Agreed. Everyone needs a full bucket of luck and a full bucket of skill on every ride!

"I missed a very straight forward left hand corner at speed while foolishly trying to keep up."...yup...happened to me as well with my FIRST zx14...Ebony Black...07 model(only 1200 miles on her)(think I wasn't totally disappointed in myself?)Lucked out though and only broke a collarbone.It was a right hander...but virtually the same scenario...my real mistake was hitting the rear brake and locking it up,then momentarily releasing it(big mistake;) )...with the attendant highside...Bike was totalled...this was about 40ish mph in a 15mph curve.Same with me...had there been a car coming the other way at just the right moment....you know the rest.

After that..I made it a non negotiable rule...NEVER go koo koo on roads you've never been on.My buddy who I was following...him and his Busa flew through there no problem...I THOUGHT I could make it also....WRONG...not at that time...wasn't really skilled enough to do it yet...panicked...reacted...poorly I might add;)

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/22/2014 @ 6:35 AM *

Wear all of the fucking gear too. All of it.

Guys (and gals although I don't think there are any),

You know, I gotta say, maybe one difference between you guys and me is I don't depend on luck. I don't have good luck. I only have bad luck. So if I depended on my luck, I'd been dead a long time ago. My lucks so terrible, when I play the lottery I consider it winning if I don't have to pay them money.

The thing about luck is, it's 50/50. Statistically, if you flip a coin 10 times it's going to land on both sides 5 times. So if you want to depend on luck, before riding flip a coin 10 times. If it lands 10 times on the side you picked, then go out and set the road on fire cause luck is on your side. If it doesn't, then you're not lucky enough to depend on luck.

Sometimes 'skills' can't save ya.If it's 'time' for a person to crash..for whatever reason...it's time.I'd say...one has to think outside the box with things.There just 'might' be something much grander and beyond anyone's ability to pidgeonhole it...with our finite minds.Personally...I don't believe in luck.Nor do I believe that my personal abilities are gonna see me through to the end without incidents that I don't like.And I also believe there's a reason for everything that happens...everything.In everyone's life.I may not see it....but I believe it.I have to.Otherwise...I wouldn't be writing this...if you only knew...

"If it lands 10 times on the side you picked, then go out and set the road on fire"...ya see...I'd consider that a warning....statistically anyway.Setting the 'road on fire' would be the very LAST thing I'd choose to do.;)And it very well COULD be the last thing I ever did .Three coin tosses...that's all that's allowed...LOL!!!

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/22/2014 @ 6:40 PM *

Gday Vic,
Gotta lot of time for what you write but I reckon you might have missed my point on "luck".

When I crossed the centreline to the opposite side of the road that day I was definitely not depending on luck!
No one would be that crazy...
I was a fool and made the classic mistake even though I had been warned over and over about the very real chance of falling into that trap.
Luck was with me that day.
I probably didn't deserve it and I certainly wasn't relying on it.
It chose me. I can't say why.
And sometimes having it can make all the difference to whether you are able to tell the tale or not.
You can't buy it, you can't make it happen, you cant find logic in it and you definitely can't depend on it.
You just have to be, well, lucky...

But I can tell you that if luck ever decides to hang with me again I will definitely not be turning it away.

* Last updated by: yannih on 9/22/2014 @ 8:44 PM *

one has to think outside the box with things

I ask you to follow these instructions:

Close your eyes, relax, and take three deep breaths slowly inhaling and exhaling. Then read below.
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Have you considered that perhaps it is yourself who is not thinking outside the box?

Luck was with me that day.

No my friend, what was with you that day was the culmination of a series of events that could've not have happened in any other way. Time and existence are funny things, which we don't really understand. We have the ability to remember experiences of time, we can recall events as they occurred in times past. The future is just as known, just not to us. We have no tools to look forward and know what will occur in the future. However, the future is not entirely aloof to us.

One view is each of us can be looked at relationally. Tomorrow, at 10:00 AM you will be somewhere, and I will be somewhere. Whether I'm in a morgue having an autopsy performed or at work typing a new post on this forum, you and I will be somewhere in relation to each other. For the rest of existence every particle of your being will be in some relation to every particle of every other person who exist. In the same manner, 10 billion years ago these same particles had the same relation, to which 10 billion years later resulted in you being here to read this post right now at this moment. It just wasn't known to anyone. That we are not in close proximity is of no consequence. In two points in space time, you and I, and every other being that exist anywhere, will all exist and be at certain different points in space and time.

What occurred the day you crossed the line, since the beginning of time was set in motion. No matter what decisions you made up that point, these were the decisions you would've made and resulted in exactly what was going to take place at that point in time. It could not have been changed, even if you had changed your mind about riding that day. The decision you made was a decision you were going to make the same as 10 seconds beforehand as 10,000,000 years ago. Or to say, 10,000,000 years ago 10,000,000 years later you were going to make the decision to ride your bike and cross a center line. It just wasn't known to you, or anyone else. That exact point in time, you made the decision that you did, and every other person on earth had made decisions and no other person made the decision that resulted in them being at the exactly right place in space-time to intercept your error in motorcycling judgement.

That's what happened. What time you shat in the toilet that morning had more to do with how things occurred than luck.

Mmmmm...
I certainly respect your opinions Vic, but the fact is i'm a very simple man.
I think I'm gonna stick with the "lucky theory' on this one.

Mmmmm...
I certainly respect your opinions Vic, but the fact is i'm a very simple man.
I think I'm gonna stick with the "lucky theory' on this one.

It would seem that way, initially. But I can assure you, mine is the simple man's approach. Luck is much more difficult to understand, in fact, impossible to understand.

DAMN Vic!!! That's like what the guy said when he pulled his arm out of the bulls ass! "That's some deep shit rite tare!" LMAO!!!

Sic

* Last updated by: sickninja on 9/22/2014 @ 8:21 PM *

I would like to add about it being "simple" to understand. It truly IS the best way for YOU to relate no doubt. The real problem with that particular "Theory" is... there is NO way to prove that it's fact. The past IS fact, the future...well it just is. My point is that until we can see the future all we have is theory, which is not fact. There's no way anyone can say your right or wrong and prove it just as with luck, it truly can't be proven, that's why it's simply labeled "Luck". We can prove why something happened in both categories after the fact which in essence, validates BOTH theories.

Sic

The real problem with that particular "Theory" is... there is NO way to prove that it's fact.

But there is a way. It just takes a little thought.

What will you be doing next September 29th at 3:43:24 pm? I don't mean like "I'll be at work", I mean exactly where you will be and exactly what will you be doing at that exact moment in time?

Well...your theory on the universe and chance and things happening are...well....IMO...stretching your thinking in a positive way...yes.I would like to add however...that your statement of 'things have to happen' whether we go one way or the other I don't agree with...not totally.
Whether one chooses to make decisions on his own(so to speak)...or be open to something else...is totally in his own hands.Saying that Yanni's decision to ride or not 'wouldn't have changed the outcome'...is...well....IMO...not completely true.
I will say by his decision to ride that day he was given an opportunity to ride again and learn something for his own knowledge...since he clearly intends to keep riding.ALL OF IT could have been avoided by CHOOSING to NOT ride that day.NO ONE put a gun to his head and forced him.Would he be given another opportunity to gain more knowledge concerning whatever it was he needed to learn?Yes...I do believe that.It goes beyond 'riding a motorcycle'.It's LIFE lessons.Yanni IMO received a 'gift' if I could call it that that day...something bigger than 'crossing into the other lane'.Life isn't about motorcycles.It's about people and their destiny.My statements here probably are earning a big fat "BULLSHIT" from some.That's okay...sa'll good.We ALL get to learn our own lessons...that's the great thing about living.Without interference from things around us.EVERYTHING is given to us to help us...in one way or another.To reach our 'destiny'.EVERYONE gets this opportunity.Without exception.Yanni learned...and lived to share(if he chooses)his experience and his solution.It just may save another rider some day.I do believe as I said...there's more to things than 'the experience'.And that's why I said...SKILLS are ONLY a finite answer for any riding situation that could happen.Skills are great...we need em.But we aren't controlling EVERYTHING.Perhaps you feel you are totally in control of..."life"....if that makes you feel safe and secure within your self...okay.It's your life...You have every right to choose what you want.Call it...."mercy"LOL!!!!

I hope my little deal here will not be misconstrued with 'anything goes'.Physics are REAL.You break those laws...you receive the consequences.Life is just like that...there ARE behaviors that WILL bring consequences...some good...some bad.Some right,some wrong.We don't control other people.Nor does...ahem...GOD.That's what I meant by...'mercy'...and I'll add...compassion and longsuffering in there just to sweeten the deal;)Glad you made it through Yanni...it would(could)have been horrible...I know what you mean my Bro.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/22/2014 @ 8:34 PM *

Exactly!! I don't know, you don't know, no one really know's, so all it would be is a calclulated guess at this point OR we could shake on it and try to make it happen. If something comes up between now and then unforeseen then it won't happen. AFTER that, we can prove it, but before that, we don't know....yet. Or am I mis-understanding what your are saying?

Vic... Makes perfect sense to me.

"What will you be doing next September 29th at 3:43:24 pm? I don't mean like "I'll be at work", I mean exactly where you will be and exactly what will you be doing at that exact moment in time?"...perfect...BRAVO!You're fulfilling a very important "law of physics" so to speak....you're reiterating that..."do not say,'we shall do this,or that' for no man knows what tomorrow will bring...therefore,this is how you OUGHT to pray..."our Father"...you know the rest.Sorry...I just HAD to....;)

"Vic makes perfect sense"...yes..he does doesn't he?

I want to clarify here...I'm NOT trying to bring...'religion' into this discussion.Not even.My thoughts are NOT about 'religion'.They are however about something VERY DIFFERENT than 'religion'...as Forrest Gump said..."that's all I have to say about that"..;)

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/22/2014 @ 8:47 PM *

Right lets put this one to the table! I fucked up! yes fact in 2010 I had an over cambered flat spot bout 2"wide on the rear and said to my riding mate not long before the off it turns great right but is scary going left! half hour later I had to turn hard left and hit that tray top ute in the rear left! but to warn all of you yes you have seen the photos im sure but this was the result of an impact @ 25kmph!!!!Now lets seen If I had not rode that or two more ZX14Rs this next would also not happen! I had my right leg stiffen up as I hit that bend!and that and only that caused my one 27th July just gone! theres my facts! one not listening to three years of warnings!! Hell after breaking my right forearm and left femur a few bros said I will ride a ZX14R again so im not the only person fooling myself till six weeks ago!

I LOVE these kind of conversations! I don't think religion is involved at all! Or maybe I'm missing something? I do carry around a pretty big bucket of dumbass from time to time though! LOL I really get what Vic is saying also, I really do, I'm just saying...being the anal retentive that I am, the only scientific fact is the past. The past as far as we can relate is "Static" because it can't happen again the future can only be viewed as "Dynamic" because we can't scientifically prove everything that will happen September 29th until it has happened. We can only speculate. I'm NOT saying it's not predetermined I'm just saying we can't PROVE that it's predetermined.

Damn bean, yea I've seen those, honestly I'm just really, really glad your ok. Sheesh

Sic

Buddy of mine had this a few weeks ago doin some twisties with us. Started out saying he would ride again but he was at Hallett with us last weekend for a couple of lap days and is already looking forward to getting back on it.

* Last updated by: sickninja on 9/22/2014 @ 9:04 PM *

I think this thread is going....perfectly!Thanks Bean...truly appreciate your thinking and sharing this...the real you.You my friend are a blessing...to me anyway.However...I wouldn't be so hard on yerself about why it happened.I mean...totally blaming yourself.You got schooled my friend...painful...but schooled...as we ALL will...and ALL do.
I think if (I) listen carefully to others concerning wrecking...and try to be mindful of scenarios I'm approaching...I just 'might' survive this thing we call...motorcycling;)It DOES take discipline to stay focused on reality...if ya know what I mean.The Ninja will test you...and what yer about.
I'm just really thankful for you and that your life is still here with us...keep yer chin up!;)

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/22/2014 @ 9:05 PM *

Exactly!! I don't know, you don't know, no one really know's, so all it would be is a calclulated guess at this point OR we could shake on it and try to make it happen. If something comes up between now and then unforeseen then it won't happen. AFTER that, we can prove it, but before that, we don't know....yet. Or am I mis-understanding what your are saying?

Of course neither you or I know precisely what you will be doing at 3:43:24 pm or whatever time I stated. I actually expected you to not know the answer. But, beyond any doubt you will be doing something. Whether it's you being at home sick in bed from food poisoning watching Oprah as she's saying the word "my", or you are at work typing the character "t" in an email, or you are inserting a quarter into a snack machine thinking about which snack to purchase, or whatever else you will be doing something.

It is impossible that you will not be doing something in relation to this very moment from this moment forward to the end of your existence and the end of time. When you are dead and buried, your body will break down (as all of us do, i.e. the law of conservation of matter). The molecules and atoms will break down, recombine, and form other substances. All things that you are made of, existed before being combined to form YOU and will continue to exist afterwards. Or to say, basically at the beginning of time the elements in which you consist of were created. Since you are here, now, the exact elements (definite article, not indefinite) that you are made of had to form what you are at this very moment, because (cause) it did not happen in any other way it (effect) could not have happened in any other way.

Think of this way. You know there is a past. What we call history. You know of the stories of WWII? You know that Allies won and Axis lost. But answer this. What was Winston Churchill doing at exactly 8:49:94.63 on May 18, 1941? I mean, does anyone know? Because no one knows exactly what he was doing, does that mean he did not exist? Does that mean that moment of time never occurred? All we know is Winston Churchill existed and was doing some exact thing on May 18, 1941 at 8:49.94.63. The same holds true for the future, and just like this example, just because we do not know does not mean it is not known. I'm even convinced that the future is just as knowable as the past, we just don't have a way to understand it yet.

There's a couple things that one needs to understand this. One is basic science such as laws of conversation of mass and energy. The other is mathematical relationships. Without understanding these principles, it can be pretty hard to understand what I'm talking about.

I do believe stuff like THIS...and worse really are the reason that cops are so ready to STOP these things from happening.I've had em tell me...more than once..."I don't want to have to come out and scrape you from the road because a deer jumped outta nowhere...slow it down some...okay?"

Kinda off topic....but it came to mind just now.Probably cause I'm still someplace inside not seeing the speeding ticket I got on Saturday as what it really was.I'll simplify...it's a whisper in my ear...'quit pushing things'...;)

"I actually expected you to not know the answer. But, beyond any doubt you will be doing something. Whether it's you being at home sick in bed from food poisoning watching Oprah as she's saying the word "my", or you are at work typing the character "t" in an email, or you are inserting a quarter into a snack machine thinking about which snack to purchase, or whatever else you will be doing something"...

And you somehow...'know this'...right?Let me ask then...by 'doing something'...does that include the state of death?And the possibility of...living in an eternal state...whatever that may be?

Surely you DO see that your thoughts about this are flawed by the assumption that...you KNOW you'll be 'doing something'.That's the crux of what this discussion has been..."IF you guys were more skilled,you wouldn't have wrecked".You don't KNOW that.I don't know that.I could drop dead right here....and all my little ideas that I believed throughout my life to 'keep me safe' would end also.

Skills are just that...learned behaviors.NOT guarantees.Besides,everyone has different 'skills'...whether they have ridden 10 days or ten years.The fallacy of 'seeing' something...say..a big sportbike...generally incite fear on those who've never or barely ever ridden a bike.Nothing could be less true,the fear I mean.The prejudgement.The programmed mindset.Tell me which is safer...a big sportbike,or a bike like a Harley....

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/22/2014 @ 9:29 PM *

I've been told that by Cops many times.