All-

I have been told two stories. One suggested that as soon as the secondary flies are removed so goes your warranty. Since, in my moment of stupidity I elected to buy the extended warranty, one can see my resistance to doing anything that would render it useless.
But I have also heard the contrary, that Kawasaki doesn't care at all if you keep them or pull them, similar to how they do not rescind your warranty based on you having a power commander.

Anyone know for sure??

Thanks-

Red

its simple lol pull the flies, if anything happens put em back in b4 taking the bike to the dealer

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1. Flies do not hamper a warranty claim. If some part on the bike is not related to the flies... Hello?
2. If say you scored a piston, bent a valve, one of the fly screws is still stuck in the throttle body shaft, you never found that tiny part but the engine did and now claim warranty? I don't think so.
3. If say you foul plugs with a PC you called someone to dial in your map? Those plugs are on you, not warranty.
4. WATT aftermarket lays claim to a warranty when nothing to the bike ever happens to it.
5. You can have a pipe on, a PC, the tre, the crap you throw on the bike, has nothing to do with warranty. Warranty is on the workmanship, the electrical, the parts being cracked that were never taken off kind of quality covered under 12 months or 36,000 miles, whichever comes first.
6. Then, there are some emission laws that apply like say a sensor goes out that is not replaceable on the unit like the throttle actuator. If that fails within 50,000 miles, you get a free throttle body = Emissions related where the factory still eats it after warranty.

This bike is so bulletproof, one year a bulletin comes out; check your bolts for a tilt switch. The other warranty claim was for the new ZX-10; was to move a wire harness away from a frame member. Better read that warranty. It says 'do not tamper' and if that means Kawi sill owns the bike for a year or 36K you want something done... Leave it the fuck alone! Wait...

And no, don't tell me you are sick of waiting for the flies are better in than out. ... Sans first 2 years. Too fucking dangerous are those years! Pull them, yes if your timing is anything about timing. Will it catch you sleeping spit you off and break your wrist? You've been warned!

* Last updated by: Hub on 8/8/2011 @ 8:20 PM *

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Red, curious, did you end up pulling the flies, or no? I've read up around here, and it doesn't seem to make enough difference on the 08 and newer to make it worth the effort. I have a new one, and it seems to have tons of bottom end..

My dealer says if a bike comes to them with a bad engine problem, and the flies are out, they will refuse to do warranty work on it. Which they have every right to do. I think if it was clear it had nothing to do with the problem, they'd do it as warranty work anyway.

Like was posted above, put them back in before you send the bike in for repair.

I agree, pulling flies on a 2008 and later ZX14 that isn't going to be raced is a waste of effort.

* Last updated by: privateer on 8/8/2011 @ 9:27 PM *

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You might be tempted to ask the dealership to pull the flies but I wouldn't tell them.

If you have a 08 or later, pulling the flies is not worth the trouble. Really not perceptible without a tune or Auto tune and even then, jus a smoothing of the power delivery at flies 100% open 3.5 K rpm. No big gain in hp just smoother---if the map is adjusted to the flies out. I think a pipe and PC will do it for you and be safe enough that Kaw will hopefully honor your warranty (though I doubt most warranties ever get claimed on). You could ask your dealer about a pipe and PC and impact on warranty. They may insist that you let them install it.

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Thanks all. I still haven't taken the flies out, and likely won't. I continue to fight the pipe and tuning. I have been able to get the bike pretty smooth with the DJ Two Bros Map and a couple tweaks. I still have some issues on decel between 3500 and 4000.
Not sure what I will do with the flies. Hub says to pull them! LOL.

I'll keep you guys posted.

Which Hub told you to pull them. Sometimes he says don't pull them (most actually) and sometimes he says yes, pull them. So obviously there are at least 2 Hubs. LOL.

A couple of guys have pulled flies on a 2008 or later ZX14 in this forum, and at least of few of them have put them back in. The others have said they didn't much at all by pulling them.

It made a difference (negatively) on pre-2008 ZX14 in street manners, they were wimpy below 3,500ish because of late-opening flies. Kawk fixed the ECU in 2008, and has used that version ever since. The flies come open very quickly.

Of course, you could get Guhl to flash your ECU and open the flies at ignition on, and remove the top speed limit while they are at it. But why? Besides, gas consumption would go up markedly.

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Which Hub told you to pull them.

Hub's first gen 14 has a lag at the fly. He said if yesterday's pass of a few cars, a semi, and very little room to pass, the first gen's actuator or stepper motor, takes too long to happen in a passing situation. Therefore, 2 things should happen; either time your passing for the lag time, or pull flies on this early bird that ain't catching shit, let alone have the ability to pass something... Now we are talking, flies in the ointment or in the a box with the other 14 parts.

Hub's second gen 14 has not a lagalicious. This stepper motor is now programmed to follow the throttle in such a way, same road in fact, was the eye opener of the first gen lagger. Yesterday's pass was a light front end. You know when the steering sort of snaps real fast back to center, you moved that front end up in the air somehow? Now it dances with the flies in and that never happens rarely with flies out.

Hub is now wishy-washy on the two gens coming out of each side of the mouth spouting the other to do this, don't do that. That fly in the back was to keep you from doing just that. Hammer that bike and the front is going to do something funny, better have it pointed straight.

Hub now says; Throw the bums out, first gen! Second gen and beyond, you are going to lose how much grunt the bike returned with, you keep the flies in from 2008 on and never look back. The bottom came back... See, it is part fuel, part air flow, part wall licking each other so you slow that flow down, the fuel catches up... So, the old CV carb's (constant velocity) effect has that transferred over to FI. WOTever it does, it did change back to a wheel carrier carrying the mail.

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It hasn't taken many miles to convince me to leave the flies alone on my 2010. The bike has a strong, smooth, linear pull from down low. I've done hotrod cars and bikes all my life, and am finally a believer that the OEM knows something about what they build. Honestly, I'm having problems finding roads where I can use the potential of this bike stock.

Privateer is on the money in terms of whether the warranty would be honored on a major hard-parts engine failure if the flies have been removed. As a rule, if the MFGR has a way out of paying an expensive claim, they will. The dealer has a limited amount of pull, a regional service rep a little more. If either is of a mind to nix it, they're within their rights. I once brought a new 5.0 liter Mustang home from the dealership, and that night, replaced heads, cam, rockers, injectors, intake, throttle body and exhaust. Obviously, I didn't care about the warranty extending to the next day. (And that killed not only the engine warranty, but the rest of the driveline as well) All in your priorities.

I just purchased an extension on my Goodtimes Protection Plan for 3 more years, so it expires in Spring 2015 now.

If something breaks, I want it fixed for free. So I'm not going to change anything enough to give them a chance to call it non-warranty.

I might not even go with an A&A supercharger, even if they comp me as prototype donor. For the reason I'd rather have the coverage and I don't need the horsepower.

Damn bike will already trip any photoradar in the country with just a tiny twist of the wrist. Of course, no photoradar can see my license plate now, but that is beside the point.

Top and side cases loaded down, she pulls up steep mountain roads like they aren't there.

Once I do the Ohlins R/T fork and shock (do not affect warranty) sprung for my weight plus 100 (for the luggage), the handling will go to a whole new level, and other than an electronic cruise control, and better lighting, and crash bars, she's done.

And will serve my needs until I can't ride anymore.

Sorry Kawasaki, I may have purchased every rocketship you introduced over the long decades since 1968 and the H1 / H2, but I'm not buying incremental improvements anymore. To sell me anything, its going to have be totally new and really improve my riding experience.

None of which the rumors about the 2012 ZX14 (mostly wild, false, and not to be believed) do for me.

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I'm in the opposite camp, Priv... I still have a few months left on my factory one year warranty, and am actually looking forward to it expiring. Not wanting to void it has held me back, as far as mods go.

None of which the rumors about the 2012 ZX14 (mostly wild, false, and not to be believed) do for me.

Being that you enjoy having warranty protection, that statement surprises me... I'd think you's jump to have a supercharged bike (I know, unlikely rumor) that was covered by a factory warranty.

Oh, to the OP... Really depends on the issue and the dealer you take it to. If my secondaries were removed, and I had to take the bike in for any sort of engine problem under warranty, I'd reinstall them first... with brand new screws and factory threadlocker.

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Dunno, Dog. As I wrote above, I don't need more horsepower or torque, really.

This is not to say I haven't spent most of my life with my hair on fire, but its not important to me anymore. I want her to handle better, and stop better, and be safer (lights, lights, and lights) and take me from now being able to do 8 hours a day in the saddle to being able to do 10. Which will take an electronic cruise control.

I can already get my license revoked without trying if I act stupid.

But I've been there, done that, had three bikes now that could go over 200 mph, and a couple cars too. Once you've been there, you are either satisfied or want to go faster. There was a time I wanted to go 300 mph, and got partway there, but the cost of doing so quickly dulled the fascination.

I've jumped out of military and civilian jets on oxygen, both HALO and HAHO (high altitude, high opening) and gone deep enough in the ocean that decompress hang times added up for over an hour. Its like going faster and having more horsepower, I've arrived at the point I don't care anymore. Despite the geek in me that salivates at superchargers and stage 3 engine jobs.

So I'll give her new legs, and new wheels, and crash bars and lights, and some more electronics, but none of it will be to go faster, just longer and better.

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I think age and length of time you've been doing this stuff have a lot of bearing on your desire/need to continue. I built two cars in my late 40's that have the best of everything, basicially zero miles, and sit in storage. (I'd sell but nobody's buying toys; not giving them away.) 10 years ago, no one could tell me it wasn't worth spending a disproportionate amount of my income on going fast. Now, I've retired 10 years early, and savor using my money for the newfound freedom. I also have no problem admitting that at a soon to be 58, reflexes and reaction times have slowed. Hopefully, that recognition will still allow me some fun on this rocket, and get me to 68.

I completely understand the addiction, but can now enjoy watching from the sideleines. I'm thoroughly entertained by seeing bad-ass machines at the edge.

Apologies to the OP; we kinda hijacked your thread, huh?

progrocker asked:

Apologies to the OP; we kinda hijacked your thread, huh?

You haven't been around long enough to know .... but we do this all the time.

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Hey Red I have a map that the guy I bought my pipes from sent me if you'd like to give it a try let me know.

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Conneaut-

That would be great. I'm willing to try anything to get this ironed out. I took the P1x out and I am looking for a P1 Tip now. I liked the 1X, but it was pretty quite. Thought I'd give the middle of the road a shot.I'm not sure what what your map would do since I believe the 2007 has a different set up than that of the 2008 and up. I guess it couldn't hurt to try. Does your bike pop on decel @ 3600 RPM??? That has been my trouble spot so far. Can't seem to work that out yet.

Thanks-

Red

Mine did pop on decel until I sent Jeffo $50 now it only pops if I wring it out hard in 1st or 2nd and let off then it will pop once. Jeffo has his shit down well worth $50

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Who is Jeffo, and what did you get for $50?? Sorry, but still new!

By the way...I installed the P1 yesterday. I think that's the one. Just enough of a noise reduction to be noticeable. Although I wish someone would have told me the exits on the P1 and P1x are identical. I could have cut off the internal section of the P1x I already had and saved some money. Oh well, perhaps someone will need it one day.

-Red

* Last updated by: Red14 on 8/28/2011 @ 5:24 AM *

Jeffo your a Bloody Amazing! Your Map Rocks! Fantasticly Amazing Jeffo! From this

RE: I'm now part of the statistic :/
"08/26/10" 7:40 PM

HIP HIP HIPE RA Yes !! Gunna get my big red zed back today finally wo hoo ! YES !!!!!!!!!!!!oh yea excellent yes yes yes!!!!!!!! Now it's off to the dyno yes yes f==in you buewdy yeh

RE: F.A.I.C.S. Tuning Service
07/16/11 12:14 AM

RE: F.A.I.C.S. Tuning Service
07/14/11 10:48 PM

Jeffo ! Cheers Mate You ROCK!
Yesterday my Son & I put Jeffos Custom Map on her,I new straight away she was running better & "Cooler",WOW Jeffo ! You Bloody Ripper! Goody took her out down a Country Back Road he said I only opened her up 3/4 throttle Hell!Shes A Hole New Beast Mate !in third gear I overtook a car @ 3/4 throttle Man O Man she is so responsive, She nearly Ripped my arms off!anyway I passed this car looked in my mirror & the car was out of sight, Wow a Totally Differant Machine Mate the "Pull" from 3500rpm on, he said with Now the Cat gone With Jeffos MAP !The Temp Wow she stayed on 1 Bar ( it's a mild 16c today) To finish off Goody said he would really luv to know how much More RWHP Shes got Now ?

Guess What? Me Too!

Bloody Brilliant Gamble in the end

* Last updated by: bean07 on 7/16/2011 @ 5:45 AM *

* Last updated by: bean07 on 8/28/2011 @ 5:33 AM *

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Bean-

That dyno sheet is after the custom map? I think I am reading it wrong, 164.23 max HP? What pipes and power commander? My tuner got me to 179 with the full Two Bros and a PC5. Does Jeffo tune to specific pipes?

Thanks again all-

Red

Red, Bean told me that dyno # was before his tune/gutted header/slip-ons. He said dyno time down there is just too expensive.

I have a new 14 as well, and it seems you and I are on the same quest. If I might offer a word of advice...don't get in too much of a hurry, and read, read, read. There are at least two other ZX-14 sites, and I've yet to exhaust all the reading I can do here. You will find that a certain number of people tend to dominate the postings on any one site, so to get the best overall/most rounded viewpoints, I've found it important to accumulate as much info as possible from as many sources as I can find. Opinions abound...

In terms of Jeffo's tunes (F.A.I.C.), use the search function here to start. There is one particular thread that is quite long, and you'll have to wade through, well, a lot of crap before you can glean anything that you might deem worthwhile. Lots of opposing views, and some emotions run high. Spoiler: there are a couple of people here who are very unhappy with the results from his tune, and many who are more than pleased with how their bikes runs with his tune. I've read over and over that the best way to communicate with/learn about jeffo's approach is to call him. There is not much info on his site regarding his tunes, and it's common knowledge that he prefers phone communication to email.

Something I have read on another site, but have not really seen discussed here, is that tune files get shared quite a bit. Those who develop them originally are not happy about that, of course, but it also has been implied that even some of those who may be selling "canned" tunes under their own name have copied/modified tunes from other sources. I wouldn't know; just reporting what's been suggested elsewhere. I can certainly see how that could happen. On another site, I've seen members offering to share their files with others. They make the point of their "ownership" of the tune, whether it be custom or canned, as they paid for it. (Until such time that tuners are able to patent/copyright/include security for their tunes, it seems that practice will continue) Some tunes, such as Brocks, cannot be bought "stand alone"; only with the purchase of his bolt-on parts like his pipes.

There are some racers here with proven results, and one who is particularly generous in sharing his experience is slowninja. Look for his thread on his findings as to what works and what doesn't. He offers a kind of "menu" from which you might select; I've decided that a good pipe, 47 mm throttle bodies and a custom tune is worth saving my pennies for, and his thread was very useful to me in that conclusion.

One last thing I'll offer here because your original question is about taking the flies out..It's my understanding that on the 2008+ bikes, the flies are unrestricted in 4th, 5th, and 6th gears. I took a very fast ride yesterday, and believe this to be true; I found the power to be more linear and immediate in those gears at all rpms. Most folks say that they feel that the slight limitations the computer imposes on the flies opening in the lower gears gives a smoother throttle response. I'm not sure I agree. This bike necessitates judicial throttle control on exit of tight corners, for sure, but, I've found the flies opening can be somewhat abrupt/glitchy in those conditions, upsetting my line. I seem to be somewhat alone in that observation so far as what I've read here, so see what you think on your own bike.

Good luck with your new ride..

Red, Bean told me that dyno # was before his tune/gutted header/slip-ons. He said dyno time down there is just too expensive.

Yeh Red14 Fairdinkum mate thats 100% rightMy 2010ZX1400 was Dynoed with twin Leovince Slipons +PCV Last year mate then a few months ago I got my Header pipe Cat gutted then my Son to help me instal Jeffos map to the PCV,then my best mate took her out out for a ride, he was Gobsmaked about the RWHP compared to the pre-Dyno RWHP @164& said Bean ya know how I said when I brought her back from the Dyno mate! yes Goody she got heaps more Hp then when she was Stock ! Yeh now compared to when she was dynoed it she now feels like a Missile compared to a Scooter I cant quote ya what she's putting out now but I can say Hells Bells im really gunna have to behave cause she will definately get me in big trouble with the law she felt orsum compared to my 04 B/B when I bought her new but now she's a completely differant Machine just with minor Mods & Jeffos Fantastic Map

* Last updated by: bean07 on 8/28/2011 @ 7:01 PM *

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I'll go with 'pro' on the glitch out of corners. Flies out correct that. [IF] and that is, 'if that bike fails due to fly removal' = No engine warranty. I have yet to hear a fly related warranty claim like the engine seized or blew a head gasket from ooooohhhh, more power? Don't you mean a faster event of the same throttle apply like can the engine take a rev in neutral like fast with fly? Yeah, so? So, show me fly warranty with some sort of removal and the groupthink keeps perpetuating that lean myth. Day in day out day sure do.

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