift Star, RC's oil pump cover, Shorai 14A2 Lithium battery, Spiegler SS clutch and brake lines, HyperPro RSC steering damper, Vortex rearsets, Ohlins FGRT807 forks and KA544 shock, Carrazzeria Tri-R wheels, Pazzo levers.

Link | Top | Bottom


Welcome to zx14ninjaform.com!
 
New Topic Reply
Next Page

Page: 1 2

Previous Page

New Post

Please login to post a response.