There's many threads in which people are stoked over their new map.
I haven't seen a thread with someone raving about how cool Auto Tune is. Maybe because it happens a little at a time there's no epiphany in it? Or maybe its just a mediocre product.
When I called DynoJet support, the guy was kind of defensive and intolerant. I couldn't get answers I wanted.
Who, out there has first hand knowledge and experiencewith Auto Tune? Not "I heard" this or, "I was told" that.

Good one Sharkey!

What I don't really get is if you have a scored/found a great map (that has been custom tuned on someone's '14 on a dyno, you'd assume?), how much better can the autotune do? And can it "fine tune" that great map enough to justify it's price, and the price of the bung, etc?

I dunno the answers, but I have been wondering.

Not "I heard" this or, "I was told" that

Well, me and you agree that there's a lot of that going on around here.

I've already dropped the money on the Atotune module but I haven't got the pipe yet. I have been wondering the same thing as you. If I can get a map that does as well for my new pipe as Fuel Moto's stock pipes map, I'm not sure Auto tune is going to do much better.

If you use race fuel or have other mods that are hard to find a map for, it seems like Autotune would be just the right ticket. It seems like a good thing to at least have the bung installed in case you think you are going use Autotune.

I would ask Farmer because I know he was using Autotune. He would know of one or two other members who also were using it. Dogo was also using Autotune but unfortunately, he didn't get the map finished before his bike blew. It does seem to take some time to log data and learn how to use the thing.

* Last updated by: Rook on 9/14/2009 @ 10:26 PM *

Who, out there has first hand knowledge and experience with Auto Tune? Not "I heard" this or, "I was told" that.

I've already dropped the money on the Atotune module but I haven't got the pipe yet.

...it seems like Autotune would be just the right ticket.

It seems like a good thing to at least have the bung installed in case you think you are going use Autotune.

Classic!

* Last updated by: AussieNinja on 9/15/2009 @ 1:50 AM *

ok, don't have the bung installed and make sure you ceramic coat your header. Hope the map made in Maryland works well for you in Australia.

Do you think it is better to withhold thoughts until the mods are tried and true? IMO, telling people "I think" and "It seems like" is a way of communicating ideas without leading people to believe that you are basing your info on testing. That to me, is pretty valuable compared to saying nothing at all.

HPC has informed me that Autotune is not necessary with their map for the exhaust I plan to purchase. It would be helpful for mapping race fuel or even boost......so they say. No one that I know of has mapped with autotune yet but some of us have to be the forerunners. Maybe, after all is said and done, I will report that Autotune is a waste of money. I don't know that either. What I do know is that it doesn't help much to have hucksters sitting back waiting for an opportunity to crack jokes while at the same time benefiting from the info yielded by experiments of others. If you know something, please say it.

* Last updated by: Rook on 9/15/2009 @ 12:42 PM *

Brock sells his pipes with o2 bungs installed.

All we have is conjecture. I sent Dogo, Farmer and b00fa a PM in hopes that will give us some first hand knowledge on how well Autotune works.

Perhaps they will post here. I told them about the thread.

* Last updated by: Rook on 9/15/2009 @ 1:57 PM *

Auto Tune owners...are you out there? We're still waiting.

Just a little thought while I'm waiting. The Auto Tune is programmed to make certain changes to your map in an attempt for optimum performance. There has to be a target point that some engineer considers optimum performance. Otherwise how could you create the program. If that engineer works for Dyna Jet maybe he could share with us what exactly is optimum performance?
Is it what Fuel Moto, or Brock,
or Ivan strive for? Or is it as mediocre as DynoJet's maps?
Consider the source...what else could it be?

* Last updated by: Sharkey on 9/15/2009 @ 2:52 PM *

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I too was wondering. The one thing that throws me off is the fact that it Auto Tunes to a specific air fuel ratio that the engineers have already pre determined....... Ok how did they do that little trick? Are those #'s based on a wide range of bikes or is it specific to the bike you buy it for? If the Auto tune makes a recomendation for a change based on a Air fuel ratio that is picked by them it may not be a change for the most horsepower or the most efficiencies. Boofa had his bike tuned on a Dyno from a shop with a great reputation. So what happens now when a change is recommended. If he makes the change based on a # in the auto-tune software not from the rear wheel hp shown on the Dyno...... I think you can see where I'm going with this. I would like to see a map compare after all the changes have been made as well as a new Dyno sheet to prove that things have been changed for the better. I do believe this would be a great feature 4 climate changes. I want one. (NewTool) Rook I hope you keep us informed after the install.Cheers.

* Last updated by: Romans on 9/15/2009 @ 4:15 PM *

^^Of course i would. Only problem is that I can see that being a while since A) i have to install the pipe and Auto tune, B) I expect the map I get to be pretty excellent for performance and the change may well be very subtle for general riding, C)I expect Autotune to take, I don't know, a week or two to log enough data to change a map. I wish I had more info for everyone. A few months ago I was wondering all the same things you guys are. It seemed at that time that I felt the Autotune module had enough potential that I went ahead and order it with my PC5 so as to not need to pay for shipping a second time. As it turns out, I could have ordered the Autotune with my pipe but oh well. Might as well try it now that I have it. It at least looks like a fun thing to play around with.

Could this be another flies out on the G2 story?

Actually, I have, sitting on my bench, a PCV, and an AutoTune. I have, at the shop getting a ceramic coating, an '08 headder with a bung and the cat removed. I'm hesitant to install it though. I've got a PCIII and a ceramic coated '06 headder with Muzzy slip ons installed right now. I got a map from Muzzy and the bike is running better than stock. I plan to disable the PAIR system which should stop the backfire. My only complaint would be the slight jerk when rolling on throttle on the way into a turn. I was told, by Gina at Ivan's, that this problem cannot be cured with mapping. That, of course would be a self serving statement. My '08, Gen2 bike has plenty of low end pick up for me. It accelerates nicely so I'm not interested in fly removal.
If it aint broke...don't fix it. I started this thread to find out why I should install the AutoTune.

* Last updated by: Sharkey on 9/15/2009 @ 10:00 PM *

Okay but you mentioned flies and the "jerk" getting on the throttle. If you ask me, that was a characteristic of my 14 before and after the fly removal. I don't think the flies have much to do with it. It was definitely improved after the Fuel Moto map. I got into the habit of never completely letting off on the throttle to avoid the time consuming task of finding the "jerk" spot at the beginning of the cable. Reducing throttle play to minimum did not eliminate the jerk. Personally, I think maintaining some throttle all the way through a curve is good sport riding practice but now that I can totally cut the throttle without the worry of reopening it in a curve, I do that at times. The jerk is much reduced but i feel I need to be still a bit careful.

My opinion is that the jerk can indeed be cured, at least half cured, with mapping. Honestly, I have not heard of any other owners who feel this way. All I heard was throttle control was all dependent on flies being in. Then again, I do not know of one single person who is running the Fuel Moto map on their 14 other than me. Maybe you should try to contact Fuel Moto and pick their brain a little on the jerk issue.

I was told, by Gina at Ivan's, that this problem cannot be cured with mapping.

Every mod messes up the next is square away/square away/head spinning icon/Iconna place my hand over my mouf.

Shark, here's what Dogo had to say about optimum. I don't know where he got these figures from. We ned this guy around here. He had that innovative spirit that would have increased the pool of ZX-14 modding knowledge for all of us. I almost want to donate my 14 to him...but I couldn't.

Dogo from other thread:

Okay-I'm stupid-How would one know what optimum a/f ratio one needed?

Figuring that out is going to be the fun part!
From what I understand, 13:1 a/f will give you the best dyno numbers and 12:8-12:9 a/f will give the best street performance.

I'm sure you've already read this, Sharkie but here's the whole other thread for anyone else. Sounds like Dogo was really onto something. He was tuning for an A-head starting with a Muzzy map, I believe.

http://www.zx14ninjaforums.com/messages.cfm?threadid=7A35F66C-1372-66AE-3B7974F1EE0FA16B

* Last updated by: Rook on 9/15/2009 @ 10:37 PM *

I got a map from Muzzy and the bike is running better than stock.

Sharkey, If this Map has the cell numbers cranked up to PLUS 75 I'll bet your not going to like it. I got one of those from Muzzy and so did a few others. It's worth a check.

Hello everyone sorry I have not been around much lately. So how well does autotune work, i'm really not sure I have not been using it but I think I am going to bring my bike back to the tuner to have him dyno it again with the autotune functioning. When I had it in for the first tune it was not functioning as I forgot to put the terminator plug in. The map that the tuner made for me is performing well but I would like to have the tuner play with the autotune to see what it actually does. I have played with it little bit but really have not noticed a difference in the way my bike performs but that could be becuase I have it set to only modify the settings by 3% either way which could be why I don't see the difference.

* Last updated by: b00fa on 9/16/2009 @ 8:14 AM *

Thanks for letting us know, b00fa. I know so much less about this than you and the others who have used Autotune. What I had expected from the start is that a good map might serve quite well for all around use even if it was tuned more for performance than street. We might have to ride our bikes a lot in extreme weather changes and performance situations to notice much of a need to adjust an already great map.

Rook,
I'm encouraged that you experienced some relief on the jerk problem with mapping. I have my wrist calibrated for not full release on the throttle and don't consider it a big problem. It's certainly not dangerous but it is a pain in the ass. I lived with it in carbuerators for years. It just seems to get accentuated when I have a passenger because I'm very conscious of providing a jerk free ride. My wife says she's never felt it.
The information from DynoJet says "for best compromise of fuel mileage and throttle response set the cruise range (Defined as 5-20% throttle) to 13.7 - 14.0." "For all other ranges 12.8 - 13.4 seems to work best." "DynoJet does not recommend making the bike any leaner than 14.7 in the Target AFR values. Is that ambiguous enough for you?
Hub,
It was the 006a TRE she was trying to sell me. It's supposed to be specific for eliminating the jerk. But it calls for removal of flies and I don't want to remove the flys. The '08 model accelerates great as far as I'm concerned. I'm not a drag racer!
Romans,
So far the map has been the best my bike has run since I got it.
Boofa,
You confirm my thoughts that the Auto Tune process happens so gradually that it is hard to notice the changes. This is why you never hear any raves over how good it works. Apparently though, it doesn't self correct on the fly. You must enter suggested values to make changes. Therefor say you take a ride the weather changes, the altitude changes, you put some new gas in and the bike doesn't feel right. You have to stop, whip out your laptop and make some suggested corrections, and then it's running smooth again?
I'm sorry I'm just kind of playing devil's advocate for fun.
I guess the bottom line is, does your bike perform well and seem to remain in good tune when using AutoTune? Not looking for 20HP gains or 1 second faster off the line or any of that type of performance enhancement. Just smoothness and reliability. And... is there any reason you couls say it is a better, or even equal, system to just having a good map?

Sharkey

* Last updated by: Sharkey on 9/16/2009 @ 11:16 AM *

Hi guys

well, I had a conflicting obligation that came up so I had to cancel my SSpet 10 dyno session, and I am going to be away again for another week and half or so, then I will re-book the dyno time.

the dyno tuner local to me in Calgary, Alberta indiocates he isn't familiar with teh autotuner product, and hasn't done much with a PC V as yet either.......

anyways, my 08 ZX 14 SE has an 08 header/collector with cat removed, bung installed, titanium cermic coated, and broadband O 2 sensor installed, with clean air system plugged, Yosh R77 dual's, PC V and autotuner, presnelt yrunning a map from fuelmototusa preloaded for Yosh R77 duals. I haven't enabled the autotuner yet, as I wanted to dyno the bike first and find where the best power actually is, before setting values in the autotuner.

Subjectively the bikes runs stroner with the gutted collector, Yosh duals, and fuel moto map, but it sure does make a racket compared to stock. My regular passenger is complaining, I got her a better set of earplugs.....

I will report back once I have hasd the bike on the dyno in its present setup, and see how I make out with the local dyno tuner for a custom map. I have already been crystal clear with the dyno operator I will be hands on and politely in his face during the tuning session..

Paul

The '08 model accelerates great as far as I'm concerned. I'm not a drag racer!

Most drag racers seem to like it better flies in too.

You confirm my thoughts that the Auto Tune process happens so gradually that it is hard to notice the changes.

It would not be difficult to save a copy of the base map and try it back to back against the Autotune map once it was completed. You could even have them stored on the same PC. Heck, I'd be sure to save the base map just in case Autotune made it worse!

It would not be difficult to save a copy of the base map and try it back to back against the Autotune map once it was completed

* Last updated by: Sharkey on 9/17/2009 @ 2:56 PM *

Pay for your dyno tune?!! No way, man!

well I am running the fuelmoto custom map in a PC V on my 08 ZX 14 SE...

the ideal, on the same dyno, probably would be:

1. disconnect the PC V and dyno the bike on its stock map;

2. re-connect the PC V and dyno on the fuel moto map with no other changes;

3. ride the bike for a week or three with the autotuner then enabled, and then go back to the dyno after fuel trimming, and re-dyno ( the autotuner came with a custom trimming map from fuelmoto that ranges from around 13.0 to 13.4 AFR, not so sure that will give optimum results);

4. have the trained DynoJet operator custom map for very best torque, flattest power curve, highest power numbers, with dyno AFR sensor hooked up and recording;

compare the four dyno maps, and make some conclusions on the facts....

I enabled the autotuner yesterday in the PC V software, only to discover after diagnostics I have a dud wideband O 2 sensor. I now have another sensor on the way from DynoJet by FedEx, but am going to be away for about a week next week, so will be a while before I can report back, and I need to do some negotiating with the local DynoJet tuner concerning the costs of dyno time......

on the subject of wideband sensors, the one used by DynoJet is a Bosch LSU 4.2 five wire wideband sensor, when I tried to source one locally I found at least four different Bosch part numbers, and they unfortunately come with various different connectors as well. Has anyone figured out a source for the correct wideband sensor other than through DynoJet directly?? Has anyone figured out the correect Bosch part number? They are $99.85 from DynoJet plus shipping, I found Bosch LSU 4.2 5 wire widebands online for prices ranging rom $120 to $55, but various part numbers, and didn't know which one was correct, so just ordered direct from DynoJet.

Paul

Aw, come on Rook...you can afford to pay for my tune...it's almost my birthday!!

No, wait...Laverda is gonna do it for us. Good man Laverda...I hope you don't have to pay for a bad sensor, and I hope you get a good deal on four DynoTunes! Maybe Rook will chip in?
We'll be waiting for some good analytical results.

* Last updated by: Sharkey on 9/18/2009 @ 12:33 PM *

I'm curious to know what your findings will be, laverda. I wouldn't be surprised if the dyno tune came out the winner but I would be a little disappointed if it was a huge dif from Autotune. I'm betting the Fuel Moto map, dyno tune and Autotune would all be very close.