Well...today didn't turn out so good.My 14 lost her transmission...or something like that.No noise of anything breaking,but she won't shift out of 1st.Not into N.Not into anything.24K miles.Just cruisin down the road,decelerating actually.Oil fine.Hand lever pressure fine.Slave fine.Clutch,fine.Grinding badly noise when moving the shifter up into higher gears,which it isn't engaging.No N light.Only first gear.Won't shift from or come out of.Gonna take it apart tomorrow.Wish me good luck on what's wrong.Sad day for my bike for sure.Doesn't 'feel' like it's going into any gear at all going up..just hits a grinding noise.One thing weird...for the last few rides,when stopped at a light in N,I blip the throttle,I can feel the bike subtly move forward like it's trying to go.It's very brief,and stops doing it.Holding clutch in at a stop in 1st,blip the throttle,same thing.I mean,previous to this happening today.NEVER heard or felt anything like that before,that teensy movement forward.Almost like I'm feathering the clutch ever so small.But I'm not.In N?How can it do that?Sitting in N at a stop.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 5/16/2019 @ 11:37 PM *

Will it make a clutchless upshift? Perhaps the clutch isn’t fully disengaged? I’m sure you’ve tried this but just throwing it out there.

I remember this on my 14:

http://zx14ninjaforum.com/messages.cfm?threadid=0FC38F94-D2F5-59E2-54FCAD0F76CA3F2D

* Last updated by: moppedmanniemie on 5/17/2019 @ 3:45 AM *

One thing weird...for the last few rides,when stopped at a light in N,I blip the throttle,I can feel the bike subtly move forward like it's trying to go.It's very brief,and stops doing it.Holding clutch in at a stop in 1st,blip the throttle,same thing.I mean,previous to this happening today.NEVER heard or felt anything like that before,that teensy movement forward.Almost like I'm feathering the clutch ever so small.But I'm not.In N?How can it do that?Sitting in N at a stop.

In N, I'd say that is impossible. 1st with clutch lever in, normal to some degree especially if cold.

Maybe the clutch plates are just worn out as unlikely as that would be at 24k miles. I think I would start with the clutch. I can help you with that. It's not as easy as an oil change but I can tell you all the things to look out for. The tutorials are here for Gen1 and I'm sure Gen2 would follow suit on that for the most part.

Good luck, Greenie. Let's git er done!

Glad you have the H2 to carry you through the beginning of summer!

If somehow your clutch plates were not adjusted to the proper height at the factory, that could be it. I would also EXPECT slippage and that seems to be what you are experiencing ...but in N????? Try snapping it low throttle to WOT in first. Does the clutch hold or does it slip?

* Last updated by: Rook on 5/17/2019 @ 7:00 AM *

1. Smell the oil at the filler cap. Being that close to the basket you can both see the pressure plate sunk deeper than normal, plus taking a whiff to see if it's clutch plate related.
2. As mopped has shown with basket removed, move the back wheel forward or back, or back only or forward only, so the gears mesh into each other when shifting. This will show the drum can move and spring is in place.
3. Therefore, see that 92144 is in place, is not broken in half, or it fell out. https://www.cheapcycleparts.com/oemparts/a/kaw/50aa36ecf8700226a41461eb/gear-change-mechanism
4. See if 92153A is tight.

That's pretty much it for the gear change scenario.

Doing some thinking on this.

1. Smell the oil at the filler cap. Being that close to the basket you can both see the pressure plate sunk deeper than normal, plus taking a whiff to see if it's clutch plate related.

I would suspect the plate stack to be too high according to the symptoms. It would be strange the problem just cropped up. The stack should wear lower with age, not higher. There is some other reason the clutch is sticking in an engaged position.

The gearbox won't shift or grinds = clutch pack is not releasing when the lever is pulled.

The bike is possibly creeping with clutch disengaged even in N. = clutch pack is not releasing when the lever is pulled.

The clutch basket primary gear ALWAYS rotates with the primary gear on the crankshaft. Regardless of gear position 1~6 or N, the clutch basket turns with the motor at all times.

As long as the clutch is engaged (lever NOT pulled), the primary drive turns the input shaft. If the input shaft is turning, the output shaft will ALWAYS turn with it. The output shaft is connected to the output sprocket which is linked to the rear wheel sprocket by drive chain. Out put shaft turns, output sprocket must also turn. Bike creeps in N or with clutch lever pulled, clutch plates slip gently as the motor turns. Oil gets hot and loosens up, creeping reduced, plates glide over one another more easily. If the creeping is more noticeable than usual, this tells me the plates are gripping harder than usual...and they are so tight, they do not let go even when you pull the clutch lever.

Long > Short. Your clutch is stuck engaged and it can't disengage for some reason.

Perhaps the outer plate jumped out of the fingers on the basket. I have heard of that usually causing the clutch to slip. But yours is grabbing and won't let go. Something is stuck between the plates increasing the stack height or else something has jumped out of place causing the stack to be too high.

Do like Hub said and look in the oil cap first.

Remove clutch cover next.

Remove plates. Still no answer, remove the basket and drum.

* Last updated by: Rook on 5/17/2019 @ 9:21 AM *

Also have a good look at the slave. Is the plastic spacer cracked? Are you sure it's moving the pushrod as much as it should? A few mm of reduced travel in the pushrod could make a difference. Pull clutch lever and look in oil filler hole for movement.

Thanks Rook.I did check the slave...in the past,when I had one that cracked,it seeped fluid.There' no seeping at the slave.I noticed this creeping deal started after it had sat all that time...when I was away and all.I didn't think too much of it cause it went away after a blip or two in n of the throttle.Then I noticed it did it sometimes with the bike in first,and clutch lever pulled in at a stop.Blip throttle,it went away.I KNEW it wasn't right.But it didn't seem to be affecting anything.So I just rode with doing that.
It didn't do this at every stop or anything,just sometimes.Even after it was very warmed up and all.Cold?I never noticed it doing that.It never creeped just sitting there.Only when I blipped the throttle a tiny bit,I could feel it try to move just a tiny bit.Had me wondering if it was gonna suddenly just go full on and pull the bike.It never was that bad though.Almost unnoticeable.

I have a very loose chain for a reason. I do not use the clutch to shift up or down either. You just have to time the blip for the downshift. Upshift I let the chain be pulled so the gear can mesh into the other gear if it needs it. Too tight a chain and I misshifts way too many times.

Okay.I don't normally run my chain looser...but maybe I could try that as well since it's working good for your clutchless shifts...thanks.How loose are we talkin here?lol.

You have the aftermarket star shifter with the bearings, Hopefully something with the shift fork came loose or backed out

I had the same problem as you TWICE and it turned out that the shift lever had gotten pushed in slightly and would not engage the drum. The circlip that hold the lever in place are made out of butterfly wings. Leaning the bike towards you and having your leg push the lever in slightly is enough to do it.

Okay.Rechecked and BAM...Suzy you did explain another part of this.The grinding noise was the gears hitting,FROM the shift arm not all the way in there.It had worked it's way out about 1/3rd of an inch.When I pushed it back in there,then it stopped the full up and down movement(while staying in first)I felt that and was HOPING the gears were gonna change for me.Nah,Couldn't get THAT lucky..I looked closer in there,that pin that the spring center coil goes onto didn't look right.Lightly mushroomed and scarred on the facing surface.Like it'd been sheared off or something.It was being hit by those gears (I think?)when I was toeing it up and all..Looks okay though,usable I mean.So hey guys...thanks millions for your input.Really helped me do what I gad to.Spring should be here maybe Saturday...Thanks again all...yer awesome.

an aside...so now I've got a rebel spring inside my motor somewheres hiding out.Wasn't in the oil.feeling really good about having that floating around in there when she's running!(Prolly won't do that,right? )

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 5/17/2019 @ 11:11 PM *

The c-ring that locates the shift shaft on the left or gear selector side is a poor design. When I installed the star shifter i could pop it out of the recess on the shift rod easily by hand. If the c ring pops out of the shift shaft grove the shifter fork is out past the pins on the star that rotate the gear output shaft.

Thanks Rudy.Yeah,Trying to get that circlip on that shaft without 'loosening' the clip function is way difficult.It has to be opened so much to fit over the shaft it bends.I think on this one I didn't try the pliers,I just forced it over the shaft at the clip ends.It fit in there,but it wasn't actually tight like it should be.Maybe it would be doable to grind a spot on the shaft farther out to get that clip on there without having to force it so much. Think I'll do this.I mean,the shaft isn't gonna snap with a small amount taken out.

Thankfully all the parts in there were okay.The fork mechanism wasn't being pushed back 'up' towards the star pegs.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 5/18/2019 @ 1:15 PM *

I wouldn't grind a smaller spot on the shift shaft to make it easier to slide the circlip in place. If you do that, it could pop out of the groove easier.

Go to the auto supply and buy yourself a cheap set of circle pliers for $6 or get a nice one for $11. Just make sure you have the right size pins---real small ones. You won't need to expand it as wide as the whole diameter of the shaft if you use the right tool, just wide enough clear the chamfer it clips into.

so now I've got a rebel spring inside my motor somewheres hiding out.Wasn't in the oil.feeling really good about having that floating around in there when she's running!(Prolly won't do that,right? )

There are three springs in the external shift mechanism: detent arm (arm with wheel that goes between cams on shift star) spring, return spring for the shift arm (the arm with the claw) and the tiny spring that the claw retracts on.

Is this the spring we're talking about?

I wouldn't worry too much about the tiny claw spring. It has washed down in their pan. Might be on the pick up screen but it isn't going anywhere. Get it when you drop the pan some day.

The two larger springs?---I would have to find those. They would probably go into the sump but if they didn't, they might get eaten up in your primary gears. ---I can't see one of this falling off unless dropped in disassembly.

I forgot.Wasn't thinking.That shaft toe lever comes off.Now I get it.After all these years!Geez.You can tell I've had to replace a few of these.Didn't mean to embarrass you Trump supporters...yeah,I like Trump.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 5/18/2019 @ 7:44 PM *

LOL Yeah you only need to take off the outer clip and the shift pedal to pull the shaft out.

BTW, I had some trouble putting just the slightest scrapes on that shaft by using a vice grips instead of the pedal. The shaft would pull through. A little needle filing and sandpaper fixed that but just saying, no need to file around on that thing if you don't need to.

I didn't know there was a difference in surface cut until Hub told me about it.The 'sharp' surface goes OUT in that groove.To contact the flange of the groove.Thanks Hub!

I just marked the clip so I could install it as it had been before disassembly. I recall that either the inner edge or the outer edge of that groove was worn somewhat from use. Next time, I will just replace the whole shaft. The teeth for the pedal needed some touchup with a file too.

So WTH was the problem, GRN? The claw on the shift arm was not retracting because that little spring wire came off?

Yeah.That spring goin across there.With the loop in it.Popped off somehow.The claw was staying back away from the pegs on there.That spring holds it up where it should be.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 5/19/2019 @ 9:24 PM *

It seems odd you were getting grinding when you attempted to shift if the claw was not engaging the shift star. I'd think you'd just get full throw of the pedal and no shift.

There's what looks like a second claw with rounded off tips on the shift arm. The spring loaded claw slides over it. Does the second claw do anything to engage the shift star if the spring loaded one remains retracted?

* Last updated by: Rook on 5/20/2019 @ 3:31 PM *

Don't know what the grinding was about.I'm thinking the shaft moved inward slightly at that point and caught the gear that's in there.Hitting the spring holdpeg.It was damaged a wee bit.When I was trying shifting up it musta been rubbing right there.The circlip actually WAS about a half inch up the shaft,and I was able to pull it towards me that much.or 'maybe' possibly the circlip slipped out,the shaft moved inward,and the gear caught the spring and either broke it,or popped it off.Now that's what I'm thinking happened.I mean,they don't just pop off.That circlip I believe is the culprit.

Ya'll might wanna just take a quick look at if that clip is in that groove correctly.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 5/20/2019 @ 6:58 PM *